Bitcoin Forum

We, we, we!
We're being super-foolish into believing that regulations will actually add some extra value to the crypto space, well you'd now ask "Why?"

Hey, but regulations are good, eh? Why the heck are you so much burnt in your ass that you're talking like this about Governments?
We've been brought down with the purpose of getting our "one and only pseudonymous asset" being sold to (literally stolen away by) these Governments who're showing a lollipop to us in the name of regulations because they want to have a hold on us by knowing who holds how much in their portfolio and send them to jail whenever they want to, for any fucking reason.

But, but, regulations are going to move the price up, you know Bakkt?
Yeah, that institutional platform by parent company ICE (Intercontinental exchange) of NYSE, so-called Bakkt. You know something? Why the hell are they delaying their launch? People are so optimistic about the launch of this super-platform (yeah, I call it that because it's not just an ordinary exchange) but the reason why it's not coming up are the regulations that are stopping it. So, when their Government is not even allowing a platform to launch their services, do you really believe their regulations and the mix of old traditional banking system and crypto will make it up to something positive happenings in the future? Well, I don't think so, because then they can either stop it at any single place or if they ever decide to just shut down everything, nobody in the world can do anything as we're the ones who took interest in getting everything ^regulated^ and think that it would increase the value of BTC. Don't you think that without the intervention of these so-called regulated firms which allow institutional investors to short BTC, BTC and all the alts were doing much better and BTC would have already crossed the 30k, maybe 40-50k levels?


P.S.: It's my personal opinion and can't say about others, but think at least a hundred times and then decide, whether we really need this or are we going to be bound by their so-called rules once everything gets into their hands? We'll be nothing more than their sockpuppets and they will leave us with nothing but regrets.

I think the debate on regulation really comes down to a debate on two definitions of value, monetary value (these people are all for regulation as it brings legitimacy and new money) and intrinsic value (utility), (these people are mostly against further regulation because it's a movement towards centralization and away from the ideals of bitcoin. Which one is right is merely a matter of opinion.

In a real world economy, the price of an asset goes up when the demand increases. The demand increases only when the particular assets is circulated throughout the economy and every parties involved in a transaction want to use that assets.

Lets take an example of USD. Majority of the world trade are done by USD as a transaction medium. That one factor, keeps the demand of USD higher which push its value to remain at the top. Now lets implement the same rule in crypto world.

I personally believe, regulation will be good for the crypto economy because it will increase the adoption rate which will further increase the circulation on bitcoin pushing the demand higher. Remember, I am not referring to over-regulation here. A simple regulation means an acceptance notification notifying cryptos as a legal tender along with  pre-specified tax slabs as per the market standard.

This kind of regulation will actually encourage a lot of online/offline merchants to begin accepting cryptocurrency as a method of payment alongside fiat. It will encourage a lot of people to take their service fees in cryptos. Overall acceptance rate will be increased which will push the demand and circulation to another notch higher. This is one single factor that can drive immense growth in the crypto market for good.

Just my two cents!

I really don't like regulation for crypto, I dont like that the governments or banker involve in crypto, but they got power, in ordee to become big we need their permit, if most of the countries banning crypto then the crypto growth could be stuck, if the government doesn't interfere anything then we don't need the etf, bakkt to elevate the price, the investors just need a more secure investment, an insurance that their investment won't suddenly being block

I understand the fact you're trying to explain here, but if we assume based on the dump itself, there must have been a lot of demand from the 20k level till the current 3-4k level range because if it wasn't there, then BTC would have gone straight down to 0 and the value would have ended in grave if and only if there wasn't the demand you're talking about.


You're correct at one stance that when the demand goes down (esp. for the major crypto like BTC, the whole market including alts and tokens as well as ICOs will see a downfall due to the parent crypto falling to the ground levels). But we're talking about regulations here, and with them, I don't really see average people getting any good profits (considering BTC an asset) when everything will go in the hands of Governments and the so-called institutional investors will surely take charge and throw crypto at such a value where such average investors like us won't be able to buy even 0.01 BTC. They are currently playing with the markets making us helpless to sell almost all our stock to them and this is their biggest win, after which they'll start to take the value up because currently, it's the accumulation phase. Come on! BTC has now come in their eyes and it's not a big deal for them to take control.

If you're saying that crypto should be considered as a legal tender and be allowed to hold the name of a currency, then that's not possible due to it's highly volatile nature and uncertain pumps and dumps.


Merchants are already accepting crypto through various different ways and the only fear for those not accepting it is its volatility, the fear of getting dumped. Regulations with futures are making it possible for big dogs to short it and steal away the remaining BTC in smaller wallets to be added to their huge-sized wallets, this makes them more and more powerful and the one and only thing - cryptocurrencies - which can be bought/sold/traded pseudonymously (even anonymously in some cases) over few centralized as well as decentralized exchanges, will then get into the hands of these bigger authorities who will never let us make the correct use of our rights once again.

Regulation is not part of satoshi's vision but for mass adoption it will be needed in developed countries. Bakkt will help investors jump on board, and allow large retailers to accept it as a form of payment

Volatility is not the only fear for the merchants for sure! It's just one of the many factors that is discouraging merchants to accept cryptos. The main reason is the absence of legal regulation in their jurisdiction. Majority of the merchants and store owners are legal entities and they just don't want to indulge into something which is not legal in their jurisdiction.

Like in my country, the finance ministry stated that "cryptocurrencies will not be considered as a legal tender" and they have also ordered banks to stop providing banking services to any crypto related businesses. This notification resulted some crypto related businesses to move their operations onshore. One prominent example is Zebpay which was one of the most prominent crypto exchanges from my country.

So volatility come later, firstly the options of accepting cryptos as a method of payment should be available through proper regulation. Without regulation, I don't see much hope for cryptos to be accepted by merchants worldwide. 

It is good for some point until the government pulls the trigger and do some random, weird stuff that will remind us that not everything legal translates to positive things. For now, Bakkt's launch is delayed by the CFTC, and there isn't a time-frame to which they'd be able to do a full launch. I don't mind having a mix of government, capitalists
 and crypto as long as crypto doesn't lose its identity and its supposed task. But from the looks of it, it seems that crypto is slowly losing sight of its roots ever since capitalists and governments set foot on the crypto ecosystem.

When it comes to regulations,I only care about one thing.Are cryptocurrencies legal in the big jurisdictions.
This is the only important regulation we need.All the other regulations,such as KYC policies are kinda pointless, if you ask me.A KYC policy won't stop the scammers from scamming the naive people.

Well it's legality of course can determine whether we can go forward or not since crypto won't survive being illegalized. Those smaller regulations i think would help in securing that legality. Yeah there won't be any safety from hackers and scammers but it'll at least bring confidence to new investors.

Merchants have still been using it, allowing it even before any legality and regulations were ever discussed before, that 10k BTC pizza was bought when nothing was being regulated.


The country you're talking about, is the country I live in. I believe that most people in our Government have got poops in their minds and based on their own stupid analogies, they're giving silly statements that BTC is ponzi, BTC is too volatile to be regulated, etc. Now, when they are seeing that too much money can be made through this investment (though risky, but still highly rewarding) and they can either put people in jail for various unreasonable reasons or take huge taxes over gains from this, they're now going to regulate these markets. Tell me, why the heck were they stopping everything (including banks) from dealing with crypto-related exchanges? And what's the guarantee that after taking a full hold of everyone's finances in crypto space, they won't stop everything once again and take back everything from us when BTC would once again be at its new peak?

I am more or less interested in this statement. Actually the fact is Government has always been slowest decision maker, but that is for a reason. For example : They may need to think very much futuristic, that is they need to predict what may go right and wrong if they do allow such non-conventional system to take over the current traditional banking sectors.

That may be the reason they are not allowing such institutions to take effect immediately. Think about the G20 summit and countries involved! Why do you think they are even having so many meet ups on crypto currency matter?

May be everyone is trying to set up and plan a system that will be well regulated for the sake of banks and crypto as well.

in short
pro for regulation people
1: "price rise. let loads of people in so i can exit and return to fiat as a millionaire" (facepalm)

con for regulation
1: unbanked need a bank,
2: need an ID,
3: need minimum deposit to cover the fee's of regulated custodians labour and insurances
4: upper limits of withdrawals
5: risk of funds bing frozen simply because you want all your funds out in one go
6: have to be questioned why you want your funds out
7: extra bureaocracy and big costs for people who want to start businesses
8: it doesnt put custodians in prison
9: it only inprisons custodians who didnt register and pay regulators fee's
10: scammers still scam but can now just say they are bankrupt
11: people cant freely use funds for any purpose anywhere any time. they have to obide by laws

..
im all for things like 'consumer protection' laws that can help identify custodians and actually let victims of malicious custodians get a fair and available route to redress/compensation. but regulations is not actually consumer protection.
regulation is to turn custodians into police police to monitor and control its customers

In Bitcoin, a constant expectation is created as I do not understand. And these expectations are not pricing. The expectation created through the ETF for months was completely wasted.
We are now forced to focus on BAKKT. BAKKT will not bring any price increase.

You ask why?

Simple! The purpose of the introduction of this type of platforms, including BAKKT, is to fully profit. The purpose of making profit is not to benefit the market. There is a saying in my country. "CASHIER ALWAYS WINS!"

No! Your thoughts are worth more than $2million! This is exactly my position and I always equate the good regulation would do to the crypto industry borrowing a leaf from the Forex Trading industry. Regulation will help instill discipline and sanity and confidence and security into this crypto sector once it happens. And this will expectedly push demand and price value up.

who is supposed to regulate? the corruption of the cryptofounders? like its currently the case?

crypto is anti state, anti police, anti government, anti regulated banks, so how can it be regulated, even if there is a regulation (corruption), sharia law, it still doesnt make it something universally trustworthy

Nothing can stop regulations especially with the view of protecting the investing public from people who can just be using the cryptocurrency platform in order to exploit other people. This can be debatable yes but if we have to move forward and regain back the trust and confidence of the public there is a big need for some regulations. The regulations I am talking about should not meant to kill the industry but make things fairer and more transparent. Again, that can also be very debatable but cryptocurrency could not live in a bubble or an island all to its own...we have to face reality and should build on the lessons of the past many years.

Futuristic? Really?
They had more than 8 years (if I'm not wrong, BTC recently turned 10 which means crypto world can now be said to have crossed a decade) to learn and understand, research as well as measure the risks and positive as well as negative sides of crypto, why are they interfering now only when everything has already been set up and they're only trying to show that they did this for us and that we're nothing and/or go nowhere without regulations?



Do you really think they're going to do everything for your and my good? No, they are going to do everything for their own good as it's their business, yeah I said that right that it's their business to present it that they are helping us in order to have the supremacy maintained because that's when people like us will say that "Our government is too good they're understanding what we're trying to convince them for".

I think regulation is inevitable. Every time there's a threat of some goverment cracking down on Bitcoin, Bitcoin drops in price (I'm specifically thinking about the FUD coming from China around 1.5 years ago).
And since it's inevitable, it's better to get it over with so the FUD stops and Bitcoin can continue to mature. If you want privacy and anonymity, you'll have to guard yourself from government anyway.

Regulation of cryptocurrencies is something that can't be kept at bay for any long, it's must take effect very soon and as it stands now it seems to be unavailable. The regulation will leadto bigger adoption, taking Bitcoin mainstream amd bringing in so many institutional investors and other bigger players.

if we think crypto / bitcoin will be like USD then what will happen is that bitcoin is worth stabilizing without a high increase, this in my opinion will reduce the interest of big traders to bitcoin, government regulation will be a bitcoin value like fiat money which can be controlled by the government itself that's just my personal thought

I think it depend on a type of regulation a particular country might want to impose. Countries with strict laws are usually the one that imposes strict regulations that may eventually affect or hurt the cryptocurrency market in that place. Other countries has crypto friendly regulation with an aim to protect its people from scams and other illegal activities. Regulation is seem to be inevitable because a group of wealthy countries have been planning to impose it in the near future.

There are "good" regulations and there are "bad" regulations. The BitLicense in NY is a example of "bad" regulations, because it was implemented to complicate and stall Bitcoin adoption, because it was too complicated and expensive for most people to adhere to.

The Japanese government are pulling the right strings with their self-regulation proposals, because it is not restrictive or too complex to adhere to and it encourage innovation. <This is an example of "good" regulations>  ;)

That was a mare exception buddy! There was stories about a lady who bought a car using bitcoin as well. But can we consider this as a mass adoption?? Definitely not! But to see mass adoption of bitcoin or other cryptos, we need regulation so that it can be considered as a legal tender. The way we are using paytm (since you are from my country, you will understand), probably then we will be able to use bitcoin for our daily transactions. Without regulation it is not possible!

I reiterate, that I don't support over regulation like Japan is trying to do. A simple regulation is what I am supporting! 


I truly support this statement! Our government doesn't have much understanding of cryptos and that's why they have stated that bitcoin is a ponzi. The problem here is with the society itself, where you need to have post graduation to get a private company job but no education requirement to become a political leader. Even if there are bureaucrats helping them to understand the matter, the decision making power is still on that politician. 


Our government is stopping banks from providing service to crypto related businesses is a precaution from larger impact. Frankly, I don't have much hope on our government that they will understand the power and impact of crypto. However, at some point of time, if they legalize crypto and later decides to ban it, they can't provide retrospective effect on that.

Just for an example, lets assume that alcohol is legal in your state and you enjoyed few pegs at your home today. Now if the state government decides to ban alcohol from 15th January, they can't arrest you for the drinks you had on 6th January. That's unethical and no political administration will do that thinking of their votebank.

It doesn't matter what our feelings are, the people who run many of the most popular services are running towards it. The regulators themselves certainly will not turn a blind eye.

The best outcome is that regulated crypto becomes so enormous that the need to move back into fiat fades away. At that point regulators are screwed if they want to retain control. It will fly away like a randy birdie.

Of course by that point there'll be crypto banks bossing you around but also huge advances in decentralised exchanges and wallets plus enough people with the appetite and tools to shun attempts to control them. Imagine what Venezuela would look like if there was a closed loop crypto economy there that was simply uninterested and had no requirement for the Bolivar.

I agree, regulations are inevitable and governments cannot let a market like this to be unregulated but if they try to take control over the market with their regulations then investors will simply avoid that jurisdiction and move to countries with less restricting laws, Japan is understanding this correctly they want to get the prosperity that cryptocurrencies will bring and are only introducing enough regulation to not scare investors away but if at some point they change their posture then investors will leave.

Most people say that the regulation violates the basic rules of Bitcoin.
But isn't the main purpose of a bitcoin to become legal tender? I think we should make some sacrifices.

I wouldn't say the aim was to become legal tender, though that can be helpful. The aim is to be a currency that anyone anywhere can use without having to seek the permission of someone else. That makes it entirely voluntary between the person sending it and the person receiving it.

In the future there'll be places where it will be possible to pay taxes with it while in other countries it might be a criminal offence to even possess it. Neither matters between the two parties transacting.

I've read some more things about the VanEck and SolidX ETF with physically backed Bitcoin Futures, I don't really know whether it'll be good for us or not because it's going to increase liquidity but will surely decrease the volatility, so stability is what these investors are looking for? As well, for these to happen, regulations are needed to come in action. The only fear I have is, even if everything goes right and BTC gets regulated the good way as you said, isn't there a possibility that after having a complete hold on the crypto space, Governments will let things go smooth and will not interfere in the ongoing works and developments as well as any/all parts of crypto and/or even use their power to stop it from the roots? Is it going to be a permanent solution or just a lollipop or a bubble gum that will pop whenever they want it to burst?


All we need is this BTC to become a mainstream global currency that can be used anywhere without involving any third party in order to reduce transaction costs and transact next to 'instant'. I know that I've been against regulations from the start for my own reasons, but even if it gets implemented, I believe it should be done at global level including each and every country that is related in terms of economy; so that if regulations are same and at a specific level, it'll be possible for those countries to trade easily in BTC using it as a store of value.

Valid points, but these days there are so many scams in the cryptocurrency world, I believe regulations will help curb it better, at least to some extent?

In order to upgrade BTC from just an ordinary cryptocurrency to an asset of its kind, it needs to be traded on a fully regulated exchange that is secure enough to store our assets like cryptocurrencies, and Bakkt has the potential to provide such level of security and for that, I think we'll need to welcome regulations with both our hands opened (as even if we are against it, we're bound to accept them).

Regulations will help but common sense would be many times better, how many people are investing in icos which have no possibility of becoming successful and they do it before making any kind of research about the project? You can find that most of the icos are scams by digging a little bit or using the forum to see the comments of those which dedicate their time to look for such scams.

I see that there must be a compromise formula between the two sides
The BTC community, the traditional financial system, and the people behind it - governments, banks and the like
But in the end it must keep BTC retain its entity and personality
And the goals for which it was established
Decentralization and financial freedom to and other goals
Of course, the government will not give up its control easily
How can this happen?
Truth .. I do not have I imagine.

Regulations  are boon when these are implemented in true spirit ,there are various regulations which are evaded by the non compliance and the governments can not trace it resulting in unaccounted money generation then it is used by the anti social elements for anti societal activities .Mass adoption of the currency is necessary so its value increases and  faith of the users is also certain.If the digital currency with blockchain technology is given an opportunity of mass adoption through the regulations, people s faith automatically will increase and the currency will perform better. 

Regardless of what the result will be, we cannot prevent this regulation.
The government will certainly wants in control of things, they looked at the crypto and they saw we are going so that rings their bell.
We should be ready because we will be force to adopt in order not to violate any law. At first maybe there's a little negative effect but along
the way as people slowly understands everything, this will bring positive effect.

Cryptocurrency regulation is certain to happen and several countries have already imposed their own rules on cryptocurrencies. The G20 summt that held last year decided to impose regulation on cryptocurrencies to combat money laubdering and other crimes that uses the vrtual coins and they also worked together to monitor the rapid digitization that happening in the world. I think it will be a boon to those who want to keep  themselve from scams and illegal activities.

First of all, it's not a currency, nor is it being used as the same as the value is too much volatile that we can only call this thing an asset that's being traded - so don't say that currency will perform better because it's not a currency in public's views but rather more like a stock over which they can make some bucks. Secondly, it's true that tracing everything will become so easier and that, scams may (slightly) decrease in number and arrests may also happen in found scams (but then, whatever goes into Gov's hands will be used for their own good) and they're not really going to do anything in average Joe's support, even criticize him to stop using crypto as it was his/her fault if he/she loses the coins in any such scams. At least what we possess right now is kept safe and most importantly "PRIVATE". Do you really want to lose your freedom of using crypto anonymously just because you want BTC to perform better? I'm against regulations knowing that it can't be ditched but we can bypass it. Govs are in the mood of putting up clauses like 'you can't send your BTC outside your country without letting them know or without their permission', 'you need to pay huge taxes over crypto gains', and so on.

Bitcoin already falls under lots of existing regulations (tax laws, money transmission laws) and many governments are using companies like Chainalysis to observe how their residents are using it. In my country (the US), we don't need explicit regulations to tell us to pay taxes on capital gains. It's already required since Bitcoin is a type of property. :-\

If Bitcoin is completely unregulated where you live, enjoy it while it lasts. The bigger the market gets, the more control governments will want. I'm all for breaking unenforceable laws and bypassing dumb regulations, but it's going to get harder and harder to avoid things like AML/KYC with trading and buying/selling for fiat. Governments are really cracking down on this stuff.

They are not going to crack it down for us at a stretch, they'll see and utilize the markets' sentiments, play with them, gain some money as it's a Billion dollar industry after all, and then clamp it down like a balloon to burst it off. The KYC thing through exchanges is a favor for them actually as they're gaining lots and lots of data of people whom they'll catch today or tomorrow and start torturing those innocent ones against charges they've not even committed. Regulations are good only if they come on an agreement that no one's privacy will be teased with, at any cost.

I think if the government tries to regulate this with their provisions this will be a big woe. they will enter the annoying bureaucratic system they used to use and this will make confined people trade with an unclear system.

Adoption and regulation words are used together in almost every sentence that we have been reading on websites or news. People ask that why we need to accept that we don't want just for adoption of crypto currencies to traditional markets or systems. Is it really necessary to make concessions to accept crypto money? I personally don't reach a resolution on this topic. That's a debate which will never end.