Bitcoin Forum

Hello world.

So first thing first: this is not an accusation of any kind towards Lutpin or other members, I'm taking Lutpin because his case really strucked me that's all.

I've ran accross this message that made me feel like there is something needed to be said:


The message is into this topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1633979.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1633979.0) which is the BitBlender signature campaign managed by Luptin which is supposed to be paid every two weeks. Members had no news from Luptin for 2 months and weren't paid either, so lots of them started to doubt they would ever get paid and asked the campaign manager to do his job and pay them or at least give some news. Searing made a few posts like this one:


All very polite but asking for at least an update.

And then Lutpin showed up posting this:

Which triggered the answer of Searing where he says he's ashamed of his doubt...


So I want to say it and I hope I'm not the only one thinking it: WTF IS WRONG GUYS?? Lutpin was 6 weeks late without any explanations or news. He might have had a very good reason but that's not the point! If in real life you have a good client that is supposed to pay and gives no news after 6 weeks of delay you have every right to wonder if he's reliable...

I feel like people as Lutpin, Lauda or others are treated like gods on this forum, as if they were not in the same level as us. Those people have made big contributions to the community and sure deserve some respect and have earned some trust, but I don't think that's a good idea to treat them like they're above everything and everyone.

PRECISION: I don't even think they want to be treated that way, they nevers asked so at least that's for sure.

Just a small rant, again I've got nothing against Luptin or other members with a well established reputation. They deserve it without a doubt, but there is difference between respect and sucking someone...

Why do you think he is treated that way?
He already has a negative trust from a default trust member.
Other members didn't add a negative trust because they knew him and he is trusted enough for them. They may even contacted him in private to clarify the situation.
Anyway this belong to the reputation section.

My eyes... fix this.

And what exactly are you trying to say and why is this in Meta? More like a reputation issue I think.

1- It's "Lutpin" not "Luptin"
2- Why Meta? He's not even a forum staff. Reputation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0) seems more appropriate.
3- He already has a negative trust ratings and (as well as Lauda) and has negative score of "???: -1 / +11" - so clearly they're not being treated as gods.
4- Most participants are too afraid of losing their spots (especially when there are no other open campaigns) so don't expect those enrolled to be very vocal and argumentative about payment delays.

1/ This definitely belongs to reputation sorry, don't know how to move it myself :/
I'll lock it until moved so it doesn't pollute this board found it :D

2/ The neg rating isn't the issue, I'm talking about the way people on the forum address old and respected members. I got the impression that there is some king of tremendeous gap between old established members and newer ones and I believe it doesn't help to attract or maintain a good atmosphere on the forum

3/ Maybe you're right and it's more because they're sig campaign participants so they're afraid about getting kicked...

Ever see the movie The Human Centipede?  Well with some of these campaign participants, it seems like instead of forming a linear chain of human bodies on their knees, they all have their oral cavities surgically attached to Lutpin's (or whoever the campaign manager is) anus. 

Therefore none of the participants are capable of speaking up and telling a manager that he's doing a shitty job.  They find it much more comfortable saying "oh yessa massa, whateva y'all say massa" and being professional rectal prolapsers than being something other than a mouse who runs to the corner when the cat rears its head.

This situation was made much, much worse because of how much bitcoin crashed.  That would have pissed me off royally.  Now I have to tell you that I think most signature campaigners shouldn't even be members of this forum, much less getting paid to post here, but a deal is a deal.  They don't deserve to be treated worse than Chinese teen Nike sweatshop workers.  Most of the time. 

But my point is that if you say you're going to pay a whole bunch of people to advertise for your company/project/whatever, pay them, and pay them on time.  If a manager is having a problem doing that, he deserves to be fired.  I left Lutpin a neg because what he did was absolutely untrustworthy.  Did he scam?  No.  Do I trust him less than I used to?  Yes.  People ought to be warned about his shenanigans, since he might very well be managing campaigns in the future.

I agree with the other guys posted above. This is issue is not appropriate in this section unless you specify something and connect to this section. The word that I understand is all about Lutpin as not a God. Yes, he is not and everyone know this so why posted it?

I guess you're right and it's more about the sectio than the people...

I mean people even MERITED his post Oo

The guy comes back 6 weeks late without any excuses saying "ok I pay you" and people give merit to his post  :o

My personal opinion. These talked about members in this particular thread are very old and have a strong community of top members of this forum. I can clearly see that there are multiple groups that are running the majority of high paying campaigns and no one wants to be in the bad books of these members. The person was immediately sorry to Luptin because they don't want to be in the bad books of him and his associates. That is called looking out for himself.

It is Human nature. The current format of the forum makes it very important for a new member to be in the good books of major players to get merits/signatures/campaigns etc. Your chances on the forum are limited if you offend any major group. But, that is how all the major organizations/governments work. This is what really really concerns me about the current format of the forum. The power to control now rests with a select few.

Bad campaign management is not unusual and all the participants just take it because they are not left with many options. It has been going on for as long as I remember with related campaigns to this one with common associates iirc.

I think it makes the advertised companies themselves look like shit to have this happening under them, on their watch, and them not doing anything to straighten it out.

Who's fault is it really?
Who is lutpin's boss/superior? And his? And the next above him?
All of em.. Whoever lets it slide.

I think it's a stretch to claim that Searing (who is a polite and considerate person from what I've seen) saying that he's "ashamed" is equivalent to some God-like status for old members. People have different opinions and of course the participants of the campaign might be less inclined to criticize their employer. Ask The Pharmacist about Yobit ;)

I don't think that yelling at Lutpin more aggressively would help any newbies or the atmosphere in general. Everyone should get evaluated on their own merits (pun not intended) rather that trying to meet some artificial equality/balance/etc in these reputation issues.

Lutpin has been a poor campaign manager for a long time now just disappearing with no comment for weeks.
This isn’t the first incident & it probably won’t be the last, he rarely ever communicates with the people in his campaigns & if you remember I had to personally contact you as a DT member to try & help myself & others get paid in the 777Coin campaign. I think it was 11 or 12 weeks without payment.

I mean look - He still has me in his google spreadsheet for the 777Coin campaign & I’ve been gone from it for months -

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JW8oWUht5IasnjkflAmu89ek322QFu6YmMjqYnG2W_o/htmlview


I hope he is ok in real life but regardless he’s failing badly as a campaign manager. He used to be on point & really active here but something has changed with him, I’d suggest he’s removed from DT.

I believe still he is still the same cunt how he was used to be before so bad campaign management has nothing to do with DT level status because his feedbacks are mostly right and it given after research by himself so removing him from DT will neutralize all the feedback he has given which may free many scammers and spammers.

I think he is not having time for managing the campaigns and his last comment also about transferring the campaign to other manager.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. This sums up the situation in here pretty well. Decentralized coin with fully centralized forum how funny is that?  ;D

Not sure what you mean about that, because I always had mixed feelings about Yobit.  For the noobs here, it was essentially robo-managed, and you could get paid multiple times a day into your Yobit account.  No waiting, no fuss, none of this drama about managers doing lousy jobs.  

I wish there were currently campaigns that could pay for posts like Yobit did, except (and this is the mixed feelings part) there's no way to quickly tell if a post is a good one or not unless your standards are near zero and it's only character count that matters--and Yobit didn't even have a character minimum if I recall correctly.  In any event, Yobit had posters that were even worse than Secondstrade had, and I can't even remember who the Yobit manager was.  I think it was just Yobit's BCT account that did all the talking and dealing with problems, much like Secondstrade.  Maybe suchmoon can correct me if I'm mistaken.

By the way, I agree with OP.  DT members and campaign managers aren't gods and shouldn't be treated with reverence--especially when they don't deserve it and (especially)^2  when the member in question is both a DT member and a campaign member.  Sometimes you have to figuratively be a man, stand up for yourself, and refused to be treated like you live on pagpag.

I felt kinda intimidated too as a Newbie, and receiving a PM from a highly trusted user was a big thing.

I don't see what's wrong with that. Merit is meant for posts that are worth reading, and Lutpin's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1633979.msg48277659#msg48277659) adds important information to that thread.

I don't recall the details but I remember you in the Yobit campaign and getting some flack for being defensive about the shittiness of their participants and about scam accusations against Yobit itself. I don't hold that against you as I understand that things are never black and white. I was in Asicminer campaign (IIRC last paid signature I had) around the time it collapsed and I probably posted some positive things about them. And even if we were completely impartial with those posts, the perception of bias would still be there.

As for the OP's problem... doesn't seem to be much of a problem TBH. No one really deifies Lutpin, or any other recently-disgraced-previously-very-cool campaign managers (e.g. aTriz).

I'm sure I took the criticism about Yobit spammers personally and someone accused me of being one on my trust wall, but I don't remember there being nearly the amount of scam accusations against Yobit back then as opposed to now.  My demeanor and attitude have probably changed somewhat from my Yobit days.

However, though I tried to be diplomatic about it, I was in Lutpin's 777Coin campaign and at one point posted this in the thread:
I finally quit the campaign because of stuff like this, but I'll also admit I was 1) too impatient, and 2) not nearly so well-versed in how "flexible" campaign managers are in terms of when they make payments.  I think I deleted my final post in that thread because it was basically something juvenile, like "I'm done with this campaign".   I never disliked Lutpin and still respect him, and I don't mean the neg trust on him to reflect anything personal or vindictive because of crap like the above.  If I were him I probably would have told me to STFU and be patient.

However....the latest delays that the Lutpin/Lightlord campaigns have experienced go far beyond defending like I did with Yobit or you, suchmoon, might have done with the Asicminer campaign.  Neither of those made their participants suffer quite like Lutpin/Lightlord's have as far as I know (though now that I'm remembering Yobit, that fucking "withdrawal" button used to get frozen quite often).

It bears repeating that not only were the Bitvest/777Coin participants made to wait weeks to get paid, but bitcoin dropped severely during part of that time they were waiting.  That's doubly wrong. 

And boy, I'd really love to hear from more of the campaign participants themselves.  Some have spoken up, but most have not and I can't imagine that it's because they don't have an opinion on the matter.

If they wanted their "flexibility" they should have stated such in their OP/contract.
A breach of their word is a breach of their word IMO and it's a shame that "managers" are so seemingly immune to repercussions of failing to uphold their promised obligations, and the companies they work for let it go on.
If anything they should be held to the highest standard but somehow they are regularly allowed to slip very far out of line because they are royalty/posters are desperate to be paid/standards are low.

No waiting, you say. I'm waiting more than 4 months since the last payment :). Some participants got payments few weeks ago, but I talked with few guys and they still didn't got payment since June or July, like me.
As I remember, Yobit were tagged by some DT members for accepting shitposters. Then they hired Hilariousandco as campaign manager. Then I remember him large lists of removed users quite often.
And I think you confused Secondstrade with Bitmixer. Bitmixer was automated campaign, not Secondstrade and they a lot of shitposters in their campaign, until they decided to hire Lauda. Secondstrade campaign wasn't that bad.

Dude, I didn't even know the Yobit campaign was still runnning!  I have sigs blocked, but I have noticed your personal message and I think I once asked you if you were still in the campaign but don't recall if I got a reply.  I could have imagined that anyway, or it could have been someone else.

I didn't say Secondstrade was automated, just that it was not managed by an outside campaign manager that they hired but the Secondstrade.com account on bitcointalk itself.

Any kind of reputation or trust system introduces a power structure, thus inherently making people unequal. In the forum's case, you'd be talking about Staff, DT and/or users who just have a high trust rating. This is a crucial part of pretty mcuh every society, relax.

There's really no need to do this. There's a very good reason why they aren't complaining, i.e. they are not very good posters and need the campaign for its income. If they were certain that they could strike a similar deal elsewhere, and had integrity, they'd be more willing to speak up.

Ahh, the good ol' days until the agencies came knocking on the door. :)

Secondstrade was the worst campaign as far as I remember then yobit. Bitmixer wasn't until people rejected from other campaign joined it and with the takedown of yobit and secondstrade spammers, bitmixer became one of the worst until lauda strikes back. Good old days yeah.

---

Personally, i don't mind waiting for a year because I am pretty sure I will get paid whether by lutpin or lightlord (will they ruin their reputation for some moneh?) and I am basically holding my BiTCents. And yeah most likely i will not be accepted by almost all campaigns because i am a hyperactive member obviously! For the other participants I don't know...

This thread is really funny. Been in his campaign for over 1.5 years and there was never a single delay in the payments. Has anybody ever considered that the owners of the campaign could equally be at the fault by not sending payments to him on time? Just going around tagging a respected member without solid proofs is not needed to be honest. Like you can consider Crypto-games.net campaign managed by him and there wasn't any delay till date?

Being 6 weeks late in paying someone, especially with no communication should be a massive red flag and it would be prudent to not trust him with additional money until at least this gets resolved, possibly longer depending on the circumstances the money is paid, assuming it eventually gets paid.

He has been trusted with a lot of money in the past but you don’t know his financial situation now. You also don’t know if he has decided that his reputation isn’t worth the amount he is holding for others.

I would avoid doing business with him until this is resolved.

You don't need to prove anything if you want to tag someone on this forum. Trust is based on your own personal beliefs, and if you feel mistreated by someone you can leave feedback. It's also not permanent. It can serve as a reminder for that person that someone has a problem with him. When the problem gets solved, the trust will change to neutral or positive.

The way I see it, Lutpin was online and did not explain the delay. If he made things clear and communicated with campaign members, there wouldn't be an issue to talk about here.

That's not exactly true, see my reply on this other thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5074962.msg48486945#msg48486945

Look, I personally trust Lutpin because he has given me no reason to distrust him.

That doesn't mean he can't make mistakes though. If I was a member of the Bitblender campaign, I probably would have been somewhat pissed if payments were delayed for such a long time.
In the end it's the campaign manager's responsibility to communicate these sorts of issues to the participants.

Now, I do want to add that aside from this issue, he has a great track record.
Mistakes like these can be forgiven in my opinion. He did give an update eventually & we don't know how much of this was due to Bitblender.

He already gave an update to bitblender campaign too about transferring the campaign to new manager.So soon most of the campaigns managed by Lutpin will be taken over by some new manager in few days (I hope).

He had good reputation but don't know still why he didn't gave an update why there is such delay in the payment processing. ??? Which already killed his reputation.

From what I know the funds are in Lutpin escrow so no not really.

And it doesn't change the fact that he might consider at least giving some news in the 6 weeks of unpaid campaign...

But the thread wasn't to say Lutpin is a good or a bad manager, just that you don't need to talk to him like he's some kind of noblebirth that's all.

"noblebirth" Is that even a word? Yes, the thread is not to judge if Lutpin is a good or a bad manager because we all know he's exceptionally good at managing the campaigns. It's just the DT system which needs a fix.

Let me bump this thread, becuse i also would like to ask Lutpin in public, about his escrow.

I want to point out, that I am not accusing him of anything, but it seems to me, that he should clarify this situation. (difficult situation)

The case refer to the Ebitz signature campaign : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1682519.0

Where Lutpin escrowed 4 BTC : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1682519.msg16896804#msg16896804

Ebitz project turn in to a scam.

It happened in November 2016, payment for the campaign was made - actually I don't know from which funds, because Lutpin still hold whole 4 BTC:
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13GZLCEmeueHPxwGUMH3eYSRASs5di5Xfx

There were different ideas about what to do with these funds, but it seems that the decision has not been taken up yet.
It is possible that he just forgot about it, but I think that it is time to decide what to do with these funds.

Why exactly do you think you are entitled to request Lutpin to do anything about this? Whatever he decides, someone will complain about it. Therefore it is best to not do anything.

Lutpin paid out 0.82BTC in this transaction (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/de1390cc302b78f5edf1f6a1c85ee487386c60c233ee76a30e7b8d34dac27873).


He'll have to do something eventually I would assume. I think that donating it to charity wouldn't raise any complaints, as the only other suggested usage of the remainder was to give it to campaign participants (which obviously didn't happen and won't happen).

It can also be a solution. However, I think it would be better to give this money to charity.
In my opinion these are community funds, so we should decide together.