Bitcoin Forum

According to CNBC, federal prosecutors had launched a criminal probe into the cryptocurrencies earlier this year based on suspicions that their price was being manipulated. I think it might be the main reason behind the price of bitcoin dropping to around $4000, but I also wonder whether it could be that authorities are afraid that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are taking over the financial system since they're now so popular.

The price keeps nose diving because there are more sellers than buyers. Why are there more sellers than buyers? Because there hasn't been much positive (if any) news about Bitcoin for most of the year...people are bored.


What prosecutors? What criminal probe? In what country? When you speak in such generalities you don't help us engage in your discussion.

everything is much easier. I think that the manipulators decided to push the market very well down and do not need to invent anything else

Just added the link from CNBC that talks about that criminal probe by the U.S (https://www.c[Suspicious link removed]m/2018/11/20/regulators-investigate-whether-bitcoin-price-was-propped-up-illegally.html). DOJ because apparently the authorities suspect that there was foul play involved in the value of bitcoin being propped up for the past year. As I said, the probe started earlier this year, unbeknownst to many including me who are frequent users of bitcoin and other digital currencies.

He must be talking about that article that I saw somewhere about prosecutors going after Bitfinex again for tether manipulation. While I'd like tether to just disappear because there's too much stink hovering around it, people going after tether is not people going after Bitcoin otr cryptocurrencies in general.

They are afraid that crypto's are going to take over fiat/financial system? I guess so but that's too early to assume that they are into it. The price is diving due to many panic sellers are adding the flock and this creates the force that gives these big institutions to have that taste of victory for buying the cheapest that they can. I think they are just waiting for more but once there's already a buying signal, we will see that the market will climb quickly.

But what's important is that people don't stop using bitcoin. It would be a huge win for corporations. However, at this point who knows what's going to happen.

The cryptocurrency market is not so big as to pose a threat to the global financial system. As for the manipulations, they are. But if we look at the situation in the world as a whole, we will see that the markets are falling. Therefore, the fall of cryptocurrency is predictable.

I don't think the financial system fears cryptocurrencies that much as no decentralised coin has been favoured or backed up by any central organisation. I think its more to do with the fear amongst the holders and liquidating their investments.

Fake news affect bitcoin price ddown
Bad news affect bitcoin price down
Whales maniiptlation affect bitcoin price down
And especially volatile fluctuations
All the above are basis why bitcoin price falling down according from people analysis
But until now there nothing to proof how really true that is the main reason of bitcoin fall down
For me the reason why bitcoin fall down because is affeted of world economic crisis
People need to survive making money in bad ways

I also read that the world economic growth will be at a standstill in 2019, which is not good news for the digital economy. Hopefully, people will keep using cryptos to prevent their decline at a very crucial time.

Institutional investors tend to sell when they hear news of potential criminal action.

Just be grateful that none of those ETFs were approved - we'd have had a tsunami of retail selling as well!

Because Bitcoin price isn't ready to start pumping it yet, and.. Bakkt has been delayed to January so there are not good news for anyone.

What you said concerning the Federal prosecutors maybe one of the reason why the market is facing a down trend and we both know that the price of every crypto currencies are manipulated sometimes but crypto market correction usually happen the next year when an ATH has achieved. However, I can assure you that nothing the probe which was to be launched by the federal prosecutors can really to stop market manipulation.

The DOW is also nose diving - look it up.

Fact is the US government is 22 TRILLION dollars in debt and all US households are another 12 TRILLION dollars in debt.  Add that up and consider how wealthy America really is.

You guessed it, not wealth at all and you can thank our Democrat socialism for that.

the drop started only because of the FUD and panic of the altcoin fork called bitcoin-cash and that has been harming the stability of bitcoin price ever since. and when the price enters lower values by breaking a strong buy support the drop becomes bigger because the support below that line is no longer strong and the panic is also added to the mix until it reaches another strong buy support. that is why the drop has been like this so far.

Bitcoin's value keeps going down because there are many sellers than buyers. People are panicking because of this so they dump their holdings afraid that they might lose more when it goes down even further. Yes, even more bad news and negativity around cryptocurrency also affect the price of altcoins.

bitcoin have many years since its creation and its price has gone up a lot and fallen a lot, I do not know because only now they started to want to investigate about a possible manipulation of prices and many exchanges are not in the USA and do not have license since that still an unregulated market, this is all very difficult.


I do not believe that is the reason for the fall in prices

Your argument is invalid.....

Debt added "Change in debt as a percentage of GDP"

#1: Bush 43 (Republican)
#2: Obama (Democrat)
#3: Reagan (Republican)
#4: Bush 41 (Republican)
#5: Ford (Republican)

Yeah blame the democrat because he invested in social welfare and not war ::)

I guess some people are just disappointed with the price now expecting for it to go up just like last year during this time but then the opposite happened and it keeps going down. With this kind of market, some I believe already gave up and sell their coins with no plans of turning back again. Some panic sell seeing the price continuously go down. With the news about the fork of bitcoin cash, others sell their bitcoin for bitcoin cash to have the free coins and then the price wasn't able to recover.

Well we can see that there are FUD everywhere and the one that will give Bitcoin a breather is moved till next year of Jan.  Isn't this obvious?  The market is somehow being manipulated, probably a huge entity wants it to buy at its lowest and created an issue and confusion that started during the BCH war and they are successful in shaking weak hands.  In short, an upsurge of Bitcoin supply that is on sell wall overwhelm the buy order and sadly those who are buying adjusted their buy order to gain more profit when it is fulfilled.

Okay, you don't believe that the DOJ's investigation on cryptos price allegedly being manipulated is the reason for the fall in prices? Then, give me your argument.

Exactly! It is a market and as long as there is no demand to really hold it up, things like this will continue. Moreover, there is no doubt the market is prone to manipulation, based on the reality that this is an unregulated decentralized space, so one way or the other, we might just have to consider the fact that the institutions are doing their bit, based on the market being new and speculative, to keep driving the weak hands out of the market for as long as they can, until maybe we finally hit mainstream adoption as well as possible real life usage.

I don't think it had anything to do with this criminal probe. This was actually already discussed a few months back and the market already knew about it. Same with the BAKT delay, there were many ETF delays and ETF denials which resulted in no price action.

Same with the hash wars that is going on with the BCH ABC and BCH SV, I highly doubt the real satoshi is selling his BTC to fund miners on Nicehash.

It crashed because many had a stop loss <$6000 or $5800 and it created a domino effect and also it was very sudden and came as a surprise to most.

Not only there is a hash war going on but also that causes a lot of sell from people who are afraid of losing money once again.

I have talked with someone in a telegram group who bought bitcoin at around 19 thousand dollar prices and kept his bitcoin until it was about 12 thousand dollars, thankfully he sold it during 12 thousand dollars to prevent further drop in price, which is still a loss and a bad thing but at least he realized his losses and now is not at 4 thousand dollars.

Well, I wish he wasn't. He rebought all he can afford at around 6.2 thousand dollar levels thinking that was the low and now the price is even lower, he sold it during 4.4 thousand dollar levels thinking it will go even further. As you can see people keep panic selling no matter how many times they lose to the whales. That single big fall creates a huge wave of sell orders.

Still, many banks and governments are incited to make money more digital. My thought is that we're probably going to face a situation similar to what happened with regard to Lehman Brothers: There's a high risk for Bitcoin to sink, but the rest of the cyber-currencies will be saved.

There definitely could be concerns with that which led to prices plummeting. There may also be reasons behind this dump regarding the hard fork of other cryptos, they are all factors.

But honestly, if these news came out in a bullish sentimented environment, I really doubt that prices would be affected this much. Only in a bear market do these news stick around and result in a panic dump, because weak hands who are merely speculating on the market to make a quick buck don't have the fear of missing out to buy into bitcoin anymore, like in a bull market. The cycles of the BTC market which has been shown countless times is the ultimate reason behind all these price dips imo.

TBH, a price recovery seems very unlikely this year, but could happen in the next year after prices bottom out at $3-4k and move sideways a bit. Shouldn't be concerned at all though if you're holding for the long run, which I think most people here are doing. Short term dumps like these have absolutely no impact on how bitcoin adoption (both institutional and individual) and usage will go in the long term.

I think the price is heavily manipulated and the interest of people buying Bitcoin has been decrease, I think it's because the price plunge down since the high hype and a lot of investors losing a lot of money, nowadays poeple are prefer buying ICO and then perform dump to make profit

Thats definitely one of the reason behind the dump in price of the market but the thing which I believe was the reason behind the current bottom price the November holidays because most people usually sell than holding when it November-December. However,if you watch closely the date which dip market happened, it started acouple of days to this year thanksgiving.

Until now there have been a lot of governments and authorities who are frightening the use of Bitcoin / Crypto. Basically they are worried because the crypto price movement is so fast that it is very likely to cause economic chaos in a country. Besides that, there are a lot of financial transactions that are free to do and have anonymity, making it difficult for the authorities to take action. This is what we are still waiting for, when various sectors support Crypto use, it is very likely that crypto can develop very rapidly. We are waiting for all that and I am very optimistic that it can happen.

Well, hopefully, that will really happen that there were various sectors will fully support crypto use. If that happens no more price nose diving at all, the development will rapidly go up. Encouraging people too to hold during this bloodbath market and no easy to do panic selling will contribute a good price volume in the market. Because as of now, as what I have seen there are a lot of sellers than the buyers in Bitcoin converting into fiat and it will cause drastically down the price.

I think that the bitcoin price keeps nose diving because of the negative publicity that bitcoin is being manipulated and then there's bitcoin dumping which overflow the supply of bitcoin and makes its value goes down and because of that many of its investors and supporters abandon their support on bitcoin pushing further down bitcoins market value.

Imo the price is being forced down by whales to load up on cheap coins. Its the only way they can increase their supply. Because they know in about 2 m9nths there is going to be sonw serious demand for btc when bakkt opens for trading. Its almost like guaranteed money for the whales. Institutions arent going to be selling in January they are going to be buying.

Think about it if an institution wants to buy 50000 deliverable bitcoins they have to be in baakts possession to deliver. So they will bw scrambling for coins at sone point in time. This is the way to $100k+ bitcoin. Be patient or buy until the end of January we will be fine.

Bitcoins are being accumulated as we speak....  ;D
Major investors are usually ahead of the game....

   Not just major investors, all of us who support it in good and bad times. Bitcoin price is moving in both directions,
but some of us don`t lose faith with first drop. We don`t get eaten by the panic around.
   Every new technology had similar path to the top. People should read about Amazon, Internet, Apple, Microsoft, and many
others. In their history you can find same fluctuations.

I am confused... is the problem caused by the fact that we do not have a decentralized exchange system?

We could also consider that thing and  also the process of regulations coming from SEC which is mostly all the investors have looking it to have assurance of their investment. And it is sad to know that SEC disapproved the application and it turns into losing the confidence of investors into crypto.

Could it that people need to now trade bitcoins on other platforms that are independent and not sold out to the corporations that see them and other cryptos as a threat.

Then, this makes my case. We need an exchange system that's free from the grasp of corporations which can create situation that lead to uncertainty towards cryptos.

Decentralized exchanges are going to be the solution to this problem but to this day no developer has been capable of creating an exchange that is popular with investors and this is because just as decentralized cryptocurrencies have some limitations compared to their fiat counterparts a decentralized exchange is not going to have everything a regular exchange has.

I did read about the Virie market which will be a decentralized exchange system for cryptos to escape the corporations' influence. I don't know if "to this day no developer has been capable of creating an exchange that is popular with investors", but if there were any, their initiative was not successful. In that regard, I think that Virie has potential to revolutionize the exchange system.

Manipulated? who's done it? How can you be sure about that? I think the main reason the price dropping so deep is because people started to sell their coins. moreover, sellers are actually are a bit more rather than buyer. It affects to the price of course. When Bank are afraid of bitcoin, I think people already know why.

There are some good decentralized exchanges out there but they are not popular, most of them have volumes which are very low compared to centralized exchanges, I have not used them all but I used the waves exchange a few months ago and its daily volume was something like 300k dollars which for an exchange is very low, but there are at least 10 new decentralized exchanges being developed at the moment so we can only wait and see if any of those projects becomes popular.

The Waves DEX has since improved in several ways, and the daily volume of the exchange according to Coinmarketcap has now hit around $1.6 Million, so the exchange is a little better now than how you mentioned it a while back. You can help improve volume yourself and make these DEXes just a little bit more popular by trading on them. That’s what I’ve been doing recently, and if you believe in them, it’s a good course of action to take.

Why do you think that decentralized systems are not very popular? Could it be that some powerful people are pulling the strings behind the scenes to prevent them from emerging?

While there could be some manipulation going on it seems to me this is about comfort, most people are too happy to exchange their freedoms for comfort, we can see this everywhere, now there is a huge amount of surveillance software and hardware in your own home but people do not care about this as long as their lives are slightly easier, we see this with the lack of adoption of cryptocurrencies as well when we know they are clearly superior to fiat in many aspects and the same is happening in my opinion to decentralized exchanges.

Market panics, people sell, price drops. People need good news on bitcoin, a persuasion to buy in to the potential of Bitcoin. Market manipulation is possible, but lack of evidence makes it mere speculation.

Thank god at least it stopped going any further down. It was looking really ugly for a while there and when it dropped initially to $5.6k I was glad it stopped but than it dropped even further to $4.8k and I was getting scared and than it dropped to under 4 thousand and I was feeling like we were going downwards to 1 thousand dollars per bitcoin prices.

I am really relieved right now that it looks like it stopped, I hope it doesn't happen again, at least not until we get up a bit more. This is really looking like something huge and we were really not doing well for a while there. It doesn't seem to be nose diving anymore but we are still not clear out of the water yet, we need to make sure we get a bull run (even a small one) before we get another drop in the price.

everyone already knows if the market is manipulated. but now they have run out of bitcoin and it's time for them to buy back, that's why the price of bitcoin is now much better than before.

Yeah... but there's too much uncertainty on standard coins. Wouldn't it be better to have companies that create their own cryptos?

I still don't think it is a good sign because it's being controlled. Don't you think that it's time to use more decentralized exchange platforms?