Bitcoin Forum

Where did DEBT started? Why did it exist?

Thinking about of the impossible is that, even if you stay in the planet for about a thousand year, the Debt of every country will never be payed off. Hence, it will just continue to grow. The current economy of every country doesn't knows that well. And by just a simple thinking, We should have a restart on everything.


Imagine this, you're just sleeping on your bed all day but you're debt on the government is not sleeping instead it keeps on rising every second. Such an unfair situation in life of every single person.

Governments are perfectly aware of how their massive debts won't ever be paid off, they only pretend that they have little clue where they promise the sheeps that everything will be paid off within x number of years.

It's a system that has been doing the same thing over and over again, and that for decades. If people still wait for improvements and changes they are delusional. The only proper way to deal with this is to hedge it.

Most people do that with gold, and now with Bitcoin we have another--more convenient alternative. No need for paper certificates anymore stating that you "own" a certain amount of gold, with Bitcoin you hold the asset itself.

Of course they know, they're not idiots. They simply choose that path instead of an alternative one. The global economy prospers much more from this system for as long as it is able to function. Until there comes a time when some entity demands these debts be paid then why wouldn't they do it? It's like saying you shouldn't take out more credit card loans if you know your bank would never actually make you pay it off.

And what when the country is unable to pay its debt? Nothing. When you have a debt all they can do is come and seize your assets like a car. They can't make you a slave and force you to work in a camp. When a country is in debt it can start selling land or simply say that it won't pay and not much will happen. If a debt has been rising for 50 years or more it should come under prescription.

Debts are started in small amount but grows gradually as other person take over control. This could be the result when we spend more or exceed the limit without even thinking how much we received in a month, in a year.  
Debts will soon to be forever if the government authorities won't stop spending to much. The best solution into this is to set a plan that could match the possible amount they collected from the community.

It's the nature of how the government run the country. No matter how big the debt our country has, as long as it is used for the betterment of the economy then we should be happy about it.

this happens because every country needs development, and it is carried out continuously. so that it requires a lot of funds for that, as long as the debt for productive activities I think can be measured clearly targets.

Yes, but its inevitable especially in the developing countries, the countries need a lot of infrastructure and development to make the city become better, when the city become better there will be more investors coming, and the government is aware of this situation but nothing can be done since the income from the tax is not enough to make big developments in the country

It is the peoples debt but the money were being taken out or just being wasted by the people that holds government position. This is really unfair even if they talked about the project is for the good of the people, probably they are stating for the good of the close to them that direcly benefited the project and not directly towards all the people under the governance of that individual. Sighs, sad but this is true.

This is what came to mind when I read this thread title

https://media.giphy.com/media/st3uofQz22MgM/giphy.gif

Fact of the matter remains that there will always be global debt.
Very interesting to notice the real time 21 trillion debt the US is in, had no idea it was that much!

if you talk about debt, it may depend on the awareness of the people or the people themselves because the debt will occur if desired, whereas if it is not wanted then there is no debt and will not make life difficult.

Yeah. That is the beauty of Capital Market. The world does not need to pay off the debt like ever. We only need to keep servicing the interest payments and the game would continue. Once the interest payments stop the wheel would come down crashing the entire bubble we live in. That is why if you observe global news, large cuntries and institutions try to prevent defaults by providing assistance (Example: Greece debt financed by EU, IMF and others). They understand that even if a medium economy fails to pay off their debts the implications would be huge for everyone that is interconnected in this globalized market.

the state will never escape from the world's bank debt. that is the way for the economy to take place, for example a debt country to a world bank, then the country will try to pay it then the world bank again lends its money then the country accepts it. it will continue.

The debt will continue to exist as long as governments try to save banks and institutions that might cause economic instability. It also creates inequality among masses (thinking that citizens pay taxes and these taxes end up for saving banks = citizens become poorer and bankers richer).

When I check the debt clock it makes me sick as it is grow as crazy every second that passes by. : https://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/#home

When a country says they won't pay their debt their economy becomes less trusted and that causes the economy to go even worse.

Think about it like this, if US government owes others 20 trillion dollars and says they will pay it somehow they just keep on having the same debt and get bigger overtime, however the day US says they can't pay the debt back than their bonds will be sold for pennies on the dollar and the currency will become less valuable and other countries that owe a ton of dollar because of the inflation that created by the instability will be capable of buying a lot of USA lands, products, companies and so forth with less money (more dollars, less value) which will make it even harder for USA to get out of debt.

Hence, governments actually do not try to hide this behind something because they know if they keep this up eventually their money will be insanely devalued which really cripples the economy and causes them to lose votes which is what all they care.

As long as the governments and the banks conspire to create more money out of thin air, debt will rise and rise ever so rapidly while the rest of the herd will be led to believe that everything will be alright and that they do not carry the burden of the state. The $20-T debt of the US government alone will never be repaid. If the Chinese come knocking asking for the repayment of the said debt, see how the government try to become hostile and engage in a war (hopefully not) with China.

People will believe the government as long as the latter can provide something for the former, but once the economy becomes so trashed, see how these sheep turn their backs against their shepherds and run away from the massive crisis the shepherds have created.

The first banks only stored money, they wouldn't dare use it (it was forbidden).
Then the bankers started using the money, and made sure to return it before the owner wanted it back.
They noticed few people bothered to withdraw all of it and lots of money doing nothing kept sitting there, so they used it and got rich.
Since the practice was illegal, they bought their way to make it legal, modern banks now only store a small fraction of the money they get, and in turn:

They give out loans...

100 units enter a bank, 90 are loaned. The person getting the loan, deposits in the bank:
90 units enter the bank, 80 are loaned. Wait, 90+80=170 Where did that 70 came from?
80 units enter the bank, 70 are loaned. 90+80+70=240...
70 units enter the bank, 60 are loaned. 90+80+70+60=300 This is getting ridiculous...
60 units enter the bank, 50 are loaned. See where this is going?

But thats more or less how it is. Most of the money never existed in the first place.
Its called fractional reserve banking, legalized ponzi.

And it is also a fact that most of the citizens think that it is the government's debt and they are just paying it off to help the country. Not realizing that even they don't do something, there's already a debt that's allocated to us.

Infrastructures, budgets and other things that makes a country better comes from the debt. This is an interesting topic and made me research if there's a debt-free country. And it listed few countries and I'll mention few of it.

• Macau
• Brunei
• Liechtenstein

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Can someone knowledgeable there can verify or add more details about this?

This is what FED wants,the whole world need to be in debt (of their paper) and thy always need to be in the control of this world.Yes it is never going to end if we just stick with this system for too long,just forget about those paper and look for something which has real value and can act as an medium of exchange (like bitcoin).
I am not sure they were still in debt free situation but the reason why they don't have debts is they are small countries with enough wealth to cover all their citizen's expenses by themselves.So they are not having any loans from outside of their country they just doing trading with what they have and making money with it.

China won't do that because they very well know that it isn't going to happen, and that it will also affect themselves. Don't forget that owning debt that won't ever be paid is a weakness on its own. If you expose that weakness by asking for repayment, you are basically shooting yourself in the foot. In other words, it's not as black and white as it may seem, there is way more to it than we know.

In the end, most people strongly dislike debt, yet don't try to prevent themselves from exposing themselves to that, just because they want something right now instead of next year. It's what the system is built on. Debt has become so normal, that we have to swallow its side effects and there isn't much that you can do other than to not participate in something that's causing all these problems.

I really thought that after the credit crisis it would be a whole lot harder for people to expose themselves to debt in form of easy loans and whatnot, but it seems easier than ever before to tap into your credit limit (some times worth tens of thousands of dollars). It's insane. So much money so easily accessible is tempting for a lot of people.

You can even say that our unborn children will carry the burden as well. On the upside, if government borrows to fund infrastructure projects it will likely benefited the next generation.


Yes, but most of the times you will hear nations, raising tax and the first argument they gave us is that they need to pay "our" national debt.


Never in the history of humanity we have seen that countries become hostile against each other because of not re-paying their debt. So I don't think that China and USA will go to that stage, they might be in sort of trade war but I'm sure they know the consequences of their action specially if China force USA for re-payment.

That's the only source that I have but its better to see and read if someone is more knowledgeable regarding this very interesting topic. As for the economy of Macau and Brunei, I never heard them on news to struggle with their economy.

Yes, it's a fact that the smaller countries aren't prone to debts so they can have a tiger economy because of that strategy of not getting into loans. But some small countries just can't do that and needed the help of other countries for them to stand up and build their nation.

They already know that the debts they are carrying are impossible to pay, it seems they think the day will never come when they will need to pay those debts, if things made sense the whole thing should have collapsed immediately but it did not, so it seems the faith they have about sustaining such a system is not so out of place after all.

of course when they are in debt there is a clear purpose and measurable calculation as well. because of the many debts and long periods of time, sometimes to bequeathed to the next generation. and the next generation needs debt to carry out the plan. and I think as long as for the right purpose, debt will not impoverish us

That is what happens in our life. And you know what, every people who lived in each country should pay that debts which are grown in every second and we have to pay in monthly. The debts will be changed into a tax for every people, and they need to pay in various amount. The developing country should pay to the rich country until they can repay all of the debts which will need a long time to pay off.

I think that's why we have wars to begin with. When a place is too chaotic and can't be recovered quickly they are basically calling it a reset button. Usa goes into places like iraq and so forth, get all of the money from Saddams vault and gets it back to oil companies and whatever as well. Which means USA makes their economy alive again.

Why did the USA had a crisis in 2008? Because the economy was prospering thanks to the war, people getting more money from another country, spending it, getting oil as well, making stuff cheaper, and life was amazing, as soon as that money dried up they started to get into a crisis. The way countries make money is either normal warfare or economical warfare and try to come out on top, thats why debts are unimportant because if the day comes that debt is too much, they will get someone else to pay it for them anyway.