Bitcoin Forum

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price-manipulated-by-cryptocurrency-trading-bots-wsj/

Trading bots are rampant in the market. Many whales are actually using such bots to execute the trades in behalf of them doing it manually. The good thing about using bots is the absence of its emotions, unlike us we often let our emotions cloud our judgement.

Do you really think that trading bot is capable of manipulating market prices as a whole?

As what I understand about trading bots, humans are still the one who are setting it up and limiting the trade operations to be done daily. Is this really one of the factors that affect the price of bitcoin to go down? Share me your thoughts. Thanks!

the first thing the trading bots do is automation, it is not automatically manipulation when you use a trading bot! you still have to have a lot of money and also you have to go with the flow of the market to be able to push it in a certain direction.
for example if you try to manipulate the price to go either down or up you will lose a lot of money because the market will go against you and crush you under its load.

So what? The Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange also have "High Frequency Trading" bots. Manipulation? They too have market manipulators.

Plus mind the fact that those exchanges are regulated, but they are as "bad" as the unregulated cryptocurrency exchanges.

this is just another drama created by a click-bait news site trying to post something that people "click" and read. and at the end of the article you will be unsatisfied because you always read a bunch of statements that the author is assuming are correct and then makes his conclusion based on them. there is never solid proof or a valid speculation about it. they just make any assumption they want.

I've never had heard of such trading bots, all I know for sure was that the market being manipulated in such a way that secret by boundaries and discretion of the creator of the said trading site.

Or this is another FUD attempt ordered and paid by the WHALE-CUMULATORS.

Bitcoin was already going to $6700 again. The whale-cumulators didn't want that, and they were very excited to disappoint the sheep again. They sold down to $6300, and ordered their lackeys in the news to post any FUD story they can invent.

They will do this repeatedly until the sheep have capitulated. If you read my posts, you know what's coming next. Hahaha.

I don't trust bots. When something AUTO is attached to a thing, its never really trusted. Trade manually, the experience of losing is worth it.


Which proves this ETF and the monitoring of all these crypto exchanges is nothing but bullshit and we still end up as bad what they have come up years and years ago. I guess Satoshi is almost failing into making decentralized currency. I hope the decentralized exchanges still are going to work even with all the regulations implemented.

It would take billions of dollars to manipulate bitcoin's value. This is achievable but who would risk that huge amount of money? Even whales will have second thoughts in manipulating bitcoin's value.

The only thing that I can see that manipulates bitcoin's value is the FUD that's spreading everywhere online about bitcoin. Newcomers to cryptospace are already hesitant to do an investment because of this. We need to support bitcoin all the way by only spreading positive things about the technology and everyone will be happy when bitcoin's value goes to a bull.

it is always easier to blame some entities for things we don't understand. in this case the price of bitcoin and how it has acted so far. of course there is manipulation but it is nowhere near what the articles such as this one portrays it. and usually they use things such as "bots" to scare people.

of course that is always a possibility since we have had many cases of the media doing this FUD spreading to affect the price.
although I don't know how this strategy can be effective at this point. unlike you I don't think price was headed anywhere. we are pretty much stuck in this level and nonsense news, whether positive or negative, can not have any meaningful effects on the price.
based on what I have seen an FUD or the opposite of it a Hype is only effective when it is done with perfect timing. and the timing now is just wrong because the accumulation is happening and everyone else has given up on trying to do anything, they are mostly waiting for the change to come then jump in.

In what way is Bitcoin "failing"? The network is stronger than ever, having more miners, more users, and the market has its verdict, and has made it the most valuable cryprocurrency in the world. Where is it "failing"?

Maybe there are disagreements within the community, but what would you expect from an open source project?

Yeah ...FUD

When somebody was trying to point out in December 2013 that MtGox was using bots to hike the price he was labeled in god knows how many ways.
Then when Mark Frappucino admitted the existence of Willy everybody was like...and so what???

People try to defend obvious manipulation when it works in their interest but immediately scream FUD when it does the opposite.

As for the article, I'm more curious about another fact.
Is there any daytrader out there who is doing trades manually???

The article contains a flawed attempt at demonstrating manipulation.


The net effect of this scenario is 0. It does not cause the price to rise.

Perhaps Virgil's buy order will look like increased demand and increase expectations of a rise in price, but when Virgil removes the order, wouldn't that cancel out the effect? Furthermore, according to the price manipulation idea, when the "hostile" bot's sell order is placed, wouldn't that cause the price to go down, and wouldn't removing the sell order cancel the effect?

Here is a summary of the scenario:

Bot places sell order: price falls
Bot removes sell order: price recovers
Virgil places buy order: price rises
Virgil removes buy order: price recovers

Maybe some people are, just like in the old days when you need to manually check every aspect of news FUD and other criteria regarding for the safety of your own trade does it usd/commodities/gold and so on, maybe there is still left who do not trust using a bot regardless of the smartness of the program encode to the bot.

Many traders want to get advantages over others. They want to be faster than an ordinary person. This also applies to very large market participants. I think in the future it will become more difficult to trade without bots.

Did he admit to the existence of the said bot in MtGox? When?


No, I believe it's already an accepted fact that trading bots are already part of modern day trading. The FUD are just FUD as usual.


I believe there are some who trade only a few "plays" a day.

Seriously???

https://cointelegraph.com/news/mt-gox-trial-update-karpeles-admits-willy-bot-existence



No, this is not what I'm saying and you know I pretty well.
When Goldman Sachs said it was going to look into bitcoin and start BTC related projects almost everybody suddenly forgot how evilz they were a second ago and start ass licking typing them to a degree I was disgusted by.
But when they also said they are pulling out of a project suddenly....FUD!!!! Manipulation! Government!!! CIA! Reptilians!!!!!

Bots are good when the price goes up. If the price goes down ....rise of the machines!!!!

[
Those are not really active traders, I was thinking more of somebody doing 20-30+ trades a day manually. I doubt they are more than a few hundred left...
If you look for 1-2% gain from price fluctuations arbitration and scalping bots won't give you a chance

It's common sense that bitcoin is being manipulated.  This is why most people recommend to just hold and wait, that way you won't get caught in the short term pump and dumps.  Wallstreet has been buying all the cheap bitcoins recently while trying to keep the price low.

Yes seriously. Hahaha.

I stopped following Mark Karpeles' story, and have not come across that update, honestly.



Humans gonna humans.


I was a losing day trader before "buying the dip". Now I know. Hahaha.

it is one thing to analyze a situation and logically make a conclusion with some proof that something is happening like manipulation. but it is another thing to create an article with no proof or logic and make a conclusion nonetheless.
not to mention that Mt Gox case was "fake orders" and this case is "real orders" that the article is trying to argue are pushing the market in a certain direction.

as i said above using a bot is first for automation which is what's wrong with the title that was chosen because it has nothing to do with "trading bots". it should have called it "automatic order placement and removal" :D

trading bots I often find in altcoin trading with low value, but in trading bitcoin bots are only seen passing and disappearing
bot in my opinion in bitcoin trading is only to disrupt humans not for price manipulation

I guess its much easier to use trading bots if someone really wants to manipulate the market. It's just that it will take billions of dollars for them to manipulate bitcoin's value. The good thing right now is that bitcoin remained strong and slowly holding its ground towards the bull trend.

I can't say I am really against them on this one. The amount of bots out there is unlimited but also the number of users and the amount of money changing hands is insane. I think at this point there are times where bots are trading against bots and there are no humans in between them for long periods of time.

I understand trading is big in the world but I doubt all of this volume comes from all human trading, I believe most of it must be coming from bot trading and just a bit of it comes from regular human trading. Anyone with any good trading knowledge just makes a bot for themselves that works the way they like and that's all.

If course bot can be really manipulate the price on the market as we have seen the trend in the last months or so. They can literally take billions in minutes and put in on their favour. As far as bitcoin, yes its strong but I'm sure that bot is running wild as well because it looks like we are just trading sideways but the minute we gain enough for bots to put crazy orders then the price could go down anytime soon.

Well i don't see manipulating in those who use bot's but maybe it is some sort of cheating because instead of manual they are using no emotional traders in which advantageous than us who do it rightfully. Can't we do something to stop this rampant bot using?

Well programmed bots are far more capable of manipulation than people themselves are, and that by orders of magnitude. In most cases it's even less obvious than when manipulation happens manually.

Most institutions use a wide variety of bots each targeting a specific aspect of the market they are working on. Bot manipulation goes way further than simply buying up the price and then dump the price down.

The average user occasionally buying and selling crypto isn't affected this manipulation at all, more so the cowboys thinking that trading is an easy way to profit, but that's what they have to accept when trading crypto.

Don't want to be subject to manipulation? Don't trade.