Bitcoin Forum

Hi everyone,

Please watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THAaIZmxfNA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THAaIZmxfNA)

Quantity of money per unit of output and price index is deeply intricate. At the end of the day, the more cryptocurrency is produced without needed and real usage in economy the lower the value of your crypto assets.

  Inflation is not a good words in the country like Philippines and to others country that belong in the third world country and so stressful. So because of that I can choose money to can manage to support my needs and my family.

I loved the story part :D Sir that will be 250 thousand dollars for the next three minutes :D That could be reality one day, I mean of course not in 20 years because even in 20 years the three minute conversations won't be that expensive but lets take a look at the previous 20 years and what people have come so far.

Since the year of 2000, people on average had to endure 2% inflation in USA. That means every year put up 2% on top of the thing you want. That means no matter what you had to become richer by 2%+ in order to not lose value in the things you own. Now houses of course made the most leap until 2008 but since than there has been a bit of drought, prices did dropped a bit and than went up again a bit but the volume has been issue.

Salaries didn't increase at all compared to 60+ years ago let alone 20 years ago, the salaries stayed around the same or just a bit more whereas inflation is increasing. Investments made huge leaps but than crashed at 2008 and than made another huge leap and crashed this year. Basically while inflation was going on, people didn't get richer to cover the difference.

Are you basing this on the supply of a particular cryptocurrency, or the number of different cryptocurrencies which are in existence?
Most projects out a limit on the supply of their base tokens or coins, so only so much can be created, I would not invest in a project with an infinite supply,  or one which does not burn unsold tokens.

As for the number of available cryptocurrencies, this matters little as majority of the market is shared among the few at the top of the rankings.

I don't see why having an infinite supply should be a problem.

Let's say for example, you have a crypto-currency that sees its usage (and velocity) grow by 100% every year, and the coins supply grows something like 5-6% per year. Then you won't see an overflow of coins depending on the supply. Plus Blockchains could have a rule, something like : "no activity, no transaction, no new coins".

Same for burning or not, the important part is : Are people dumping the supply below market rate (on a speculator point of view I mean).

Now the real problem is that Central Banks now belong to private banks, and new money doesn't get back in the market through increase of salaries but through loans that are provided to people who already have capital.

For employees, best way to have capital is through real estate, this kind of investment and wealth takes 30 years to build. More time, slower, less and less people that are employees can get rich.

Money and inflation
When there is high demand for goods and services may as much cause a rise in import, and importation of goods and services from an affected inflation country, we definitely be inflated.
What is the effect of inflation??
Inflation causes an increase in overall price level within an economy.

Inflation is not good in our country here in the Philippines and it affects the economy and it hurts people especially those who do not have fulltime jobs hard to spend on inflation. If you're talking about money, I'd rather choose money because money can control how much money you need and how much you can spend on your needs and also you can manage what you need to buy each day for our family needs.

I'm curious where you got the wage rates from 60 years ago

I remember seeing a table with wage rates per hour depending on occupation and starting from 20's of the past century. Their rise was quite on par with inflation, so it is unlikely that wages remained the same in absolute value in the last 60+ years. Care to reveal the source of your data?

Apart from that, people are prone to make lopsided conclusions without taking into account all relevant factors such as technological advances and breakthroughs as well as increases in productivity. So while the price of things like food and clothes remained mostly the same, you can't say the same in respect to things like computers, cars, home appliances, etc, which either didn't exist 60 years ago (personal computers) or were quite expensive (automobiles)

right, salaries in their work should be calculated correctly by the government, so that they are in accordance with the increase in inflation that occurs. so that the people are not more miserable because they are caught up in inflation

I wonder about this myself, and I've been expecting a crypto meltdown for a while now--not just bitcoin, but all the altcoins and tokens too.  If there's absolutely no barrier to entry to create a currency, and if there isn't any real-world utility in those currencies, how does anyone in their right mind expect them to hold any value?

I don't have any figures as to how many new coins are being produced every year, but I've seen exchanges like Yobit where there are hundreds of them, mostly dead ones that you wouldn't be able to sell at any price.  That's the fate that I'm expecting for most altcoins--forget about inflation; they're going to be worth ZERO. 

Big investors who put money into crypto aren't buying shitcoins like TRUMP or even dogecoin.  I'm pretty sure what they buy is bitcoin & ETH if they invest in crypto at all.  They're also probably trying to make a quick buck, too, as opposed to making a long-term investment. 

I mentioned dogecoin.  That's a coin that's going to have a theoretically unlimited supply if it survives long enough, because there's no cap on how many coins are going to be mined.  If it had a cap, it might be useful in commerce, but it's pretty much always traded pretty cheap.  And that's just one of hundreds of altcoins in existence.  All of these coins are causing "inflation" if only for the fact that there's only so much fiat money being invested into crypto.  There are too many cryptocurrencies in existence and demand doesn't keep up with it.

You posted about inflation. Inflation an attribute of money. Crypto's are a kind of money... Or?
What is your opinion - about this question (and about the thread, ideas behind)?


And a diskussion about Bitcoin on the reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/9u2men/a_criticism_of_bitcoin_as_a_kind_of_money_and_a/

Dogecoin is not a shitcoin

There is no hype in it, it is not even actively developed any more, but its price is pretty resilient (in bitcoins). This tells us a very important thing which most people fail to see. That Dogecoin is likely among the top 10 or even 5 coins with most real world adoption. As its price is ridiculously low, it is very useful for online gambling, and that gives it value. You may not like gambling (which I understand), but this is real use any way you look at it

Also, while doges are not capped, their supply inflation diminishes every year in relative terms (percentages). It means that the coin's monetary base growth is slowing down, and now it is already pretty much insignificant and comparable to capped coins. Bitcoin's monetary base is also expanding if you didn't know, so from any practical point of view the end result (in terms of new coins mined) is not much different

That's the reason why cryptocurrencies have a limited supply. This happens in order to tackle supply. As Bitcoin (for example) will be near to reach its total supply then the price and value is going to increase as people will know that this is the change to get some more of it.  On the contrary, you can see that Federal Banks and Financial institutions print money all the time in order to stabilize economies and give bailouts. Your statement is true, but it has no application to cryptos.

Yes, that’s the same thing what is being said a lot of times here that the price of Bitcoin in the market is based on the rate of demand and supply. That’s just the same thing as you’re saying, when there are lots of crypto being supplied and nobody is buying them, the crypto assets will begin to lose value and those that are in possession of the assets will be losing their money (and the price continues to decline as they sell too). It’s just the same thing.

It is always the case that the inflation hurts us even when we do not realize or ignore it.Overtime, the money you own become worthless.that is why it is always a better deal to put your money in real assets that grows faster than the average inflation rate over time

Totally agree with most of comments. The inflation make me think there are not point to save money at all, you can imagine the money you save, after 10 years it is worthless, so why not spend them now, but then what happened if we need money if we don’t have saving. I think this is why I like bitcoin, there are limit of supply.

Inflation rises when there’s a calamilty and of course the manipulators. Its bad because a lot of cartel on our place and they are really trying to control the price so they have more profit and yeah, the politicians has no will to control that at all, also include the new tax reform or the train law which affect much the price of the basic goods. In terms of cryptocurrency this is just like a law of demand and supply, if there’s a big supply and no demand at law then expect that price to be more cheap.

your theory is right and I'm sure many agree. I've discussed this in the bitcoin thread, that indeed if a coin of bitcoin does not have a function for economic value, then the price will be difficult to rise due to the absence of functional value. even though the supply is added, it will be useless because there is no function.

In the economy there is a rule; As the money supply increases, the inflation rate increases in the long term. But the situation here is not to limit money production, but not to print more of the determined money supply. In other words, as long as any country raises money under certain rules, money does not lose money because of inflation, but if any country exceeds this amount of money and continues to print money, then the inflation rate in that country increases and the country's money loses value. On the other hand, for cryptos, the total supply of many cryptocurreny is clear and this supply cannot be changed. Therefore, it is not possible to see an event like inflation in the cryptocurrency sector. Of course, in case of increasing the amount of supply, loss of reputation in the market and serious depreciation are also inevitable.

In real life it is way more complicated than that

Basically, an increase in money supply doesn't always lead to an increase in price inflation rates as the relationship between them can be quite complicated. On fundamental level, price inflation level depends not only on money supply as such but also on the economic growth. For example, if the economic growth outpaces the growth in monetary base, that can lead to price deflation even despite a positive money supply

Inflation is and always will be a reaction to the bad financial policies established, with cryptocurrencies there is hardly this problem, because it has a behavior that almost depends on bitcoin, and the other currencies follow them, but why? If you start to study the bitcoin graph, it has structure, and many altcoin have structure very similar to bitcoin, but it is because they do not have a life of their own, if we see other currencies, they have their graphs completely meaningless, this is because the currencies basically depend on pump and dump, hence the term that they are all shitcoin until proven otherwise, in some texts like those of Burton, Livermore and Wyckoff they talk a lot about OFFER-DEMAND, and yes, when the market is released is very difficult to have inflation, inflation is like a parasite for every economy, in the case of Venezuela, the economy or some economist can not explain this phenomenon, because it had never presented under any scenario have a country that entails a inflation that its projection will be 3000000%, however, they depend a lot on the bad policies established by the government, the only solution to these problems I see it with an exit from Cryptocurrencies, but bitcoin, if some country takes bitcoin as an alternative source, not only would it have some kind of liquidity, but the bitcoin would be so moved that it would attract the investors of the miniSP500, or SP500 because the amount of money that is could gestate is a lot, economic problems would be solved that have no solution in days or can in hours (This is my theory) I have there and with my knowledge of the market that would propose it.

Fist money is designed in such a way to get deflated by the days passes,that is the reason we want to better currency against the defaltion and satoshi believed bitcoin can be one of it so created it in decentralized way and made finite number of coins can be obtained through mining.

Even if you have the money, when inflation strikes to your country you will feel the rise of price of your basic commodities. Also I don't think you can earn much if there is inflation on the basic needs to sustain your daily consumptions.

Try Venezuela, one million percent inflation last year, some sources say two million...
Last time i checked, Philippines have not pegged their currency since the 70ies. So as much as you hate it, you are still far better than you could be...

If you like to watch videos, watch this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x5WkNxbvLFc/hqdefault.jpg
📉📈 Inflation and Deflation | A Hidden Tax (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5WkNxbvLFc)

To put some context of Venezuela:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Venezuela_historic_inflation_vs._oil_revenue.png (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Venezuela_historic_inflation_vs._oil_revenue.png)

1983,	4 VEB	= 1 USD.
2004,	1,600 VEB	= 1 USD.
2008,	2,150 VEB	= 1 USD.
2019,	300,000,000,000 VEB	= 1 USD.

1 USD in 1983 means $2.53 today, so take that into account...

In 2008 the VEB was replaced by the VEF, slashing three zeroes.
In 2018, the VEF was replaced by the VES, slashing five zeroes.


In the meantime..:

https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/upload/en/images/c/cf/Bitcoin_history_price.jpg (https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/upload/en/images/c/cf/Bitcoin_history_price.jpg)

2009,	1 BTC	= 0 USD.
2009,	1 BTC	= 300 USD.
2019,	1 BTC	= 4000 USD.

hearing the word inflation, really this is very scary, and right if crypto is made continuously it will lose its value but this is a race, if crypto is made by a great project and has loyal users it will not lose its value, so I think all projects have the right to making crypto and for crypto value problems from each project will be different

So the fewer the supply, the better value it gets. This kind of stuff is very common already and that it both applies to fiats and cryptocurrencies. The only way to inflate is to stop producing and keep on using then it should inflate.

indeed with the increasing number of projects, the need for bitcoin is even greater. so that it will maintain stability and even price increases. but with a note that the project must be healthy, if the opposite happens, it will hamper development, and certainly cannot offset the inflation rate

Yes money is very important to us because it our source to live a good life but inflation is one of the problem in every country its make economy  market in high price , but there a solution with this if the salary of every workers  are going up too. If we have a good salary worker the inflation is can affects us. But how about the little people that cannot earn to much money thats why inflation is not good . Every country need a equality to the community and that is the one solution that i think.

Interesting video. Pretty sure I've seen at least part of it before.


I personally don't think that the creation of other crypto assets or projects necessarily will depreciate the value of bitcoins. It may decrease the market share of bitcoins in the overall crypto market, but since the crypto assets that are on sale with an initial public offering right now are completely different from bitcoin in nature (a lot probably can't even be classified as 'currency').

What will affect bitcoin's value and inflation is the rate at which it's being produced at, which right now is 12.5. The growth of bitcoin's supply is controlled, which is extremely different from the system that fiat operates in which can often leading to debasement of currency in a very short amount of time due to government mismanagement.

What you say regarding bitcoin produced without an increase in demand in the economy for BTC leading to inflation is true, but right now, I think the rate of adoption far exceeds what bitcoin's inflation figures are. And the beauty of a disinflationary system like bitcoin is that as adoption stops growing as fast as BTC gets widely adopted, so does the rate of growth in the money supply.

I think things are more complicated. People are greedy, and what is even worse, their greed is in fact insatiable. When they had earned something via Bitcoin, they got used to these profits coming their way, and then they started looking for ways to get even more dough. So they chose to leave Bitcoin, fully or partially, and invest in something else. But something else here is synonymous with scams, fraudulent schemes and similar stuff. In simple terms, the idea of value dilution through myriads of shitcoins seems quite legit

And it is definitely not about the market share, of course

Inflation is a wide fire that consumes a country economy and renders the masses into below average standard of living. You witness a mass poverty in a country that is suffering from inflation. It must likely devalues the currency.

However, a citizen that has his money or income in foreign currency tend to live like a king because he has so much value in money to purchase products, invest and sustain himself.

That's why its important to not just blindly put your money on some coin that you know that has no real use in the real world cause it will surely pump and dump. Will its probably up to you if you want to speculate on its price. Everyday new tokens arrive with no concept or new idea to introduce in the crypto space that's how they turn into shitcoins.

I have been saying for a long time that what is happening on the exchanges of cryptocurrencies is no good. You can not spend so much ICO every day and add so many new projects, because it looks like inflation. The more currencies the less valuable they are. By reducing the number of tokens, it may be possible to increase the price of the most promising projects.

It is because of the division of investment.
Another is the fact that someone is buying those new tokens.

One thing that I have been pushing here since before.
If you want your altcoins to grow in value then keep on pushing bitcoin first. If not, then we will be staying in this kind of market forever.
All of these coins are just going to stay in one price just like how bitcoin is right now. Hate to say it but it is true.

As I have read ICO production are now getting lower. It must be really stopped before we end up getting low values because of the amount of money coming out to them without even good usage.

Product is more important than everything and as we can see, past ICO's dont even have it. It is just an imaginary product and the bad thing is they are being supported without it.

Maybe we should be supporting those who are established by now and not like the greed to take that big profit by risking too much.

For developing countries or third world countries of course inflation is a scourge that sometimes can make you poor suddenly,
you must be smart for this, save your wealth in commodities that are not affected by inflation such as gold or silver

right, indeed putting money on one asset such as gold is a good choice so that it is not affected by inflation. moreover we can have property, certainly not only unaffected by inflation, but the increase in property prices is greater than inflation. currently there are other options for investing, where many people call it digital gold

And that's the major reason why most coins after listing never rise again,this are coins that cannot offer anything whatsoever,the idea behind them was poorly thought and never in a million years will there be any demand for it, as its use is not viable in real times.
Before I invest in a project,i must understand what the project is all about,and that's not just on the beginning stage but I'm talking of right into the future,it must be one I feel in years to come it'll still be viable and cannot go extinct

inflation is about a change that people are especially grateful especially in the Philippines that are very influential in the changing economies of the country because of this many disagreements in the government, it is difficult to buy because of expensive cost. often the government is the ones they follow they do not know that there are many difficulties and distresses and all they suffer

yes indeed inflation is very dangerous for all countries, both developed, developing and backward countries. My country of inflation can be overcome in various ways but few opportunities to reduce inflation

In every beginning it`s like that, this wave of new crypto currencies, coins and tokens built on some platform will not last forever. Something like crystallization, we will see bad ones falling off, and good ones will make a beautiful stone. Money is just a medium of exchange, before couple thousands years money was in the form of small knives and spades, we have money in the form of gold and silver, now we have paper bills and from recently credit cards, crypto currencies are the next step in evolution. All of them have some similarities, pros and cons, but each of them is special for something. Some crypto assets have real usage already and high value, don`t believe in every video from youtube.

money and inflation are fears that make the government take unilateral decisions like crypto currencies are prohibited from being used in the country for fear of inflation

The United States government will continue to pump out money so they can artificially raise the stock market up, this scam has been going on for decades and has gotten worse once they went off the gold standard.  at least bitcoin has no central party that can just print money like the FED.

If it is going to last another decade or two, then it doesn't really matter

Though I feel certain that it will last for longer, much longer, while the American dollar will be the last to bite the dust and kick the bucket. If this scam has been going on for years, why did it not end already? Or maybe, they are in fact doing everything right after all? If they are pumping out money like there's no tomorrow, we should expect at least 2-digit inflation rates, right? But inflation in the US has been one of the lowest in the world in the last years. How come?