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Was wondering how long it would take Flying Hellfish to abuse his moderator privileges to censor comments he disagrees with. Was easier than I thought to make it happen.

The P&S section deserves an unbiased Moderator.


EDIT: Subject changed from the title that Flying Hellfish gave it.

You're not allowed to contribute because you weren't even there!

You're not staff, therefore you're not allowed to criticize staff.

 ::)

Let’s find out.

The post I removed was a reference to me and telling me to not allow you to come to my area or some horse shit.

I look forward to being removed as a mod for this insane liberal censorship.

You guys don't get it, you don't own the P&S board and if you don't follow the rules then too fucking bad.

I'm also looking forward to red paint from you!

You don’t get it. You don’t own the board and don’t get to make the rules. You are a perfect example of what is wrong with the snowflake media. Criticize others then cry and abuse your power when it comes back to you.

I get it bro, I was tasked with applying the rules of the board and I have allowed anyone to express their opinion.  I will happily remove posts from anyone that are off topic and will ensure the entire thread is derailed into off topic attacks.  You want an attack thread here it is.

I assume theymos will let me know when he decides I am not applying the rules fairly and will take appropriate action.

You should post the deleted material so everyone can see the information being discussed.

Maybe if you didn’t want it deleted, you shouldn’t have deleted it. People like you are the reason why there is a first amendment.

Oh I don't care if you post it here or not I know what it said and so does theymos if he cares to look, but usually when someone calls for extreme measures like removing a mod they like to provide some evidence so other people can evaluate for themselves the evidence and form their own opinion rather than relying on yours!

Oh the irony.

You literally provide no information about the fucking problem and provide no argument for wanting me removed as a moderator.

If you want anyone to actually take you serious you made the claim you should probably provide the proof seeing as you have it and I don't.

Well to chime in, Flying Hellfish just deleted a couple posts of mine that strayed a bit off topic, now that I look at in retrospect. One of the posts basically had me calling Trump a bombastic asshole and hoping that he would rage quit. I noticed that he deleted a reply made by another leftist as well. So it appears that he is applying the rules consistently.    

You wanting me to post what you took upon yourself to censor is hilarious.

I'll still be here when you catch up turbo!

Censorship and name calling. You’re a great example.

Why did you edit the post lol.  You didn't start the topic but posted it in P&S and demanded I move it here.  I did as you asked.

Fortunately theymos can see the edited post and original post I deleted.  

I do love the fact that you want me removed, now for being biased (btw I am biased like all humans, good luck finding one that isn't, I do my best to apply the rules fairly though) and fail to provide any context.

You still don't understand that the person making an accusation kind of needs to provide evidence to support their claim.  I get that it doesn't look good for you so you won't post it but come on man you simply can't ask for a mod to be removed without any supporting evidence...

Otherwise it's your word against mine and since no evidence and a person is always innocent until proven guilty I win!

#metoo  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5062023.0



I have been thru this exact process before here with other staff and their toadies trying to find any avenue to discredit me because they don't like what I have to say. I have seen this dynamic before. The problem is between Flying Hellfish and his little Communist toadies that follow him everywhere enabling his behavior (hint they show up in these threads too).

Most people are happy to read the commentary, agree with it or not and move on unless some one is preventing a conversation. These people constantly seek out any possible technical violation and report it, knowing like an obedient collectivist, Flying Hellfish will see it their way and comply.

Some one says some thing the leftists don't like, they shotgun reports hoping any will stick, then Flying Hellfish dutifully follows up and deletes the material with full deniability. Oh I had to! That other guy over there who just happens to agree with me completely reported it!

In short this is the same leftist bullshit they pull on every other social media platform shutting out any kind of dissent from their approved opinion. We are all equal under the rules, but some are more equal than others. Don't let Bitcointalk become another Facefuck or Twatter.

The P&S section deserves an unbiased Moderator.

Not sure what the deleted post was - similar to this perhaps?


What does the nationality of the moderator have to do with the topic about Trump investigations? Cut that shit or don't post at all if you can't separate the argument from the person making the argument.

Well take your complaint to Theymos if you feel that strongly.  Flying Hellfish was selected based on the number of good reports in P&S if I'm not mistaken, and a lot of members voted for him. 

I swear, not even noobs who get their posts deleted whine this much about moderation.  Politics & Society was a cesspool in dire need of a strong moderator, which Flying Hellfish is proving to be.  All I can see is constant attacks against him by you and TECSHARE that apparently spilled over into the Reputation section because they'd be off-topic in P&S.  It's not even clear to me what the original issue was, but from what I've read in the threads started by you and TECSHARE, Flying Hellfish is trying to keep his own politics out of his moderator job and at least realizes the potential conflict of interest. 

If you find a better candidate for a P&S moderator, take it up the chain.  Flying Hellfish doesn't deserve this shit from you two whiners.

^ Whiner says what?

Wanting unbiased discussion seems to have ruffled your panties. I wonder why?

See, I can be an annoying ass too.

Honestly, I DGAF about politics. I care about this forum, and it deserves free unbiased discussion.

You’re also right, noobs don’t complain, they just stop participating.

I guess posting about Trump’s investigation in the Trump Investigation topic isn’t appreciated.

You can't complain about me censoring fuck all in MY SELF MODERATED thread.  Don't like it don't post in my thread.

ARRRR I'm so mad, I hate Canadians, reading is hard.

Is that a complaint? I was merely stating a fact. Right? Reading isn’t that hard. Try it slower and you’ll get the hang of it. Don’t hate Canadians. They’re typically a friendly bunch in my RL experience.

Pointing out that I did what is within the rules is stupid.  I pointed out I was within the rules to do what I did.

self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed.

I just don't want you shitting up my thread, just pointing out a fact.

We're talking moderating as in reports, right? Not deleting posts from their self-moderated threads?

I have no stake in either side but I do think that there is a critical difference between deleting posts in a topic that you have self-moderated vs. selectively deleting posts from reports of a board.

So you are complaining I posted in your thread and getting defensive when I point it out? Got it.

Funny watching you try and frame my argument. I was just pointing out that you’re biased. You agreed that you are biased. What’s the issue?

The only thing to discuss is whether the forum should have a biased moderator in the P&S section.

He's purposefully trying to merge the two issues...

Seems like you don't need to post in P&S if you don't care about politics. Personal grievances can be posted here in Reputation.

OgNasty got one deleted post in modlog (https://bitcointalk.org/modlog.php):
I've checked my own files scraped from recent (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=recent): two of OgNasty's posts in 13 Dead at mass shooting in California Bar (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5065610.0) are gone. One of them was moved (the thread we're reading now), so I assume the other one is what this is all about. From my records (raw HTML, unedited as it was first posted, unfortunately I remove all quotes to safe space so I don't know if there was a quote):
Based on the post number, it would have been between bones261's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5065610.msg47780325#msg47780325) and suchmoon's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5065610.msg47780597#msg47780597).

I checked 2 posts before and 2 posts after OgNasty's deleted post: those posts haven't been removed.

Just pointing out that we have a biased moderator. That involved me posting to make my point. I’ve largely avoided that section for over 7 years here.


We have a moderator saying I hate Canadians, which isn’t true, and deleting me setting the record straight. If you don’t see a problem with this, you are part of the problem.

Thank you now we can see since the accuser wouldn't post any information that I removed a post telling me to stay where I am is off topic in a thread about 13 dead in a mass shooting in California...

Can you some how get the original post in this thread?  The OP deleted to change the original intent where he asked me to move it to reputation, and is now claiming he didn't start the topic.

You’re accused of being biased. You admitted as much. Why are you trying to frame my argument as something else? Are you saying you aren’t biased? If so, let us hear the argument. Otherwise, the attacks against me for pointing out the obvious are just another example of how you attack those who have a different opinion, even when they say they will show you the same courtesy you show them...

Why do I think you hate Canadians because you insulted a group of people based on their nationality... Why did you leave out the part where you insult Canadians calling them school children etc etc.

Calling someone a friend before insulting them is just slightly disingenuous.

Who’s whining now?  :'(

Are we getting emotional? Do you need me to say it again? I don’t hate Canadians. I have found them to be great peaceful people in real life. You keep deflecting from the fact that you are biased and moderating based on your opinions. Do you have any real argument against that, or would you like to try and make up more lies about me?

That's not really a fact. That's your opinion at most. FHF has removed and moved plenty of off-topic posts on all sides of these debates when they go off rails and this made P&S readable again. Your contribution after 7 years of avoiding it was to come in and troll it.


Well, you've made your point and it's quite useless. Try again in 7 years.


I don't see a problem with off topic posts being removed. You can create a new thread professing your love for Canadians.

He said he was biased. First read, then form an opinion.

Let me make it simple for you.

Do you think it is OK to have a politically biased moderator in the P&S section, yes or no? Are you capable of answering a question with a yes or no? Let us find out.

Unlike you I read the whole thing before forming an opinion:



Yes.

There is no reason to believe that FHF is not a fair moderator.

Can't we all just get along?   :-\  .. and why again did we have to wait for LoyceV to post the info needed here.  ???  ::)

I'm not going to argue whether the post was off-topic or not... it was off-topic.
This seems to be how it went:







If this is how it went down, and you're going to remove the last post by OgNasty, why not delete any others?

OK. Then we have a fundamental difference of opinion. That’s really where the argument between you and I should end unless you have some other motive here.

I think Og was replying to this:


Most of the other posts were at least tangential to the topic (mass shooting in a bar). Og's deleted post was entirely a personal potshot with no apparent connection to the topic.

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Wait, are you now censorshipping me out of your thread? ::) Ima create three new threads about this.

Good luck finding a moderator that doesn't have political opinions and is willing to moderate the shithole that is P&S.

OgNasty's post was posted just 5 posts (give or take 14 seconds) after bones261's post. Therefore, I think OgNasty's reply was a response to this post instead:
(correct me if I'm wrong here, I can't be sure)

The posts were saved on my PC at these times (but allow for a few seconds margin for scraping):

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Update: I fixed my dirty mind :P

Thank you. I also wish you good luck with defending a biased moderator because they moderate based on your shared beliefs. I’m sure that won’t backfire down the line at all.  :D

LOL

And yes, that post can be considered off topic but at least it mentions guns etc. Og's post has nothing on the topic. So if the line has to be drawn somewhere it's quite reasonable to draw it there.

Hmm OK, thanks for the correction!

To clarify, this would be considered close enough to on-topic to the discussion of "13 Dead at mass shooting in California Bar"?


Not trying to stir the pot here, just wanting to know for my own understanding of what is and is not considered on/off topic.
 

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Side note: The accidental typo by LoyceV at least adds some humor to the thread..

You are focusing on the wrong topic. I see now that is because Flying Hellfish named this thread, not me. I’ve updated it to accurately reflect the correct discussion.

Well IMHO, a good moderator for a section should at least have an interest in the main topic. I'm not certain that it is possible to find another candidate that is interested in P&S, yet is also totally unbiased. Perhaps a better solution is to add an additional moderator to the P&S section. Perhaps someone with an perspective that leans more to the right.

Do you even read what you write?

Eh, politics.

From what is presented in this thread and some other threads in reputation, FH is doing his job just fine.

Perhaps theymos should change some rules there and moderator should remove spam only. Off topic replies, trolling and personal attacks are suitable for discussion about politics, as it is crucial part of politics.

Do you understand English or do I need to translate to French for you?

Nobody's unbiased, and anyone who pretends to be is lying to either you or to themselves. The idea reminds me of the bureaucrats who run government, appearing to be neutral while actually pushing strongly for an agenda, especially tending to promote the expansion of bureaucracy as well as the continuation of the status quo. (This largely-invisible but very powerful political force is sometimes what people mean when they use the term "deep state".) Fair moderation requires that you understand yourself well enough to know what your biases actually are, and then take conscious action to avoid letting them cloud your judgement. One's skill at doing this is totally independent of political beliefs: a radical might be able to do it, and a centrist might not.

It was incorrect for OgNasty's post in that thread about the California shooting to be deleted; I restored it. I read that post as not an ad hominem; its main point seemed to be expressing a preference for localism vis-à-vis gun control, and gun control is clearly on-topic in that thread. But my impression is that Flying Hellfish has been moderating fairly on the whole. Mistakes happen.

While Flying Hellfish is pretty far left, I am an anarcho-capitalist; I view his political beliefs as ~80% insane. Having two diametrically opposed viewpoints here is a good combination which will hopefully prevent the formation of an echo chamber for one viewpoint or another. I think that people in the last several years have become largely unable to face opposing viewpoints, which isn't good.

Mods can delete whatever they want in their self-moderated threads, just like anyone else.


It'd be OK IMO for topic-starters to express a preference for more or less moderation. But in general, on-topicness is especially important in political discussions so that one side doesn't filibuster the other with nonsense. I'm also concerned with off-topic thought-terminating clichés (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9) in political discussions (from all sides).

This stuff is all subjective. There's no such thing as perfect moderation, since everyone has a different idea of what perfection would be. You just do the best you can.

I appreciate the comments theymos. I feel like my opinion has been heard and my point made. Thank you.