Bitcoin Forum

Digital money such as Bitcoin is known to have serious problems, where they rely on electrical energy with considerable power requirements or proof of work to mine it. However, there are now other options or choices.

Honest Mining's Chief Executive Officer, Lawrence Samantha, said that around 20 percent of companies that are in this business have moved to an option called proof of stake.
At present he is supporting these companies to use proof of stake. Lawrence explained that this scheme makes electricity far more economical.

The adoption of this technology, called Lawrence, will not affect business. However, he stressed that proof of stake is far more environmentally friendly and power efficient.
He said, if previously focused on the 'work' side, now the new technology is more concerned with the 'stake' or ownership of digital coins.
The use of proof of stake Lawrence claims is superior when viewed from various sides. This is evident because several companies that run the new project have adopted it. And, more than 20 percent of the digital coin business in the world already uses this technology.
"The new project has entirely used proof of stake. If the old one is in the process of being considered. It may still be the stage of sight-seeing. The Ethereum company which is in fact the second largest in the world will also move soon. The process is long because the network is extensive," said Lawrence .

funny part is that the PoS lovers are not actually environmentalists. thy are infact people that dont want to pay for resources to get more coin, they just want free coin for no extra work.

it costs nothing extra/new for a PoS user to create blocks.
call it what it is...most yuppies understand. Proof of Lambo
if you have money/lambo you can create more money without having to spend more

just imagine if gold mining changed from a proof of work(diesel from excavators) costing the miner $1000 an ounce diesel burn. and turned it into PoS("i own a lambo gimme coin") costing nothing per coin but just waving THE SAME lambo's pinkslip/logbook every time.

yep those with a lambo get richer but the security level of the PoS chain does not toughen/get stronger. it just gives funds more often to those that just own more lambo's that they earned simply by owning lambo's

environmentally bitcoin is not doing any damage. as bitcoin miners are buying up EXCESS electric thats burned anyway, even if not used

here is few lessons to all the hobby miners trying to scream "eco friendly" as a ploy to try swaying others to consider PoS
1. the gap between electricity production vs demand.. and the actual math of PoW electric used shows that mining does not exceed the excess gap. so most farms are just paying for the gap that would have gone to waste. (its like buying out of date but still edible food to prevent it going to landfill)

2. PoS if enabled wont give local guy in his basement hobby miner a chance to earn coin mining a PoS. instead it will be the rich guys with lots of coin, gaining mor coin. and increasing their chances of getting more coin.. without increasing the chains security

3. if you think that anti-PoW = fair funds for small guys, you would be wrong. what will happen is people will syndicate(join stake) essentially pool funds together and one person then creates the blocks on the pools behalf. thus becoming the same 'pooled' scenario. but at zero actual cost and zero increase of difficulty

WHY?
why is using electricity a "serious problem" only when it comes to bitcoin and millions of others that are using electricity (most of which are actually wasting it) are never talked about?

nobody chooses PoS for any reason other than what Franky said: to make free money.
also you are missing the point that all those who choose PoS are doing it because they know that their coin is useless and because of it nobody will ever waste their time "mining" it so they want to make it as easy as possible for the network to exist
not to mention that PoS is also flawed!

I am a little confused with this technology, how does this technology work so that it can minimize the use of electricity? besides, does the mineral device still use the previous tool or the device is also updated?
there are still many who need to explain in more detail so that it is easy to understand.
or give me a source of information about what you wrote.

Nice way to draw a sharp contrast and paint bitcoin miners as 'dishonest' without actual  implying it
People are entitled to their opinion, but they should not present it as fact or use it as a strategy to draw others to their side.

The POW algorithm has been very successful since it was implemented on the bitcoin blockchain. And very secure.
While POS just requires those with deeper pockets to earn more by simply chinking the coins in their pockets, POW requires them to do actual work and ran there reward every single time.

Talking Electricity Mining to Bitcoin, currently Bitcoin around the world uses 0.5% of the world's electricity. In the new method to determine Bitcoin energy use a few years from now, and the expected results are quite safe for the rest,

In estimates are:
Bitcoin is currently using electricity worldwide at 2.55 gigawatts, equivalent to Ireland's electricity, the 118th largest country in the world by land.
this is equivalent to half a percent of the world's total electricity usage so don't worry about the electricity that Bitcoin miners use for the future is still safe.

This is laughable because the title is different from the content. I still don't understand why a POS coin has value, I have read topics like Masternodes  argument but hosting a node is different from POW  and with time people find out that with increasing inflation of MN coins the price suffered along and it is more of a Mattew Effect in play because the rich just get richer

Plus because it does not cost anything to "mine" more coins and get richer, the originators of a Proof of Stake system will be granted perpetual powers by its users. Why should we grant them perpetual powers over us, and who gave them that right to give it on themselves? The issuance of the coins costed them nothing.

The problem is that Bitmain and big companies with their asics already made it difficult for everyone to run his hobby nowadays  :-\
I prefer asic resistance network although I didn't join any of it yet.

no they didnt
imagine it this way.
50exahash...
thats 50,000,000,000,000mhash
thats ~10,000,000,000,000 CPU  
thats ~333,000,000,000 GPU
thats ~3,600,000 asics

though bitcoin is "CPU/GPU resistant" some think.. have you actually costed out the cost of GPU/CPU mining bitcoin

you would blame intel / AMD that you need to buy 1 trillion PC's just to have a 10% slice of the hashrate pie
you would blame AMD/nvidia that you need to buy 33billion GPU just to have a 10% slice of the hashrate pie

you only need 360,000 ASICS to have 10% of hashrate pie. and right now an asic is ~$500 each
its far cheaper to mine due to asics than with a PC's

....
put it this way. pools can only collate transactions and make a hash of that blocks collection of transactions..
(they are not in control of programming the rules of the network, they collate the data to meet rules. not create rules)

if software devs made is so every 3.6million blocks had a unique IP and device ID (utopia of everyone has a chance)
3.6 million people just need 1 ASIC costing them $500.. but
...but would require 92500 GPU's costing each of the 3.6million people $18,500,000 per person ($200 per gpu)

asics didnt cause the problem.

also to note: even with PoS. people are now syndicating 'stake' into pools. thus hobby stakers have the same solo vs pool screams.

You know, the crypto market is stuck right now and you have to do a big research before you'll start mining.
I think it's better not to mine as it takes much money for electricity bills, but to trade.
Or you can try signing in some blockchain based messengers which allow you to gain some crypto for posting and chatting or simply being online.

Anyway you don't have to believe in crypto only, try to find a new job as coins are not in the best condition these days.

PoS is not the solution, so just get that out of your head. It is a flawed concept and why change something that stood the test of time? If you look at the combined electricity that the Banking sector are using, then it is much worst than the little bit of electricity that Bitcoin is using. <Here we talk about electricity used in their buildings for air-conditioning, lightning, lifts, CCTV, ATMs, computers, Coffee machines, Geysers etc..>

Also, a lot of electricity being used for Bitcoin mining are coming from renewable/clean resources.  ::) 

people really need to research more about Proof of Stake before they start advertising it as a better alternative to Proof of Work that bitcoin works. stop being emotional about mining and the electricity and start really thinking about it. POS is a horrible algorithm for a decentralized network like bitcoin. the fact that some altcoins are using it doesn't mean it is a good thing. in fact it has a worse design, specially when it comes to distribution of new coins and also it has its own flaws and security risks.

Yes, electricity is not serious problem. May places where landing bitcoin-farm?
PoS and Bitcoin? :) It's will never happened. IMHO

The difficulty is what is driving up the costs of mining but if they go to pos then it is cheaper to produce and therefore cheaper to buy. Maybe bitcoin prices will tumble if it goes pos

But what is ASIC-resistance but another buzzword made by altcoins that want to claim that they are? If any altcoin has become "successful", ASICs will be made for them. Some altcoins that changed their mining algorithm because they "feel" like doing it in the name of "ASIC-resistance" are only prolonging the inevitable.

the only way to have an ASIC resistance cryptocurrency is to change the algorithm in short intervals so that you prevent creation of any kind of ASIC machines that can target your algorithm. and that poses a lot of problems because it requires hard forks! and also changing things are never desired specially when it comes to something important like the mining algorithm.
i know some altcoins do that though!

PoW is more secure than PoS and we all know it. Forking and mining in secret due to majority of votes from those people who staked their money will be rampant and this really defeats the purpose of transparency. He who has money will be earning more without doing anything.

I prefer PoW and I don't find it a waste of energy when mining bitcoin as long as you can get any profit from it in a secure way possible.

While I dislike PoW, I hate the idea of PoS even more, Beorn style  ;D

PoS introduced at this point in the Bitcoin code will turn it into a decentralized nightmare, exchanges getting so much power it will be far worse than bitmain.



Asic resistance is indeed just some crappy advertisement for coins.
It's pure idiotic to really believe it will work, and the entire concept is flawed from the start.

This socialist drama of giving the small guy a chance won't work even if we design an algorithm that can run only on a certain brand of gpu , x ram and z hdd space. Somebody with enough money will start assembling exactly this kind of miner with components bought in bulk from the manufacturer, at half the price the usual customer can do it and set up warehouses where he is earning x3 times more than the kid doing so in his bedroom.

And in the end the average miner will still drive out of business, it will just take a a bit longer. And the more profitable that coin is the more the incentive to develop an asic for it. I doubt somebody is planning to build some asic for HarmonyCoin for example (no idea what algo it runs on) when its entire market cap is not worth an 1060 3b card.


Do you have some estimates if BTC hits 50k $?  ;D

exactly
the only reason you have not seen this really happen is that the coins that do PoC(proof of capacity/cpu/components) are coins that are worth very little and have no real merchant real life utility. so its not worth the bother.. however if a coin should become popular then you would see pooling/farming begin.

as said before some of the popular PoS coins are already seeing people pool funds together or use exchanges as their pooled/syndicated stake, leaving the little guys with alittle dust amounts (hobbyists) with no chance

also coins that have no 'acquisition cost' to get fresh coins, EG PoS(requirements is just a signature) also dont have good bottomline 'value' price support. literally if it costs nothing to get the coin people will literally sell it all the way down to a penny and still consider it profitable. so its not just a security of the data that PoW helps. but also the security of the bottomline price supportline as it costs something to make fresh coin people wont just sell it at any price. they will look to sell only above what they paid to get it.

Seems good but i dont think that people who mine bitcoin would care about the environmet and actually change their method to protect the nature as you mentioned above. Also about the cost , i agree to that , it reduces cost but increases human effort. So people usually pay more to reduce human effort. These things like actually cancel the things to told.
Well as far nature is concerned , people might try to implement these methods in the coming future as we also have to consider the nature. We already know what happens when we ignore nature and still act against it..

Now a days electricity problem is solved many techniques are available through which you can save money and electricity is high consumption in many countries so it is not the problem now that electricity is disturbing the mining of crypto solar light is available which can provide us free electricity and we don;t need the traditional line of electricity now a days so mining can be more profitable than before.

we  can use alternative energy sources so it can save electricity and we can also protect the environment against global warming risks.

I have been saying that many times in the technical and development subforum, but not one of you was debating Ali-someone about it. He proposed ProgPow as a replacement for SHA256, which he "claims" is ASIC-resistant.

If you have cheap electricity mining definitely worth it, if there was no profit, POW currencies wouldn't work any more. It's harder for small investors, so i would recommend trading rather than mining. But if you have cheap electricity, yes you can make some money. In my country, electricity is cheap, with around 4-5k investment, you would get your money back maybe in a 10-12 months plus if you have warranty on your GPUs, it's great for you.
If you combine mining and trading... well you know ;)

Also if you have some second source of money to cover the electricity, you can hold those coins and wait for later grow and there you go.

if bitcoin is changed from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake, the capitalization value may decrease because the process of getting or mining bitcoin does not require a large fee.

Can the power saver system be used in all countries? Because in my country electricity is very expensive, if we start for minning there will be a lot of electricity.

I have some coin that are proof of stake consensus base and I have being receiving more coin. I want to ask a question the is disturbing me, If we keep on getting more coin just for keeping would it make the coin to be too much in circulation thereby causing dropping in price?

When there are 12 millions $ for grab each day, and maybe soon growing to 24 or 36 like in December. there is no such thing as ASIC resistant.


Fees have nothing to do with the algorithm of the coin, all that is matter are the capacity and the number of the transaction being made by day.


Do you really think that if miners top mining bitcoin you will get cheaper power in your country?
Out of curiosity, what country are w talking about?

Depends,
if you choose a high inflation PoS coin, then excessive supply will cause a price drop over time as the markets become saturated.

If you choose a low inflation PoS coin, then price per coin will grow over time as its utility as a payment system grows.   :)

using alternative energy isnt really effecient when mining because mining requires alot of power to be able to mine a coin succesfully .  using alternative energy isnt also helpful to the environment because your mining hardware will still blow polution or excess waste whenever you run it .


I dont know if some mining hardware do have this feature but if your using a pc/laptop sure you can enabled it and you can now save electricity but your mining power will be affected    . best solution to your problem is stop mining at all because you cannot earn sufficient income when your bills are too high .

But what do POS proponents have to say to the question of why the originators of a POS system must be granted the rights to hold the power on the network forever.

Clean energy actually is efficient enough to power miners. Plenty of them are looking into renewable sources. Technology in this sector is bound to improve and become cheaper in the coming years, too, so things are only going to get better from here.

Mining hardware only really generate heat, which isn't a pollutant. It could even be harnessed for other purposes.

Some people loved this electricity consumption idea and they emphasize it in various versions. I don't think that used electricity by miners is a serious problem. When it comes to bitcoin, some people suddenly become a nature defender. This is a popular strategy which is used for a while to blame bitcoin. There are many systems which are used in financial system. For example; every bank uses a huge amount of electricity for providing 7/24 services to its customers. But I have never read such a news about it.