Title: [Proposal] Solution for BWA(Block Withholding Attack) - Proof of Online Post by: qcitycoin on September 27, 2018, 07:42:59 AM Proof Of Online - Solution for BWA(Block Withholding Attack)
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[Application of technology]
[Notoce] We changed the subject of this post because there was a difference in views on 51% attack. Title: Re: [Proposal] Solution for 51% attack - Proof of Online Post by: HeRetiK on September 27, 2018, 08:06:09 AM The title is not only clickbait, but also utterly wrong.
Block withholding attacks and 51% attacks are two entirely different things. 51% attacks by definition always include the majority hashrate, block withholding attacks not necessarily do. Granted, block withholding attacks such as selfish mining are at their most effective with the majority hashrate, but then again every attack on PoW is. In the end once a miner achieves majority hashrate they can attack the network whatever way the like, regardless whether they decide to withhold blocks or not. Apart from attacks on the incentive structure of PoW such as selfish mining, block withholding attacks are usually thwarted by... waiting for confirmations. That is, by using the protocol the way it was meant to be used. That being said:
So the solution to block withholding attacks is.... federated trust. ... *slow clap* Title: Re: [Proposal] Solution for 51% attack - Proof of Online Post by: AGD on September 27, 2018, 11:19:40 AM So much work destroyed with 2 answers. Sorry for your loss of time...
Title: Re: [Proposal] Solution for 51% attack - Proof of Online Post by: yangchigi on September 28, 2018, 03:43:34 AM it's same way too 51% attack and withholding attack.
if attacker can withholding block ,how attach network without 51% hashrate ? if attacker can 51% hashrate , how attack without withholding block ? two word looks like different , but two word same way attack network. The title is not only clickbait, but also utterly wrong. Block withholding attacks and 51% attacks are two entirely different things. 51% attacks by definition always include the majority hashrate, block withholding attacks not necessarily do. Granted, block withholding attacks such as selfish mining are at their most effective with the majority hashrate, but then again every attack on PoW is. In the end once a miner achieves majority hashrate they can attack the network whatever way the like, regardless whether they decide to withhold blocks or not. Apart from attacks on the incentive structure of PoW such as selfish mining, block withholding attacks are usually thwarted by... waiting for confirmations. That is, by using the protocol the way it was meant to be used. That being said:
So the solution to block withholding attacks is.... federated trust. ... *slow clap* Title: Re: [Proposal] Solution for 51% attack - Proof of Online Post by: yangchigi on September 28, 2018, 03:52:25 AM how make checkpoint every n block in blockchain software?
if make checkpoint every n block in reference site , how trust reference site. trust foundation work only insert trust block, it's not reason to turn back to centralized system. So basically solve a problem with another problems (trusting a foundation) :P Automated checkpoint every n blocks (between 144 - 2016 should be good) is simpler and more effective (for 51%+ attack and history manipulation, not selfish mining). Besides by trusting a foundation, there's no point of consensus method or even decentralized system. We might as well turn back to centralized system (e.g. bank). Title: Re: [Proposal] Solution for 51% attack - Proof of Online Post by: HeRetiK on September 28, 2018, 10:07:16 AM it's same way too 51% attack and withholding attack. No. 51% attacks may involve withholding blocks, but they not necessarily do. Withholding blocks is more effective with the majority hashrate, but is not a prequisite for such an attack. if attacker can withholding block ,how attach network without 51% hashrate ? Selfish mining (an economical attack on fellow miners): https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/selfish-mining-a-25-attack-against-the-bitcoin-network-1383578440/ Finney Attack (a double-spend attack): https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/4942/what-is-a-finney-attack if attacker can 51% hashrate , how attack without withholding block ? An attacker that has the majority hashrate does not even need to bother with withholding blocks. They have full control over which transactions make their way onto the blockchain and can ensure that blocks found by their competitors always end up orphaned due to being able to outmine the minority hashrate for as long as they control more than 50% of the hashing power. holding block/selfish mining [...] Can't be used invalidate recent transaction/block [...] The Finney attack mentioned above is a block withholding attack that can be used to invalidate the recent block without running majority hashrate. For the most part it seems to be rather uneconomical though and is easily thwarted by waiting for at least 1 confirmation. |