Bitcoin Forum

I'm talking about the free roll game.
Their system is provably fair, of course, but who's so stupid to save and check all the hash of every free roll? Me
My day job allow me to work on a computer so i'm able to roll about 14 - 15 times a day.
However, over the last months i managed to collect about 3000 free rolls, thanks to a script i managed to save every server seed hash, client seed and nonce right before and right after every roll, so i could check them later.

Most of them are fine, but 2 times happened that, after the roll, server seed hash was REPLACED with a new one, while nonce and client seed where still the same. This completely break their fairness, since replacing the server seed hash means that they are replacing the server seed and therefore they are changing our rolled number. ::)

Server seed hash never change unless you roll. you can reload the page, logout and login and it would be still the same.
I'm fully aware of freebitco.in's thread where people post their big wins.
Since the highest number i got was 9993 and since i never deposited any satoshi, my guess is that they apply this cheat just for the first 3 prizes (so from number 9994 to 10000) only to people who have never deposited anything.
I say so also because probability to win one of the first 3 prizes is roughly 6 on 10000, so 2 on 3333 on average and this cheat happened 2 times over 3000, quite similiar to their big win probability.

If freebitco.in want to follow this behavior to discourage people like me who just play free rolls and never deposit, that's totally fine but they should atleast be honest with their users and it should be written somewhere

You posting a lot of claims but not enough proof.

"they did this they did that"

Its your word against theirs right now, and tbh I trust them more since they are in business so long.

Without any actual prove, you just sound like the other people who lost btc on their site.

i did not lost anything since i deposited anything and im not even mad at them, they should be atleast honest
i repeat, i recorded over 3000 server seed hash and 2 of them did not match

how can i prove it? i just have a list server seed, hash, client and nonce but even if i provide it to you, will you believe me? you could say that i just generated them on a txt file
it's not demonstrable unless you video record over 3000 free rolls, which of course i did not.

i encourage anyone to start saving their server hash before and after any rolls.
if you want i can even provide you the same script i used to automatically save them on file and check them

You only need to record a few in a row until you hit the hash on which they cheat?
Just download OBS, and record whenever you free roll.
If you are right you are onto something big, big enough it is worth to effort to record a free roll.
Not worth it on my part to check it because I believe they dont cheat with the free roll, and honestly free coins is free coins to me.
Might be a bad way to look at it but I dont put too much effort into clicking on that site anyway. Its a once a hour set and forget kinda thing.

Is that really true that the server seed hash changed? Actually I never observed this. I have played a lot there though never get high price. But I remember that I have rolled 10000 number two times in multiply game not in free hourly roll.

It is true, i recorded 2 totally different 64 characters long hash, not just some buggy empty hash, i'm truly sure it's not an error on my side
It may be a bug on their side but it's pretty suspect
Well rolling a higher number in multiply game is not so important.
Plus, i blieve that the multiply game is probably fair since they have a decent house edge (5%) although i did not checked yet


Not worth on my part neither, nobody pays me lol.
Like you said, i just have 30 sec to waste every hour to free roll, not more.
It would be better if done in group, this way it could be resolved in a couple of days

If you found bug really and have enough proofs tell admin about it. If they get it clearly a bug they might solve it and you will be rewarded I guess. Cause freebitco isn't a scam or cheat website. There is actually one thing problematic and that is 5% house edge.

I don't know if it's a bug or it was made on purpose to reward only member who deposit (it's just my guess uh)
I thought the site was completely fair too, but i can't explain those 2 different hashes in no other ways
It's better to wait the answer of an admin from freebitcoin

Interesting. It would be interesting to hear statement from wetsuit or TheQuin. I don't want to believe that they are trying to discourage users from playing free roll by replacing server seed hashes. Then it would simplier just to remove words "provably fair" from their faucet. I hope it's just a bug.

I think they just want to discourage users who doesn't deposit at all because they are not bringing any money to the site

Btw i just deposited a decent amount of satoshis and i started to free roll every hour, recording hashes as usual, let's see if it's still "bugged"

I would suggest reaching out to them and inform them of your findings and their response will tell you if they are being sly or if it is a genuine bug.  They have so far seemed legitimate and one of the longest faucets around, I hope it's a bug they're unaware of.

Hmm, this sounds interesting, but I don't want to just believe you.
I have set up a small script now which automatically compares and records the hashes before and after the roll.
If the phenomena is a s rare as you say it will take some time til I get a result.

Pure probability and statistic laws say that 14.5 out of 10000 results gives you one of the 4 highes winning classes which means on average every 700th roll will be of one of this classes.
I rolled now about 3300 times and had 3 results in these classes. On average I should have had 4.7 which is pretty close.
Statistically it could just be bad luck, but I'm curious what my recors say after another 1000 or more rolls.

Ok, I was not believing it in the first place, but I noticed the same thing using my script.
I was rolling a lot the last several days to finally cash in all my reward points with 1000% boni.

Today around 5:42 UTC I rolled and the script alerted me!
The hash of the server seed before the roll was "e0dae012326019db972797e41a3edee109d0b9c8859c704ac9f984fcb3251729".
After the roll the hash of the pervious server seed was "81c07a9aba1b10da9a757d339a3e05a5cb7466d13c0c8abf3e72bb3b9f85aa7e".

It is obvious that the server seed hash changed and therefore also the server seed changed and the result of the roll changed!
The server seed of the second hash is "7d65304764de4888be843be666980845aa129f8b95eb490e66aa42017b080eb0".
My client seed was "21aeb50085fe13a3e35f1052acb0f91fdeab588264f2fc64462fd071b0fcae6e".
The nonce of the roll was 3658.
This leads to a 1507 being rolled (https://s3.amazonaws.com/roll-verifier/verify.html?server_seed=7d65304764de4888be843be666980845aa129f8b95eb490e66aa42017b080eb0&client_seed=21aeb50085fe13a3e35f1052acb0f91fdeab588264f2fc64462fd071b0fcae6e&server_seed_hash=81c07a9aba1b10da9a757d339a3e05a5cb7466d13c0c8abf3e72bb3b9f85aa7e&nonce=3658 (https://s3.amazonaws.com/roll-verifier/verify.html?server_seed=7d65304764de4888be843be666980845aa129f8b95eb490e66aa42017b080eb0&client_seed=21aeb50085fe13a3e35f1052acb0f91fdeab588264f2fc64462fd071b0fcae6e&server_seed_hash=81c07a9aba1b10da9a757d339a3e05a5cb7466d13c0c8abf3e72bb3b9f85aa7e&nonce=3658))

I will definitly report this to TheQuin and ask him about the server seed of the first hash, because what I really want to know now is what the result would have been with the real server seed!

I know that there is no way prooving that I did not fake these numbers, but I cannot think of a way to do so.
I attach an pdf with all the hashs recorded by my script to this post, so that you can see I actually recorded them. The upper ones are the most recent ones and the changed ones are marked red.

The link to the pdf: https://docdro.id/gROgDL2 (https://docdro.id/gROgDL2)

Sorry i noticed your message only today.
I did the exact same thing you did, saving every hashes.
Unfortunately, we cannot really prove anything because "everyone can fake those numbers"
TheQuin answered to you? He just ignored me lol

You should probably move (bottom-left) this to Scam Accusations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0).

I've often wondered if they're legit, based on the average cost per faucet claim:
1 number pays $200
2 numbers pay $20
4 numbers pay $2
8 numbers pay $0.20
100 numbers pay $0.02
9886 numbers pay $0.002

I've always wanted to know if they really pay $271.37 on average for 10000 rolls. And if so, why don't they just pay $0.027 for each roll? They'd have the highest paying faucet, while it would cost them the same amount in total.
Because they choose not to pay the average amount for each roll, but made it a jackpot system, cheating would be possible and largely go unnoticed. Especially if they only cheat once every few thousand rolls.

Based on the odds, I would expect one $200 winner for every 2 $20 winners.
I did a (manual) count on pages 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 on Big wins at FreeBitco.in (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1850855.0):
I just won $20 at FreeBitco.in! 116 times
I just won $200 at FreeBitco.in! 2 times
I probably miscounted a bit, but let's round it down: winning $200 is 50 times less likely than winning $20, and that makes the difference 25 12.5 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045277.msg48558394#msg48558394) times larger than it should be.

I have to point out that the first prize have a winning chance of 1 every 20.000 and not 10.000 because of the way the mechanics are made (every number below 9999,5 gets rounded to 9999).
Anyway the difference is still larger, 12.5 times, than it should be so this is another proof against them
Thanx for you manual counting lol

sooo they claim to have 17 million users

sooo if they have daily active 100k users which make at least 1 free rolls they should pay minimum 2.000 USD  daily + other rewards which are quite significant in long run



sooooooo im pretty sure that no one will give away 2k USD every day totally almost free


even if you earn quite a lot from multiplier game  2k  every day + other rewards are too good to be true



especially in bitcoin world :) heh ;)

For me, 7631 free rolls played, and best number i got is 9988. If numbers have the same probability, I should draw 9994 or higher 6*7631/10000=4 times already.
It's obvious, as said earlier, that all numbers don't have the same probability of being drawn, and I think it has something to do with the calculation method.
I precise I've deposited on the site (i have no more captcha).

Provably fair means, for them, that you can check the way number is calculated. But the calculation isn't just a rnd()*10000 formula, but is much more complex, so that no one can prove it's made to draw mainly 0-9984 numbers.

This is not how it works.
If you have 7631 rolls, then every time you have a 6/9999 times to hit 9994-9999, the expedition is a different thing.
It's a complex calculation from variance and expectation value, you can find more info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance.

This is the reason why someone is lucky on variance and win the lottery with 1 ticket and someone with millions of tickets, never wins.
Just only because it's improbable it doesn't mean if you will roll the coin 50 times you will not have 50 times head.

Disregard all the trolls saying that you were "Unlucky" or that your seed weirdness was "just a bug".  I have undeniable proof that the server seeds ARE changed.  I,  like you have compiled a MASSIVE db of free rolls and my screenshots speak for themselves.  You dont even need the verify links to see that the seeds DO change and I can even tell you for which rolls that they WILL change.  It's for any roll ABOVE 9993 as seen in my screenshots below.  This has been documented for YEARS but no one ever believes it because they are to stupid to realize that humans ARE indeed complete assholes and will cheat you every chance they get.  The reason you are seeing these server seeds being replaced are because of 1 of 2 reasons:

1.  You are on a bot blacklist
2.  (and more likely I think) The site purposely limits the amount of upper tier free rolls that it will allow which is COMPLETELY against the "provably fair" claim.

The below screenshots show that 9994 to 10000 are all missing.  This is simply NOT possible in this reality.  The chances of all of these numbers being missed IN ORDER in ~20000 rolls is so small that the HD of this forum's server couldnt hold the amount of 0's it would require in order to represent the probability of it happening in 0.0000...%  It's absolutely clear that these results are from purposeful SERVER SEED changing (which you have noticed in your own DB,  I didnt even bother to record them as they are not necessary to see patterns in cheating).  You can see that 0-10 have no problem showing up as results,  it's only the upper numbers that have issues even though they BOTH should have the same probability of being rolled.  You certainly do NOT see 0-10 missing IN ORDER like you do for 9994+

You will also observe the SAME result if you try to use the "jackpot" in the "Multiply Game".  You'll also observe the same result if your "profit" from any "Multiply Game" bet is over 7x of your original bet OR if your profit is exactly 20BTC.  The site clearly has limits in place that are NOT disclosed and are purposefully hidden behind a "Provably fair" claim which is difficult to prove unless you compile data like I have.  The ONLY part of the site that can make a decent "provably fair" claim is the LOTTERY which uses a BTC hash for the Server seed,  but with the site's behavior in all other rolls,  I wouldnt put to much stock into the lottery WINNER actually being a real person as very very few of them actually claim to have won.  There have only been a handful seen in the forums which is in line with all other manipulations that they do that would support a theme of limiting what they will allow to be won.  So even though the lottery is technically "provably fair".  The actual WINNING ID/id's may indeed be changed by the server to someone that doesnt actually exist (this is why it's not possible for people to see if an ID exists or not,  if they did this,  it would reveal the ID changing of the lottery),  thus allowing only a few people to have actually "won" anything at all.  And thats IF they arent already "in the hole" from the multiply game.

Also notice that this isnt really limited to just 9994+ either.  Notice of 0-10 are so plentiful that they take up all of my mysql results.  But for the 9000+ rolls,  it sinks all the way down to 9978.  This is CLEAR evidence of my #2 theory I think.

This site is such an obvious scam it's just disgusting.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/94Tu32EtTPKMGx2N5YNoXQ.png

https://image.prntscr.com/image/RbcQKemWQr25Jb73QjUZ6A.png

I have made over 18 000 faucet claims in 3 years and I haven't rolled 9994 and higher numbers. Also, any of my referrals also haven't rolled numbers higher than 9993. But I don't want to believe that Freebitco.in are cheating. How you can explain things which are posted in this thread?: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1850855.0. There are hundreds of users who had posted proofs that they rolled 9998-9999 and several who rolled 10000, for example most recent winner of $200 -https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1850855.msg48648119#msg48648119. I don't even talk about 9994-9997 there is mathematically bigger chance to roll these numbers than 9998-9999, but we don't know how many user rolled these numbers. Offcourse, it would be interesting to know why server seed got changed for users who posted in this thread, but I don't want to believe that Freebitco.in would cheat their users for few bucks.

What you dont want to believe and what reality actually is are two different things.  Believe whatever you want,  but the facts speak for themselves.  Just take a look at the screenshots and you can see clearly that there IS cheating going on as far as Freebitco is concerned.  As I stated before,  the answer to why people report things in the "big wins" thread is VERY simple as I explained in my #2 theory (which isnt really a theory anymore as much as it is a proven fact).  The site purposely throttles the amount of wins it doles out.  It does this not only for free rolls,  but the lottery AND the multiply game.  These are proven facts.  Why people still think this site is legit is a complete mystery to me.

To be honest there must be something in it, many time I rolled number above 9990 and when I was certain that I won , the number automagically changed to lower. I would not be surprised If only friends of developers and devs are rolling the highest numbers. Same goes to their weekly lottery, there is tendency that new account wins. 

You guys might want to check this out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5092067.0

The fact that the guy posted this in the Altcoin Discussion board makes me think that it is legit and not some conspiracy generated by the freebitco.in devs. I know its only a $20 win but nevertheless it goes to show that it does happen.

Pretty much the most unsettling thing about this particular dice site is that the house edge is considerably large... I don't know why people who accrued large amounts of bitcoin would use it when there's alternative with much better odds... yet they still do...

Although I did never check, I also don't believe that freebitco will do cheating. I never have seen such kinda complain and I personally win $20 couple of times. It would be better if TheQuin put his/her opinion here.

The closest number I rolled so far was 9995, but I guess that they have to "protect" the higher earnings since there are like tens of thousands of claims daily. Besides, it's free.

Makes sense...... unless you try to lie about it,  which they do.  They attempt to make it sound like there is an EQUAL chance to roll 10000 as there is with rolling 0.  But that just is NOT the case and it's been overwhelmingly proven by multiple people now which means their "Provably fair" claim can no longer be used since we now all know it's NOT provably fair as far as the rolls are concerned.  In order to be "provably fair",  there must be an EQUAL chance to roll ANY number that is within the given range (which is 0 to 10000 for freebitscam) and it must be mathmatically provable.  The fact that they dont acknowledge this now obvious cheating is what people like myself will bitch about.  In general, humans dont like to be lied to and they'll go to extreme lengths to make others aware of the lying going on.  It took me a YEAR of compiling roll results to prove this fact beyond a reasonable doubt without the need for the provably fair links.  I have so much data that its just blatantly obvious with no need to prove every single roll.  I can prove it just by sheer numbers of results that I've logged over a 1 year period for 3 accounts.  I think they "gambled" on the fact that no one would waste that much time to prove that they ARE cheating.........  well,  they lost that bet.  And if you've seen my posts,  you'll also see that I'm now one of their biggest critics also and I routinely point out all the lies that TheQuack and WetBackEars spews out.  They try to paint me as some troll hoping that no one will believe anything I say, but they can only lie for so long before it all careens off course and smashes into wall,  likely one thats got "Reputation:  Rekt" spray painted all over it.  They are going to try to "Rebrand" to wipe the accusation slate clean as well as get away from the google results associated with their name and all the cheating going on,  but that almost always fails anyway.

I think they assumed nobody would stop using the site because of this, and from what I've read in this thread, they won that bet.

Bitconnect tried the same philosophy.  It ended well for them,  they are still in the top 50 right lol.  I wonder how their rebrand is going that they had planned.

Actually Bitconnect isn't even on the charts anymore because they're not being traded anymore (well, only on one highly questionable exchange). Their rank doesn't exist because the value of their market cap is effectively zero.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitconnect


In your sig it says,

"Watch me rape Freebitco.in 24x7 with my gambling bot"

I dunno, from the way you complain about things it sounds like you're the one being raped.

Since you're not quite capable of deciphering sarcasm from comments,  I'll refrain from speaking in tongue thats impossible for those with an IQ less than that of a rock to understand.

It's quite possible to rape a scamming casino.  You can watch me on my live stream for proof of that.  No amount of "provably fair" cheating on their part is going to be able to stop a gambling bot in what it does or how it works.  I have no problem racking them over the coals both on a forum as well as in their pocket :P  There are plenty of other casinos to screw with if freebitscam ever decides to close up shop (or in this case,  re-brand as they are attempting to do now to erase their bad reputation).  But why switch when they are the easiest crooked kid on the block to steal from and pick on.

Yeah, and there is even dedicated thread where people are posting their $20 and $200 wins. It's interesting how @broke_tradah would explain this thing. Probably he will say that freebitco.in allow to win for small part of their users to show that they're legit, while thry are cheating with rest of users.
It would be interesting to hear TheQuin words about OP case. I asked once him to post here, but he choose to ignore this thread because OP didn't provided more proofs than just words.

Did you see this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045277.msg48532360#msg48532360) comparing the ratio between $20 and $200 winners in that thread? Based on my sample size of 118 winners, the $200 prize should have drawn 12 times more than it did.

I saw it and I don't think that numbers that you counted mean something. There is no way how we can know real number of $20 and $200 winners. Users who post in that thread proof of winning get extra $5 bonus. Users who won $20 are more incentivised to post because $5 is significant bonus to their winning. I think that big number of $200 winners don't bother to sign up on forum to upload proof just to get five bucks. And when people win bigger amount of money, not everyone want show it in public and attract attentiin to themselves. Offcourse, it's just my assumptions without knowing real number of $20 or $200 winners. There was also complaints about their lottery, that there was only few users that posted proofs that they won. But if I would win over 2 BTC one day, I'm not sure that I would want to post about it in public to get few bucks as a bonus.

I don't claim to understand how their particular hash generations work but it seems to me like you're right in that you can't use forum posts as a statistically valid way of counting winners. It is only potentially indicative of something and doesn't constitute as proof of anything.

Also, 20x50 is 1000 posts and is not statically relevant as a number because we have a very low % of winning numbers (under 1%), we need a bigger number to get a realistic value besides variance.
Does this website haven't a public list of rolls?

While that reasoning does stand by itself alone,  it really doesnt stand a chance if you also couple it with clear evidence that shows exactly WHY those statistics in the forum are what they are.  If you combine the forum statistics with my own screenshots and data collection over a 1 year period,  its VERY clear that my data EXPLAINS why the statistics in the forums exist.  Theres a reason for the large gap in the forums and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with people's lack of greed for an extra 5 bux and everything to do with the fact that there really are NOT as many $200 winners as their should be.  There are not even as many $20 winners as their should be either for that matter.

Just take a look at my statistics for numbers 0 through 10 and compare them for numbers 9000 through 10000.  Riddle me this,  why is there such a large statistical difference :).  The answer is very simple if you stop and think about it.  It's that Freebitco caps how many winners that it will allow from each 'tier' I guess you could call it and if that were true,  we'd see exactly what we're seeing in both the forums statistics as well as my own data.  He wont reply here because he knows he'll get destroyed with any explanation he can dream up.  You just cant combat hard evidence and there is no point in trying to do so.  He will ignore anything that's actually proven,  but he'll be all over anything that ISNT proven like white on rice in an attempt to make themselves look legit.  The ONLY defense he'd have is "You made all that data up yourself".  Thats the only defense he'd have,  but it's not just me that is seeing this.  It's multiple people and we've each gone about proving the SAME result in different ways,  mine is probably the one that took the longest but imo it's also the most compelling evidence that exists given that it has the largest sample size.  So his next defense would be "You're all conspiring against us!".  At that point,  if you still believe him,  you deserve to lose whatever they steal from you :)

And I also dont think this cheating stops at just the free rolls.  As the old saying goes,  where theres one,  theres more definitely applies to fraudulent activity.  I fully believe this cheating extends into the dice game, jackpot option, and the lottery (although in a different manor).

Let us also not forget that this place has THE HIGHEST house edge of any online casino.  What is their excuse for that?  Their excuse is all the extra's such as the free rolls, promotions, etc.  But uhm,  we already know they're cheating on those,  so where does that leave them as an excuse for the house edge being so high.  It doesnt.  It just proves to us even more than these guys are just Bitconnect 2.0,  complete with a rebrand coming and everything (right as all the cheating accusations are being proven,  how coincidental is that lmfao).  The rebrand does one thing and one thing only for them.  It takes their name and connection to fraud/cheating out of all the google searches, forum searches,  etc.  Only those that were here BEFORE would know the difference.  New people (which they have already admitted is their target audience,  it's called turnover in the gambling realm) would not likely learn of their old past without substantial digging/research.  But when a gambling site rebrands,  it usually fails because it's most often times just a public admittance to the fact that they are indeed guilty of whatever it is they are trying to escape.  The best course of action is NOT to rebrand during a period where you're currently being accused of cheating.  Probably best not to rebrand at all regardless if you're a casino.  Casino rebrands are notorious red flags of scam sites.

Since acusation of the site's cheating right before 1Jan2019, the winning claim on another post popup like coming from nowhere (at least 5 nick names with $20 win). "God of luck" ilsten to you guys..lol.

When dealing with sites that cheat in this manor,  it's not uncommon for them to suddenly disable it in an attempt to make it seem legit.  Like,  'O hey look!  See!  Theres the winners!'.  But it's all just part of a predictable behavior pattern that we can predict here before it even happens.  Or maybe they'll read me saying this and decide not to change a thing at all lol.  The data that is available is enough to convict them in the court of opinion and anything they do or do not do in the future is completely irrelevant.  As my wife has said and warns me,  once a cheater,  always a cheater.

Nothing changed there, there were always many users winning $20. This topic is not claiming nobody is winning, it's claiming not enough users win.

What i mean is the rate of win = as what you said or the mean of this thread's topic "not enough users win", please check back how many posts (per day) that won $20 prior to this acusation topic, and how many of them right after this topic. Only on the date 1 Jan 2019 alone (after this topic) there are multiple claims of $20 winning within the same day, you can check back days before that and count to see how many $20 are there per day to see if "win rate" is normal.

To cheat on this it is too easy, since everything is on their servers / even the s3.amazon... verifer is belong to them also, they can easily do it, i.e (if you are not IT related/coder then study first as if it can be done):

If (SiteProfit <= ExpectedProfit){
    If (UserRollResult > 9997){
         Response1 = HTTP504 --- try again later / site unavailable (damn it let just blame Cloudflare protection haha).
         Response2 = YourNextServerSeed;
         Response3 = Nonce;
         Response4 = YourPreviousServerSeed(modded);            
    }
}
else {
       GameDefault = ProvablyFairGame;
}

P/s: If they really want to have "Provably Fair", it is easy, let a third party company/trusted organization to host the verifier as well as before & after seeds from both what user received & what is on the roll server. The user can then verify by compare both the result with server & third party saved data. Too easy, unless they don't want to do so.

It's even easier than that.  This is the crypto scene after all.  There are PLENTY of smart contract platforms capable of securing a "server seed" or a group of seeds such as server, client seed, nonce, etc such that it cant be changed.  ETH, EOS, Troll errr Tron, even BTC could be used.  Heck you dont even need to use a smart contract.  You could use a hash from any of the blockchains although it would be cooler to use a smart contract.

This is still a low number.
You can still roll under 10000 for millions of rolls! If you are lucky you will get 10000 on 1st try but if you are unlucky (and this is improbable) you will never get 10000, it can took even an infinite number of rolls to get the 1st 10000.
Now if we consider an infinite number of rolls we have exactly one roll=10000 every 10000 rolls, and with all these results, we can calculate when we expect to hit 10000 with a median value.
The Median value is the value where 50% of user will expect to hit 10000.
The Median value for 1/10000 is 6888 and is the number of tries where we switch from lucky to unlucky person.

The % to get the roll is the written below and I used this formula:

I made this example for 10000 with OpenOffice right now.

The % to hit 10000 after x rolls is


While the % to hit 9885-10000 is

---

Of course, all above considering the website is not cheating

Adding a little, very little something

https://puu.sh/Cu9Wi/4472f99d52.png

I've rolled 9983 and missing 0.00000001 BTC on the winning  ::)

You forgot the most important part.  This isnt about 1 number.  This is about a RANGE of numbers that are not hit IN ORDER.  1 number missing isnt something unusual.  But a RANGE of numbers are HIGHLY unusual for the amount of sample size we have 18K for myself,  18K for some other guy,  10k for someone else...  We all came to the same conclusion,  the upper tier of numbers simply do not show up..... at all.  Not just SOME of the time.  But AT ALL.  None.  Notta,  golden goose egg.  This is only possible if the casino is CHEATING on it's "Provably fair" claims.  And if they are cheating here,  they are MOST LIKELY cheating in every other aspect of their casino as well and there are very credible explanations of how that can/could be done for each of their site's features.  The credibility comes from the fact that we now know the site cheats.  If the site couldnt be proven to have been cheating,  then these explanations would carry as much weight.

What range of numbers? I just rolled 9983.

https://puu.sh/CuauR/bee445dd0f.png

And I've started here 2 days ago after reading here.

Look very closely at my 2 screenshots.  You'll see that it shows a RANGE of numbers,  not a single number.  The ranges are 0 through 10 and 9987 though 10000.  In 0 through 10 you can clearly see that at least 95% if not more of the numbers have all been hit at least once and in some cases even hit MULTIPLE times.  0 was hit only once.  If you're a developer at all,  you can see that all I did was select ALL numbers and then sort them based on ASC (ascending) and DESC (Descending) orders.  The fact that the 9000 range showed 9987 is alarming in and of itself without any other scrutinizing.   But if you look at the upper tier numbers,  you'll notice that 9994 through 10000 are all missing from the data.  This is because they have NEVER been hit.  Ever.  The odds of all of them not being hit in order like that is so small that you couldnt store that number to represent it on modern hardware.  So 9994 - 10000 missing would be like 0 through 6 not existing at all in the lower tiers and from the data you can see how unprobable that would be.  In fact,  you could select ANY range of 6 numbers and you'd see that there wouldnt be any chance of ALL of them missing if you have this many rolls for a sample size.  The sample size we're using is greater than 30000 if you combine my own 18K with all the others that have noticed the same thing.

The casino tries to claim that it's "variance",  but variance would not explain this oddity since it's not just a single number,  it's a complete range.  The only explanation is cheating in the form of not all numbers have the same probability of being rolled.  Some have a higher chance than others.  If that were the case then what you would see is that entire ranges of numbers would show less hits than those with a higher probability and thats exactly what we've documented here.  In the data you can also see that even 9886 - 9985 has a lower chance of being hit than 0 - 9885.  It's not as noticable however because the probabilities differ based on 'tiers'.  There are 6 tiers,  each tier has it's own probability level.  This is easily codeable but VERY difficult if not impossible to prove without very large sample sizes (which we have now since the passage of time has allowed for that data to be gathered).

Just looked at it, and yes is strange but not impossible, HOWEVER read below.


The maths show is possible but very improbable


50% of users will hit the range 9993-10000 in around 1000 tries.


This seems very strange but the post I've made here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045277.msg49125605#msg49125605 was about a site without scam

and here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045277.msg48004767#msg48004767 this guy seems to have proven this site uses different hashes and scam their users.

I'm not saying they are not scamming since they change hases, I was talking only about the variance in a not cheating probably fair game.

This is still only for 1 number.  It's not for a RANGE of numbers missing.  Imagine this and add a power of 100 to it.  Thats your probability for all the missing numbers I believe.  I'm certainly no math major but even a 0.0000827% chance of it happening.... to me and multiple people?  Within the same century?  Really?  heh  Start adding in other user's roll sample size and that number gets REALLY small.  I dont have Matlab nor know how to use it,  but I assume thats what you're using here.

EDIT:  Oh nevermind,  you're just using a spreadsheet.  Thats probably not the most accurate way to calculate the range variance,  even so it does still illustrate just how improbable the situation is yet it's obviously showing up more than it should in real world practice.

No, is for a range of 7 numbers and the math is:

(1-((1-7/10000)^20000))x100=99,9999173%

For 1 number is

(1-((1-1/10000)^20000))x100=86,4678251%

Here is another way of looking at it.  Using you're own math,  you have a 0.0000827% chance that I am wrong.  Are you willing to take that bet?  :)  You have 1 roll to win because when it comes to scams,  you only have 1 chance to get it right lol.  If I were you,  I'd also add in the sample sizes of the other people who have all had the same results as I have.  That will give you a better idea on the odds of you getting it right that freebitco isnt a scam when it comes to freerolls and who knows what else ;)

As said before.


I never said they are not scamming since someone seems to have the change of hash proof.

I'm just writing what math is on one not cheating contest when someone talks about variance and luck or unluck.

They are fucking cheaters.....their lottery winners are always fake and relatives and free roll winners hitting high are their fathers...LMAO ;D
Those posting also fake.

Do you have any proof for this statement? Can you proof that the winners of lotteries are fake?  ::)

Adding my two cents here about the lottery: They designed it in a way that they cannot cheat the winning index, that's good, but it's still not provably fair because they could dilute the lottery tickets as much as they want with bogus users (The lottery ticket list could be diluted). Not saying they are cheating the lottery, but lottery is not provably fair for that reason - it would be very hard to make it provably fair, short of something like an audit that's nearly as hard as auditing an exchange. I do automated multiply bets with validation for small amounts and haven't noticed any server seed changing. Not tracking free rolls.

wanna up this thread since no response was given and the data provided is significant, when are you going to mark freebitco.in as a scam site?

Thats why I always get very high numbers every free roll

What data? There was no data provided. Did you even read the thread? 😬

idk maybe you are blind but 4+ people have stats over thousands of rolls all limiting at 9993 proving site is not fair

Very curious if anyone from this forum , actually ever won anything in the lottery ?

I remember that I saw few users posting proofs that they won in lottery in past. But it wasn't biggest prizes. Unfortunately, now I won't be able to find these posts.

anyone else has constant rolling of the number 1582 or 1583? like in 100 free rolls I can get 10-30 times those two numbers, it's just ridiculously flawed and nobody seems to care about it.
Why not just admit it's unfair system and let it be?

I was playing in Freebitco.in during ~3 years. These are my achivements on the sceenshot below. Free rolls played = 10467. The biggest numbers I rolled are:
9993 - 1 time
9992 - 2 times
9990 - 1 time
9989 - 2 times

and never bigger than 9993. After reading this thread, now I am definitely sure that Freebitco.in is cheating.

https://i.imgur.com/wl1LHXN.png

I find it interesting that for years they haven't responded here. I still believe (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045277.msg48532360#msg48532360) the accusations are plausible.

I never understand the idea from this site. It looks like a general information page, but you are supposed to gamble?
In case you gamble here, they do not even have a valid gambling license.

If they really are cheating, why is nobody then tag this site for a yellow tag? Or even red.

Beacuse big players can do more.

We won once $1400 in the lottery, but only once.

How did u export your data?

Is there a simple way to extract it or you copy pasted all the info from the tables in the website?

I never rolled 9993 or higher in ~15000 free rolls in 3 accounts.

What would be cool actually is to have something like a Chrome Extension that everytime we do a free roll, it feeds a public database with the roll's info.