Bitcoin Forum

We are the bears and the bulls, the hodlers and the fodlers, the peasants of the crypto world. We are just not one thing: we are not whales. We are many, but we don't control the market. Whales are few, but they are in full control. So it seems we got our own version of capitalism: the Crypto-Capitalism, where 1% manages the rest of 99%. What do you think?

Or a derived form of anarcho-capitalism since we don't want governments to interfere? But yeah, crypto-capitalism sounds fitting knowing the ecosystem that we're moving in. With the disparity between the number of minnows and whales, I'd say it balances the scale since the whales act first, minnows follow next; without the initiative of the whales, I don't think we will find ourselves sitting at a hefty $19000 price range just last year knowing how we small-time traders wait for signals before trading and setting our next moves. Not that I'm applauding the said market activity, it's just that most of us are scared of risking our assets first since we only have too little and too important money to lose whereas the whales can risk hundreds of thousands, or even millions, and they can still swim in the waters.

I guess that'll always be the case on any societal hierarchy or setup: there will be the capitalists who can do anything at will and the average Joe who will just follow as what the capitalists do.

I still don't believe in whales and think that what is currently going on with the market is the result of panic chain reaction, so to speak, rather than some whales dumping everything. I am pretty sure this could be checked, though, but I don't know how to do that. If there are whales that really can make a difference, do they use multiple wallets to deceive others? I don't think so, that's conspiracy theory kind of talk. If they do exist, we should see the specific blockchain wallets getting emtied because of transferring funds to exchanges for sales. I am not sure whether it is technically possible to sort the wallets by the amount of coins in them, but here's a link to something related: https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html. As far as I see here, the richest btc addresses hold less than 1% of bitcoins. Only 69 hold more than 0.1%. The top-10 wallets in sum have 5.4% of circulating bitcoins and 4 of these addresses are top exchanges cold wallets, so they are out of the game. Now, I know that it's not the total supply but the trading volume is what matters, but if we check them out, we don't see much of dumping. In fact, the vast majority of transactions is incoming. It's not the whales to dump the market. It's the hell lot of newbies who don't care.

Just like in the real world. Only few controls the assets of the world as we let them and the system makes them to accumulate more like the snowball effect. We should just learn from them if we are eager to be part of what they have coz whether we like it or not, it's gonna be the system that will last for longer times.

It's not yet an established fact as to the existence of whales,i for one do not know if I should believe whether they exist or not..
We're told the system is decentralized,and of a truth it is,and I think that makes it open for numerous manipulations
Is it possible for a 1% number to effectively manipulate the entire bitcoin market to cause a massive collapse of the prices..

Really this whole whale scenario needs to be clarified,ive tried using the search button to read more on it,but I can't seem to find anything more informative that the normal "they own assets and control the market'
I really doubt the existence of whales(i maybe totally wrong),but if they do not exist,then who's behind this whole manipulations..
Probably it may simply be down to a lack/loss of investment in the bitcoin,which lead to a huge "drop off" of the currency..

Well I'm a noob in trading,and I do not really know much

Whales have less power than you think. If they keep selling, they're no longer whales. If they want to recoup their coins, they create buying pressure on the market.

It's not the 99% vs. the 1%. The market is just the market. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. :)

I think Bitcoin can be the basis for the New World Order. Many people are afraid of it, but I think it is good. I like the concept of a digital future. I think that in 10-20 years the society will change very much and we will remember these times with nostalgia.

we all know there are whales. Are they significant enough to manipulate the market? yes, but for now. as more adoption happens there will be less whales imo

lol you mean the slide down?

its true however the bitcoin whales and the big miner association are in a desperate situation they all hope for the environment to shift towards their favour so they can have a living creating a currency that wastes electricity and doesnt promote the creation and upkeep of schools and hospitals, thats the way it works,and thats the reason why bitcoin will crush down.

regards

If you hodl a lot then you are to be called a whale, on their part controlling the price is easy. Large volume are hodl by them so they can do what they want. Investing a lot is really an asset in crypto world. Just be sure to manage and know how to work well.

Some here with the theory of whales and some oppose them
I see it as a fact but differently
It is not necessary that the whales have larger amounts
It is enough that they coordinate their steps and agree with each other on the action plan
With acceptable volume
I think that is the case
The solution is to increase the market volume
so that the size of the whales is small
So its impact is minimal.

Do you really think only in capitalism 1% manages the rest of 99%?
It's not a perfect world, but I would be happy for being a free peasant instead of a slave.

You very accurately noticed. like everywhere, a very small group of people controls the entire market

I wouldn't categorize ourselves as a peasant and I don't think that 1% controls all crypto including bitcoin. If the price goes down the whales holding so much bitcoin also suffer. I guess the best thing to is just HODL through significant losses and let the whales play their games. Sooner or later we will be experiencing this massive rally and thanks to them. So if they became 'phenomenal rich' then we will be 'rich' as well.

This is true that only 1 percent hold it making it capitalism. In real world , capitalism controls our normal economic activities and as bitcoin is part of the economy, it will experience the same capitalism.

We haven't proven whales' existence so far. This market is full anonymity that every transaction here is made without identification. This makes difficult to point out that there are whales in the market that can manipulate prices. But, for sure there are early bitcoin holders that hold huge amount of bitcoin and there are big institutions that accumulate their bitcoin, as well as rich people that don't want to be left behind. 

'Wealth, as Mr. Hobbes says, is power. But the person who either acquires, or succeeds to a great fortune, does not necessarily acquire or succeed to any political power either civil or military. His fortune may, perhaps, afford him the means of acquiring both, but the mere possession of that fortune does not necessarily convey to him either.'

This quote is taken from Chapter 5 of Book 1 of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith.

Here he is saying that power doesn't just come to those who have money. They can acquire it with money, but by default haven't the power. It doesn't matter if there is a concentration of wealth, because they don't have political puissance ( I am excluding market manipulation which isn't political).

Off topic:

Of course socialism/communism and fascism/authoritarianism is different. The government/leader/dictator has almost all the wealth, and by default they have the legal power as well.

Big whales, conspiracy and manipulation are few but they have the huge financial resources at their disposal that is why they can control the market movements and this was not only in crypto world but they could also be found in all none crypro investments and still many of us can ride with their games as long as we know how to ride with them with a perfect timing.

the assumption many conspiracy theorists make is that whales are colluding to crash the price so they can buy back lower and profit. it's a weak analysis though. whales could only push price down like that if demand is too weak to absorb the selling pressure. people are just in denial about the fact that demand is weak. the market simply wasn't interested enough in buying bitcoins to sustain the price.

The real definition and basics of a capitalist system aren't really what people think or live. Communists also use the capitalism, Karl Max used it to write the communist manifesto. A capitalist is just someone with a capital, no matter your political party, nationality, religion, ideology.

There is one reason why after bitcoin experiences a bubble then falls to hell. It was caused by ICO, they collected funds to sell to the market. Imagine if there were hundreds of ICO projects selling coins (BTC or ETH) that they got from ICO sales, what happened? They sell coins to fund their projects, but they don't think about maintaining the value of cryptocurrency. So, I think whales are also victims in this matter.

The assumption that some magical whales are controlling the market is fundamentally wrong. Rich people are controlling the market and they don't have to be whales in the way that they hold a lot of bitcoins. They can be total newcomers with a lot of money to invest. The market isn't only controlled in one way (down). A fiat millionaire can come to an exchange and buy coins dragging the price up.