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Title: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: practicaldreamer on March 10, 2014, 10:35:26 PM Was recently looking at the Glasgow Media Group (Glasgow University Media research) website (such as it is) and came across this (http://www.glasgowmediagroup.org/the-wealth-tax) call for a UK wealth tax. The rationale is explained in the link - but basically to pay off public debt.
It states (in the link above) that "A YouGov poll from June 2010 suggested that 74% of the population would favour a one-off tax on the wealthiest 6 million people in Britain" - and so I wondered what percentage of the population of BitcoinTalk might agree with such a proposal ?? edit: another explanatory article here (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/aug/15/deficit-crisis-tax-the-rich) - as the Glasgow site seems slow Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Mike Christ on March 10, 2014, 10:50:56 PM Why punish success?
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: tkbx on March 11, 2014, 01:39:07 AM I'm not sure how it works over there, but here in 'Murica, the more you raise taxes on the rich, the quicker they start moving to Mexico (where there are no government services and the government still has the common sense not to try to milk every last nickel and dime out of the rich).
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Mike Christ on March 11, 2014, 02:02:42 AM I'm not sure how it works over there, but here in 'Murica, the more you raise taxes on the rich, the quicker they start moving to Mexico (where there are no government services and the government still has the common sense not to try to milk every last nickel and dime out of the rich). Either that or they raise prices to compensate, so people would have to further ask government to take over different aspects of business to prevent this from occurring. This process repeats until government has total control over the economy and thus, totalitarian state. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Lethn on March 11, 2014, 09:25:30 AM Quote A one-off tax of the rich has strong public support and would solve the UK's economic crisis at a stroke No it doesn't and no it won't. Quote The tax would be extremely popular. We commissioned a YouGov poll of over 2,000 people to test attitudes. There was very strong support, with 74% of the population approving (44% strongly approving). Who did they gather exactly? Clearly people who had something against people being rich and wanted to take all their wealth from them, these political polls are always bullshit especially if you look at the actual maths behind them, 2000 people is no accurate measure of what a whole country thinks, i expect they added the 'over' part because they didn't want to let on just how few actually voted in such a stupid and selective poll. Never mind the incredibly flawed political data, while you can argue that the rich could afford such a tax the government spends so much that even if you took away 90% of the wealth it still wouldn't be enough to pay off the debts and cover the inflation that the central bank and the U.K government is creating. Our government, much like most western governments are trying to dodge the main issues instead of dealing with the problem and are only wanting to take populist moves which is why they come up with these shitty ideas. Now before silly UK politicals come along and try to accuse me of cosying up to the rich, I'm against all stupidly high taxes because the government should be forced to balance their budgets like everybody else, this is also why I support Bitcoin because if we can finally destroy fiat currencies, the only way a government will be able to spend beyond their means is through borrowing and that will force them to default quicker. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: EvilPanda on March 11, 2014, 10:58:35 AM Quote A one-off tax of the rich has strong public support and would solve the UK's economic crisis at a stroke No it doesn't and no it won't. Quote The tax would be extremely popular. We commissioned a YouGov poll of over 2,000 people to test attitudes. There was very strong support, with 74% of the population approving (44% strongly approving). Who did they gather exactly? Clearly people who had something against people being rich and wanted to take all their wealth from them, these political polls are always bullshit especially if you look at the actual maths behind them, 2000 people is no accurate measure of what a whole country thinks, i expect they added the 'over' part because they didn't want to let on just how few actually voted in such a stupid and selective poll. Never mind the incredibly flawed political data, while you can argue that the rich could afford such a tax the government spends so much that even if you took away 90% of the wealth it still wouldn't be enough to pay off the debts and cover the inflation that the central bank and the U.K government is creating. Our government, much like most western governments are trying to dodge the main issues instead of dealing with the problem and are only wanting to take populist moves which is why they come up with these shitty ideas. Now before silly UK politicals come along and try to accuse me of cosying up to the rich, I'm against all stupidly high taxes because the government should be forced to balance their budgets like everybody else, this is also why I support Bitcoin because if we can finally destroy fiat currencies, the only way a government will be able to spend beyond their means is through borrowing and that will force them to default quicker. Only less then 10% is considered rich so if you pick a bunch of random people for your poll at least 50% of them will always support income tax. Why? Because they envy the rich, hope they will support the country and pay all the expenses, that's how communism was built. I'm not rich, but I'll never support income tax. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: bryant.coleman on March 11, 2014, 11:16:06 AM Why punish success? Tell that to the retards who call for wealth redistribution. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Lethn on March 11, 2014, 11:21:53 AM Quote A one-off tax of the rich has strong public support and would solve the UK's economic crisis at a stroke No it doesn't and no it won't. Quote The tax would be extremely popular. We commissioned a YouGov poll of over 2,000 people to test attitudes. There was very strong support, with 74% of the population approving (44% strongly approving). Who did they gather exactly? Clearly people who had something against people being rich and wanted to take all their wealth from them, these political polls are always bullshit especially if you look at the actual maths behind them, 2000 people is no accurate measure of what a whole country thinks, i expect they added the 'over' part because they didn't want to let on just how few actually voted in such a stupid and selective poll. Never mind the incredibly flawed political data, while you can argue that the rich could afford such a tax the government spends so much that even if you took away 90% of the wealth it still wouldn't be enough to pay off the debts and cover the inflation that the central bank and the U.K government is creating. Our government, much like most western governments are trying to dodge the main issues instead of dealing with the problem and are only wanting to take populist moves which is why they come up with these shitty ideas. Now before silly UK politicals come along and try to accuse me of cosying up to the rich, I'm against all stupidly high taxes because the government should be forced to balance their budgets like everybody else, this is also why I support Bitcoin because if we can finally destroy fiat currencies, the only way a government will be able to spend beyond their means is through borrowing and that will force them to default quicker. Only less then 10% is considered rich so if you pick a bunch of random people for your poll at least 50% of them will always support income tax. Why? Because they envy the rich, hope they will support the country and pay all the expenses, that's how communism was built. I'm not rich, but I'll never support income tax. I'm not rich either and it irks me I have to say that because I know there are pricks out there particularly here in the UK who do the American thing in politics of either acting like you're either with us or against us or if you believe one thing then you must be a member of 'that' party. As far taxes, it would be great if we could get rid of them entirely but I would settle for a 10% - 15% flat tax rate, this would force governments to spend wisely and a flat tax would mean there aren't any loopholes for people to whine about. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: TheEmperor on March 11, 2014, 11:24:41 AM Quote A one-off tax of the rich has strong public support and would solve the UK's economic crisis at a stroke No it doesn't and no it won't. Quote The tax would be extremely popular. We commissioned a YouGov poll of over 2,000 people to test attitudes. There was very strong support, with 74% of the population approving (44% strongly approving). Who did they gather exactly? Clearly people who had something against people being rich and wanted to take all their wealth from them, these political polls are always bullshit especially if you look at the actual maths behind them, 2000 people is no accurate measure of what a whole country thinks, i expect they added the 'over' part because they didn't want to let on just how few actually voted in such a stupid and selective poll. Never mind the incredibly flawed political data, while you can argue that the rich could afford such a tax the government spends so much that even if you took away 90% of the wealth it still wouldn't be enough to pay off the debts and cover the inflation that the central bank and the U.K government is creating. Our government, much like most western governments are trying to dodge the main issues instead of dealing with the problem and are only wanting to take populist moves which is why they come up with these shitty ideas. Now before silly UK politicals come along and try to accuse me of cosying up to the rich, I'm against all stupidly high taxes because the government should be forced to balance their budgets like everybody else, this is also why I support Bitcoin because if we can finally destroy fiat currencies, the only way a government will be able to spend beyond their means is through borrowing and that will force them to default quicker. Completely agree with all of the above. One of my family members is a millionaire, he worked the last 50 years to get where he is, grafting to the top from the poor working class docks of Birkenhead and now, because people are envious, he should pay a shit load of his life's work to support them and clear their debt? If so much of the UK wasn't so reliant on state hand outs and living on credit, the debt and deficit wouldn't be what it is today. That and labours reckless borrowing and lack of regulatory enforcement of the banks. Now, legalising weed and prostitution, regulating and taxing, that's an idea I can get behind. Not because I want to do any of these things, but it will save a hell of a lot of police time so they can tackle crime that is really detrimental to society, and guarantee an almost never ending revenue stream. Edit: Spelling Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: medUSA on March 11, 2014, 11:44:57 AM We have a national debt of over £1 trillion because we have a budget deficit every year. A 20% wealth tax is not going to solve the structural problem, it will only force entrepreneurs and investors out.
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Ekaros on March 11, 2014, 11:51:32 AM Higher taxation to rich doesn't hurt them or stop them from making money.
Still one of wealth tax might be massively problematic to implement. How do you value wealth? Stocks? If people taxed don't have cash on hand they are forced to sell some and if this is wide practise it will affect the markets... All in all it's structural issue and there is no simple easy solutions in long term... Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Sindelar1938 on March 11, 2014, 11:59:44 AM Wealth taxes are usually done with good intentions but create distortions and moral hazards that take long to fix
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: TheEmperor on March 11, 2014, 12:17:17 PM Yes it would, and a 20% tax would pay a big chunk. The article gives the total personal wealth in the UK as ~£9tn, of which the top 10% own ~£4tn. The national debt is £1.37tn (~88% GDP). A 20% tax on that 4tn would reduce the debt to £0.57tn (~36% GDP) - the lowest proportion since 2002, just before the Iraq war. The 90% tax that you refer to on the other hand (a yield of £3.6tn!) would of course pay the entire debt (£1.4tn) with enough left over to triple the education budget for 10 years (£1.6tn) and buy every man, woman and child in the country a second-hand Ford Fiesta (~£600bn). How do you think governments spend beyond their means at the moment? I'm afraid it's already mainly by borrowing, and they haven't defaulted yet. I'm sorry but your first point is utter moot. If someone has all their wealth tied up in property, cars, land, whatever, yet their salary is only 50k a year, where exactly is this extra 20% going to come from? Especially considering they will already be paying tax on any property, cars, land, as well as a higher tax rate than the a lot of the UK. Someone's wealth on paper is completely different to how much fiat they hold to be able to pay, for example, another 20% tax. The only way this would be done if buy taxing earnings even more, which is a complete different measure to taxing somebody's, 'wealth'. While your right on the second point. Saying they haven't defaulted yet isn't exactly a measure of faith or trust. Both UK and more recently, the US have come very close to defaulting. Another crisis on the scale of the most recent one or worse would, without a shadow of a doubt, bust all major western economy's, and you might not have to wait for this as long as you may think. The gravy train has to stop some when! Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: EvilPanda on March 11, 2014, 12:41:32 PM Yes it would, and a 20% tax would pay a big chunk. The article gives the total personal wealth in the UK as ~£9tn, of which the top 10% own ~£4tn. The national debt is £1.37tn (~88% GDP). A 20% tax on that 4tn would reduce the debt to £0.57tn (~36% GDP) - the lowest proportion since 2002, just before the Iraq war. The 90% tax that you refer to on the other hand (a yield of £3.6tn!) would of course pay the entire debt (£1.4tn) with enough left over to triple the education budget for 10 years (£1.6tn) and buy every man, woman and child in the country a second-hand Ford Fiesta (~£600bn). How do you think governments spend beyond their means at the moment? I'm afraid it's already mainly by borrowing, and they haven't defaulted yet. I'm sorry but your first point is utter moot. If someone has all their wealth tied up in property, cars, land, whatever, yet their salary is only 50k a year, where exactly is this extra 20% going to come from? Especially considering they will already be paying tax on any property, cars, land, as well as a higher tax rate than the a lot of the UK. Someone's wealth on paper is completely different to how much fiat they hold to be able to pay, for example, another 20% tax. The only way this would be done if buy taxing earnings even more, which is a complete different measure to taxing somebody's, 'wealth'. While your right on the second point. Saying they haven't defaulted yet isn't exactly a measure of faith or trust. Both UK and more recently, the US have come very close to defaulting. Another crisis on the scale of the most recent one or worse would, without a shadow of a doubt, bust all major western economy's, and you might not have to wait for this as long as you may think. The gravy train has to stop some when! @PhydeauxLeChien basically what you're proposing is to give more money to the government, because they know how to spend it. It's for the greater good right? If they have more money, they can cover pensions and benefits, help all those poor people who don't know what to do with their lives. Thats some real commie bullshit. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: EvilPanda on March 11, 2014, 01:17:12 PM Basically what you're proposing is to give more money to the government, because they know how to spend it. It's for the greater good right? If they have more money, they can cover pensions and benefits, help all those poor people who don't know what to do with their lives. Thats some real commie bullshit. Uh huh. You'll notice that at the moment I'm not proposing any such thing, but yes - in general I believe in more progressive taxation. Regarding benefits, the vast majority of (non-communist) governments in the world have all cottoned on to the positive economic effects of supporting unemployed people long enough to find another job instead of letting them starve. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: TheEmperor on March 11, 2014, 01:34:48 PM No, they haven't. In the US for example they get together every now and then and have a big fight over raising the debt ceiling, with elephants and donkeys both playing chicken over choosing to default but as you say, actually defaulting would bust all major western economies - so they won't. The only way they could be forced to default is if they literally could not find some-one who would lend them enough money to make interest payments, which is laughably implausible - the US has a credit rating of AAA and the UK has AA+, which in layman's terms means that everyone and their mum are falling over themselves to lend money to either country. This is a completely separate issue from the many actual problems caused by a high national debt, and I think paying it down should be a priority, but these apocalyptic "we'll default and the banks will come and claim their money by threatening pensioners with pointy sticks" scenarios are highly silly. Uh huh. You'll notice that at the moment I'm not proposing any such thing, but yes - in general I believe in more progressive taxation. Regarding benefits, the vast majority of (non-communist) governments in the world have all cottoned on to the positive economic effects of supporting unemployed people long enough to find another job instead of letting them starve. Well for a start your wrong there. S&P's US ratings are AA+/A-1+ with a stable short to medium outlook and AA+ with a negative long term outlook, citing political risk and rising debt burden. So in reply to your point, the US is actually going to find it harder to acquire credit, and the credit they do get will carry heavier interest rates, therefore increasing debt in the long term and in turn the risk of a default. Also to add, if the US had to bail out the banks and big industry again, it would bankrupt the country and there wouldn't be much they could do. Bail out to save jobs and some sort of economy, print more money in turn devalue the currency in turn increasing debt, hyperinflation, whole world of trouble. Not bail out, cause mass unemployment as never seen before, loose large chunks of industry, massive deflation, whole world of trouble. See where this is going? I wonder how many federal workers are as optimistic as you over their governments finances? Regarding your last point, that's all well and good until you end up with a situation like in Britain where the native population have generations used to living on handouts and so have no incentive to get a job and the jobs that are available are given to immigrants who come here and work for cheaper. While obviously immigrants contribute in taxes they all send a lot of money back to their native country's so more money is leaving the country than going back into the system and meanwhile the lazy benefit takers do less, getting fatter and unhealthier and adding an additional strain on the already stretched health service. Tell me how either of these scenarios is sustainable? Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: EvilPanda on March 11, 2014, 02:07:14 PM The idea that all you have to do to get rich is be "hardworking" is ridiculous. Social mobility in the UK is appalling, and the majority of people who are very well off were born into wealth. Sure, if you're poor, you were lucky enough to be born smart, you break your back working for 50 years, gain skills, spend frugally, invest correctly, then you can be a millionaire, but I guarantee you had to work a lot harder than some-one who was privately educated and given their first job and some seed investment money by Dad. A great example of why I'll never understand the lefties. This guy had it all served on a silver platter, it can't be like that! He has to share! It's our job to force equality! Viva la revolucion! Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: bitcasino on March 11, 2014, 02:28:43 PM What about a one-off tax of 20% on the Royal family? ;D
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: TheEmperor on March 11, 2014, 02:46:35 PM I was reading Moody's / Fitch. In any case, AA+ still implies a very good investment and very cheap rates. I'm not arguing that ever-increasing debt is sustainable or a good idea, just that neither country is even close to defaulting. The native population have generations used to living on handouts and so have no incentive to get a job and the jobs that are available are given to immigrants who come here and work for cheaper. While obviously immigrants contribute in taxes they all send a lot of money back to their native country's so more money is leaving the country than going back into the system and meanwhile the lazy benefit takers do less, getting fatter and unhealthier and adding an additional strain on the already stretched health service. Jokes aside, this is an incredibly pervasive set of misconceptions. The majority of welfare spending goes to pensioners, and the majority of other benefits go to people who are in work, on low pay. The majority of unemployment benefits go to the short-term (temporary) unemployed, leaving a small proportion for the long-term unemployed - an unknown proportion of whom presumably are fat and lazy. This guy had it all served on a silver platter, it can't be like that! He has to share! It's our job to force equality! Viva la revolucion! I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity - all children should have equal opportunity to be successful, no matter who their parents were. If you had it all served on a silver platter then yes, you have a duty to make it easier for those who didn't. Well I'm happy for you, PhydeauxLeChien, that you have such a positive outlook with regard to western economy's. May I ask where you live? While yes I may be wrong to say fat and lazy so genericly, it also exemplifies the type of people I am referring to. Certainly not pensioners or people that need subsidies to get by even when they are working, and I think you know that. I was talking about a select group, which is undeniable. There are places in this country where 3, 3! generations of the same family have never had a job, and many more that have simply realised that it is more lucrative to have kids and sit at home than to work. And I say this from experience, I grew up on a council estate, I personally know people like this now from where I'm from to where I live now, to where I work now. So these are not pervasive misconceptions, these are observational facts. Just to add, I do not have a problem with immigration or migrant workers, but it is a proven fact that immigration in the UK is at unsustainable levels and that a large proportion of available jobs are being taken by migrant workers. I'm sorry, but if I work my ass off to become a millionaire, and then leave it to my child so that he can have a more comfortable life than I have had, not have to go through the shit I did, why on earth would it be their 'duty' to make it easier for someone else? Nobody would have done it for me yet I still made myself a success and passed it to my child, so in practicality I would have done what you asked, but because it's my blood and not a stranger it doesn't count? Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: TheEmperor on March 11, 2014, 02:47:51 PM What about a one-off tax of 20% on the Royal family? ;D Meh, 20% of fuck all is fuck all. How about closing the tax loop holes for corporations and conglomerates?! Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: EvilPanda on March 11, 2014, 02:52:51 PM Jokes aside, this is an incredibly pervasive set of misconceptions. The majority of welfare spending goes to pensioners, and the majority of other benefits go to people who are in work, on low pay. The majority of unemployment benefits go to the short-term (temporary) unemployed, leaving a small proportion for the long-term unemployed - an unknown proportion of whom presumably are fat and lazy. I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity - all children should have equal opportunity to be successful, no matter who their parents were. If you had it all served on a silver platter then yes, you have a duty to make it easier for those who didn't. Gypsies already found a way to profit, they never work but always manage somehow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V78QfxvTbo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V78QfxvTbo) Let's not forget about medical care for all those child molesters, drunkards and junkies, they are sick and it's the country's duty to help them, right? What about all the murderers and rapists? They consume a large portion of the budget, but we have to keep them well fed and healthy for the next 20 years. The government only looks for new ways to pay for their own mistakes, something to keep them afloat for a few more years. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: practicaldreamer on March 11, 2014, 07:30:50 PM A one-off wealth tax would be a bad idea for many reasons Don't tax wealth - don't tax income - tax consumption (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/robertcolvile/100141868/dont-tax-wealth-dont-tax-income-tax-consumption/). I initially started thinking about this after I was trying to work out how to succesfully raise tax in a BTC economy (an anonymous BTC - and I do see the benefit/necessity (fungibility etc) of BTC transactions being anonymous). Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: practicaldreamer on March 11, 2014, 11:52:24 PM I'm not sure how it works over there, but here in 'Murica, the more you raise taxes on the rich, the quicker they start moving to Mexico Our lot move to 'Murica (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/olympic-hero-mo-farah-applies-tax-exile-status-oregon-us-1432775) ;) (FWIW I would never let the tax exiles back into the country) A great example of why I'll never understand the lefties. This guy had it all served on a silver platter, it can't be like that! He has to share! It's our job to force equality! Silver platters disincentivise hard work and entrepeneurship - silver platters pull against evolutionary benefit and strike at the heart of all that we ultimately deem moral and of value - check out the stats on social mobility (http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/research/social-mobility) , then get back to us ;) ... and we have a paradox where the more hardworking and efficient you are, the more taxes you have to pay... The idea that all you have to do to get rich is be "hardworking" is ridiculous. My grandfather died in 1989 having spent his entire working life at the coal mine. He was such a hard worker his nickname was "the Iron Man" (nothing to do with Stalin BTW). He was an intelligent man who could discuss with you articulately any subject you wished to raise - and this when the dissemination of information via the internet was but a dream. In his will he left £1k for each of his children (he had 5) and £100 for each of his grandchildren (he had 8 ) - he lived in council accomodation so had no property to call his own. Whats £5800 in todays money ? Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: TheButterZone on March 12, 2014, 01:34:28 AM It would be a good idea if the government took it and then ceased to exist.
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Spendulus on March 12, 2014, 12:10:36 PM Higher taxation to rich doesn't hurt them or stop them from making money. This idea of a 'one time tax' has been being floated by monetary authorities for a few years as a way to solve the debt problem - it's not just Britain. And that it's a dumb idea doesn't mean they won't do it. They've said they'd do things like the Cyprus haircut again, and they will.Still one of wealth tax might be massively problematic to implement. How do you value wealth? Stocks? If people taxed don't have cash on hand they are forced to sell some and if this is wide practise it will affect the markets... All in all it's structural issue and there is no simple easy solutions in long term... It's not about what's good for you, but what's good for them. You are just tax-cattle. And every single time the rhetoric about "sock it to the filty rich" starts up, the ones that get slaughtered are the middle class, because that's where the bulk of the takables is. .... 5800 that was wasted, by the government not having scarfed it up. In the eyes of those who want to take everything they can.My grandfather died in 1989 having spent his entire working life at the coal mine. He was such a hard worker his nickname was "the Iron Man" (nothing to do with Stalin BTW). He was an intelligent man who could discuss with you articulately any subject you wished to raise - and this when the dissemination of information via the internet was but a dream. In his will he left £1k for each of his children (he had 5) and £100 for each of his grandchildren (he had 8 ) - he lived in council accomodation so had no property to call his own. Whats £5800 in todays money ? Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Spendulus on March 12, 2014, 12:19:50 PM ..... I don't believe in equality of outcome, but I do believe in equality of opportunity - all children should have equal opportunity to be successful, no matter who their parents were. If you had it all served on a silver platter then yes, you have a duty to make it easier for those who didn't. Actually, this is false if it is correctly stated. Let me restate it and I would be then interested in your take on it. For the bolded part... "...all children should have equal opportunity to be successful even if it requires the nation to go further into debt..." This is false because it takes from the children of the future to pay to the government-payees of today, SOME of whom are children. Whether the correction is via default, progressive inflation or one time taxes, the correction still occurs and the future children are then impacted. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: dotcom on March 12, 2014, 11:48:06 PM It always amuses me how states that are fiscally irresponsible because they've been throwing too much money towards special interests and buying votes end up taxing the people more to make up for their own idiocy. The day statesmen admit national debt is their fault is the day hell freezes over.
Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Spendulus on March 13, 2014, 03:01:37 AM It always amuses me how states that are fiscally irresponsible because they've been throwing too much money towards special interests and buying votes end up taxing the people more to make up for their own idiocy. The day statesmen admit national debt is their fault is the day hell freezes over. It amuses me how people believe the bullshit over and over, particular the parts about how it's for their own good. Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: practicaldreamer on March 13, 2014, 09:56:19 PM OK - there has been 25 voters turned out in this particular poll, 2 of whom were undecided one way or the other.
A massive 68% are against a one off wealth tax on the wealthy in this BitcoinTalk poll - in contradistinction to the 74% in favour in the UK as polled by YouGov (2000 person representative sample presumably ???) What does this tell us about the voters in this particular online constituency ? What does it tell us about this particular poll ? Listen folks - I mentioned it earlier, but I reckon a consumption tax might be a way forward if we are to have BTC as a contender in this crazy mixed up world . What do you all think ? Or is it a case of no tax/Government/authority at all for you ? BTC being like a moral precept - a bit like "turn the other cheek" etc ?? Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: Ekaros on March 13, 2014, 10:23:25 PM OK - there has been 25 voters turned out in this particular poll, 2 of whom were undecided one way or the other. A massive 68% are against a one off wealth tax on the wealthy in this BitcoinTalk poll - in contradistinction to the 74% in favour in the UK as polled by YouGov (2000 person representative sample presumably ???) What does this tell us about the voters in this particular online constituency ? What does it tell us about this particular poll ? Listen folks - I mentioned it earlier, but I reckon a consumption tax might be a way forward if we are to have BTC as a contender in this crazy mixed up world . What do you all think ? Or is it a case of no tax/Government/authority at all for you ? BTC being like a moral precept - a bit like "turn the other cheek" etc ?? Consumption tax doesn't work because rich consume less in porpotion than poor... The income distribution is just too skewed for them to work and still get decent service. Or then the average folk need to gain huge negotiation power over those who have the capital... I'm in undecided group, it's not that some assets like public debt couldn't be easily taxed or forfeited from rich, but in the end most of wealth is now speculative or immaterial like stocks... So cutting from this is not exactly workable if it leaves to liquidation of these assets to pay part of their value, thus plummeting the value... Title: Re: Poll on UK Wealth Tax Post by: practicaldreamer on March 14, 2014, 01:01:29 PM Consumption tax doesn't work because rich consume less in porpotion than poor... This. Consumption taxes penalise the poor. Personally I think income taxes should be based on how much it costs to get by - I think there should be a flat tax (60% or more) on people's disposable income - i.e. raise the tax-free threshold so that nobody earning less than a living wage (say £20-25k) pays tax. This system would decrease tax for everyone earning less than ~£45k. Yes - I see what you are saying - but I envisage a Consumption Tax being implemented in a wholly different way to our current VAT (which is an unfair tax that hits the poor disproportionately). A CT would be related to your ability to pay (like any fair tax) - almost by definition. The more you consume the more you pay. The rate of the CT could be progressive also - that is, when you enter the realm of the consumption of expensive luxuries then the rate of CT rises accordingly. The Germans (who have a strong economy/manufacturing base) apparently save around 10% of their disposable income - this has positive knock on effects (re. investment) for the whole German economy. The UK, by contrast, only manages to save circa 1% of their disposable income. A Consumption Tax might, on top of everything else, manage to create a nation of savers - it would certainly encourage one. But, as this is a BTC forum, the real advantage of a CT is with regard to fiscal policy/raising revenue in an economy where BTC constitutes a large amount of the transactions . The real problem with an anonymous BTC (which the transactions will in time become) is raising taxation. It wouldn't be a problem with PAYE, Inheritance tax, VAT etc - but it would be a problem on income from self employment and corporation tax. An anonymous BTC would essentially enable a nationwide "cash in hand" economy. Enter Consumption Tax. |