Bitcoin Forum

POWER COST per KWH : 0.10 $ ( avg American )
POWER COST VARY FROM LOCATION TO LOCATION, let's GO WITH A ASSUMPTIONS, most of the servers are hosted in US & CHINA lets take there AVG

My POWER COSTS Are very very less more like 0.005$ or less, but its consider an opportunity to scale up my margins.

POOL FEE : 1%


Real Price of BTC should be: 12000$
factors -> { cost to miner 1 BTC + time to mine + avg cost of hosting servers + miners profit )


this is for all my holders, be positive, this market will come to ba 8)ck to miners soon, it has always been, we the miners are the one generating coins, we are the one who are going to set the bitcoin price, not some guy who is working on laptop and trading with banks, BITCOIN IS HERE TO KILL THEM ALL NOT JOIN THEM LOL


reason for this market manipulation :
1> shitcoins taking market cap
2> bitcoin early stage
3> newbies & panic sellers
4> miners sold most of the bitcoins on 19k$, so its gonna be while since we all get big payouts.

https://preview.ibb.co/g12w49/Capture.png (https://ibb.co/mmWZrp)
bad guy from iron man (https://movieplotholes.com/iron-man-3)

I find it unbelievable how some people have great difficulty understanding that the world is bigger than the bubble they live in. The cost is this for a certain location, for others it is much smaller. Many times electricity costs are 10% of this value in China.

This is advantage of being a decentralized and universal asset.

There are huge mining farms in the USA that have half that electricity cost.  I personally have a cost of slightly less than 0.10/kwh.  Bitmain certainly doesn't have a cost that high.  You're averaging USA electrical costs and coming up with a number that btc should be valued at?  We are not the only country in the world that is mining crypto. 

All of that aside ... I would never sell my btc at 12k.  The majority of the btc that I hold will not be sold under 50k.  It can either reach those levels or I'll watch it go to zero while I continue to hold.  I don't care if it takes 3-5-7-10 years to get to the point at which I would sell, I will wait or I will watch it go to zero.

another point you are missing is how bitcoin mining really works as in the difficulty and how it changes.
theoretically how much it costs to mine bitcoin should always be as much as its price is. because if it is more profitable then more miners will switch on their ASICs and start mining it (some of them who switched to other altcoins will come back), that increases the difficulty and reduces the profit. if it is less profitable then the reverse of this will happen.
if you look at the hashrate/difficulty charts you can see that the hashing power has been increasing constantly this year showing that there is still a lot of profit to be made in mining bitcoin.

all that has nothing to do with the price though! sometimes speculation may be tangled with mining and guesswork about its profitability but there is no direct connection.

it looks like the miners must be more creative in carrying out their activities
if bitcoin is legal in the USA, it will be more convenient if someone submits a proposal to ask the government for assistance in reducing electricity prices per kWh for BTC miners, maybe 0.05 USD / kWh is suitable
with a reciprocal relationship that is, the miners must be taxed

This is exactly why i mentioned avg in US, i myself pay less then 0.01$ per kWH.

I was talking in general and i knew someone will point cheap Russian electric rates lol ....


Reference
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2427517.0

Yea sell them at 50k, but how eill you oay mining cost ????

I pay nothing for mining, my electric costs are negotiable at very bulk. Anyways the point was to notify all panic sellers that atleast don't sell btc below the mining costs it takes to make the coin

 That's why miners are looking for cheap power and cheap mines. It is business strategy to prevent risk. But I think now the price of BTC is low but just instant. We should continue to work, do not give up. A better future awaits us. ;)

it doesn't really matter how much it costs to mine. like any business, miners can be wrong about their investment and go bankrupt. miners can continue driving difficulty upwards and therefore the cost of mining too, but they make no direct investment into BTC. since they aren't buying BTC, it doesn't drive the price upwards.

at most, miners can withhold whatever coins they can afford to from the market supply. but in the end, they need to cover their overheads. so the price hinges on market demand. miners' costs don't matter---unprofitable miners just get squeezed out of the market. just like losing investors and failing business owners.

. Don't forget they get paid each day, so if they think its fucked up they don't mine, the reason you are still seeing difficulty increase is for the fact that Bitcoin is gaining mining momentum

Well, if you want to make a statement like this, rather try and work out a global average cost of mining. You are a miner, so you should know that the price differ drastically between continents and in some countries the electricity are subsidized. (Chinese miners)

I am taking a wild guess here, by saying that a more realistic global average would be more like $2000 per coin.  ??? So, it is still very profitable for a lot of people to continue mining in a lot of countries.  :P

If we deal with such a logic, it means that the price will be correlated with the increasing difficulty of mining, which means that the rate will increase continuously.
Some areas, such as Iceland, have cheap electricity, low temperatures and government regulations that cost mining less than $ 9,000.
Do not forget that the price is linked to supply and demand and that the quantity offered does not depend on mining only.

I, on the other hand, find unbelieveable, how stubborn are some people to accept the reality, even when it punches them into face.

https://www.globalenergyprices.com/en/electricity-prices/

Cost of electricity in US is rather low. That means, there are only last oasises left for profitable mining at current prices.

I think you're misjudging the cost of mining. Many large miners spend about $ 6000 per bitcoin, in China about $ 5000. If you personally spend $ 12,000 on creating one bitcoin, this does not mean that everyone has such a situation.

I think that this is not an objective assessment. In many countries, the cost of creating one bitcoin is much less (for example, Venezuela-4500$), so no matter how much it costs for you, you need to look at the approximate costs for all miners.

9343$... You should reduce costs of "baking" bitcoins anyway. 9k$ is very high digit.
What purpose of your mining? You can get cheaper bitcoins at exchanges for current price (6.5k$).

no it is because it is profitable to mine bitcoin. and miners coming from all around the world with all kinds of costs including electricity costs as one of them. and it is sometimes gets more efficient to mine bitcoin with new ASICs. so the hashrate can go higher that way too.

The prices of mining Bitcoins depend of your equipment. The price of Bitcoins also depends on your cost to run your business like electric, housing space and spare part and work labor and then how much you need to pay in tax out of your profit.

If we just looks at the electric price then  South Korea comes in as the most expensive country for mining a single coin at $26,170 and Venezuela came in as the cheapest nation at $531. According to this https://www.elitefixtures.com/blog/post/2683/bitcoin-mining-costs-by-country/

Hello,

I don't think it is the good way to think. Cost of mining is really depending of the differents factors taking in count. Electricity costs are not the same in all countries and region. Even in the same country you have different cost of electricity depending of supplier, contract, quantity...

Also the price of BTC is not related to the price of produced it but the actual price that people are ok to spend for it.

Even if it is a great technology with other attracts than price, atually the price is driven by the markets and buyers/sellers.

First of all we should know that the mining cost for one bitcoin varies in different countries.For example,mining cost for one bitcoin is just 1,983 dollars in Kuwait and 2,177 dollars in Belarus.But the cost varies as 13,482 dollars in Belgium and 14,751 dollars in Marshall islands.So it depends upon the geographical location of where we mine.

with all things said and done, it will not matter at all what the real cost of mining bitcoin is. it may be $1 or it may be $100K.
when you are speculating about price you should see what the market thinks. sometimes when speculators start believing in something they eventually also end up acting on it. for example people think because of halving the supply reduces (the world "half" maybe!) so the price should go up! but the reality is that halving has nothing to do with reduction of supply, the supply is continuing to grow. the price rise has always been the product of increasing demand and limit that max supply has. everything else is short term and hype-based.
mining cost has been the same. many speculate cost is about $6k which is one of the many reasons $6k has been a strong buy support.

Mining Bitcoins at home is no longer profitable. Try to mine obscure alt coins instead.  :P

Of course, only dumb people sell below their mining cost. But if they have other source of income then selling anytime does not matter as long as the payment for power consumption does not come from the mine bitcoins. That is for what I thought it is I guess.

There is no business if you do business and make  loses. So if it actually cost $9343 to mine 1 BTC why will somebody sell of at a low price that is prevalent in the market today. The best to do as you pointed out is to hold and wait for the market to reverse and watch it yield the needed profits. The FUD mongers are the major problem we are having in the crypto marketing space as they create the panic by spreading FUD which will caught up with the crypto newbie and make them to panic sell and lose their coins.

when deciding whether to sell or not, mining cost should be the last thing you consider because miners are NOT the ones who decide what bitcoin price should be. if the market decides it should go down then it will go down and if it decides they want to buy at certain price like $5900 then no matter what you do, no matter what the cost,... they will buy at that price.

Well, You can also look at the other side of coin. Maybe "halving" is the bottle neck? Think, if the last halving would not had happened, mining would be at the moment 2 times more profitable. If there were not 2 halvenings, it would be 4 times more profitable, then 8 and so on...

Or You could also think: mining would be as profitable at price level 2 times lower, than now, 4 times lower etc.

Halving: pyramidal scheme. Period.

I think that's pretty much on the lower side, but I have no doubt about larger miners to have way lower generation cost ratios than current price levels.

If you take into consideration that larger miners have much higher block generation frequencies, the cost per minted Bitcoin decreases significantly, even if your electricity rates aren't the cheapest in the industry. In that regard, you can counter electricity rates by having yourself account for a large part of the network, but in Bitcoin's case, it will cost you dozens of millions in gear to obtain that sort of advantage over the rest.

I'm not sure if that's actually the case. Current levels are really pushing home miners to their limits, and it may even have resulted in people to swallow current unprofitability in the hope that the coins they generate increase in value in the next couple of months. What if the price remains below $7000 for the rest of the year? People's patience doesn't last endlessly unless they are hardcore Bitcoin enthusiasts.

Problem is well described by Referee.

What would follow in this scenario: miners would have choice, quit mining or group up into farms. After each halving pressure on mining ROI doubles over night! That means only the most effective few farms could operate profitably. But that again... would not be very decentralized, right?

may be your mining operation is costly, but some people are getting cheaper power and their mining cost is lower than yours, so, you may be unable to sale, but current price is still profitable for some - so, trade and sale will continue.

You fail to understand the power of exponential numbers. ROI of mining BTC is diminishning exponentially.

The cost of mining BTC is always changing!
In fact, the miners are not simply concerned about the current price of Bitcoin.
As long as the miners believe that Bitcoin will still be able to go up in the future, then they will not care about the current losses, but will continue to dig down and sell them after the currency.

Something with nail and head ;)
Supply and demand is what will be making the price.

so, the cryptocurrency gradually begins to enter our lives, and the current price of bitcoin I think is temporary, and over time it will be much higher))

and the fact that he is now down it's just temporary and he soon attains its former peak price))) so now just have to wait the best time)))

Though I don't have much idea about bitcoin mining but if your information is true then Bitcoin miners are mining bitcoin in lose? Bitcoin is under 9K USD from April, then these times miners haven't gotten any profit?

it is correlated. the thing is, a lot of people believe that price follows difficulty---that's totally absurd. nobody gives a shit about mining costs, they only care about the price. difficulty follows price, not the other way around.

in a very bearish scenario, it will just take a while (probably years) for that reality to set in. the relationship between price and difficulty is very inefficient. for now, miners and mining chip producers are obviously still bullish and have the capital to back their operations. they're betting on the long term.

current hashrate is 52exa 7 day average

at 14 th per asic
thats 3714286 asics always running fighting to get blocks and btc

asics get replaced once a year on average. current cost of an asic is $850
so thats $3157143100 a year of equipment= $4805.392846270928 a btc of equipment (/365/24/6/12.5)

3714286 asics at 1.3kwh = 4828571.8kwh always running all the time at the hashrate
which is 64380.95733333333kwh per btc

now looking at where all the main mining farms are and stuff. its actually about 3cents per kwh
(sorry to the guy that linked a world electric price.. but thats consumer retail rate. mining farms get wholesale discount, which is the majority of hashrate.. yea china is 3cents not 8.6cents)
=1931.42872 of electric per btc

so $6736.821566270928 electric and ASIC hardware

i wont go into the math for everyones unique variables of if they bought rigs at X price or electric is at Y

but if anyone is interested in some simple math

ASIC cost X * 0.1087192951645006 * exahashrate (where X is the dollar amount you paid for hardware)
electric Y * 12.38095333333333 * exahashrate (where Y is cent per kwh)
then just X+Y

EG 850 unit and 3 cent electric

lets take the asic 1750 cost of start of year and take january hashrate of 15exa (2853.8540625)
and chinas electric557.142899985
=$3411

im guessing the linked study that was based in january used a 14exa range for its math which would then make china correct at he $3100 range for china in that study (5 january '18 =14exa)

anyway. knowing the low 3cent electric and a low price rig of $850 and the hashrate.. its good to know that the majority of hashrate is on par with the current price..
when farming pools can buy coin cheaper than mine them, they will.
when they can make profit selling coin they will

which is why this week we have seen the prices around the mid $6k range.

as for everyone else that bought rigs at higher prices or have higher electric. they are gonna hold.
thus not want to sell

price follows speculation

but the LOW (value people refuse to sell) follows mining and long term acquisition cost

its why you dont see antpool btc.com and the other farms 4X thier hashrate in december 17 and then 3x down their hashrate in 2018 because the big farms dont sheep follow price
no one can predict the next ATH
but knowing the bottomline mining costs of the majority. and looking at how much of the coins UTXO changed after a certain bottomline price gives a good judgement of the scope of the majority wont sell below.

im still measuring a safe $5800-$6k bottom. due to august data which got tested in the first week of september so still to early to raise what i believe the bottom line is above $6k. but definitely above the high $5k range, though $6.1k seems a healthy low to mark in pencil as a the bottom line. just not permanent marker for me

How to pay for the electrical cost of mining today, if you hold your mined coins for years?  Simple ... Pay for it with other fiat that isn't invested in crypto.

Yeah I think he is fuckered up.  In the past 12 months, I have mined and traded for approx. 3 btc.  Those three btc cost me approx 6k usd in electricity.  The hardware cost me approx. 20k usd.  I plan on holding them for the next several years, if need be.  You do the math.

PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE...
it will be applicable for all the cryptocurrency holder today especially with those who have bitcoins.
aside from helping ourselves by holding we will also be able to somehow help the community in general if we continue to do so.
in order to avoid greater fall on prices we must realize that each of us has a role to play.
but nevertheless it is your coins therefore you can do anything you want to do with it...

yes thats what i said avg in America, i am from india its like 70$ per bitcoin here so i definitely understand the point you are trying to make

yes exactly what i am trying to tell these guys

lol logic of a kid, this is not how business works, let the real people run the mining, we need to pay maintenance, upgrade, all these things require money, which should come from crypto as if we had any other source of income we would not be doing 1000TH/s farms.


https://preview.ibb.co/kpubRp/zw17doei2h211.jpg (https://ibb.co/mMUAmp)

here is what the smart mining farms do

they have a contract with private investors who want bitcoin.
the private investors say 'we want X coin at X price for the next year'.
thy do this because they know if they just bought on the market. the market would jump high for only getting a few hundred btc. but they can buy via miners thousands of btc without impacting the markets.


they pay fiat upfront which purchases the rigs and covers electric for the year.
its been calculated. the difficulty may rise at a predictable rate and other contingencies are put in place

then the mining pool go ahead.
if the price on the market goes down. great the pool doesnt have to mine as much. they just buy it cheaper on the market
and hand the contracted amount of bitcoin to the investor.
(this keeps prices on the market up)

if the price goes up.. the pool continue mining normally and they sell a little(of their own uncontracted coin) and keep it for future
what they do not do is put a crap tonne of rigs onto the network when the price jumps. because they are just shooting their selves in the foot when the price goes back down and they are left with extra miners that are costing them extra.

BTCC learned the hard way. they now only have 1% of network hashrate because they were price followers rather than doing the smart thing of sticking to a long term view.

All of it can come from crypto, but it doesn't have to come from crypto today.

Different electricity cost at different locations bud. The average is a bit too much though. Considering the  electricity price you mentioned the price of bitcoin is definitely lower than it should have been. I guess most of the panic sellers have already sols their BTC and the others would be holding until BTC reaches a higher price. So a bull run is inevitable. Mining bitcoin now won't be a bad deal after all for we know that it has to rise some day.

Is this the cost of electricity alone in mining one bitcoin or did you also considered the cost of hardware?
Last time I checked, To mine 1 bitcoin, You'd need to spend around $6,000. Maybe as others have suggested, It is different from location to location. However I think that if you are a manufacturer, The cost would be much less than $6,000.
Best thing you could do as a miner or anyone who's mining right now is to hodl, If everyone hodles their bitcoins, Price would have no other way than rising.

This is where renewable energy comes into play, solar power springs to mind as the obvious choice but there are large cattle ranches in the states. At some point there will be an ico for a methane powered mining farm, this will bring new meaning for the term shitcoin

There is nothing stopping people who have solar from running their miners off unused solar.

Then the electricity cost approaches 0 (unless you want to add extra solar and batteries just to get a bigger farm.

Then the cost of electricity will be (solar panels + batteries).

Without doing the math, you could probably bring the cost down to 5 cents per kWh.

With future tech, you could bring the cost down a lot as well.


It also costs under $2.71 to $3.57  per watt of power installed. So the startup cost for panels could still be significant but manageable.

With existing solar, you can just use your excess and subsidize your own solar panels (especially if the government doesn't allow you to sell electricity or maybe short-changes you).


One part of the argument that fails is that a lot of miners are hodlers. That is to say they speculate that the price must increase.


Therefore they are not using the current price for profitability but the potential future price they have in mind.

a very well formatted search & explaination but know this.

we are still talking about most of public not everyone can invest in solar panels

It's all about how cheap electricity you have, no one mines with 0.12 kwh/usd price. For big mining companies, who have a lot of mining hardwares and cheap electricity, it worths to mine bitcoin and be leader in network. As you say, if we want bitcoin to be profitable for simple miners, we need at least 12K price, then imagine what will happen after upcoming halving, this is the time when price will skyrocket.

The cost of mining fluctuates because the difficulty can go up and down just like your electricity bill. I have some coins bought at lows not long ago and I'm ready to wait until they go above 10k USD again, but I'm also ready to sell if we start going lower than 6000.

I see that some countries are raising electricity prices to reduce the need for crypto mining. Big men have moved their businesses to cold climates and low electricity prices to cut costs. Reducing this cost will help reduce the gap.

It is why most of the miners live in China. Because as I know, In China, Electricity costs are low enough. In my country, we have a farm to mine bitcoin, though it is not big, but we mine one bitcoin and it cost 5748 USD! Here the electricity bill is also not high. The sad news is our government recently announced Mining is illegal, but we are continuously mining bitcoin until we recover our investment.

By reading your concern, I think Bitcoin price will pump to more than 12K USD to give all miners a profit. Without profits, miners will stop mining bitcoin. So, we can except Bitcoin at 12K USD in this year.

You've written a lot here. I only had enough for 2 pages. I have the main question. What equipment should I buy so that I can mine bitcoins. I know many here expert and I am interested in your experience. What are equipment costs? Help me choose the best equipment for maximum performance. I think to buy a small farm of 3 Asics.

Bitcoin is an asset and not a gamble. Therefore, one needs to be patient when it comes to selling, just take advantage of the bubble and do not sell your bitcoin for only a few dollars.

it is one of the psychological tradings, if you look at the fluctuating price movements, bitcoin also declined because it did not escape the SEC's yesterday's refusal. And the possibility of investors is also waiting for the results of the ETF later next year to see developments.

By looking at the condition of ETFs that provide the positive potential for bitcoin, I believe that next year bitcoin will also experience a positive level.

I am waiting to get the right moment to buy

9343$ to Mine ???

I think your Mining Rig Setup is too old...  :P

That's right, we have to wait for market prices to improve. And embarrassing mining now is a good idea too

Massively inaccurate statement. It costs $9343 to use that amount of energy, but that energy is not used just mining Bitcoin, but also securing the network so that other people can be sure their bitcoins are safe. And didn't you know, Bitcoin miners don't just get paid from newly minted bitcoins, but also from the transaction fees of all the transactions included in the block they mine, thus you would need to deduct those from your cost estimate.

Very good calculation, I think bitcoin mining always be a good way to generate small pieces of bitcoin, so it becomes 1 BTC.

all devices, electricity, and service fees must be a top priority for miners, those who maintain the existence of bitcoin.

but I feel that miners do not 100% regulate the price of bitcoin on the market, whales, trading activity, and investment also control the price of bitcoin.

Yeah, and that "fee" is well visible here: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactionfees.html

If someone says, that, there are many transactioncs, then, no, its a bullshit, the are not: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactions.html

And yes, original statement is not accurate, its too BTC friendly. It ignores costs for suitable mining equipment, now, when blockchain is alredy 200 GB large. I lol, whats gonna happen, if it hits 8 TB for instance.

Increased total chain size has nothing to do with block time. 

well i know, cause i am miner, i am just talking in general

I would be of the same mind.
Its about the long term, and thats 5 years plus.

Its too easy for the op to state mining is costing x amount. There are many many varying costs, miners have different operational costs so their base cost is different to others.

Miners aren't selling their bitcoins, they HODL waiting the market to come back to some level decent enough to cover the mining costs.
People who are actually selling are the weak hands and people finally tired with cryptos. Fair enough let's swipe the market if it can turn to be a good thing. in the end, we ill have true crypto users?.

I saw somewhere that the cost of mining was estimated at around 6000 USD.
You're doing the right thing by not following the sheep and not selling now. Every Bitcoin Winter ends with it being oversold, sold below the cost of mining and below the money people paid to buy it. This is achieved by people reaching the tipping point at which they say "fuck it all, it's dead, I held but now i'm out." In 2015 it was the period when Bitcoin went below 300 USD and in this market it's below 6000 USD. If you held between 10k and 6k you shouldn't sell now, because you'll regret it.  

This mining price does matter too much now as it is always changing. Despite all of these changes and Bitcoin falls, I will not sell it for at least 2-3 years. I have chosen the way of a hodler.

This is the first I'm seeing such news that mining Bitcoin is this expensive and I find it hard to believe because if it were to be true I don't think many people will wishing to become miners.

Hmm... that is interesting. But in case mining gets unprofitable, then a lot many of the miners will quit and the mining hash-power will drop. And this will somewhat neutralize the effect of low prices.

You don’t understand mining. You don’t mine based on today’s ROI. You are mining for a future return.

I started mining bitcoin when they were relatively worthless with very electrically piggy failure prone desktop computer equipment. I believed bitcoin would be valuable someday even if the only thing they were ever used for was dark web purchases.

Mining is a costly enterprise. There are only three reasons to mine, faith in future value, support the ideology, nefarious purposes (attack). Instant ROI isn’t one of them.

Although it is changing, it takes time for the difficulty to adjust. If the miners are forced to operate below profitability for too long they will go bankrupt. Some of them were an the edge at 6000. Now nobody is taking profits and the bills will keep piling.

The cost of power and capital to build mini mines for this purpose is enormous. Investors took a long time to recover their money, and sharks are still trying to push the market down, despite everything. I believe everything will change if this market changes.

but if the price of bitcoin is not recovered like the price you want, how? Isn't it better to have a slight loss than to experience a full loss. In this case, many miners experience losses. They spend 100 $ just for a profit of 1 $ so I know the reason there are still many people btc BTC

why not just shift to mining altcoins? There are a few icos and about to ico projects which are mining based; better returns while btc freaks out