Bitcoin Forum

For years we have listened to the bullshit about decentralised money and how the people will have control of their money with Bitcoin. Well what a lot of shit that ended up being. It is obvious that Bitcoin is not decentralised and a few miners or whatever can completely destroy this innovation. I am sick of listening to those self absorbed arrogant rich nerds that should never be in the position that they are with the Bitcoin Cash hardfork. I know this is BCH but it is screwing up everything. I don't really give a crap whether Roger Ver's vission or Craig Wrights vision is correct - all I know is that there selfish tweets and playing so called nerd hardball about moving Bitcoin hashrate to BCH and deliberately forcing the Bitcoin price down to 1000 USD to prove a point is absolute insanity. It proves to me that decentralization is a myth and having these kind of people lead us to the future is nothing less than a nightmare and the possible end for Bitcoin and all crypto. What a wasted chance all of this is ending up to be!

How on earth can miners destroy the bitcoin system,if you sure feel so, do tell us how they will, miners simply confirm transactions,and there are numerous measures in place to make sure they do not take absolute control of the transaction,other than confirmations and moving it over to the next block

I hell do not see any government in control of the bitcoin,nor ruling body, no insurance company,no headquarters etc...
Thus the bitcoin is definitely decentralized,and only controlled by those in the system
And you're definitely in control of your investments as long as your in control of your private keys

So you honestly think that there are not a handful of whales controlling the price? - if so how is that decentralised? - just another form of control

Well, also bitcoin and other crypto ''currencies'' are not even close of being currencies. Who uses bitcoin for daily transactions? Or any other crypto for that matter? Absolutely no one so of course every time there is a small dump/crash, everyone rushes to sell because no one is interested in holding bitcoin, almost everyone bought for speculative reasons. 

Big whales don't mean it's not decentralized, it just means we little players are at the whims of the whales. But for practical results to most of us it is no different than having a strong centralized coin so yeah the original poster's summary is mostly correct from my point of view. However, we all know that for true decentralization to be a reality then adoption must be worldwide and from the masses, not just whales. In that case future whale movement will have ripples not tsunamis.

Promise? What promise? A decentralized system doesn't have an authority to promise you something.

They come and hated bitcoin all of a sudden.
Well, that is for new buyers of crypto currencies.

But for those who really believed in bitcoin since the start do not even have a problem of what is happening now.
They are still at profit. A lot of it. Just simply putting faith into bitcoin made it happen.

I think that kind of attitude is lost by now. Never seen one after the fall from 20k USD to this. They are all just mad of what the market tells.  ;D

I do not think whales control the market but can influence it. They bank in human emotions and reactions.
A whale can not make the market go down but can spread FUD and this causes panic and makes traders sell at lower prices.
If we were less driven by emotions there control would be not be as effective.

A decentralized system that was still made by someone and currently still being updated by other people, so yeah, there were ''promises'' in a way.

Decentralization allows everyone to centralize the thing in question, if they have enough power and influence to do that. It's the Law of The Strongest.

The whales control the market, but they have to drop coins on the market to keep controlling it. Then there is a chance for new people to balance things, buying the coins the whales drop and increasing their own influence.

The same with miners: if it's not being interesting for the currently miners they will shut off their equipments, but it will become interesting for new people that may replace them on the mining function.

Looking at the events since last one week between Ver and Wright, just adding up to my belief that today's incident is completely pre-plotted. Ver and Wright had plotted this situations long back and Wright declaring himself as Satoshi, is part of the game plan! Also Sharkpool's attack on the network raises a lot of eyebrows as they rose into prominence.

Probably a high level enquiry would reveal a lot of inside story but I honestly think that, it is not going to stay for a long time! It's about time and the market will rebound to its previous position shortly! Until then, we have to take some beatings!!

First of all you were not promised anything. Maybe is this just your imagination or lack of knowledge or information but who do you think exactly made some promis to you?
Bitcoin still is decentralized cryptocurrency, no matter what some conspiracy theories say. Yes, whales have some influence on the market but you can't blaim them for everything that is happening on the market, like the latest dump.
I know that bitternes is talking out of you but try to be rational and don't blaim Bitcoin or others for bad decisions or losses that might have happened to you.

Bitcoin is alive and still maintains the possibility of decentralisation in a way Bcash/BCH/Bwhatever has now completely given up on.

There certainly is a lot of centralisation but it hasn't usurped everything. It can go either way in the future but one thing will become increasingly clear and that's decentralisation is the one and only reason it has any value.

If it's knowingly and visibly threatened then you'll see one heck of a fight before it's over.

Decentralization isn't a myth.  Look at where the Ripple and the XRP ledger was just 14 months ago compared with today.  Currently Ripple only controls 7% of the network and in a year from now it will be closer to ZERO.  With all the XRP locked in escrow and only releasing 1 B for sale each month they are stewards of XRP but have very little control over it.  I personally like that the founders hold their XRP and use it for charitable causes.  They want XRP to succeed just as much as I did when I bought last year after a month of intense research at .18.  Given where they are on the roadmap to delivering the Internet of Value worth many Trillions of dollars its current price is extremely low.  Not too late.  Oh and also, the bit about it being a bankers coin is definitely a myth.  Reducing friction in international payments does more good for the $2/day migrant workers around the world getting hammered on remittence fees than it does for Wall Street.  If you try to send $500 to Mexico now you'll pay $20 or more in fees and it takes 3-5 days with no transparency.  Ripple, powered with XRP as a tool will bring a 3-5 second near-instant settlement where they can get $499 instead.  Theoretically you should have been able to do that with BTC but unfortunately it doesn't scale and it would cost you $10-30 to send that money now and the person still has to wait hours.  Certainly better but just not good enough.  Good luck to all.    

What is so significant about 1000 USD? It's not some important point. The only thing about it is that it's a round number and that faketoshi is talking about it. That narcissist shouldn't be taken seriously, so you can really stop talking about him. He has some money and is throwing it away to prove that his coin will achieve anything, but it won't. The moment exchanges allow it to be traded will be the moment people dump it to 50% of ABC's price (whatever that will be). With how things are going BCH will go to $100 and SV to $50. I couldn't care less.

Not only do miners confirm transactions but also they have absolute control on the transaction. They are playing a crucial role in crypto market and they can use this power for their behalf. Also, there are whales who speculate the market. For now, we should accept that crypto currencies are very far away from their ideal role imagined by Satoshi. Even though possibility to see a truely decentralized system which is used in transactions and payments is decreased, I'm in the hope that is still possible.

I think that those who started it understand this. I think it's not about BCH. This is definitely not in their interests Roger Ver. He is not stupid and understands that the market after such a fall for a long time will not be able to stand up.

What makes you think these guys could force the price down to $1,000? It's not like Wright has access to Satoshi coins or anything. ;)

I think you're giving this BCH drama way too much credit. They're not leading Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies in general. They're just drama queens and megalomaniacs. Let them mine at a loss -- one side or the other will give up. And as usual, Bitcoin will keep moving along like nothing ever happened.

I honestly believe so too. They are part of the rigged system starting when btc and crypto in general attracted the light for those usual monsters in the traditional financial system. Big bucks lure those wannabes to have this stuff acted childlishly in the open and it gives alot of shame to the community then will redeem afterwards when all have taken their position at the bottom.

I'm telling you that there's going to be a dump in december. bitcoin has lived up to what it promised: immutability.

The language the OP uses is just wrong and actually shows that there are
people out there who are maybe a bit misled as to what bitcoin was created
to do, what it has morphed into and the general workings surrounding it.

As others have pointed out, there was and is no promise.
"How the people will have control of their money" well we all have control of
our own bitcoin regardless of its FIAT value.

I cannot see bitcoin going as low as $1000, the buy orders for cheap coins
would kick in long before it got that low.

What do you mean by " Going to be dump in December? ", And besides dumping coins in the market can be happen at any moment, this is all what I observed being here in this business as well.  And for me, I don't believed that Bitcoin will go down again in 1000$, because of its decentralization why bitcoin has a high capability to bounce again one day.Lets just wait see on the right time. Just, hold! :)

Yeah we have you know Hitler, Stalin and George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Nicholas Maduro and the Obamas.

Well, I think the "promise" was to replace fiat in a low cost and fast p2p payment system. That has failed to materialize in any meaningful way. Don't get me wrong, it still can happen. Just that it has not happened yet and the general public has not embraced bitcoin as a fiat replacement.
Decentralized just means that no one entity has control or large influence on the network. An entity could be a government, a company, a group, or a single person.

Ripple?

Who is blaming Bitcoin? - its nothing but an dam algorithm. Rather than putting the Mr superiority hat on try and understand that what is happening to Bitcoin right now is the reason why its survival is in crisis. Its not about nit picking its just a fact that is pissing many people of.

Please do not come back with the I know more than you attitude. I am expressing an emotion felt by many right now. Yes you are correct there is no promise and there was no promise - everyone takes there own risk with Bitcoin which I do understand. My point is that the infighting and the childish behavior of so many people in the crypto community is what will inhibit its general adoption. Like it or not most people are in Bitcoin for investment and making money and not some idealistic free the world notion.

I feel you also as an investor with BTC. All of my hard earn money will be put to waste and I had some regrets already on why I had invested this kind of system though I know that there is a high risk in investing BTC. Thus, I never thought that it is really indeed a high risk. I was just only thinking about entrusting my money to someone and getting a digital coin in return which in real life it could never had its used. After that the real struggle started as the BTC market price fall down for more.  

Thanks - that is exactly my point. Yes we all know the risks and we take them. What people have to realise is that the destruction like what we are seeing again can only happen so many times before what I believe will destroy Bitcoin. Not that many Bitcoin investors are libertarians or idealists that are only thinking about the freeing the world. No they are everyday people that hurt when they lose their money and they don't need people giving them lectures on what they need to understand.

Whatever happened to the crypto market today, personally. I still believe that bitcoin is decentralized. Because in my opinion, no one can fully control bitcoin. The fall in bitcoin prices this year, because there are too many negative issues regarding bitcoin

Yes

made? No. It was proposed. Anyone could volunteer to 'make it' and many are still 'making it'.

someone? How do you know it is 'someone' and not 'some group of people'.

updated by other people. Yes. So? You can be one of those 'other people'. And if the existing 'other people' does not accept your recommendation, you can always create your own implementation and see if there is enough people supporting it.

so yeah, there were ''promises'' in a way. So, NO. There were no ''promises'' in any way.

I must say by your topic you where not involved in cryptocurrency by last year of you where you would have a different notion. This year has generally not lived up to the expectations

what was promised to you? to me was promised one way of making money, maybe being decentralized to at least some point and it's a nice technology, I mean, I know it's the biggest scams out here, because of the manipulation, but tell me, what is fair in this world, where will you get the thing as promised? are you joking? do you think they care about your well fare? they only want to feed bitcoin and scam people who are buying bitcoin at 18000$ or 10000$...

I know the risks, if you weren't warned about them, then you should read more about it... Here I'm being honest to you.

Yeah just like anyone can volunteer to be the president of the United States. You can be one of them if you know what you are doing just like politicians, 99.99% of the crypto community do not have enough knowledge to be one of them.

You seem to have confused the basics of centralization & decentralization. If you disagree with US president, you can't fork the US. But, if you disagree with the lead maintainer of Bitcoin Core, you can fork the Bitcoin Chain.