Bitcoin Forum

Think about it, big investor ready to put in billions, you slowly buy, buy, buy, a little bit but their definition, then dump it all at once, just enough to get it below support and freak everyone out. Then dump, then you buy in big time and pump.  Any evidence of this? Any evidence of who started the sale to cause this?

Another thought, this looks to me a lot like Nasdaq in 2008:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8558257.stm

It's just that because the internet has sped everything up, we've had ten years worth of growth compressed into one year. Amazing how similar people are behaving in this situation.

Anyway, I'm bullish.. thoughts?

completely agreed! big-shots are already playing in the market and in this dip they will buy more. Just like stock market games.

Institutional investors. Wall Street bonuses. ETFs. Chinese New Year. Thanksgiving. Black Friday. Christmas. We've heard nonsense like this pretty much on a weekly basis all year.

We've also seen charts comparing bitcoin to bitcoin in 2014, to gold, to dotcom, to whatever you like. Past performance does not predict future results, and past performance of something completely different to bitcoin like gold or dotcom definitely does not predict future results.

I'm completely bullish long-term for crypto, but posts like this are really getting old.

Sigh. You sound pretty hopeful. :-\

Based on conventional trading wisdom, this will probably go deeper. There's a lot of bagholding buyers pressuring price down. Since the downtrend just started last week, and the previous range took months to establish, it'll probably be several weeks at least before we see a major bottom.

Short term bounces aside, I think we're going to see the $3,000s.

If that is going to happen then we may lost huge reputation of bitcoin which was built up for last 10 years will be gone with the name of bubbles.Hopefully it won't go that much far because we already can see the market and investors looks helpless other than with the hope of price will increase in this new year.What if that not happens?Maybe the funeral of cryptos :'(

I agree, but still I think that OP may be somewhat correct.
The dump is too big, too steep, it smells like somebody wants to achieve something, not somebody that cash in some gains or has to get liquidity.

interesting theory but this is not a new thing so I don't think any new entity is doing it. for years we have had whales in the market which we can all "opportunists" who have been performing things like what you explained: dumping enough to cause panic and break resistances then buy cheaper and accumulate. rinse and repeat to increase their size as a whale.
and right now with all the shitcoin fork drama that is going on over in the altcoin market bitcoin whales are taking that as an opportunity to do the same as they always do: buy cheaper coins.

Not only that, it could be a long-term plan. I created Why is Bitcoin so stable in price after a big drop? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5024861.0) back in September:
This stable price more or less continued until a few days ago, when the big price drop started.

This could be the rigth moment for institutional investors to join the game.
Honestly, at first I didn't think that the price will go below 5000$ in this dip but on the other hand it makes sense.
The upcoming week and situation on the market will give us answers. Still I don't believe that some big conspiracy theory is standing behind current price correction.

Seems we're reaching despair level.
It's like falling in a ravine with your car and cheering up when you're hitting the bottom since you won't fall anymore  ;D

Over the last months, I've seen thousands of potential saviors of bitcoin, the ones you mentioned, bakkt, adoption in Venezuela, Nigeria, Iran and so on, but the truth is that we're deep in bear territory and wishful thinking won't change much.

The "cheap coins" stuff is so yesterday!!!


It's steep percentage wise but in terms of $ lost per coin price we've seen worse. After all, this is just (lol!) a 2000 drop, in January we dropped 6000 in a week.

I'm buying 100 Bitcoins at $200 if it comes to that. I regret I didn't do it 3 years ago, so if I get another chance, I'll take it.
Until then: I'm neither buying nor selling.

The "reputation" you are talking about has nothing to do with the bitcoin price.
Bitcoin/blockchain is still rock solid and it's reputation won't be damaged by a price crash.
The BTC price is determined by hype and investor's expectations about future profits.When all this is gone,the price just goes down.

Slowly and quietly putting buy orders at 200.78  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The price of Bitcoin at the moment can be said to be at a low point and this can be an opportunity to buy Bitcoin at a cheap price. But prices may decline again, but prices may stop at this time and then prices continue to rise. We must take risks and we must make decisions quickly. When we are late, we are likely to lose a good mlmentum for profit.

Cool story. Please tell me: how many Bitcoins did you buy today?

well first of all this is bitcoin we are talking about, you don't need to wait for the order book to fill up, it fills up in half a day, or in 24 hours tops and doesn't change that much afterwards.
the stability lasted a lot longer than that.

secondly when price becomes stable, traders leave the market. and their leaving means they take their money out of the market. and that means less bids in the order book so if someone was really doing that, they were clearly seeing order books thinning instead of filling up.

I'm in a similar camp. I have as much financial exposure to crypto as I am comfortable with. Crypto makes up only a small proportion of my overall portfolio, and I am not planning to change that anytime soon. If bitcoin prices become ridiculously cheap, in the absence of something catastrophic happening, then I would consider cashing out some bonds or stocks and increasing the crypto proportion of my portfolio by a few percentage points.

Until that happens, I am doing nothing. It it crashes to zero I'll be bummed out, but my quality of life and future financial plans won't be affected.

This seems to be so harsh expecting the bottom is $3,000 .it thats the case maybe we will be dropping the market capitalization upto $100 billions?or mybe even lower?
But what matters most is the small investors like us,will never leave bitcoin and will continue to hold even many are selling

I am not too sure which ones will get in later in the year but I think all of them are already getting into this right now.

Any smart investor would know that the correct price for bitcoin is not these levels, definitely can't be sustained here, the miners would be destroyed and than the amount of miners will get less which would make others get into mining which would cause the mining to go back up for a full circle which means this price is not sustainable, it will definitely go back up. So, as any smart investor would do they are buying as much as they can afford, look at the volume right now, they are obviously getting as much as they possible could while Craig and others are selling.

Craig is basically explaining everyone why he doesn't think the buying/selling part of bitcoin is wrong which shows he is the one selling. For short, there is a crazy person selling a lot of bitcoin and dropping the price, and institutional investors are already buying as much as they can afford.

I don't think so. If anything, they are still prepping the environment for their entry, and they would do it on the sidelines and not directly (ETFs) wherein the risk is always high. Manipulation is easy when you have loads of money, and institutional investors can do that, but knowing that there are certain eyes and ears that are directed towards bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, I doubt they'd be doing it in such an obvious manner. I'm also bullish all the way but right now, I honestly wouldn't recommend anyone to buy unless their wallets can bear the losses. I'm eyeing at $3200 bottom and if it gets lower than that, I'm definitely going to buy loads again.

The big problem is that so far we have not had disastrous news to justify this dump. Of course, we have several news that justify a dump, but they do not indicate a disaster. They do not indicate that the price should reach 1000USD.

Something like Japan prohibits trading. Last year we had CHINA banned and Bitcoin resisted. Many were expecting a drop below 1000USD, and they had reason to expect something like that, however, it only went up after a minor fix.

So, much more than great reasons, what we see is a demotivated market. Most people are thinking of selling while they still have some profit or to reduce their losses.

In that 1 year, Bitcoin only managed to correct errors that had, but did not advance to become a means of payment disruptive. And none of those thousands of ICOs and new projects was capable of anything really disruptive. No new niche has emerged. Increase in value just because a lot of people want is not a good justification for a new technology.

Investors will only invest if cryptocurrencies prove they will be used

Im bullish too, I thought the same.  Those who have a huge amount of money and have big holdings of BTC are behind this probably, see how the socialmedia, miners, news took part on this price drop.  There is actually no reason for Bitcoin to go down unless it is manipulated.  If you look at the previous news, it is so bullish until this BCH war occurs.

It's probably the other way around for most people: if it skyrockets, their financial plans are (positively) affected. It's one of the reasons to HODL.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm holding long-term. If we do go way up, I'll be taking profits and using them to improve my quality of life - probably paying off my mortgage and either building an extension or potentially moving house in the first instance. But I'm not over invested and so I don't need to panic about every fluctuation in the market. If I hold all the way to zero, well that's unfortunate, but life will go on unaffected.

BAKKT is coming December 12th. We may keep falling down for the rest of November and we may bounce again for Christmas propelled by BAKKT. Remember that BAKKT is backed by the underlying asset (so in this case, they need to buy actual bitcoin). It's only a matter of time and someone with big pockets may see this dip to below $5k as a lifetime opportunity to enter in bigly. If I was 100% on fiat I wouldn't gamble and I would start buying monthly no matter how low it goes, because it can revert at any time and you would miss the boat.

No, that's an illusion based on a snapshot of two markets with different time scales on the X axis.  The internet can't speed up investor behavior like you're thinking.

Agree completely, and I'm sure I've said the same thing, probably verbatim, in the past on this forum.  I think a lot of people on bitcointalk are probably in their 20s and don't have much experience with markets or, if they're older, never had any education about finance and markets and haven't yet learned that past patterns tell you nothing about future patterns--in any market, not just crypto.  This is why I'm anti-TA and feel like I'm surrounded by pro-TA people.

There's no evidence of any of that.  Nobody knows who's buying what, although from the few news articles I've read it does seem like there's institutional interest in crypto these days--but I've seen no data about how much of any given coin is being bought, so it could all be hogwash.

BAKKT is delayed until January 24, 2019:

I don't think that we're at a stage yet where investors care about usage, because there wasn't all that much usage last year during the bull run and there still isn't right now.

I actually wish investors invested based on utility and usage, because if that was the case, utter trash coins wouldn't be worth billions and ICO's wouldn't manage to collect hundreds of millions during the peak of the hype. The fact that EOS raised $4 billion worth of Ether, and then blatantly cashed out $1 billion of that to fiat "to invest in companies building on EOS", you know that something is fundamentally wrong.

That actually explains a lot. I really thought crypto went back to its lunatic state, which it did, but this seems to have been insider trading that started it off. I was intentionally avoiding news so I would have missed that one.

The more people being aware of BAKKT delaying their futures platform, the more people will instantly consider current sell-off to be manipulation, which could help to reduce the panic for a moment.

It might also stimulate people to stop caring about the Bcash drama, because they aren't anything other than a tiny drop of fuel in the currently bloody oversold market, and not the main cause.

$3,000 really isn't that bad. It's painful I know, but it would still be less harsh than some past bear markets like 2014 and 2011. The important thing is that we don't overlap the peak of a previous cycle. Breaking below $1,200 would suggest the end of the historic bull trend.


Why does the BAKKT delay signify that the current sell-off is manipulation?

I believe that another group of investors that are going to control and manipulating cryptocurrencies market is about to be emerge.  Institutionalized investors are going to buy now as most of them feel left out with the formal whales that controls cryptocurrencies market. If you like to be among the next holder of some coins now is the right time to buy.

Institutional investors don't understand bitcoin, they'd never get in a falling market. They'd probably join back at $21k.

The price dip is only a sign that this is still a very volatile market and we're not entitled to a stable market as the technology clearly isn't ready to meet demand yet.

Conspiracy theories like this can only shake your faith in something real. There is something really pathetic about blaming the price drop on manipulation. Nobody can force you to sell. If there was real demand for bitcoin right now, you bet you could sell it, or use it at a higher price than the exchanges regardless of anyone trying to drop the price.

In fact all the people trying to short bitcoin would just burn their money and lose all their coins in that scenario.

Another fact is that institutional investors would create their own coins, probably with central control, they would keep talking about blockchain and how bitcoin is based on the blockchain and how their coin is better because it has refunds enabled. When the price goes back up that's the response I expect.

They don't have to understand Bitcoin. They know how the market cycles work and they also know what to do to profit at maximum from those cycles.
The ones that want to diversify their portfolio into crypto did buy Bitcoin and will buy more during the current phase.

I'd be glad to hear that such investors also buy in at $21k because that'd mean Bitcoin would reach at least $25k afterwards.

I remember the time when bitcoin got dump from $4900 to $2800 last year then a bull run start which reaches up to $19,000. What happening right now is very similar on what happened last year but who knows right? Only those who have power over money have the ability to decide when will this market goes. I am still bullish with this red market because a large amount of buyers always waiting for this moment to come.

Well, that would have been a reality if Bakkt has not delayed their launch and one way or the other, I just feel like generally, institutions are basically just trying to play with the market and the emotions of people, even with the whole Bakkt thing and with the way things are going, I would not be surprised we will keep moving like this until next year maybe.

Nonetheless, no one really cares, whether they get to tap the market down the more, or another rally starts, what is important is to know the potential of what you are holding and stick to it. As things are going now, I would not be surprised to see $3k, but the question is, would this actually be the bottom or not? I guess time will tell.

I don't believe this is an indicator of institutional investors being ready and waiting. There would be word of mouth with such a thing and a price rise from leaked information before any significant announcements. Such insider trading always occurs as rumor spreads etc, there's no smoke, hence there's no fire.

Its not the institutional investors that are causing price to crash, this is basically bitcoin in general.

How many times did Bitcoin crash in the past? Was there any bitcoin institutional investors in 2011? 2012? Maybe a couple in 2013? But that's still speculation.

It went up too fast from $1000 at the beginning of 2017, and its still correcting and finding its price almost 2 years later. The point is just to remain calm and not panic sell.

At the moment, experts are advising traders to stop their mind and just wait. Hold is best strategy that will work for almost every single scenario. Because selling in this season could make you a big loser.

Rather than a lot of people seeing the bright picture now, there are basically shitting in their pants out of fear. Institutions with the way I am looking at it, are basically preparing for the Bakkt launch to use it as a catalyst for a rally, and with the way things are going right now, considering the fact that Bakkt launch has been postponed till December, I won't be surprised to see the market dwindle sideways after hitting a huge bottom before then. But of course, we all know institutions will never be picking a market that is high, they will want to drive it as much as they can until they are satisfied for a huge entry, and most of it all, all these is done via the back door.