Bitcoin Forum

Hi guys,

just want your opinion on something.

Would there be a market for a gambling platform where people can bet against each other in simple P2P games? I just use rock stone paper scissors as an example but there are many more simple P2P games.

I personally think it would be nice if a platform like that would be available. Lots of people sometimes seriously doubt about the provably fair system behind the casino. But on a P2P platform with games that can't be influenced by the system or the house would be great.

So please share your opinion and what games you would have in mind.

You are talking about a decentralized gambling platform? It would be nice to see one. I am trying to imagine how will it be done? Who will hold the odd and etc. There must be a way though.

it does not really have to be decentralised but just a platform with gambling games that cannot be influenced by the house.

Lets take paper-scissor-rock as example. 2 persons put for example 1000 satoshi each in the pot and then play the game. The person who wins the game will receive the prize pool of 2000 satoshi (minus the fee that the platform is charging).

So it can be decentralised but can also work like a regular online casino with player accounts where people can deposit some money, receive affiliate income and winnings. I think if you want to make it entirely decentralised you must work with a coin or token that has very fast confirmations. A game paper-scissor-rock for example takes less than 30 seconds to end. So it fast transactions should be necessary.

So I think a platform like a regular casino should work fine with deposit and withdrawals, etc but with exclusively games that can't be manipulated. I think this would be a nice  and fair thing if that would be around. Winnings aren't that big cause you do not have the multipliers but you still have a 50% chance to win. Thats even something not a single casino can offer.

This reminds me live casinos. Live roulette, live poker etc which we can usually play against each others. I think there are sites like bet365 can offer you that. But if you are talking about dice and this kind of games then I have not seen any yet or how will this be done?

Not talking about games like on regular casino sites. But just simple games. Lets take another simple game 'connect4' (picture below). This is a very easy game that can be played online. Lets say players put in 500 Satoshi each and winner of the game takes 1000.

https://i.imgur.com/A4cvhBK.png


You would be able to configure games like dice, mines, etc to multiplayer games but then you still have the risk the house manipulates the game and can favourise house players. But like in games I mentioned like rock-scissor-paper or on top of this connect4 this are real P2P games that can't be manipulated by the house. So everyone has a fair 50% chance of winning

This can be a good one but maybe its hard to make game like this in cryptoworld since most of the developers wants to earn money, and always want to have an advantage against the gambler. I tried to play P2P, and its common through the card game, well hope to see like this in the future so we can now have the chance to earn.

People that launch this earn as well. I think this would work like a betting exchange. players both are the gamblers as the bookmaker on betting exchanges and the platform takes a small fee of every bet placed on their exchange. So I would guess it would be the same here.

This is how I would do. Lets say 2 players play a game of paper-rock-scissors for a 500 satoshi buy-in. So total prize pool would be 1000 satoshi.

I would say
-2% to affiliate commission. So the people who referred the 2 players will each receive 1% of the placed bet or in other words 10 satoshi as affiliate commission.
- 3-5% house fee for running the platform, organise promotions, platform earnings 30-50 satoshi to the platform
- 93-95% to the winning player.


So if there is a game played with a 1000 satoshi prize then

-> 20 satoshi reserved for affiliate commission
-> 30-50 satoshi for the platform
-> 930-950 satoshi for the winner

I've remember a similar proposal on Chess back then.

The problem here is how to prove that we are really against a real human and not a bot. Doing live chat will not work depends on a game rules. In a simple stone,paper, scissor game some irregularity might happened to.

I like the system honestly. And looking forward that someday we can see a nice and good gambling site with p2p system aside from the usual esports.

Yeah me to. like you say I read something about a chess- crypto related platform. but like you mention the involvement of bots can kill the game. I think for games like stone, paper,scissor there should be a way to avoid bots. If I had such platform I personally would op people need to enter their choice paper, stone or scissor and confirm their choice with a captcha.

I don't know if we already have an active p2p gambling platform available that accepts cryptocurrency. But there are some ICOs I have seen those who are building such platforms.

1. Bytebet
2. Zensports
3. Gainmers

I can't recommend them because I have never used their platform or MvP. You can certainly go through their details and launching plans from their website. Hope this helps!

Please don't consider this as an investment advice or a recommendation!

Talking for betting there is a new project that just silently released. It does what you are asking for, player bets against another players, it is full decentralized, it uses only cryptos(not fiat).

Take a look at https://kryptium.io

There are few sites do already have P2P type of games such as,

1.Coinflip
2.Rock,Paper& Scissors(OP example)
3.P2P roulette and Lottery

But most of them didnt able to succeed.

They didn’t succeed maybe because gambler wants to play more on the traditional games in casinos and I think this kind of game is quiet risky for a newbie since they are not familiar yet with the game. Though I like the idea of skipping the house system, to earn more but this must still supported by every gambler so they can survive but if its not, they will just become a failed project.

Yes, there is one actually https://0xgame.io, It is a completely decentralized sports betting platform, I use it often could testify about it being totally decentralized, However it only supports ETH betting for now and I don't know if there could options available for other cryptocurrencies in the future, but I don't think that will be possible since it makes use of Ethereum smart contract functions.

Nice, so you’re making a good run on that site compare to the traditional gambling site?
Well, thanks for giving the link and i will probably study this one. Anyway, P2P gambling is very fun for me since you will fight against the other and not to the system of the casinos. Its good to play this one honestly, I tried it once when i visited my grandma and play some cards with my cousins so maybe its time now to try it online.

Obviously p2p online gambling site create by the developers to earn much more money it's s clearly online gambling is pure business the benefits of this online gambling make people easy and convenient without hassle wasting time travel go to gambling house.(in short nobody can watch n against the gambling operators)

I think P2P games are much more fun and competitive. They are also more addictive.
It's sad to see that they are not making a lot of success around.

Some games are better played P2P, like poker games .

P2p are also usually harder and matches are longer... You also need more focus than most games out there. It's a different kind of entertainment

Guys...  What's that mountain climbing game again?  The one that you program your climbing bot to climb the mountain the fastest?  I think QP will love that game. 

Needs some community support tho. 

Forgot to note that Kryptium will add the ability for users to publish their custom events and results(about anything) on blockchain + to play the role of bookmaker using their own or others players events.
You could find more info on project site:
https://kryptium.io

I've seen some similar threads that posed somewhat the same sort of question as you.
I do think there's a market for it, but as others have mentioned here, you need to find a way to prevent people from using bots.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1352899.0 (a poll which asked what type of gambling people preferred. Skill-based games are on top)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367814.0 (Would you play an 8 Pool game with BTC as game credit/betting?)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5072380.0 (Skill-based Gambling/games?)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1982018.0 (What games are best suitable for PvP gambling?)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3248514.0 (Is there any pvp betting game?)

I've just added these threads to show that there's actually quite a bit of interest for this.

The decentralized system in gambling will seriously help in reducing manipulations through centralized platforms. In gambling because of the risk involved I think the platform need to decentralized and transparent and not the complaining we are having on manipulations.

You mean this game https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4638210.0 ? Introduced by LoyceV. This is indeed a very good game which you can either both play with Bots nor other players.

Actually I'm also looking for card game big 2.5 against human and let the system put the comission so it can continue operating.
I think most people still not ready or there are no someone radical enough to make the system because it's still not profitable ?

That will be quite difficult to make. A much easier implementation is one in which the house has no incentive to influence the outcome.

There used to be PvP (https://rollingames.wordpress.com/pvp/) in Rollin Chatter Box, but the site closed down. It was created by a Mod, had no house edge, and players couldn't influence the outcome.

The biggest I've seen:
https://rollingames.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/pvp_record3.png

But like I said, the site closed down. And although it was popular, at many times there was only one player, so it didn't work. That's one of the main reasons for playing against the house: it's always around.

How do you know your opponent isn't just an employee who knows that you choose rock before he picks paper?

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The easiest thing I can come up with, is what's used for raffles on this forum. I've slightly edited this quote to fit this thread:
If people are interested, I can host a game like this, with a 1 mBTC buy in. No "edge" for me, only mining fees.

As far as I know, Byteball  (https://byteball.org/)already has a p2p betting feature packed inside. I never tried it myself though I used to hold byteballs and the wallet was working great so I am sure the betting function is also working perfectly.

I also found this article, it probably answers all your questions about p2p betting on byteball:

https://medium.com/byteball/new-tool-makes-the-byteball-betting-bot-more-user-friendly-and-enticing-to-both-cryptocurrency-7191f14a7460

Even on P2P casino can make to play you against bot or even with casino owner which will know a lot of information to beat you. Also example of P2P games are more but rarely popular among europeans and americans, mostly russians play them, for example Joker (it will be hard for you to find actually this game), domino, bura and so on.

Not profitable on the side of the house? I think yeah but its fun to play agains the other gambler and not with the casinos. I miss there’s a lot more pressure and entertainment if you fight with someone, and have a good bet. Maybe in time, someone will create that site and do a good business even if the profit is not that high compare to regular gambling site.

I found some of the SportBetting sites that claim to be decentralized and purely Player vs Player. I have tried some of them, and I could say that their system are not really good, even if you check their website now, it is not updated anymore. The last update are mostly from match last year. Moreover, their support are not that good either, so there are some, but not recommended.

Yes!  That's the one.  I think, like that game, a bot only poker site would be a good idea.  It could encourage people to learn basic programming and all the stuff needed to make a good bot and automate stuff. 

And it's the human players that would be banned.  ;D

Did you tried our app Kryptium? We are really interested to get feedback from users. Please note that Kryptium isn't a site(Web application) but a desktop application available on Windows, Linux and Mac OS. It works similar to Desktop crypto wallets and currently has deployed smart contract on Ethereum, Ellaism, Callisto, Ethereum Ropsten and Rinkeby testnets. So it's possible to try the application on testnets using currencies with zero fiat value.

Well, it would be really nice if there is really one because it makes so much fun playing with a real people virtually online which is a P2P or what we commonly known as PvP games wherein we can do have an opportunity to have fun playing with other people conveniently online. It will be really a great deal for me. But currently, I am already contented into the best  crypto casino (https://vegascasino.io/casino/video-slots/wild-pixies?utm_source=ccwp) I am currently into playing variety of games that I love which is basically like playing with a real person because admit it or not, computer systems are most of the time a lot more challenging as an opponent compared to humans that is why I can still do enjoy the thrill and excitement playing poker, slots and many more into it plus having fun with their great deals of bonuses for doing my deposits in terms of Bitcoin into it.

That is a super idea and also many peoples would support such kind of concept. Even after proven fairness, most of the peoples doubt the fairness of the casinos after huge win or losses so it would really be good for peoples like that to gamble directly with an another individual where the chances for wining would be equal for each player.

This kind of casino would go popular if proper development is been consider and if a professional team is been set behind this project. The idea might already be in minds of other peoples and they might start impacting onto it so it would be better for you to start working as soon as possible.

I think yes the decentralize application dapps on platform blockchain technology will help the gamblers which are looking for the fair of gambling games, and it will use p2p system on gambling games but it is still new innovations in gambling games and the decentralize application dapps of gambling games still not be addopted by mass but soon or later it will be available for all of community cryptocurrencies.

Going trough my history i bumped on this github https://github.com/erasmospunk/bitraffle
Not truly p2p but It let you organize lotto games with the blockchain to pick the winner.

A week team is behind such projects who don't even care to update the website once they lose faith in it. Such kind of working platform needs a 24/7 working support which would never go down and also the fairness should be clearly pure where both real players could play front-to-front. Such project could go much popular if the team behind it works hard. There are some common games like chess, carrom, etc which could also be made P2P with real winnings. I think a lot more peoples would then go for such platform and it would really stay much profitable for the industry as well as the players.

There are a lot of similar ideas before and the result was always the same, yes people love p2p games but they hate centralized organization which means there needs to be a trust thing involved. It doesn't have to be decentralized but if it can be that would get a lot more attention, now the website has costs so even if its decentralized it needs to make profit which means it can go with a token type of route itself like eosbet did but it could find some other way as well depending on the advancement of technology allowing someone not controlling the website but recouping the profits of it.

It could however be someone very trusted like bustabit/stake or whatever that starts a p2p game and allow people to gamble there as well. There are a lot of p2p games out there but they are not loved as much as others because people do not trust the owners.

I think P2P games are commonly known as PvP games or Player V.S. Player it is really fun to play if someone will really make a platform about P2P games, but i think there are already a lot of online casino who has P2P games which you can also play gambling with your friends or other people virtually. Playing to real players is really much better than playing to a bot because it doesn't have any excitement. It is the reason why i always play a live casino with live dealers in a bitcoin casino (https://vegascasino.io/promotions/super-boom?utm_source=sbcc) that i am playing because it gives me outstanding gambling experience and you can also play hundreds of casino games like poker, baccarat, blackjack, roulette and slots.

That's an interesting concept but it seems the main issue is keeping the "casino" always "full". As someone has mentioned, the problem is when someone wants to play but there's no one else in the site. If this keeps happening people would get bored continuously having to check if there's anyone present.

What do you think of having some sort of hourly draw "lotto"? Obviously this is not p2p but they'll have another reason to check the site. Or maybe when someone played a certain number of game per hour they get some sort of ticket for a raffle.


Anyone else have checked this site to see if it's still online? I'm quite wary of opening links.

Indeed. It will add up the spice on playing gambling games with other people in an online platform just like what we are doing upon playing MMORPG which is really intensifying and challenging to play and a chance to create friendship over playing online. But since I am not really that friendly too much, I just basically wanted to play by my own inside the house which is my comfort zone because playing for me is one of my stress reliever so I just want to seize the moment by my own. Good thing playing alone is never been boring for me specially when I have discovered the same crypto casino you have which is Vegas casino wherein I admit is really fun to play with the variety of games it have like slots, roulette and many more plus the great deals of bonuses you can enjoy for doing deposits in terms of Bitcoin which makes it more fun even playing alone through gambling.

First see the topic title, just wonder "Is this even possible" ??!!
Am not saying that gambling sites are always deceiving users so they should not be ready for such an integration with blockchain, as there is a huge difference between peer to peer transactions within gaming platform and the peer to peer gaming (don't really know what this could be).
I think it's a hard concept to realize but may be it's possible if deposits and withdrawals can be made in a decentralized way, so the earnings of the platform is also publicly shown. This will rise up the level of transparency to the sky.

Its already down yet I haven't checked on what kind of site it is but its mentioned that its a sports betting platform but it seems they do already bite on the dust.

Talking about p2p gambling sites there are actually current sites that do have these games but the issue here is that commissions or deductions are way too high.