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I am trying to find the right thread please be patient with me as I am new.
Previously posted in meta. (Locked topic there was told to move here)



 Do you believe the punishment fits the crime YES or NO???

You can argue hat people were hurt because of silk road but he was one man trying to control hundreds of thousands he had rules he could not help other people posted assasinations, he had to stay hidden who could he reach out to if you blame him for that, than blame Bitcoin for being untraceable! He believed in privacy. He stood up for what he believed in.

El chapo is serving 20 years?? Ross LIFE research the case then come back and debate. What the news showed and what happened at trial and was proven at trial is another thing check the facts then I will be willing to discuss or debate my opinion!

Rather than starting a new topic each time about the same thing on various boards  (which is against the rules) you should move this to "off topic".

Silkroad is not really bitcoin nor altcoin discussion.

Move is at the bottom left of the page

https://i.imgur.com/y47WDhR.png

If you want to know about the history of Silk road https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4437773.0


DPR - Ross tried to get several people assassinated.
Paying hitmen $650,000 to kill five people.
https://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/

That doesn't really fall under "he could not help other people posted assasinations".  ::)

His punishment is certainly harsh, especially if we're merely taking into the consideration that he just set up and ran the site (disregarding any other charges that may or may not be true or had been dropped). Ross would have had my sympathy if he truly was just some entrepreneurial libertarian who believed in freedom and the freedom for people to use drugs, but things obviously took a darker turn here. I'm not claiming to know all the facts surrounding this case and I do not know if Ross was 100% solely behind the running of the site, but I don't like how he has conducted himself since his arrest in trying to save his own skin by passing on the blame to whoever else he thinks he can finger. I just watched the first episode of that Railroaded documentary on him that you provided in the op and it seems like a complete puff piece filled with lies just to try get him out of jail. He's trying to blame Karpeles with some very circumstantial evidence, and even claims he was behind the creation of this forum (is Karpeles Satoshi now?). I can understand that there's not a lot of options for Ross when he's in jail for life without the possibility of parole and he's obviously just desperately trying anything he can to shift blame and strengthen his case so there's at least some light at the end of the tunnel for him, but trying to pass the blame on to others who are probably 100% innocent here is disturbing. Ross is making out like he just created the site as a libertarian market and quickly passed it on to somebody else, yet he was caught logged into the site as the administrator at the time of his arrest. What's his excuse for that? He was literally caught red-handed.


If this is true, and it looks to be, then this is when he lost my respect and he should be treated like a power-hungry cartel kingpin. The only way he would be innocent of this if he wasn't in charge of the DPR account at that time, but when you get caught red handed running the site I find his excuses hard to believe.


El Chapo's trial hasn't even started yet. It starts next month unless it gets delayed again. He'll probably get life also, unless he has some genius lawyer. If he does get a lesser sentence than Ross then that will be a joke, but it also depends on what evidence they can actually present at trial.

That is where I originally posted it. I was then told to move it to the Meta section (as I was told to do so via PM)  From there I was told to move it to the Bitcoin Discussion section. So I then asked since I cannot delete it that I should edit it and just post the link or say NEVERMIND  moved. The pharmacist said no it would be ok to lock your topic and move it here. I am and now I am being told to move it back to off topic.... I am trying to do this right....

The assasinations were dropped the fbi had full control of DPR when they were posted. That is quite shady. Whether he did or did not we will never know but how do off alll the time it was around the only assasination attempts where after they had gained access and were already posting as DPR. That is why they weere dropped. So you should not judge his sentencing  Off of  charges that were dropped.

This guy deserves to stay in prison , he created a marketplace for drug dealers and assassins.  You know how many people died because of Ross.

"No Violence No Child PORNOGRAPHY" does that sound like a monster.

At least child porn doesn't result in death.  What Ross did was actually worse.

Charles Manson got life for convincing people to murder, he didn't commit the murder himself but he is still at fault.

As much as I love freedom and privacy, and while possibly the sentence for Ross is probably out of proportion (I believe they went all in with him to scare anyone attempting to do the same, and therefore get them scared and not attempt to do so) I just cannot defend this guy.

Anyone allowing for a market assassination has no ethics, let alone actually hiring some hitmen to kill some people as I believe he attempted or actually did. That is completely fucked up and psychopathic. The more people like these are stopped, the better the world becomes.

Some people lose perspective of what is wrong and right when it comes to freedom and privacy.
If you are going to be anonymous, behave and don't go around threatening people, that's simply how a coward looks like. And certainly don't host a platform to put a price on people's lives.
Sorry but im not signing this one.

Should Phillips Morris get life in prison for manufacturing cigarettes that kill people? I await your hypocrisy.....

How many people did Ross force to use his website? I await your non answer.....

Is Mallinckrodt Pharmaceuticals responsible for opioid deaths? This should be good.....

I know they were dropped from the trial he was sentenced for, but I think the murder charges are still pending (or at least was) somewhere. Do you have evidence that the FBI were in control of Silk Road/DPR when the attempted assassinations took place? If so then that would change things, but the fact that he was still caught red handed logged in as DPR makes me skeptical of these claims.


This is stupid. Firstly, they didn't allow assassinations. It was basically just a drug marketplace. Secondly, people should be free to take whatever drugs they want and the state shouldn't have any say in what you can and can't take. Ross or Silk Road didn't force anyone to take drugs and they did that of their own free will. You had to have made a determined effort to even find the site and it's not like you stumble upon it by accident and even if you did nobody forced you to make a purchase. I would even make the case that Silk Road probably saved more lives in the grand scheme of things because people could buy 'quality' or "safer" drugs from trusted sources rather than buying from unknown street dealers who could be selling you pure poison for all you know. If you think drugs are bad and dealers should be punished then fair enough, that's your opinion, but then so should nightclubs and 7-Eleven for selling alcohol and cigarettes.


lol. Come on now. You're either a fool or a troll if you make such statements like that. How can the rape of a child be worse than someone giving you the option of buying drugs. The only thing that Ross did that would be on the same or similar level of criminality is the attempted murder charges if true.


It was no doubt to make an example of him, but I still find life in prison for setting up a drug marketplace to be very harsh (not taking into consideration the attempted murder charges). Actual drug dealers and drug trafficking gangsters have got much lesser sentences than him.



They didn't allow them on Silk Road. It was basically just drugs. The murder for hire plot was something that he (or whoever was in control of the DPR account at the time) organized behind the scenes.



I would be with you on this. I can only hope that it isn't true, but I'll need to see some evidence that it could or probably was the FBI before I make my mind up.

Look it up they are making a documentary from Ross's own mothers words you can watch the first episode at

freeross.org/railroaded

Episode 2 October 9th!

Look it up the government threw at the murder/murder for hire charge after being sentenced life for being the Creator of Silk Roadmurder is not on his record All Non Violent. And 1ST TIME OFFENSE!!!

I will move it once someone else verifies As I already have twice. Never seen that before lol MOVE TOPIC

He obviously was made an example. They were trying to scare other potential hackers and black market entrepreneurs.
He was guilty of running a drug marketplace, knew this was against the law and did it anyway because it was a great business. We all understand that. He got caught and should do time like people who run drug operations. 15 years would be a high sentence for such a young man with no priors, but he got life instead, like a mass murderer. US justice system is a joke.

Sometimes people do some stupid things without fully considering the consequences.

I've seen the consequences of drug addiction on people I care about and people I have assisted professionally. I have also been the victim of serious crime that was drug induced. It is all very ugly. (I personally have never taken recreational drugs)

It can result in parents having to disown their children because they now steal, lie and abuse (physically and emotionally).

Parents abandoning their own children in favor of drugs.

People who sell drugs are often addicts themselves or motivated by greed. They don't consider the scrounge drugs is on the rest of society.

I personally like the Dutch model of dealing with addicts - where they are considered "sick" rather than criminals. (Unless they offend in some other way)

I've written an extensive article about Silk Road and how it related to Bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4437773.0


Karpeles was deeply involved with this forum. Receiving honorary VIP status for the resources he donated to this forum. Karpeles provided the hosting for Bitcointalk for many years.

He also audited the site after the first hack https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4405796.0
Ironically the first hack resulted in the second hack and the malicious code had not been found.



I think Karpeles was a victim of circumstances. He did mislead investors about the liquidity of the exchange and did some dodgy stuff with bots but he would have been a wealthy man if he hadn't set up the exchange and just held onto his bitcoins.


He bought an insolvent exchange from  Jed McCalib (Ripple founder).
I wrote about MtGox here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4412667.0

He has co-operated with WizSec in the investigation of the missing MtGox funds.

While I believe Karpeles was implicated in a minor role with Silk Road (As client, vendor or laundry) - I do not think he was DPR. (Based on just opinion - not evidence)
Regardless of whether he was or not - he would have likely had some resources at his disposal that allowed him to have some idication as to who DPR was due to the amount of bitcoin going to and from Silk road and ending up on MtGox.


Some people in the FBI suspect that Karpeles was heavily involved so it is not just a desperate accusation.



What concerns me the most about the case is how badly the evidence got compromised. Often referred to as "fruit from the poisoned tree".

Two of the undercover Secret Service agents got convicted for trying to steal Silk Rd funds. Anything those Agents have done or touched now in my view is unreliable evidence. Potentially tampered with for selfish gain.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/08/ex-fed-in-silk-road-case-pleads-guilty-to-new-money-laundering-charges/

Read my first post. I did watch it, but it seems to be a puff piece filled with lies and anything Ross can do to try shift blame. I'm not disputing whether he was charged or not for the murder, but it's still relevant in my opinion, especially to him as a person. Ross could just be the libertarian he set out or claimed to be, or the money, power and anonymity could have corrupted him and turned him into a digital drug lord who thought he was untouchable and will take out his enemies if he thinks they're a threat to him and his business.  I hope for his sake it isn't true but we don't really know either way yet and that's what we need to establish. All I see so far from that documentary is desperate lies based on circumstantial evidence by Ross which doesn't look good for his character, especially if he's trying to pin this on an innocent man. That to me would be despicable.


I agree and I also think the Dutch have a pretty good system. Mere drug use isn't a disease but drug addiction is. Most people can enjoy drugs occasionally and in moderation. Most people can drink or have the occasional cigarette, joint or even harder drugs and wont get addicted. If you're using drugs to self-medicate for whatever physical or mental pain you have then you'll likely quickly find yourself in trouble and addicted and that's when it becomes an issue especially if you start stealing and hurting others to feed your addiction.


True, but he didn't create the forum. Ross was even caught because he first used this forum to promote Silk Road and used contact info and handles that was eventually traced personally back to him. If he hadn't have done that then he might still be a free man. I'm not sure why he's trying to shift blame here because when it's proven that you set up the site and admit to that, and are caught running it at the very end, then that's pretty open and shut. Karpeles  was initially a suspect and his ties may make for some circumstantial evidence but I think he's innocent of being involved with the running of it directly.

2 years life sentences just because he runs a dark website? Well, in as much as the petition might help,  many people might not want to participate because of the fear of being tagged as members and users of the website. And I guess why he was given the two years sentence is because he knew the site was being used for illegal activities but still runs it.

I'm sorry - but you legitimately think that he deserves clemency?  Are you completely informed about the situation?  In my opinion, Ross is not completely innocent.

The first of its type which is why he was nailed to the wall for it. People who came and will come after him will get much lighter sentences for the exact same thing.

I think he was a penis and this reframing of him as some type of freedom fighter is ludicrous. If he really meant it he would've released the code and a how to guide and walked away. I have zero sympathy for him. I do for his sentence though. It's clearly revenge more than justice.

I'd buy the assassination thing if he'd been convicted of it. They didn't even bother pursuing it which says enough.

My feeling is that there's still a huge amount of unknowns surrounding the people behind Silk Road that'll take years to filter out. I believe he's guilty as fuck but there are many more things waiting to be unearthed.

He profited off the game and got greedy, Paid to have people killed.  He's a gangster. You says it was just for running a website, no it wasn't just for that. He facilitated as the creator of this website, the buying and selling of drugs, and black market activities internationally. Thats illegal. He broke laws and he got caught. Yeah i get it, it's cool he started this whole new era of Black market E-commerce, but fuck man, he got caught breaking the LAW. He unlocked pandora's box in some sense. Pros and cons but i'm looking at the aspect of him breaking the law which he did. So that's why they put him in there to rot. Of course now we know the threat of punishment does not deter crime, but when has that stopped the US govt from locking people up and enslaving them.

No!!! But I do believe he deserves a reduced sentence. The man who raped an murdered my Aunt recieved 15 years.... Shits fucked up with the justice system. If ross did murder for hire why did the government drop all accusations and just STOPPED PURSUING IT like someone else mentioned?  He never forced anyone to buy or sell drugs. If they decided to just WALK AWAY he did not go kill their family. In my eyes he was a first time offender /drug dealer and should do a dime at most!

He is guilty of Silk Road and deserves some punishment. But life?? It is unreasonable!

Ah I understand.  Thanks for the clarification.

Haha. You're talking like Breaking the law is something incredible. People, including you, are breaking the law many times each year by jaywalking, driving over the speed limit, not paying tickets and taxes, smoking weed. In most countries you don't even spend a day in jail for doing it.
He broke the law, that's a fact, but I can't imagine someone getting a life sentence in any European country for creating a website. It's restricted only to most dangerous, hardened criminals. Even murderers get between 15 and 25 years in prison.

It was more, far more, than just a website.

And the chances are that if he'd been another nationality he would've wound up being extradited to the US anyway.

Anyone who runs a dark market now will get a few years. Anyone who was the first to do it would've been in bottomlessly deep shit no matter where they are.

I don't think "creating a website" adequately describes the situation at hand, in my opinion.

You ending sentences says it all! He runs a dark net website which is against the law, so he deserves and should serve his punishment!

His case is not different from that of another dark web site "Alpha...something " (I can't really remember the full name). I read in the news that the owner was caught who took his own life in the  prison.  He would have probably said that he just open the site and never sold anything and defend his right. No! he took his own life because he knew the implications of what he has down. 

If the court truly found him guilty, no amount of petition can save him, he should serve his punishment.

Dark web markets are one of the biggest reasons why Bitcoin came on the black list of many. Some people still think if Bitcoin is used for illegal goods and services it's illegal itself.
Also some think in a wrong way that tsking down illegal dark web narkets and putting their creators and runners into jail it's an action against Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. But that isn't so and to my opinion someone who runs places where you can buy drugs, weapons, child pornography and similar deserves to be punished and that will not harm Bitcoin, just the opposite.

It's very clear that they were trying to get him in prison ASAP in order to make an example of him, and so they fixed the whole process. I think that he will probably get released eventually due to the mountain of process violations and the fact that he was only convicted of non-violent crimes. Maybe in the end he'll end up spending less time in prison than if he'd taken the plea bargain.

As an anarcho-capitalist, I believe that there was nothing unethical about the Silk Road. That said, I think that the whole freedom-fighter angle is a bit of a stretch. If I wanted to be an anti-government activist by means of a darknet site, I'd:
1) Recognize that current anonymity tech is extremely weak, and maintain a constant samurai mindset of "I'm already dead / in prison".
2) Not make any money from the site. This would allow the site to be more effective, it'd make detection much more difficult, and it'd be a bit of a defense in court.

If you do drug transactions, intentional tax evasion, etc., then I feel like you're mainly just trying to make money, and the idea that it's not unethical (which I agree with) and is a form of civil disobedience is just something that you use to deceive yourself into thinking that it's a good idea when in reality it's just an extremely stupid way of trying to make money. If you want to fight for freedom, pick a better hill to die upon IMO.

---

On the murder-for-hire accusation, it's important to remember that he was never convicted of that, and AFAIK nothing like that was a part of the Silk Road site. Though I have some non-public info which makes me slightly more inclined to believe the accusation, and if it's true, then that's completely unethical, of course. (Not worth 2 life sentences, though.)

BTW, has anyone read Curtis Green's book about this?

---

It's weird how they're trying to point fingers at Mark Karpeles. I really doubt that he had any involvement.

OP. Do you have any proof of your claim, that the 2 convicted agents had access on Ross U. computer and have been tampering evidence on it?

He could have fought extradition. If I was going to run something like a darknet site I'd do it from a country that doesn't have an extradition process with the States at least.


Silk Road and darknet markets also had a huge part to play in the growth and usage of bitcoin. In fact, I first heard about Bitcoin due to the media coverage of Silk Road.


No, but I'd like to. I'm not sure if it's available online yet. The website he gave on a podcast he was on recently isn't online yet and the ebook link on Amazon is dead:

https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Road-Takedown-Curtis-Green-ebook/dp/B07GFJ23RN

And the physical copy is sold out or not available: https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Road-Takedown-Curtis-Green/dp/1726077470/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538736407&sr=8-1&keywords=Silk+Road+Takedown

He did mention he's recording the audiobook version so I'll probably just grab that from Audible when it becomes available: https://twitter.com/ilovepoker/status/1043364624039440391

Very true, it was pretty obvious that he was to be made an example for anyone trying to copy him.
We all saw how that turned out  ::) They basically cut off the hydra's head and several others came in its place...

The sentencing is just ridiculous imo, even if it was true that he tried to have people killed.
Sure, attempted murder should land you in prison for a couple of years at minimum, but a life sentence is too much even for those serious accusations.
Just my two cents though... I'm sure that people will disagree.

the Murder for higher being dropped should be enough proof. If the government is going to lock someone up for Life they have to be guilty buy unreasonably doubt. they based the guilty verdict and conviction off of pending charges (the murder for hire) off of a crime that was later dropped. that alone should be truth

This is true. One of the many reasons courts exist is to avoid mob rule. Petitions can't overturn court decisions. They can probably prompt a review, but I don't think that's very likely in this case (in the near future anyway).

My personal opinion is that he tried to make money off of illegal shit, so he should deal with the consequences. That being said, the consequences seem to be overkill in this case. It should definitely get another look.

It was dropped, because there was no evidence that the actual murders took place and not because the corrupt cops were tampering something on Ross U's computer. Ross still intended to kill 6 people to protect his 'drug empire', which has been clear from the chatlogs, which were obv. not tampered.

The murder for hire charges aren't relevant to the time he got because he wasn't charged for them at his trial, but I don't get why attempting to hire someone to have someone killed is less serious than actual attempted murder. The outcome would have still been the same with a life being lost and that person being responsible for that.


This isn't proof. Lots of times charges get dropped for a multitude of reasons even if they know the person is guilty of them (or highly likely to be). A lot of plea deals often involve more serious charges being dropped in exchange for a guilty plea on lesser charges. The state doesn't care as long as they get you locked up with as less fuss as possible.


Says who? They convicted him of money laundering and running a darknet market amongst other things. It's running the darknet market that got him life, as harsh as that may be.


I don't think it was dropped because of that. Attempting to have someone killed regardless of it happening is still a serious crime. It was probably dropped because they didn't need it to send him down and the murder for hires did include the corrupt agents (from what I remember) so it could have even been entrapment, but they probably wanted to leave the corruption of the agents out of the trial if they could for obvious reasons.

I can agree with that, they did not need it to send him away. I also agree with them leaving out the corrupt agents for obviouse reasons.

So my question to you would be do you believe 2 life sentences + 40 years was a reasonable punishment? I won't judge either way I am just curious as to if you agree with it yes or no?

No. I don't believe anyone should be locked up for life other than murderers, and especially not for merely running a dark net market (and if that's all we're arguing about here). I think there's a double standard in that he got a harsher punishment than some of the actual drug dealers and traffickers who used the site. I don't really think there's anything morally wrong with drug dealing, as long as you are A) Not forcing anyone to do drugs or are pushing harder drugs on someone, and B) don't commit acts of violence due to your business, but obviously the government doesn't agree with that and their punishments are harsh for it and everyone knows that and unless the laws change then the harsh punishments won't either. I guess there's been some progress in the States with the legalisation or decriminalisation of cannabis, so maybe that will lead to relaxed laws on other 'lighter' drugs but only time will tell. The war on drugs is an obviously failure so they probably should just give up and let people buy drugs from darknet markets but that's probably too scary a thought for the average person or politician, but regardless of what they do people are always going to be buying and selling drugs regardless of the punishments or consequences and the sooner they accept that the better in my opinion.

I've always found it completely ridiculous that in the American justice system you can get additional time above the maximum per criminal act. When they recite the verdict they always say 1 count of this 2 counts of that and so on. I've participated in a number of cases at EU courts and here if you deal drugs and the sentence is for instance 2-10 years, you can't get anything above that. In the US that sentence can be multiplied if they are able to make an "extreme dealer" out of you and break your actions into multiple offences As a result they can get you to serve 50 years in prison if they choose to for an offence that in other countries would put you away for 10.

Also, their sentences higher than life are laughable. How can a sane person give a verdict of 2 life sentences and 40 years? After the mere 40 years in the shitholes that US prisons are Ross will be dead anyway.

Theymos posted this earlier:


The thread is locked so you can discuss this info in here, but is further evidence that misinformation is being spread by the 'Railroaded' series.


Well it is silly, but what actually is a life sentence in the US? A life sentence in the UK is usually 30 years I believe, and not actually until you die. Sometimes you can get out in half of that time depending on the parole setting but many life sentences carry a 'minimum' term of 15 years and you can get out after that due to good behaviour or whatever.

'Life' in the UK has only meant life in less than 100 or so cases. You'd have to be Satan personified to get it.

In the US life without parole means exactly that which is what he got. They seem awful keen to dole those sentences out too. Contrast that with Norway where it's not possible to serve more than 21 years. They'll probably have to come up with some interesting ideas to deal with that charming Breivik character.

Third episode is out now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDme9kRtdwQ

In this episode they use the fact that someone logged into DPRs account after he was arrested as proof that there's more than one DPR. Couldn't or wouldn't that have been any of the feds who have access to the account?

In next weeks episode: "How many DPRs were there?" That should be interesting. I'm hoping I don't get accused  :D. Are you worried, theymos?  ;D


Prison is a business in the States, so it pays to keep people locked up, but that's one of the things that is fundamentally wrong with the prison system. There's no way in hell anyone should be allowed to make money from people being incarcerated because obviously that's just going to lead to corruption.