Bitcoin Forum

with something better,

that is not racist, not communist, and religiously neutral, purely economic focused.

like it would be the case for a ecomonopolis like coruscant.

main problem bitcoin is that you created bitcoin not for a civilisation but for a market

who the hell wants now to live under these communist/nationalists etc. bitcoin and crypto with all its mistakes destroyed their nimbus

Can you please expound more on what you mean with this statement? Especially with the "mistakes" part.

crypto is to confusing, its not systematik,

you have to create a multilayered financial system for an ecomenopolis, not a market that is annoying confusing.

the population has to support that financial infrastructure for good reasons. not because someone is a nice guy, or the index depicts a certain coin far on top

Cryptocurrencies are confusing just as internet infrastructure is technically confusing. But we still see non tech-savvy people using the internet right? The same applies with bitcoin or cryptocurrency in general. It's just that they're simply not that user friendly for the older folks at the moment. Bitcoin is just 10 years young. With time, people will be making and developing solutions for the UI/UX problem.

you can chance the banking computer systems.
you can change their data base for a crypto that limited to x coins

but a bank would simply create bank altcoin that represent different bonds and different asset classes and things end up as the same thing.

just look at bitcoin. the bankers are already trying to say everyone into thinking blockchains cant scale and the only move forward is to lock funds up and use non blockchain bank-esq business models

LN is to crypto, what banks gold promissory notes were to the 18th century shift from gold to paper money
(LN flaw channel partners not always alive/awake/online.. solution. have a HQ watchtower factory to manage channels where they get final signoff on all broadcasts to unlock the vaults)

because we can't change "people" overnight. they will continue to cling to their old ways as hard as they can even though they are bad. for example we created bitcoin as a decentralized payment system but people like you are still only caring about making profit and forgetting the more important part of it. so the change with this kind of mentality is not going to be that easy.

look folks its quite easy why dont we just replace the national/racist/communist banks with something useful that is somehow cooperating, like a network of engineering foundations that is global nonracist noncommunist, and engages in its local infrastructure.

all use the same logo for the currency and all use a standardised evaluation system

meaning you simply dont pay more token for a good of x value

in my oppinion its completely impossible that a stable urban planet like coruscant (star wars) runs banks be it communist or nationalist. it runs technological infrastructure focused foundations millions of them that basically are focused on balancing economic generativity.

if we could get together people that would want to run such a financial aristocracy and keep it standardised, it could create a global currency.

it is then a fiat currency of course, and disciplined usage meaning i simply dont spend with volatility but pay regular prices,

will create a generative network that interacts with its environment positively instead of ressource wasting like bitcoin

power must be taken, or there will be huge economic problems. this way we get rid of the communist/nationalist banks

bitcoin had lots of support because it took power that was available and the unsecure bankers created that power gap.

regards

there is already 2000 coins who try to want to replace some other system.
replacing a system is just upgrading the old system, but not solving the problem.

banks are "cooperative" they have layers of foundations. and at the bottom later engaging in local infrastructure.

now wash all your buzzwords away and use common speak to describe what you would actually want. as it seems right now your just trying to throw out as many buzzwords as you can to make a sentance but not actually getting out a design plan of a network you want to see.

they have all to use the same logo, and they have to publish their mission.

worlds population currently wants more value sources more generativity(growth), if such a network of capitalists/aristokrats would be created/assembled together it would work.

look at china today for example it created a lot of economic output but there is not enough aristocratic network that takes those fruits and creates new things out of it.

capitalism is necessary. but better do it with a mission and standardise the communities global logo outlook.

again you seem to be trying to advertise LN.

a separate network that allows multiple coins to use that network all under one brand...
but without it being a blockchain itself there are many issues:

1. nodes need to be more than just channel managers. by also running a full node to monitor the vaulted coins movements onchain
2. with so many coins being allowed nodes end up having to monitor multiple chains. to then play off-chain
3. in a non blockchain payment system there is no byzantine generals solution
4. this makes way for master factory nodes to monitor the different chains and they become the watchtowers that get final signoff so that people dont have to self monitor everything and just become litewallet users that trust the watchtower factory

and now we are back to the 18th-19th century era of banking

if your now going to revise your concept. to be less LN and more separate chains that sidechain directly together. there still ends up with needing master nodes to monitor the ins and outs of both sides.
by which. if these master nodes need to monitor both sides. why have both sides. you might aswell just have 1 side with double capacity blocks

nope its all and the same coin, of a big group of people that run same mission, like for example building high tech infrastructure/products,

states are being founded this way btw. there is the group of capitalists that announces the state, the currency and the workers that then work for that currency

This kind of change will require mass consensus on a global level. Otherwise nothing is going to happen in the current banking system. However, Banks are slowly understanding that blockchain is the future and slowly started to apply for patents around blockchain technology for banks.

Now I would like to understand what you mean by "bitcoin and crypto with all its mistakes"?

Today's economy and banking system thrives under strict centralization. Decentralizing the entire architecture would cost a fortune for the banks which is essentially public money. The way banking system is deeply rooted within our society and economy, it will bring a disaster if we want to replace it. Slow change and adoption will be able to reach that stage but it is again a time consuming process! Probably our next to next generation will see something drastically different and better, but not us!

Everyone has a different perspective, maybe there is a saying that Bitcoin is a perfect system that might be used in a world financial system in the future. But now all we need to do is try to continue to support everything related to crypto, so that we can get maximum results in the future. We are the first part of the crypto world and we must be able to get the best results in the end.

bitcoins main issues are:

1. its wasting electricity
2. its anti organic
3. its not reliable

i think there is a better opportunity.

1-2. That's definitely debatable. But what are your suggested alternatives? Ask a central bank how much energy or resources in general they're using. Bitcoin's mining electricity consumption is dwarfed.

3. You don't commonly expect a new technology to be working flawlessly in just a decade, just as the internet wasn't ready for global adoption in it's first few years when it wasn't easy to use for majority of the people. Stop being too focused on the present, as technology always moves forward.

i recommend, a different system than banks, based on people intereacting and managing their economic enviornment,

like engineering foundations we then get an efficiency and success delivering infrastructure, instead of gaylords in banks,

they should all use the same logo for their currency, and all interact with their environment and reward people for maintain generativity of their economy, also guide that economy,

the currency issued this way is the

generative socio economic source, i am pioneering in this area.

its much better than banks, its not passive, its active, and its not sectoring the world into communist regions or worse nations etc.

they can theoretically create as much money as they want, but they should run an accounting system, oriented on organic calories, like for example 0.5 entities per kg of flour or 4000 kalories, then there is a reliable measurement, how the money is being spend and the most secure business is not bitcoin mining but producing these organic calories, since they are the base measurement.

generative socio economic source:

check my website. i could use help morphing/replacing current gambling financial institutions into with their environment operating ones.

The idea is good but what will effectively replace the banking infrastructure and be accepted everywhere?? Tbh Only option we have is  Crypto and if you ask me this is still a work in progress and can't be used now because it still has flaws 

there already is a capitalist/aristocratic systems.
they are called banks

you say bitcoin was not made for a civilisation but for a market.
im sorry to inform you but bitcoins 2009-2013 ethos was for a civilisation, where socialist/libertarian groups wanted something that was different than the capitalist/aristocratic banks.

yet 2013+ bitcoin lost its socialist/libertarian civilisation ideologies and and became the capitalist market mindset

asking for a capitalist/aristocratic thing is exactly what your getting with bitcoin. recently. and guess what, its not making bitcoin better. its slowed things down. by being "conservative" (delaying innovation) and twisting bitcoin by telling the public that blockchains dont work and that the only options are locked up funds in co-signed addresses that are unaudited by the community.

here is what bitcoin community really needs to do to stop being so market driven and get back to a change in civilisation.

1. stop saying bitcoin is a waste of electricity as it is like saying breathing is a waste of oxygen. bitcoin is digital. meaning electric. if you want something that doesnt 'waste' electric then go make paper and complain that its a waste of trees. or make a physical labour barter system and complain that its a waste of sweat.
bitcoin does not waste electricity. it has been proven that even if you believe 50% of mining is in china. screw it lets just call it 100% to really exaggerate things.. the 100% of mining is using up under 10% of the UNUSED electric production that is above demand/consumption of just china
at bitcoins peak. 40twh is bitcoins usage a year.
china alone consumes 5600twh. but produces 6500twh. that 900twh goes to waste unused.
bitcoin at max of 40twh world wide buys the waste electric and uses it. think of it like vegetables that dont get sold, that would end up going to landfill. a bitcoin grocer buys that excess veg and feeds on it. thus less veg go to landfill
out of china alone bitcoin at its peak was only using 40tw of 5600 consumption. which is less than 1% of only china.
to give you prospective
you will actually find that cocacola alone uses more electric than bitcoin just to keep bottles and cans of cola chilled.. should you do the research

2. stop thinking bitcoin just needs one dev team heading up the rule decision process, because that mindset is centralist mindset. vetting rule proposals and vetoing anyone that opposes that single teams vision is not a way to grow a civilisation, but a way of growing an tyrannical government should that team become political, which i think your suggesting that a crypto become political.

3. its more reliable then other payment systems. other payment systems have chargebacks. require ID to authorise payments. require bank managers to authorise payments over $500, limit spending amounts, requires people to manually process and observe transactions. bitcoin is a clear open self audit system that does not take 3-5 days to settle. and does not still have risks of chargebacks after settlement.
yes its not perceived as being "quick". but that could have been sorted with a few lines of code to ensure that transactions are not open to a free market of letting pools capitalise on which transactions to let in. but instead have a transaction priority of a first come first serve bases

trying to assume a capitalist / aristocracy model works is like saying lets just make banks be banks, because they already are a capitalist/aristocratic system.
if you just want to evolve the old banking system to being crypto. then go research hyperledger

meanwhile we should concentrate on bring bitcoin back out of the 2014+ agenda of being capitalist/aristocratic and make it more civilised open community of no barrier of entry, no centralist, no permissioned(co-signed) mindset it once was pre 2014

jes but banks are nationalists/racists/communists

enginering foundations aren't

the currencies of banks are just thank yous,

currencies of engineering foundations are even two dimensional as i said technically socio economic sources.

the population earns the generativity of its environment,

the engineering foundations have the challenge, to find workers for whatever task they set themselves wherever they are.

they cant overspend they must follow a evaluation estimation that is based on organic calories,

this way the creation of organic calories will become the most secure economic sector and there will be food security everywhere, not like its currently with bitcoin where bitcoin mining is most secure business in the financial system

i think you dont understand what communist really means

communist is centralist.
capitalist is where rich aristocratics get the hands on communist money
socialist is where the civilians get the hands on the communist money

libertarian is decentralist
capitalist is where the rich benefit the most from lack of central control
socialist is where the civilians benefit the most from the lack of central control

so break it down
1. your capitalist aristocratic, one brand one currency. sounds like you want a communist:capitalist organisation running things
2. your civilisation of fair, non racist, open, no barrier system sounds like you want a libertarian:socialist open world running things

answer simply 1 or 2 which is your preference more aligned with

Then what do you propose for a system that will completely replace the banks? I don't like the banks either but I'm forced to use them since I have to finance my business/house etc., but for the common people they work well and gets the job done, and we do know that the people of this current generation don't want to overcomplicate things as long as they are working, so the change wouldn't be accepted immediately. I'm pretty sure, bitcoin was created for the civilization before speculation and capitalists arrived in the economy, and in the end you should blame the capitalists and not bitcoin itself for ruining a tool that could help liberate people from their financial woes from the banks and the governments.

1. i want a financial system that gives/adds/edit socioeconomic generativity to the economy.

like it is the case on any urban planet, we will have an open one

Why not replace the bank's infrastructure with something better, because banks can only borrow and save our money, they cannot make money without making a business or producing goods or services that our money can save in the bank, another case with bitcoin that can indeed make money in the form of coins by following a bounty.

I never ever understood why this electricity power hungry carbon dumping argument ever got traction (I found it online even on old slides shown by economists in 2013/14). There's a lot of intangible benefit and plenty of tangible ones too to securing a network - which is one problem when talking about mining and generating new coins, that people forget miners are there firstly to secure the entire thing.

We're wasting infinitely more power playing games, leaving TVs on standby, watching cat videos... but nothing's a waste if it brings something that people want.

in bitcoin world-> mining bitcoin is most secury asset business -> surplus of miners

in engineering foundation world -> carbon fixed orienation (wheat, corn) is most secure business -> surplus of food producation

mature adult bitcoiners dont say it.
is the teenagers who read old posts that they can get near free bitcoin using their desktop computer who then find out they read an outdated article because now bitcoin needs specialist machines.

in short its teenagers that are butt hurt because their moms complain about the electricity bill
funny part is. if bitcoin went back to CPU mining. todays 32xahasn would need trillions. yep i said it trillions of CPU's

people dont realise that an asic is multiple million times more efficient than a CPU

kingscorpio:
here is a novel concept..

imagine instead of banks creating money by getting loan applicants to sign a promissory note to magic up new credit as fresh cash..(PoS)

imagine instead of farmers creating money by mining the ground for assets to sell as fresh cash..(PoW)

imagine a world where the education system creates money by students studying real work skills and their grades(scholastic credit) became the cash that they could spend.
EG the better you study/better grade you got the more cash you get.

thus then removes a whole education sector out of needing a government tax treasury. because the education sector becomes self funding.

oh boy we surely will get a cash free society this way.

people work for money that

1. others value and use
2. think its good for them to work for, in the long term.

for bitcoin only 1st is partially the case, people dont want to use it.

im not talking about current education system of butts on seats, shut up and listen to teacher schooling.
im talking about practical work skills education system.

EG teenagers WORK is education
adults WORK in on the job training and upskilling for promotion/payrise

take nurses and doctors. spending 3-10 years training to specialise in their medical profession earn enough credit to give them a good salary. where the funds unlock if their shown as employed

this would take out the whole debt/banking issues. and innovate the education/work skills area.
people will then want to work harder and get promotions which means retraining/upskilling themselves to accumulate more scholastic credit to earn a promotion and get to unlock their spendable credit

im thinking more about improving civilisation where each and everyone has a chance to earn,.. if they put effort into it

People are used to the fact that they are comfortable, they are afraid of the new and unknown, I think that it would be necessary that it took some time that people began to trust the crypto currency and use it on a par with traditional currencies around the world !

Though it's a good thing to ponder about, i think we're not yet primed for changes like that. I mean, we've all grown so used to the current system that many of us would think nothing else would work. We need to have open minds for that.

I think the biggest reason here is we don't own them. Banks are owned by billionaires asking them to change their infrastructure even nicely won't even change the thing. The only way we can change it is if the banks themselves see that their business is in trouble and the only way to do it is to adapt to the situation. But even that could not work as of course their main business which is lending money is always not affected by the demand as they always find a lot of people who is willing to loan out cash from them.

current system isnt really interested giving people a long term generative foundation, thats its problem, its all about privatisation of income sources, so i want to create an opposing force that gives away sources, instead of scamming all and privatising everything and using them as money earning cattle.

current old system just needs a competitive network that is serious about interacting with the real world and the economy and not with digital markets!!!

yes banks as just custodians is not where banks profit.
they profit from creating cash X via signed promissory notes(bonds, mortgage agreements and credit cards) where people then pay them x+y.

they create X and get back at a later date X+Y. and the person who signed the agreement spends X and then has to work to earn X+Y to ensure they dont end up losing out on what they spend X on

banks never lose because the initial X is a zero cost game to them.
the only cost banks have is people and systems that feed off the latter X+Y when it returns back to them. which they now want blockchains to manage so that they can sack lots of staff, cut down on servers needed and let their blockchains do the auditing so that the X+Y they get back is pure profit.
thus no upfront cost and no latter cost

i repeat,

banks are today either

A: racists

or

B: communists,

the people dont wont either.

i prefer replacing them with institutions that constructively interact with their environment

thats it,

just look at the currency the saudis created.

just because the banksters are valuing it, the entire population becomes the money earning cattle under it

banks enrich themselves at the expense of all others anyway, and have huge massive costs. just so people think they are important.

regards

banks are dependent on the population trusting them,