Bitcoin Forum

We've all seen the headlines by now that Deutsche Bank has been raided yet again for illegal activity

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46382722

This seems like a game of whack a mole that won't actually end until people start storing their wealth themselves, rather than paying bankers to hold their money.

Deutsche Bank criminal activities from liquidating Holocaust victims assets, telling customers to buy worthless mortgages, colluding with banks to manipulate interest rates and laundering Russian money are covered in our recent posting

https://www.bestbitcoinbuyers.com/2018/11/29/hitler-and-trumps-bank-are-still-breaking-the-law/

What are your thoughts on their recent scandal?

Is this a case for bitcoins value (removing the cost of banks criminal activities) or something that will be washed away like all of the other scandals banks have had this decade?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxnUBgjVsAArtAx.jpg

these scandals always get buried under the rug and forgotten within a few days. it's definitely a case for bitcoins value---we all know on some level that banks are parasitical and criminal. but it's difficult for that case to be made to the public when the narrative about bitcoin's own ties to criminal activity are so prevalent.

for example, the american authorities have just designated the bitcoin addresses of two iranian men as sanctioned (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5077471.0). a friend mentioned the story to me because he knows i use bitcoin. he tried to claim this was evidence that only criminals use bitcoin. this is still probably a fairly common view.

They laundered money (allegedly) for Trump AND (admitted) for Hitler!

It is rather ironic in a weird way. The lenders that financed Auschwitz are also fined for a decade for violating financial laws and now loosely involved in the US Presidents drama.


Kind of fascinated by how much money laundering the banks pay fines for and just walk away from.



It's actually proof that authorities still catch the criminals regardless of bitcoin or banks laundering their money, doing illegal things puts you in jail :)

This is a case for politics forgiving bank debt and covering up good financial conduct.   Politics will support Deutsche bank and others because most governments are in debt and they need primary dealers (buyers of Treasury debt) to continue on.    The governments allow the banks and the banks allow the government to keep running budget deficits.

I expect DB to get fined but not closed unless they have another bank to take it over, probably none of them want to do that

Don't blame Deutsche bank for everything.They are just a puppet of the wealthy elite and they just execute orders.If doesn't matter if it is the nazi elite or the nowadays capitalist elite.The union between bankers and politicians is unbreakable and it will continue untill the end of human civilization.

Illegal laundering of money can happen both with fiat and with crypto, they're very alike in that. As someone who does use banks and will continue to do so, they offer fairly terrible interest rates but they do offer perks that crypto as of yet does not. Firstly any deposits are normally protected up to a certain value. Secondly the funds are easily spent around the world.

I'm all about the BTC but no, I don't think this can be a case for Bitcoin to supplant banks - not a strong one anyway. I can easily imagine banks being like BTC-e, purportedly helping criminals to launder their money. USD might be the easiest now (though we're dealing with Euro here), and sure, Bitcoin txs on a public ledger might appear to be the hindrance for now but with privacy tools and analytics expertise, banks could easily offer mixing, coinjoin services etc.

This isn't so much a case for Bitcoin as it is a case against banking systems. Money's a tool. You can use it, misuse it, etc.

Isn't that the point though? It's a case for peer-to-peer money (Bitcoin) vs. third parties (banks). Banks need lots of transaction liquidity and value to facilitate money laundering. If people transition to peer-to-peer money (becoming their own banks), it could remove that liquidity from banks.

You're right that Bitcoin banks would probably be no better than what we have now. I'm hoping Bitcoin adoption is a little more substantive than everyone holding their coins at Coinbase though.

With bitcoin and other crypto all of these transactions can be traced, all they need to do is force them to provide the bitcoin wallet address and it can be traced showing how many coins have been paid for whatever transaction. Better than these shady banks and their hidden deals

This is just another page for the books, and will be buried in piles of other useless news in the coming weeks. Banks would continue to be an avenue for money laundering and illegal activities knowing how easy it is for the government to forgive and forget all the misconducts banks made (and will make). Even though the public has already seen the worst side of these institutions, this will still not be a case for bitcoin and crypto knowing that it too can be used for illegal activities and such, though cryptocurrencies are far more transparent and open than what the banks are.

This issue will be forgotten soon after a fine has been slapped. People will carry on as if nothing happened, as the government cannot issue a closure of DB since they know they will need it in the future.

I'm certain DB will get away with it after firing those who supposedly were involved, and of course the multi million fine that comes with it.

It's what banks always do and have prepared themselves for. These cases are collateral damage and nothing else. The fines they happily pay for crossing the line is nothing in comparison to what they have made before, and will continue to make in the forthcoming years. It pays off to conduct illegal activities, and there isn't much that you can do against, and I'm certain that the authorities don't even mind it. It's another paycheck for them after all.

Bitcoin isn't a tool to eliminate every trail of corruption and criminality.

This scandal is just a result of the Panama Papers. How usually banks deal with is they accept to pay a fine (worth multiple millions of dollars) instead to go to the court, as 1Referee says. Several did it already. They still win money and the reputation isn't damaged (or very less) Banks are still the winners. People aren't looking to store their wealth themselves, they need a service and the bank offered it.

In that sense yes, of course, but here the case is gaining control over your money rather than someone else having control over it. A lot of these blockchain projects and digital money talk about the 2/3rds of the world who are unbanked, so their desire is to bank the unbanked. Give them access to financial services. But like you said and I wholly agree, Bitcoin is the one way people can still remain unbanked and yet access money - spend it, send it, pay for things.

And yeah, bearing in mind that people talk about adoption just because XYZ people "have Bitcoin" doesn't mean much. Mainstream adoption should start to look at how many people actually control their own bitcoin, how many actually spend it and use it without Coinbase and their ilk.

I have always said the same thing, people have been talking about how bitcoin is used for drug dealers doing their thing without getting caught or even people laundering money and all that but no one really recognizes the fact that bitcoin was created in 2008 and all of those things were going around before bitcoin became a thing.

People have been laundering money and dealing drugs way before bitcoin was created and they all used fiat money for that. There was a lot of talk about how "all 20 dollar us bills have some traces of cocaine on them" type of stuff. Bitcoin was not around during the 80's when cocaine was incredibly famous and used neither.

So, when something like this happens to Deutsche bank and cops confiscate all needed information to give out jail time for money laundering it just shows the world how innocent bitcoin itself is, it is the greedy people that are dangerous and they can use either bitcoin or fiat doesn't matter to them.

I beleive this is something that is going on all the time and the question is only if and when it will be discovered. Big banks have always been involved in illegal activities that is how they earn big money.
Still I don't think that recent case has anything to do with Bitcoin or that is some kind of trigger. Money laundering is nothing new and nothing unusual and this that happened in Deutche Bank isn't any special case. Although people like to think there is some conspiracy theory behind everything.

Already an anticipated thing to happen is on where a certain news explodes out directly involving banks about these activities but only a few days then this issue would be buried and forget and wait
up again for another.
This cycle wont really end and people already accepts this kind of reality and it turns out that we dont really care at all.

This is their scandal in the past, The Panama papers an investigation that has been revealed in 2016, Actually, after hearing this laundering scheme by the bank I can not imagine the wide range it gets that a bank had actually done these things, Well as we can sure already know that a person is sure behind these things I really think that the greediness of that person will surely spark up when he or she had seen this much amount of money that he or she can accumulate and just like this story it can sure happen with bitcoin as well as it involves money that will surely spark the evil deed of a person.

Yes, the scandals will buried soon because we both know that there are many powerful involved in this such of things and the sweetest part is that it will make more investors trust in bitcoin which I agreed with you concerning the case to be bitcoins value but what hurt is that if bitcoin was the cause of this thing the government will go extra length.

you were correct there!

The best part of the 2 iranian BTC addresses banned by the US government, if anything, prove the point of how Bitcoin is decentralized, censorship resistant money. There's trolls sending money on these addresses, risking huge penalties, all for the sake of making the point of Bitcoin being unstoppable.

Every time some jackass claims "bitcoin is centralized in china" or some crap, you just have to point them to these addresses and it refutes any points of centralization.

As far as Deutsche Bank, I don't get how this firm hasn't filled bankruptcy already. I've been hearing about how screwed up they were but it keeps coming back. See this:

https://news.goldcore.com/ie/gold-blog/deutsche-bank-insolvent/

Bankers are the bigger criminals in our society.
They can do everything that they can in order to get money. They don't have dignity and they are the biggest thread for the economic gaps between classes. Deutsche Bank is involved in many criminal cases and I think that more are about to come when Bitcoin is going to be omnipresent, bringing a new economic ecosystem.

Going against Deutsche bank like all other banks are innocent seems willfully ignorant, they are one of the worst banks in history and they have been doing illegal stuff for years now (decades even) but that is not only them, look at what JP Morgan has been doing as well, they had CEO of their bank go become secretary of finance or something (don't really know american politics that well) and shape the country in a way that would make the most money for the banks.

These are the evil people who rule countries without actually being at the helms and we can't trust the judgement of a banker ever when it comes to finance because they will only think for themselves. Deutsche at least started to get a bit of consequences for what they are doing, hopefully the same will happen for all evil banks.