Bitcoin Forum

Hello everybody!

In the end, it was the bankers who pulled us over the barrel.

https://medium.com/@TokrexOrg_42680/how-the-bankers-make-billions-with-the-bitcoin-crash-d702be198471

Look at that..

It's an age old story. To the finance professionals most of the people in the crypto space are as threatening as puppies and just as experienced.

A very well written article with valid arguments and reasons. Indeed a good read! The process it has described, is very simple.

Banks and brokers have accumulated a lot of bitcoins from their OTC market deals. Now they have bought future contracts with negative outlook and started selling the accumulated bitcoins to crash the market. Simple and effective strategy to make tons of cash!

However, I doubt any regulated banking institutions can do this legally! Shady OTC deals are happening for a long time so can't comment on that! But to bring down the price at this scale, the OTC volume needs to be enormous!

The scenario as described in the article is definitely possible and the way it was written, is very convencing as well. Just thinking about the volume we will require to do such kind of manipulation. Any idea?

Estimate from the TABB Group (in a $5000 report) that OTC crypto markets exceed exchange volumes by 2-3x. That would mean 1-1.5MM BTC is traded OTC *daily*.  That's surely enough to organize a drop like we saw... can u imagine... this f***ers trade 1-1.5MM and bypassing the open market. Normally we should see BTC at 15k with that numbers... It's unbelievable. I had the same feeling... it's indeed a good read.

This is a plausible scenario. What could actually go wrong in an OTC deal wherein two parties both agreed to terms, right? Safe and easy money, with low risk of getting burned: that's what banks do. No remorse on what's going to happen in a market, just fast, cold hard cash is what's important at the end of the day.

What also amazes me the most is how these banks and big money get out of such steamy situations once they got busted, or how things like this still happen in a regulated platform/market/economy? There's so many questions that spring to mind once these certain topics pop up. We all know that banks produce big profits in dirty ways in such a short span of time, but how they keep on doing this for centuries without the public realizing is insane to comprehend.

Isn't OTC is like having a buy wall?


Hope so. There is an issue about this as well because recently etherdelta CEO was accused of operating an illegal exchange for it being decentralized and not registered which as far as I remember he payed about $300k for it. Its possible that they'd also do this to all DEX.

It seems like true decentralization can only be achieved in a utopian society. But when you factor in greed and desire to control you have lots of big players fighting to control enough of it to influence the whole of it.
And the little players suffer the most.

I don't think that this is a strategy that can be infinitely repeated, the larger the currency grows the more they have to own to control it. Eventually we can have a diverse distribution which could easily resist such attacks.

We all knew this was going to happen. It was the smart thing to do if you had a lot of money, enough to move the markets. You put 200 million dollars on the table and you can do anything to a market worth as much as a single company (Amazon).
200 million goes in, starts a bull run. Then you wait for it to unfold, short futures, get some more rich people into play, tell them to short and dump their coins on the same day. That's all it takes. If the market grew bigger it would be harder for them to do this. Maybe if we went to 300 billion...

Buying all the way from 10 000 to 6 000 then dumping it to reach 4500 is a plausible scenario?
Seriously?
And no words on how inevitable all that money that was poured in those buying deals helped prop the price?

I honestly wonder if it's safe to make a fart without somebody coming with a conspiracy theory why the evilz banks are crushing cryptos because of that fart. I've yet to witness a price drop that is not the fault of either banks, wall street, goldman or the reptilians.


Details, details...
The pitchforks were sharpened, the torches are lit, who cares that the ones selling are also the one that bought and raised the price up at that time.
Details...

I'm always amazed how this community swallows up those conspiracy theories like viagra pills.

I have read a lot about OTC now. It is indeed that it bypasses the order book. Neither the sell order nor the buy order appears in the order book. I press on MKT SELL and the order is not made visible to the order book. The exchange pays me directly, so to speak. The collected bitcoin are then sold to the broker. So the broker can place buy orders in a certain range.

That seems to be common practice at Wall Street. Order packages are moved back and forth between liquidity providers. Specifically, they do that for assets that are titled "hard-to-deliver". Assets for which there is little liquidity. There is much more. They lend the same securities several times and so on .. very very interesting inside information is that ..


I guess they were not buying from 10,000 to 6,000.. they can buy in a specific range with OTC e.g. just below 6,500


I agree. I was just too naive to think that would not affect the Bitcoin.

Nope it is not yet the end of bitcoin and it is still starting to get warm up. Just imagine that this is system is like a gambling with the participation of all people around the world. I consider it gambling whatever nerd user here will call about bitcoin as how it shoulf be use but since it does compromise the money of others being invested in cryptocurrency so I guess this is like casino games that until now is still operating.

The speed at which the price went down certainly makes it a plausible explanation. Bankers forcing the price down due to bets on bitmex and other futures trading is typical of their greedy behaviour

I like the idea in the article that big wallets need to be monitored. Such websites should actually be easy to setup by fullnode operators.

I see the following relationship:

* If large amounts of bitcoins flow into the wallets of the big exchanges, then the danger of a price crash increases.Why else whales move their Bitcoins into Exchanges?

* If the wallets of the exchanges become smaller, a price stability is to be expected. Bitcoin buyers are backing up their bitcoins in their private wallets. Means less selling from big whales is to be expected.

I see a new trading indicator :D I am wrong or how do you think about it?

I think we should not be blinded by the pious image of the banks. Look what happened one week ago on the forex market...

"BlackRock and Allianz sue 16 Banks in the U.S. over Currency Market Rigging"

https://btcmanager.com/blackrock-and-allianz-sue-16-banks-in-the-u-s-over-currency-market-rigging/

If they do it in the forex market, they will not be shy doing it in the Cryptos market.

not only in the crypto scope, bankers often do things with the world economy, even though people rarely know about the average and they do this of course indirectly. So the conlusion is the rich will continue to repeat which is more or less the same as the previous pattern until there are no investors or fresh money entering crypto

That is why I think that while this story is probably true for some brokers, I don't think that banks could really get the majority to crush the market like this. I don't think they are smart and organized enough for these things. Such an elaborate plan needs massive cooperation to maximise the effect. Some banks can surely unite, but I don't think that enough of them can and care about cryptos at all. The reason behind the massive drop is BCH ABC and SV split. Bitcoin cash suffered severely because of this, other top coins also gave up their previous positions.

Banks do not need to merge. View the entire asset ownership chain. You will see that all the main banks of the world belong to one group of people.

same with bitcoin exchanges
check out the portfolio

http://dcg.co/portfolio

I do not really believe in this story. The operations described here relate to operations with a high degree of risk, which means banks would be forced to form a reserve for them, and therefore double the financial burden. It’s another thing if we are talking about the owners of banking groups that operate with their personal assets, then it is quite possible.

You believe it collapses? Big banks around the world have their ways of doing things, and many banks are supporting anonymity in the Crypto industry. The market fell without any withdrawal. I believe this is a time of considerable investment.

Chaos is the highest degree of order ..... Therefore, there is nothing in business that is not controlled by a person or a group of people. Therefore, the idea that everything is happening now according to the laws of the market is a profound delusion.

risk is banks putting their funds into other companies which then play against customers funds.
the banks DO do OTC. they only use exchanges for smaller amounts.

the volumes of exchanges cant handle real OTC trade values

Bankers are the smartest con around and the banking institution is the best con system ever used! Banks have been playing the monetary system for almost three centuries. They have now directed their radar towards the cryptosystem as they have seen and realized its potential to generate massive profit. These bankers are the whales (along with their government puppets) and we are just ridin' the waves!

Bankers will never give up the money. They will always support the banking system, as it gives the opportunity to control and pressure. The crypt interests bankers not only as a source of additional profit. Having missed the crypt market, they risk losing some of their influence. Perhaps it is more scary for them than the loss of part of the profits.

The idea in the article is very interesting. Not meaningless. We need to think. It is a pity that now there are no real ideas about the possibility of a crypt from a strong third-party influence

If this is true then we can all play along too.

But the game  wouldn't end in bitcoin, the cryptocurrencies will still be here to make banks irrelevant one day. Thier plan to destroy btc isn't going to succeed as long as there is blockchain. In any condition, blockchain will survive and this is why we see more ads of banks n TV these days.

It remembers me to how some people shorted the big 2008 crash haha, I just hope the next bull run don't take ages to come :S

The real owners of the banking system don't need to make money off bitcoin.  They essentially have unlimited money because all they have to do is type numbers into a computer.  The current monetary system in place has made people into slaves.  As long as people are brainwashed into thinking the dollar has value it will be business as usual.

They do not put in the forefront the task of making money on Bitcoin. I think their goal is to control the process.
If you can't win - become a leader

This was always expected when bitcoin crashed. I believe OTC market have always exploited traders since it is very difficult to trade your bitcoin for fiat currency through the various exchanges. One can also make enough profit through the escrow services but most of these escrow services mostly turn out to be scammers so in the end, the bankers always win.

Thank you for discussing our article. Meanwhile, a Russian YouTuber has taken up the topic. Here is the link to his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuUZmMwGKE0&t=0s



We believe that there is a solution. The decentralized exchange. In our opinion, we are still about a year away until the decentralized exchange will prevail. Tokrex is working on a high-speed DEX with real-time cross-chain-swaps. Here is our BitcoinTalk thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5078085.0

Your support and your feedback are welcome. Currently, there is an AirDrop.

I agree, now maybe if there are still those who say that bitcoin and the crypto market are not controlled by a group of people or groups and only markets that randomly know the ups and downs of prices, then we actually turn a blind eye, some people including me are still convinced that all there are those that control the market price, they make a statement as if the market doesn't know so people don't panic when they want to enter crypto, because if they find out there are people behind this crypto business, they will definitely stay away including big companies

Bankers earn, because they understand the laws of the market. They understand finance. And ignorant people lose money because of their ignorance and unwillingness to learn.

They buy now at a very low price...

I'm not so convinced about that. This story about bankers and Bitcoin sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me. Bankers behind Bitcoin like a group of people who is controlling it -  I'm not buying it. Some would even say that the latest price dump is bankers' fault.
I'm not saying that banks are not interested in Bitcoin and blockchain technology but their influence on the market and especialy the latest events is not such as some might imagine.

I do not agree that only bankers understand the laws of the market and finance.
"Let me manage the money of the country, and I do not care who creates its laws."

Interesting. When it comes to bankers, many people think they are angels. A suit and tie is everything you need to impress people. Let's quote yesterday's news paper "Deutsche Bank hit by second day of money laundering raids". No, no! Bankers never do something illegal. That's ironic :)

the bankers are the big losers of the cryptoboom, they lose all their power.

what people dont realise is that the "bankers" are these guys
www.dcg.co/portfolio

what they are doing is behind the exchanges they control
EG
bitflyer       changetip      coinsetter
bitoasis      circle             genesis
bitpesa       coinbase       itbit
bitso          coinhouse      korbit
bitwala       coinjar          kraken
buda          coins.ph        luno
......and thats just half the alphabet

they are OTC trading using reserves behind many other platforms
EG
Altonomy, Atlantic Financial, Bitbank, Bitfinex, Bitmax, BitMEX, Bitso, BTCBOX, BTSE, Buull Exchange, DGroup, Coinone, Crypto Garage, GOPAX (operated by Streami), Korbit, L2B Global, OKCoin, The Rock Trading, SIX Digital Exchange, Unocoin, Xapo, XBTO, and Zaif.

to arbitrage coins and fiat between these exchanges using a blockstream service, a variant of LN called liquid

https://blockstream.com/2018/10/10/liquid-launch/

I answered earlier to a thread that contains a good video about it. If Bitcoin is really a shit asset, then why do they invest in Bitcoin, directly or indirectly? I am talking about banks (like JPMorgan did), institutions, and large investors.
And this is what they're doing, buying cheap coins and they will make a lot of profits with for the long run.

banksters are idiots they constantly just gamble with money, its time to get rid of them, they certainly have rather caused bitcoins spike rather then the drop.

Banks or investment institution will always make profits from people who can not hold their finger and panic people. Banks buying bitcoin and others digital asset at cheap price. Better keep patient and hold our coin for long term

And do not forget, WE ARE going to see bitcoin touching the all time high again, those people are greedy enough to manipulate the market again to earn the double, or even triple.
Bitcoin can be easily manipulated, and they do not care about anything.
So we can expect more from those greedy bankers.

bankers are doomed it doesnt matter weather bitcoin is successful or not

Bankers will always be profitable))) They will only change the financial machine.

I am sure that they have earned on this but trust me you can still earn good money

Not just in Bitcoin but also in other crypto ,
Now I understand why there are some crypto that is being dump without a trace in some decentralized exchange.

What's your strategy? You are trading?

It's a mess with the bankers. We should finally get rid of them.

Thanks to Franky1. Here is the follow-up article:


https://medium.com/@TokrexOrg_42680/how-banks-have-assimilated-the-crypto-community-245b320581ac

Im in awe!

That is some article posted by the OP. It makes shocking reading but after
thinking it over im not surprised. There have been allegations of market
manipulation and this proves it.

This is probably one of the most important threads on the forum all of a
sudden i think.

A lot of conspiracies are swaming the cryptophere, hopefully one day we will hear the full details of how the big players have been manipulating bitcoin to their favour.

The current collapse of Bitcoin is creating a domino effect with so many investors leaving Crypto. Banks are trying to buy Bitcoin silently, and no one knows this. Only a few pumps operate back into these investments, giving them a huge profit.

Exactly. In fact, the crypto community must return to their original ideas. We did a big hoo-ha about Bakkt, ETFs and so on. The result was zero. And secretly, the bankers crept in here. That's a scandal. Everyone needs to know about it!

I believe, most people here expect ETFs to be approved immediately. Because, more or less it will have an influence on the process of global adoption of bitcoin

how do you know that "banks" are buying bitcoin? do you have some sort of proof of this claim?
because it seems unlikely to me because you and I may be able to hide the fact that we are buying bitcoin but a bank can not do that easily. like JP Morgan last year which was revealed after they spread FUD. but so far I don't see any indication of what you claim.
there are whales who are doing this though but they have been doing it for years to increase their stakes in bitcoin.

That's the bad thing about OTC. There is no general ledger. Banks are divided into hundreds of investment vehicles. If they Bitcoin buy, then certainly not in their own name. Only if it fits in with their strategy. That must have been a very big whale that can sell off 50% of the market capitalization. I believe that using the word "whale" means that someone can not explain who is behind it. I just read both articles and I think it's a plausible scenario.

A few days ago I was reading an investigative article on Cum-Ex business of the banks. Anyone who believes that banks regulate their business and only do good business is wrong. The problem is that they are already in government. It's a sad world.

I think that everything that is written in the articles is true and banks control most of the cryptocurrency, which makes it manageable and it is very bad . Now banks are buying bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies at a low price , then to sell at high and make huge profits .

I share your opinion.

And I. Therefore, I support the project Tokrex, which should eliminate this situation

Questions need answers from a long time
  Dirty money controls many of the policies of states and some huge entities
Do not rule out the involvement of major banking entities in such a plan.