Bitcoin Forum

Hi all!

low energy nuclear reactions have been more rumor than fact for a long time.

This may change now, over the next 1-2 decades.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2014/01/04/doe-mentions-technology-behind-the-home-nuclear-reactor-in-funding-opportunity/

Actually I think it is a nightmare, that will change the world forever. Synthetic rare metals will mean that there is nothing left to protect people from government created fiat inflation. Real estate is only for people that are already relatively rich, and it is also not portable and cannot be hidden from confiscation, which is a real issue in non-democratic countries.  >:(

Jewish real estate was confiscated by the Nazis, escaping with gold was a possibility.  8)

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR CRYPTO? Imagine that in a few years a breakthrough is published and Gold, Platinum et cetera can be mass produced as a by-product of a LENR reaction.

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Albrecht/2014-02-25-Alchemy-2-0-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reactor-Creates-Gold-and-Platinum.html

Trillions of wealth will seek new targets. Real estate will be even more unaffordable than today, governments will abandon any limits and print fiat like mad, knowing that the gold standard will be history.

We will be helpless cows, milked by inflation and rental payments.

Cryptocurrencies however, will benefit from the gigantic stream of money, and the cheap LENR energy.

Expect $ 1000 000 BTC and $ 20 000 LTC, when the LENR shit hits the fan.  :o

Hope you can sleep tonight ....

Cheers
Leo

US isn't on gold standard, so this is not relevant. So what if gold goes down in value.

You don't understand anything. Central banks are afraid of gold, that is why the price is manipulated, if they print too much money gold goes up and people become afraid. It is like an indicator, a canary in the coal mine.

If gold has no value anymore, if no rare elements exist anymore, this will be a game changer because commodity money will be history, forever. The concept of intrinsic value will be gone.

Fiat has got no value, but in the future there will be no other form of real money (gold, silver etc.) with intrinsic value either, so the only alternative to fiat money, is crypto currency. No intrinsic value, but cannot be created from thin air at least.

The numbers just don't add up. Even if LENRs were mass produced, extracting and decontaminating the gold from the cores would run over $4000/troy oz. A very small portion of heavy metal isotopes decay into gold. The vast majority decay into lead.

That refers to the gold transmutation achieved by a fission reactor. Such gold is not stable and decays to lead, like you said.

In 1980, Glenn Seaborg was successful in transmuting minute quantities lead to gold, possibly via bismuth. In 1972, Russian scientists found that the lead shielding of an experimental nuclear reactor near Lake Baikal in
Siberia had unexpectedly turned to gold!

Unfortunately such gold is likely to be radioactive, and would decay back to stable lead, whilst releasing dangerous radiation.

The trouble is that this is possible no longer the case with LENR:

http://de.slideshare.net/lewisglarsen/lattice-energy-llc-lenr-transmutation-networks-can-produce-goldmay-19-2012

Element synthesis will change the world for the better, but not financially, because it destroys the capability to store portable, high density intrinsic value. In other words, commodity based money will only be possible using pointers to value that is stored somewhere else (e.g. land, oil) but not in the money itself (e.g. gold, silver coins).

Thus, commodity based property/money in the LENR world, will always be subject to government seizure and devaluation.

I was actually factoring in your assumptions and giving you the benefit of the doubt. Synthetic gold would STILL not be cost-effective. Look, I'm no gold bug and I'm a permabull on crypto, but this argument is wishful thinking. It's unnecessary anyway. Gold has been subject to seizure at least since FDR did it during the great depression.

Gold has only one stable isotope and as the current understanding of physics goes won't be possible to be created artificially on an economical viable basis. (The amount of energy required to do so prevents it)

Nuclear physics is a pretty mature field, almost like chemistry and it would mean a pretty drastic scientific paradigm shift if physics would be able to describe a process of arbitrary creating elements on a economical viable basis.
This company reeks of a typical investing scam, all complete with hoax(pseudo)science. If they had something they would have gone the way over academia and published a research paper.
Any of you guys remember Steorn?

The treshold of  "economical viability" may change with time.

If you want to hold precious metals for 30+ years: Better buy silver. :)

Not really to that extent. The amount of energy required is so large that no nuclear energy source can even theoretically make economically viable.
And if we either a) discover a new foundation for nuclear physics or b) pull energy in never before seen amounts out of the vacuum the value of precious metals would be the least I would be excited about.

Exactly.  What if in 10 years gold is $5k/oz and this technology begins pumping out gold at a cost of $4k?  The number one reason people buy and hold gold is that it can't be printed and devalued like gov't money.  Once they can "print" gold with these machines, what happens next?  In that case, I agree with the OP that virtual "gold and silver" (BTC and LTC) will be the only thing left that can fill the vacuum left by the loss of confidence in physical precious metals.

Actually, if the value of gold is pegged to the amount of energy required to manufacture it, then energy is money. OMG Nwabudike was right all along!

Gold will always have value, but this sort of thing will eventually remove those who speculate on gold as a monetary vehicle from the markets. It's been a hell of a slow demise, but one way or another, precious metals will be traded for the value of their various material purposes (physical, chemical and electrical properties IOW) at some future date onwards.

This is a nonsense reply, so I wonder if I should waste time trying to figure out how you can state in one breath that fiat has no value, and that gold is "real money" but wait a sec, it's really just an indicator...dude: if gold goes down in price that doesn't mean everything goes down in price. But crazier still is how you accept a crypt currency can have value based on demand, but somehow that same convention just can't apply to fiat currency

Who the fuck will wait 2 decades

OOPS hold on, this is a misunderstanding, LENR reactors output energy and the gold is a byproduct.

So there is no energy required, it's the other way round, that makes it so dangerous. Energy might be dirt cheap, even free, if huge LENR reactors are operated just for the purpose of elemental transfiguration.

Free energy, no precious metals or any rare elements anymore, insanely expensive real estate and rent, and of course astronomic BTC prices  ;)

It will crash the price of gold and other precious metals. As if precious metals are not already under siege from Bitcoin and possibly other crypto-currencies on one side and selling and manipulation by central banks on the other. As for this being a bad thing for average people I am not convinced at all. It is far more easy to move Bitcoin across international borders than gold. So someone escaping from an oppressive / genocidal regime as in the OP's example could easily use Bitcoin instead of gold.

Good for cryptos and the environment. I'll make gold taps for my house.

LENR has so far not been proven to work, in scientifically controlled environments replicated in more than one laboratory.  At the moment we're still at the 'this kind of works, sometimes, but I can't get my colleagues to replicate the experiments and get the same findings'.  We've been here for 25 years now.

We've known how to create gold from mercury for decades.  It requires a particular isotope of mercury, ends up producing radioactive gold, and is much more expensive than just digging gold out of the ground.  Maybe LENR will change that, maybe not. 

LENR promises (for 25 years now) to change the world through cheap, unlimited energy production.  Whether or not it makes gold as well is almost irrelevant.  Certainly it has no impact on bitcoin whatsoever.

This is probably not going to happen. Let me know when a good, scientifically sound, reproducible, peer-reviewed article in a major journal is published that shows LENR working and producing gold on a large scale and cost effectively.

See Elforsk study and report in 2013. TLDR: they sent Sweden's top scientists to a lab controlled by the scientists to run the experiment.

Read the report here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/188229945/Elforsk-English-02-1

its easier to extract gold from oceans or even better from old mine waste than from nuclear reactors...

Another scenario that may be more likely/viable than LENR is mining Gold from asteroids:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/04/planetary-resources-asteroid-mining/

Tungsten will at $2K/oz, gold at $4K+/oz.  Nobody will be producing (assuming the process can produce stable gold, I'm not convinced it can) something at a loss.

So tungsten is a long term buy? But how?

Hehe I am sure the Arabs have some really juicy reserach power directed at this LENR thing and how to hedge against it ...

Wrong, I think. Unless 'we' can actually be productive, we will more likely be landfill. Population reduction/resource conservation will be far more important to TPTB than paltry rents. As technology improves, the masses of the great unwashed will have less and less value to those with the power of extermination.  With automated production of goods and many services, and near unlimited energy available, what possible value do YOU have? If you can't be exploited in some service or production capacity, you are a drain on resources. Look around and watch the world accelerate in that direction. 6 billion superfluous persons: goodbye.  Everyone is familiar with the term 'bubble' these days. Human population: BUBBLE.

Ah you are an optimist; you think human cows (aka goyim) are not needed anymore and thus, will be sacrificed. But I disagree:

Government and rich sickos want to have power over people, not machines. Free energy does not lead to utopia, my friend, as long as people can, and want to, have power over other people. In fact it will make things worse. Governments usually abuse modern technology more efficiently than people can use it to protect themselves from that abuse.

Unless you inherit a house, you will live in a tent - a well heated one, of course.

I am aware of Rossi's eCat and the recent testing.  Do you know that Rossi recently sold his invention for just US$11.5 million?  One of the world's most important inventions sold for relative peanuts.  Doesn't make much sense, unless the device doesn't work and Rossi is grabbing the cash while there's still some confusion over whether it works at all.

The Swedish scientific study of the device was deeply flawed.

http://arxiv.org/vc/arxiv/papers/1306/1306.6364v1.pdf

The team seems to have set up elaborate IR measuring devices and made various assumptions along the way instead of directly measuring the amount of energy produced.  Just because a study was done by Swedish scientists in a lab they controlled doesn't mean the experiment was done well without interference from Rossi:

"A major problem with this test is the many restrictions and conditions that seem to have been imposed by Rossi on the measurement group and their work.  In our opinion, a truly independent test, even of a “black box” device, would mean work in our own laboratory, with our own equipment, with only written instructions (and possibly telephone support) by the “inventor”, with a measurement method of our own choosing etc."

Anyway, this is getting off topic. 

I don't remember Steorn, but I thought the cavitation stuff was kind of interesting (in terms of transmutation of matter and stuff)

I still think that LFTR (liquid fluoride thorium reactors) are the way to go for abundant energy. 

He is not an optimist at all.  He is projecting a m$therf*cking scary future in which most people are sacrificed (or stopped from reproducing?) because their services are no longer needed.  You look at "wanting to have power over people" as a goal in itself, but where lies the utility of that? 

The benefits of enormous populations lie in the use of the collective man power and/or brain power. As machines replace men, and computers replace brains, The meat popsicles have no use; in fact the opposite. Unless some Matrix like development can be implemented   :D   But we are all Cylons anyway, and it will all go around again  ;D

   But I am dragging this off topic, so I will leave my flights of fancy at that.

No I hear you, the scary part is that it sounds like a logical development.  But a lot of variables will change between now and such a distant point in the future, hard to predict these kind of things.  Better just go with the flow and enjoy life as it is without being too pessimistic ;) .

it makes much sence cause it was plain bullshit. i hope the alleged 11.5m $ didnt really happen else someone has got scammed...
its not how fusion works but certainly its not how science works by not letting other scientists examine thoroughly something like that.
furthermore Rossi was know for other minor scam trials many years ago...

P.S. if he had really succeed all he needed to do was patent his shit and upload it on the internet. he would have got much more money only from donatios. actually he could have been one of the best inventors the world had ever seen. he wouldnt even need money these days...instead he chose the classic way of a scammer...

No, the concept of money-value derived from scarcity of these materials will be gone, which just illustrates how silly that concept was in the first place. This would be just one step closer to the abundance society, which is a good thing. Many rare metals have industrial uses which could far outweigh their their silly use as money in terms of total value to the human race.

That assuming this tech is even feasible in the first place.

You might think so.  But in fact, a fair bit of nickel has been turned into copper via low-energy reactions, releasing substantial heat in the process.
The only nucleus that can't be made to react in this way with a net energy surplus is iron.  And that's not new physics.

While the process is not fully understood (there are competing theories, and no adequate experimental evidence allowing us to discriminate one as correct)  it is clearly happening, quite usefully.  Many of the same skeptical things said about LENR today could have been said about superconductivity a few decades ago, if there were a large entrenched big budget physics community which would suffer loss due to usable superconductivity.  In neither case do the skeptical arguments change the experimental evidence.

The main roadblock to propagating LENR engines right now is their tendency to explode from time to time.

I followed it (and Defkalion and others) for awhile but actually lost interest waiting for something concrete to happen shortly after that report came out.  I suppose I haven't missed much if that's still the big go-to event being talked about.

When using "in fact", I expect the debater to link me to a verifiable source where I can look at that 'fact'.

if with lenr you mean "cold fusion" then sorry to dissapoint you
wikipedia says that palladium-catalysed fusion was a fake/error
and myon based reactions dont yield excess energy

Wikipedia is biased against LENR / cold fusion. That's one of the reasons for which I stopped my yearly donations to Wikipedia.

Pd-D (Pons-Fleischmann) has been confirmed about 15 years ago by SPAWAR, and more recently by dozens of experimenters.

Ni-H (Rossi effect) looks promising, but I haven't yet read about successful LENR producing gold.

Even if synthetic gold would be produced en masse by LENR, this would have little to do with cryptocurrencies.

Cite source for 11.5 m please. Also, provide evidence of rossi restrictions. Thanks.

Also see Thor energy, producing thorium fuel for conventional reactors.

See celani experiments on youtube. This was calibrated by national instrument engineers.

There is a large difference here, thorium reactors just face some engineering challenges and operate on proven physics. Everything related to cold fusion and such doesn't.
Yeah I know, the evil scientific establishment keeps all those great inventions down, if telsa only hadn't had his funds frozen by JPM we would have abundant free energy today, yadda yadda....  The thing is inside academia on the universities the cutting edge of science isn't really that constricted as the cranks claim. People don't need special research grants to try out something new. It's actually publishing stuff or doing actual science that's the requirement here.

Bitcoin can go up even without LENR going online and producing gold.

Those who have gold ownership will have to diversify to bitcoin in order to hedge the possibility of gold becoming "printable".

Now, physical gold is a 180.000 tons market and the paper market is multiple times that.

The physical market is worth approximately 7.5 TRILLION USD.

Even if 1% of the physical (let alone the paper market) is hedged with Bitcoins as a precaution to possible scientific advances, we are talking 6 digit BTCs - as the demand of BTCs from that kind of money cannot be met without escalating prices (in a very steep way).

That is not true. Physics is proven by observation,  not by the approval of Robert Park.


Ad-hom the strawman much?  No conspiracy is required to fully explain the facts.  Robert Park simply slandered Pons and Fleischman, thus setting physics back 30 years.  His motivations were transparent and pecuniary.  But now he is no longer the head of the APS.

when you resort to fallacious argument it brings your thesis, among other things, in to question.

Chinese yuan constantly rise, no inflation, yuan have only deflation  :D

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/922/xhq8.jpg (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/xhq8.jpg/)View Screen Capture (http://img594.imageshack.us/i/xhq8.jpg/)

I didn't read anything but I expect the cost of synthesizing gold is greater than extracting it

Correct.  Present technology suggests that future technology might change that sooner than anyone would have thought a few short years ago.  And then there is asteroid mining, which may also change the economics, if done at sufficient scale.

Now THERE is something hard to value on its fundamentals.  Bitcoin is a cakewalk compared to gold.

You mean the residual supply/demand balance after paper is removed.  Since all the paper has to cancel out or rollover, it might not change as much as quickly as you think.   Eventually it would go up because of growing imbalances which could no longer be steered by market ops, but probably not jumpwise absent a catalyst.

Just YUAN, is the best  :D

http://ideashack.org/2013/09/20/isotopically-enriched-metals-as-sustainable-bullion-part-i/ (http://ideashack.org/2013/09/20/isotopically-enriched-metals-as-sustainable-bullion-part-i/)

Well if someone wrote it on wikipedia then it must be true...

LENR is a fake science.

Well said EM.

NASA seems to be in it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYCPOS24pU8

Umm, what is the benefit for separating the isotopes? For heavy water it's quite clear the properties in certain applications are needed, but for silver and copper?

Wasting energy on something for no further benefit is a waste...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

brilliant contribution  :)

yes I was thinking along the same lines. maybe certain isotopes of certain elements will be a store of value? those that are hard to synthesize in LENR factories?

GOLD PRESSED LATINUM HERE WE COME ...  ;D

nooooo how can someone be into BTC and so dumb :-(

good money is only about being rare and hard to create; gold has very little practical purpose and BTC has none

so rare isotopes would be perfect, as long as they are not accessible via LENR synthesis path

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Gold-Pressed_Latinum

It is really unrealistic to think that gold could be synthetically mass produced to a point that would make it profitable to do so. Simply launching a space ship costs millions alone, not including the technology and hardware required to mine on an asteroid and then have return trips back to Earth. Maybe one day within a century we will send people to Mars and we may very well discover significant amounts of precious metals on Mars. I just wouldn't see any financial collapse due to any of these scenarios.

I understand your point.

Yes LENR is uncertain at this point. However: the first electricity was generated with electrostatic generators. Huge machines, tall like a house, generating very small amounts of current. Then someone invented the dynamo and the world changed.  8)

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/vdg1933.jpg

Compare to http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Dynamo-Cantihalter.jpg/220px-Dynamo-Cantihalter.jpg

Today fusion is considered a technology that needs giant machines to produce very little.

We may be at a point before the dynamo is invented, or we may not be, we just don't know.

If energy was to become really cheap just manufacturing fuel and other related tools would make regular mining more affordable...

Cheap energy means cheaper running cost and equipment costs which allows mining cheaper gold...

So there isn't really any point for synthetic stuff...

How many new regular nuclear power plants have been approved in the US since the Three Mile Island (TMI) accident back in the '70s?

If there have been any, there haven't been many.  And why?  Is nuclear power unprofitable?  Is it unsafe?  Does it pollute?  NO to all of these.  So what's the problem?

The media whipped up huge amounts of lasting fear at TMI.  Then they wrongly associated the carbon moderated, poorly designed, poorly shielded reactor at Chernobyl with the much safer water moderated, water cooled reactors that are common in the US.  The result was a confidence meltdown.  Japan's bad plan of putting emergency generators on trucks, leading to the Fukushima disaster didn't soothe either.

No, you can't do ANYTHING nuclear anymore.  It doesn't matter how sound or good.  Fear is the media's bread and butter and nuclear fear has been pure gold for them.

LENR isn't nuclear in the same context that people consider nuclear power plants. LENR is never going to make large amounts of energy; hence the name: Low Energy Nuclear Reactor. People who fear LENR might be afraid of the interactions between the atoms in their own body if somebody said they were "nuclear". People allow themselves to be misled too easily.

LENR has a positive yield in that the heat generated by the reaction between nickel and hydrogen can be converted to a relatively weak current of electricity for a relatively long period of time...

I think LENR has potential for development but you aren't going to be running your house off of a LENR any time soon.

I think there's more energy to be scrounged from our surroundings that can be cheaply captured. Creating energy is expensive, converting wasted radiant energy is cheap.

Lots of energy wasted all around us:

- Wave-particle duality is a Quantum Mechanical property of subatomic particles that will allow a nano chain of benzene rings (or any nano-tubular conductor) to efficiently convert waste heat into electricity. The greater the temperature differential between the ends of the chain; the greater the electrical output.
http://uanews.org/story/turning-waste-heat-power (http://uanews.org/story/turning-waste-heat-power)

- Metamaterials (Quantum Mechanics; just like above only different configurations of different elements) can be configured to harvest a diverse array of different types of waste energy, microwave energy, RF energy, vibrations, UV radiation, Cosmic radiation, ect...
http://www.pratt.duke.edu/news/wireless-device-converts-lost-energy-electric-power (http://www.pratt.duke.edu/news/wireless-device-converts-lost-energy-electric-power)

Just to name a few, there's cheap power all around us and the interesting thing about these discoveries is the simplicity. These nano structures form naturally (think about growing a crystal) when you place an object in contact with a gas containing the elements.

At least I learned something new today.
Hope you can sleep tonight ....
Maybe later this morning  :D

You appeal to logic.  The media does not.

Ask that to the folks who used to live in Fukushima. Yes, nuclear power plants are safe on a relatively small time scale. But when you look at a scale that spans decades, most are not built to withstand regularly occuring natural disasters like earthquakes.

It's regularory issue... Not like there hasn't been massive results in other industries... And compare the deaths per energy produced...

Fukushima and Chernobyl could both have been averted. We just need stronger policies and regulation. My understanding is that in Fukushima the meltdown could have been averted if the proposed fixed would have been done... The systems worked fine during and after the earthquakes. Problem was the design and auxiliary systems that couldn't handle the tsunami... And it was 40 year old plant, I wouldn't compare that to modern new designs.

I remember all the excitement back in 1989 with the cold fusion story which turned out to be a dud. Hopefully LENR reactors won't end up the same way.

Oh wait....turns out LENR is the new name for cold fusion.

 ;)

Chernobyl shouldn't be discussed in league with other nuclear power accidents because it was a coal fire.  That reactor was foolishly designed to use carbon as a moderator instead of water.  Once the reactor melted, the carbon moderator caught fire and burned like high-grade anthracite coal.  The carbon fire did what hot coal fires do--it churned a lot hot smoke into the air, pulling with it lots and lots of of radioactive particulate debris.

Most of those workers who got toasted got it while trying to put the coal fire out. All the citizens that got exposed to radioactive material got it as a result of the coal fire pumping it in the air.  Extremely foolish design.

Fukushima had a comity of errors, the most glaring one, to my way of thinking, was to skimp on emergency generators by putting them on trucks and thinking they could drive them wherever they were needed in an emergency.  Didn't anyone notice that emergencies often come with impassible roads?  If they had had emergency generators, they could have at least kept the reactors cool enough to not meltdown and therefore not release radioactive material.

It's fundamentally the same phenomenon.  Works in Pd and Ni matrices so far.  Detailed mechanisms may differ. however, between the media.  It doesn't much matter if it is politically incorrect in the long run.  Truth will out.  Sadly we've lost 30 years of technology to corruption.

how could a bacteria create gold without fusing? you cannot "create" something out of nothing. when you break it down into plain chemistry/physics gold is nothing more then electrons, neutrons, and protons. So gold can only be gained by fusing lighter elements (like the sun does, or hydrogen bombs) or split heavy elements.

http://fusioned.gat.com/what_is_fusion.html

Fusion of more heavy atoms then hydrogen is even harder to archieve and cold fusion should take a high vacuum (technically not possible till now) or a whole new technology.

yeah that's what I thought but dead wrong, they take pre-orders for 10kW single family home heaters.

http://ecat.com/

Fill out the form for an e-cat home ...  ;D

Or the Swiss page, where it says the pre-orders will start shipping in 2015

http://www.ecatschweiz.com/Prodotti.html

Will they deliver before Butterflylabs?  ;D

Now, if you want to know what the government will do to us goyim with LENR energy, The Hunger Games are a possible approximation.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130720213951/thehungergames/images/thumb/f/f7/Thehovercraft.png/320px-Thehovercraft.png

Have a nice sleep, again.  ;)

You can register interest.  It's not a pre-order:  No funds change hands.

You can actually buy a 1 MW plant now, for industrial use.  At least one has been sold, to the US Navy IIRC.

Fusion of more heavy atoms than hydrogen is easier to achieved. check lithium fusion...


and leopard2 comparing dynamos with electrostatic generators is retarded... there were always tiny electrostatic generators...

 ;D Do you really think that NASA never ever employed brain sick people? LENR is a fake. Fake science can be easily detected by fact that nobody can reproduce same results.

===>



Fake science? ::)

Facts don't matter to True Skeptics.

of all the rare metals, Palladium sticks out since it has appreciated more than others and still is relatively close to 2010-2011 highs - while others, like gold silver or platinum, have dropped a lot since then. This anomaly could be coincidence, or some people knowing more than others ;)

Sooner or later, we are probably going to see compact fusion reactors, asteroid mining, and 3D-printed fusion reactor-powered fully automated starships with golden toilets which themselves are able to print fusion reactor-powered fully automated starships with golden toilets. But no, I don't think this is going to happen soon, and, as others mentioned, not with fission reactors, because those don't produce gold in any significant amounts, and fuel for those reactors is probably more expensive than gold, anyway.

I think its a question of catalytic chemistry.  Better palladium catalysts have allowed palladium to displace platinum in many applications.

The Rossi design is by far the most practical LENR design, most reproducible and productive effect, and uses nickel exclusively.  If LENR dreams were driving palladium prices, the advent of the Rossi design would have crashed palladium prices.  (Nickel is too abundant to care.)  But it did not.

http://www.silverdoctors.com/palladium-jumps-to-11-month-high-of-770oz-on-deficit-concerns/#more-39622

"According to Bloomberg Industries analysts Kenneth Hoffman & Oliver Nugent,“any sanctions imposed by the EU and the U.S. on the export of Russian palladium group metals would create a serious supply shortage that may be difficult for industries to replace.”

This year will show the third consecutive deficit year in global palladium supply, according to a BI survey of analysts. Russia provided 44% of global palladium supply and 13.6% of platinum last year, according to Johnson Matthey."

Bullish on palladium then.  Although I find it difficult to believe that any sort of import/export restrictions on palladium would actually stick.  It's too easily smuggled.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/01/16/cold-fusion-nasa-says-nothing-useful/

See the media spin there? How the heck did they generate a title like "nothing useful" from what the nasa scientist said about the generator of another scientist?

NASA said LENR / cold fusion is a fact, it is repeatable, peer reviewed and needs further research / investigation.

Whether Rossi's e-cat works or not has nothing to do with whether people will find uses of LENR/cold fusion, now, or in the future.

Yeah, I mean, look what's happened to diamonds now that the supply has gone up and there are synthetics everywhere.  You can get that stuff super...  Wait, what are we talking about?

Can you name few another scientists team who reproduced the same e-cat effect not in nasa's or Rossi's team?


There are only few confirmed cold fusion reactions (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon-catalyzed_fusion and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider) but all these reactions are very far from positive efficiency.

Cold fusion is not about Rossi or e-cat. NASA themselves say they repeatedly get LENR effect from other elements (that Rossi doesn't seem to be working with).

Even better! Can you name few another scientists who reproduced any LENR effect? (of course not from nasa)

No one can reproduce Rossi's device except Rossi, because he maintains components as intellectual property and industrial trade secrets.  He does not care about science in my opinion.  He's trying to deliver a product to market.

Here is a smattering of institutional compilations, peer-reviewed journal and conference papers, encyclopedia articles, review articles, &c demonstrating tritium production, anomalous excess heat generation, &c, in palladium and nickel lattices:

US DIA report on cold fusion, 2009
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BarnhartBtechnology.pdf

Bhabha Atomic Research Center report 1500
http://lenr-canr.org/?page_id=463

Papers by US Navy research at China Lake and SPAWARS including numerous journal and conference reviewed papers:
http://lenr-canr.org/?page_id=952

McKubre's (SRI) forward to the Proc 15th Intl Conf on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHcoldfusionb.pdf

Hagelstein's (MIT) paper in the Proc 11th Conf in Condensed Matter Nuclear Science references 130-odd publications:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Hagelsteinnewphysica.pdf

Krivit, Steven B., "Development of Low-Energy Nuclear Reaction Research," Nuclear Energy Encyclopedia, pg. 481-496, Steven B. Krivit, Editor-in-Chief, Jay H. Lehr, Series Editor, John Wiley & Sons, 978-0-470-89439-2 (Aug. 2011)

Storms, Edmund, "Status of Cold Fusion (2010)," Naturwissenschaften, 97:861–881, (2010)

Krivit, Steven. B., "Nuclear Phenomena in Low-Energy Nuclear Reaction Research," Naturwissenschaften. DOI 10.1007/s00114-013-1080-z, (Aug. 15, 2013)

Storms, Edmund, "Efforts to Explain Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions," Naturwissenschaften, DOI 10.1007/s00114-013-1101-y (Oct. 30, 2013)

Krivit, Steven B, "Cold Fusion - Precursor to Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions,"Encyclopedia of Electrochemical Power Sources, Vol. 2, Juergen Garche, Chris Dyer, Patrick Moseley, Zempachi Ogumi, David Rand and Bruno Scrosati, eds, Amsterdam: Elsevier; Dec. 2009. p. 255–270, ISBN 9780444520937 C

Biberian, Jean-Paul and Armamet, Nicolas, "An update on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science (cold fusion)," Annales de la Fondation Louis de Broglie, 33 (1), (2008)

Hubler, Graham K., "Anomalous Effects in Hydrogen-Charged Palladium A Review," Journal of Surface & Coatings Technology, 201 (2007) 85688573 (March 13, 2007)

Srinivasan, Mahadeva, "Observation of Neutrons and Tritium in a Wide Variety of LENR Configurations: BARC Results Revisited," 237th American Chemical Society National Meeting, Salt Lake City, UT (March, 2009)

Srinivasan, M., et al., "Tritium and Excess Heat Generation During Electrolysis of Aqueous Solutions of Alkali Salts With Nickel Cathode," Proceedings of the Third International Conference on Cold Fusion, Nagoya, Japan, Universal Academy Press Inc., Tokyo, Japan, (1992) [Ed: Srinivasan states that he has since withdrawn the excess heat part of the results because he found later that recombination does take place within an open cell, which could account for the excess heat.]

Clarke, Brian W., Oliver, Brian, M., McKubre, Michael, C.H., Tanzella, Francis, Tripodi, Paolo, "Search for 3He and 4He in Arata-Style Palladium Cathodes II: Evidence for Tritium Production," Fusion Science & Technology, 2001. 40: p. 152.

Claytor, Thomas, N, Jackson, D. D. and Tuggle, Dale G., "Tritium Production From a Low Voltage Deuterium Discharge on Palladium and Other Metals," Los Alamos National Laboratory, LAUR#95-2687, August 9, 2002.

Claytor, Thomas N., Schwab, M.J., Thoma, D. J., Teter, D. F. and Tuggle, Dale G., "Tritium Production From Palladium Alloys," Proceedings of the Seventh International Conference on Cold Fusion, Vancouver, Canada, (1998)

lyengar, Padmanabha Krishnagopala, "Cold Fusion Results in BARC Experiments," Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Emerging Nuclear Energy Systems, Karlsruhe, Germany, World Scientific, p. 291-295 (July 3-6, 1989)

Packham, Nigel J. C., Wolf, Kevin L., Wass, J. C. , Kainthla, R. C., Bockris, John O'Mara, "Production of Tritium From D2O Electrolysis at a Palladium Cathode," Journal of Electroanalytical Chemistry, Vol. 289, p. 451, (1989)

Szpak, Stanislaw, Mosier-Boss, Pamela A., Boss, Roger D., and Jerry J. Smith,"On the Behavior of the Pd/D System: Evidence for Tritium Production," Fusion Technology, Vol. 33, p. 38, (1998)

Focardi S., Habel R., and Piantelli F., "Anomalous Heat Production in Ni-H Systems," Nuovo Cimento, Vol. 107A, p. 163-167, (1994)

Franco, Foresta Martin, "Siena scopre l' energia pulita Fusione fredda all' italiana?," Corriere Della Sera,  (Feb. 19, 1994)

Notoya, R. et al., "Tritium Generation and Large Excess Heat Evolution by Electrolysis in Light and Heavy Water-Potassium Carbonate Solutions With Nickel Electrodes," Fusion Technology, Vol. 26, p. 179, (Sept. 1994)
Piantelli WIPO/PCT Application 95/20816 (Source) (Jan. 27 1995)

Piantelli European Patent granted #EP0767962 (Patent Granted June 2, 1999. Now expired, renewal fees unpaid) (Other National Phase) (Jan. 27 1995)

Sankaranarayanan, T.K., Srinivasan, M., Bajpai, M.B., and Gupta, D.S., "Evidence for Tritium Generation in Self-Heated Nickel Wires Subjected to Hydrogen Gas Absorption/Desorption Cycles," Proceedings of Fifth International Conference on Cold Fusion, Monte-Carlo, Monaco: IMRA Europe, Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France, (1995)  

Focardi S., Gabbani V., Habel R., Montalbano V., Piantelli F. and Veronesi S., "Status of Cold Fusion in Italy," Siena Workshop, Siena, 24-25 (March 1995)

Focardi S., Gabbani V., Habel R., Montalbano V., Piantelli F. and Veronesi S., [paper name missing], Atti Accad. Fisiocritici, Serie XV, Tomo XV p.109-115, (1996)

Cerron-Zeballos, E., Crotty, I., Hatzifotiadou, D., Lamas Valverde, J., Williams, M.C.S., and Zibichi, A., "Investigation of Anomalous Heat Production in Ni-H Systems," Nuovo Cimento, Vol. 109A, p. 1645-1654, (1996)

Focardi S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F., and Veronesi, S., "Analisi Superficiale Con Mocrosonda X Delle Barrette Metalliche Utilizzate Per La Produzione Anomala Di Energia Negli Esperimenti Di Siena, Atti Acc. Fisiocritici Siena, Serie 15, Tomo 15, p. 109-115, (1996)

Sankaranarayanan, T.K., Srinivasan, M., Bajpai, M.B.,  and Gupta, D.S., "Investigation of Low-level Tritium Generation in Ni-H2O Electrolytic Cells," Fusion Technology, Vol. 30, p. 349, (1996)

Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F. and Veronesi, S., "On the Ni-H System," Asti Workshop in Hydrogen- /Deuterium-Loaded Metals, (27-30 November 1997)

Focardi S., Gabbani V., Habel R., Montalbano V., Piantelli F. and Veronesi S., [paper name missing], Asti Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen/DeuteriumLoaded Metals, Asti, (27-30 November 1997)

Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F. and Veronesi, S., "Large Excess Heat Production in Ni-H Systems," Nuovo Cimento, Vol. 111A, p. 1233-1242, (1998)

Mengoli, G., Bernardini, M., Manducchi, C., and Zannoni, G., "Anomalous Heat Effects Correlated With Electrochemical Hydriding of Nickel," Il Nuovo Cimento, Vol. 20 D, p. 331-352, (1998)

Battaglia, A., Daddi, L., Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F., Sona, P.G., and nesi, S., "Neutron Emission in Ni-H Systems," Nuovo Cimento, Vol. 112 A p. 921-931, (Sept. 1999)

Campari, E. G., Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F., Porcu, E., Tosti E. and Veronesi, S., "Ni-H Systems," Proceedings of the 8th Conference on Cold Fusion, p. 69-74, (2000)

Focardi, S. and Piantelli, F., "Produzione Di Energia E Reazioni Nucleari In Sistemi Ni-H A 400 C," XIX Congresso Nazionale UIT, 2004 (PPT)

Campari, E., Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F., and Veronesi, S., "Overview of H-Ni Systems: Old Experiments and New Setup," 5th Asti Workshop on Anomalies in Hydrogen- / Deuterium-Loaded Metals, Asti, Italy, (2004)

Campari, E.G., Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F., and Veronesi, F., "Surface Analysis of Hydrogen-Loaded Nickel Alloys," Proceedings of the Eleventh International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, Marseille, France, (2004)

Focardi, S., Gabbani, V., Montalbano, V., Piantelli, F. and Veronesi, S., Focardi, S., et al. "Evidence of Electromagnetic Radiation From Ni-H Systems," Proceedings of the Eleventh International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, Marseille, France, (2004)

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJtallyofcol.pdf

Publications up to 2009.

From page6:

Some papers on neutron & x-ray detection and elemental transmutation:

Iwamura, Yasuhiro, Sakano, Mitsuru, and Itoh, Takehiko, "Elemental Analysis of Pd Complexes: Effects of D2 Gas Permeation," Japanese Journal of Applied Physics A, Vol. 41, p. 4642-4650 (2002)

Higashiyama, Taichi, Sakano, Mitsuru, Miyamaru, Hiroyuki and Takahashi, Akito, "Replication of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Transmutation Experiment By D2 Gas Permeation Through Pd Complex," Proceedings of the Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion, Cambridge, Mass., (2003)

Mo, Da Wei, Cai, Qing Sheng, Wang, Li Min, and Wang, Shou Zhong, "The Evidence of Nuclear Transmutation Phenomena in Pd-H System Using NAA (Neutron Activation Analysis)," Proceedings of the Seventh International Conference on Cold Fusion, Vancouver, Canada, April 19-24, 1998; ENECO, Inc.: Salt Lake City, UT, 1998.

Cirillo, Domenicao, Germano, Roberto, Tontodonato, V., Widom, Allan, Srivastava, Yogendra, Del Giudice, Emilio, and Vitiello, G., “Experimental Evidence of a Neutron Flux Generation in a Plasma Discharge Electrolytic Cell,” Key Engineering Materials 495 pp 104 - 107 (2012)

Cirillo, Domenico, "Slow Neutron Generation by Plasma Excitation in Electrolytic Cell," Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, Vol. 107, ISSN 0003-018x, p. 418-421, (2012)

Mosier-Boss, Pamela A., Szpak, Stanislaw, Gordon, Frank E. and Forsley, Larry P.G., "Characterization of Tracks in CR-39 Detectors Obtained as a Result of Pd/D Co-deposition," European Physical Journal, Applied Physics, 46, 30901, DOI: 10.1051/epjap/2009067, (17 April, 2009)

Lipson, Andrei G., Roussetski, Alexei S., Miley, George H., Castano, Carlos H., "In-Situ Charged Particles and X-Ray Detection in Pd Thin Film-Cathodes During Electrolysis in Li2SO4/H2O," Proceedings of the Ninth International Conference on Cold Fusion, Beijing, China, (2002)

Biberian, Jean-Paul and Armanet, Nicolas, "Excess Heat During Diffusion of Deuterium Through Palladium," Proceedings of The 13th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, Sochi, Russia, (2007)

Cool, thanks! Problem is that I asked for people OTHER than Rossi and people who work with him. Nasa's papers also doesn't count. I checked that most links are from Rossi's team or have "scientific reports" like "if it's true, it would be cool" :-)

What is relationship between lenr and x-ray detection?

And please don't send me more "links to truth" I know how to use google to find even better examples of fake science. I especially like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_field_(pseudoscience) scam. I believe it's highly related :-)

Nuclear reactions generate particles and release energy.  X-Rays are energy.  There are both nuclear and non-nuclear sources of x-rays.  They can sometimes be distinguished.

The references are from a general bibliography of selected interesting papers on the subject.  Some are replications of others' work.  Some are seminal.  Some are low quality.  A large proportion include evidence of nuclear reactions in palladium or nickel.  Being Italian does not mean you are a collaborator of Rossi's.  Being a collaborator of Rossi's does not impugn your scientific work, if you are one.  My Erdös number is 6.  I receive none of Erdös' reputation for it, nor does it make me a better graph theorist.

There is one major international conference, ICCF, every year since ca. 1990.  Perhaps a hundred researchers, mostly condensed matter physicists, attend each year, and they may be a quarter of the academics working on cold fusion, with again that number in industrial and military labs.

Why do I waste time on trolls?  Because the request was a reasonable and useful one.  Perhaps not for the troll, but for others.

Celani has a very low powered fusion machine. Demonstrated at national instruments.

btw, I invented a cold fusion reactor too, like iron man ;-) I showed it to my wife near NASA. It works on THC and psilocybe molecules colliding and even glows green when you put it inside chest ;-)



^And I've just created a scientific publication about it^

ps sorry, cannot give you more details - it's intellectual property and industrial trade secret, you know. But I can upload a video on youtube.

Interesting Thread.  As far as the main topic goes, i don't think LENR will be a major factor in the BTC value, but not because i don't think it has a future.  I think by the time LENR can produce enough to affect the market, the "acceptance growth" phase for BTC will be long over. 

It is my personal theory only, one made by long talks and bong hits, but i think there will be a phase in BTC where banks and government final take the stance of "if you can't beat them, join them"  This won't be a fast jump, but over a period of 5-10 years, btc will become mainstream and it usage, scarity, and value will all increase as a result.

After which there will be strong resistance to a large drop, because so many people will not want to sell at a loss.  There will also be the understanding of increasing scarcity, which as a society we still haven't been able to grasp.  After the reward half two more times, the banks and governemt will see the value scarcity adds to crypto currency and i believe that will be the catalyst to my "acceptance growth" phase.

We're all still stuck in our easter island phase.  We use because it is profitable and easy to produce.  And i feel like rare earth elements, and fake human labour will continue to be easy to produce.  It won't be until it is the need resources, (water, food, shelter) become scare will we finally pay our dues, and hopefully learn our lesson.  Which i think will happen in the 50-75 year range. 

After this point i think crypto will be fully matured and the price will be to the moon.  Hopefully some of my great, great grandkids still have some.

LENR can have a dual effect in the price of BTC (as the ratio between gold quantity and BTC quantity changes):

1) Synthetic gold = more gold
2) Cheap energy = more gold (as the main cost in gold extraction is energy cost)

Even if #1 is expensive or impossible, #2 is a serious possibility for inflating the above ground gold quantities.

Gold and silver inflation have happened in the past when new rich-deposits were discovered but what changed was usually the silver/gold ratio (as these two were the only type of money).

Last but not least (LENR aside) there is also the possibility of new mining techniques, new extraction techniques (extraction from black sand or ores) or new capabilities of mining ground (even underseas) which can also inflate gold quantities.

just that synthetic diamonds are different from natural ones

gold atoms are always the same so there will be no difference between syntetic or natural gold