Bitcoin Forum

A new Etf proposal was made yesterday by Bitwise :
https://www.ethnews.com/bitwise-hopes-its-new-etf-proposal-can-sway-the-sec


"Bitwise Asset Management has filed a Bitcoin exchange-traded fund (ETF) proposal with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. The initial registration statement on Form S-1 is dated January 10."

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bitwise-files-for-new-bitcoin-etf-300776268.html?tc=eml_cleartime

“The proposed ETF differs from previously filed proposed Bitcoin ETFs in that it will rely on regulated third party custodians to hold its physical bitcoin, and in that the index draws prices from a large number of cryptocurrency exchanges, representing the majority of currently verifiable Bitcoin trading.”


https://i.imgur.com/RGlDS1s.png

I am not great at this, but I guess that Bitwise ETF is a cash-backed Bitcoin ETF. And if it's so, I won't be too happy about it, especially after reading this article "Bitcoin ETFs - Cash-backed Vs. Physical: How Will They Impact the Market? (https://www.moneyshow.com/articles/tebiwkly08-50671/bitcoin-etfs--cash-backed-vs-physical-how-will-they-impact-the-market/)"

However, I think that we give too much importance to these ETFs...

I personally do not give a single fuck about any ETF to be honest, price went to 20k before most people knew what ETF was.

the moment people started to wait for ETF to boost price, the market just kept crashing, the bull run will start with or without ETF.

I do not like to see bitcoin mentioned in the same sentence or mentioned in the same breadth as regulation or centralization.
Bitcoin is meant to be used as a means of exchange, a currency and not an asset class with speculative value.
Furthermore, I doubt ETF would be beneficial in the goal of achieving price stability.

do people still talk about ETFs?!! what's the point of it when SEC continues to reject all of them. it is now guaranteed to be rejected. and unlike what it says in the OP i don't think it is any different from others. there have been a couple of other proposals which were similarly relying on getting the prices from multiple exchanges. in fact i think ever since Winklvos brothers' ETF which relied on one exchange (their own) for prices was rejected, other ETFs started changing their proposals and rely on multiple ones. but they all get rejected the same.

This is not the ETF we need at the moment and I'm sure this won't have impact on bitcoin price ,I think we should just move on and forget about ETF this year 2019 because its not going to happen ,I saw it on news that its been rejected anyway ,its time for those who are weak to leave crypto for good

Nobody talks about ETF's anymore. The market defended itself even after the recent pulling out of CBOE from the everyone's hope of VanEck-Solidx Bitcoin ETF.

I agree that there's no more point of applying for further proposals IMO. Even the earliest proposal from the Winklevoss twins before around 2016 IIRC was also rejected. Everyone also expects that this bitwise ETF proposal will have the same fate with the first' proposals.

The SEC will only approve Bitcoin ETFs, when they can control every aspect of it. They will have to make sure that external price manipulation will not be possible <Example : Asian markets faking transaction volumes and whales manipulating the price> and all transactions and trading must be traced with their surveillance software.

The only way to do this, would be to buy 1000s of coins and to trade those coins in a closed market. The global market price, will not have any influence on those coins in the closed market. <The price are then determined by the supply & demand from within that closed market>  ::)

It is quite a pity that Bitcoin has now become under the mercy of the regulators who are in the first place one of the big reasons why Bitcoin came into being and that is to bypass them altogether so we can never anymore be under their control. But then reality struck and reality bites so now the so-called bull run is hinged with the approval of any ETF applications now under the desk of the SEC. On the contrary, I don't believe that ETC can be the right trigger for any bull run. It must be the demand for Bitcoin and there is no guarantee that the ETF can be providing this demand in the first place as all of these things are just speculative. However, don't get me wrong as I am also excited in cases an ETF can be approved.

seen from the first ETF that saw the failure of the ETF and made the price fall, it seems that for the second stage it will be the same as the first stage, ETF can never be applied for bitcoin exchange, this bitcoin is free and will never be able to give circulation rules or whatever.

I feel like that's taking it a bit too far considering this is just an ETF. The SEC's decision won't have any fundamental effect on the Bitcoin network or its transactions at all.


Yep, ETF approval is just one of the many possible catalysts. It's also the most obvious one at the moment, which is why people won't stop clamoring for it.

Nothing else but to agree, each proposals haven't got a chance to be accepted, as factors regarding to manipulations still in big questions, people around SEC wanted to make sure that they've got a capability to control assets within their jurisdictions, knowing the principle of BTC, it will not get any chance
as security and stability will always be at risk.

As people around this Industry have nothing to expect unless they've seen the approval has been granted, but that's another story/matter to discuss.

why do you think that is?
don't confuse it when many people are wishing for regulations and ETFs these days with bitcoin being "at their mercy"! it is just those people who are fooled into thinking things such as ETF are good and necessary for bitcoin. many of them have motivations such as "profit" and they are excited about ETF only because they think it is the only way bitcoin can rise up!!!

it may be possible that we will never see this " bull run " again


With so many postponements people have lost hope and decided to forget about these ETFs.


It's another proposal that will be rejected, so the best thing people can do right now is: forget about any ETF and focus on the concrete things. Do not count on things that are pending approval

yeah, from day one that bitcoin was created, anything was possible. it might have died in first thousand blocks and never meet the second month of its existence but it did continue existing for 10 years and not just that, it continued to grow and be adopted by countries as a currency too!
and since I don't believe bitcoin is dead, I'd say the chances of not seeing a bull run is zero.

We had fair well in 2017 even without hearing the word ETF, but immediately ETF discussion came on-board, the many ups and down of bitcoin started. I feel some what moved to suspect the SEC and banks in a conspiracy to frustrate/suppress the bitcoin growth and mass adoption. With less users, the bitcoin mooned to ATH, but with more users, the reverse is now the case. What do you call such scenario? Conspiracy of the rich!

I think it's time we all keep quite for these enemies of Bitcoin ETF and SEC. Of recent i have been thinking about the rise and fall of Bitcoin since the last bull run in 2017 but still wondering if the issues of ETF and SEC have direct impact on the general market. If this has direct impact then why can't we shun the ETF and SEC to continue with what we believe in?

We just have to move on even if ETF proposals for now are being denied this will never stop bitcoin but will be stronger in the future. More developments will soon be introduced in the blockchain even if there are no ETF the most important in this technology of bitcoin, the blockchain and all the cryptocurrency out there is the fundamentals that will give fair chance to every consumers and transactions.

I just don’t think we’re going to see an ETF approved in the near future. It doesj’t matter what’s proposee, it seems the SEC simply aren’t interested in even considering an approval.

ETF is surely a big thing to expect in the effort to kick start mass adoption of cryptocurrency. Yet, in packaging these proposals, I think the guys that put up the proposals just do it for the sake of proposal. If not, how can more than 5 different submissions fail the same hurdle, the SEC?

The reason given by SEC? The market is prone to manipulation.

I would agree with what others have said, it doesn't matter how good the proposal is in paper, it will eventually rejected by SEC. Everyone who has been following this news, specially after the first Winklevoss proposal rejection in early 2017, that it will be a big mountain to climb to get that approval.

We might as well move forward and totally forget about it, we have survived the first 10 years without any ETF's so I will assume that we can go and continue without them in the first decade as well.

Now ETF is no longer interesting to anyone and I think that everyone has stopped waiting for its adoption. The ETF market is a dumpster. A lot of things are accepted there and it is strange that bitcoin is still not there. So I think we should not focus on it, because it will not bring the long-awaited growth to the market.

New update about bitwise bitcoin ETF proposal
https://www.coindesk.com/nyse-arca-files-paperwork-for-bitwise-bitcoin-etf-approval

NYSE Arca would re-file the form to launch bitwise after government (SEC) re-open.

Very good news. I think that this application has a chance of being approved. I think that at the end of spring, regulators will approve the ETF. You need to be patient and wait quietly.

It will be rejected again and that's expected already ever since they got rejected a couple of times before. It is not interesting to hope for ETF got accepted or whatsoever. It is now annoying to me that they don't stop pushing their luck to any limit that they might get accepted by SEC. I don't feel a market changes ETF ever got accepted because probably SEC won't just accept them.

I don't think too serious now about ETF because we see it's rejected by many times and I don't know what will happen later. I think we are enough for seeing another rejected of ETF and so far, we are fine with that. We wouldn't have any problem even if ETF rejected again. I think people now have been busy to recover their losses than to just thinking and waiting for ETF approval. But I am curious what will happen if ETF is approved, and how the market will react later.

Me too. I'm expecting a partial recovery if ever it does get approved since a lot of people, probably new investors, would see that as a good sign and get the confidence to jump in. But i doubt there will be any approvals soon. Probably not in the first quarter of this year.