Bitcoin Forum

Doesn't tell you something when the most powerful Communist country on Earth thinks the left in the West is a total joke? You would think people who left Communist nations would be listened to by Socialists and Communists here... but apparently they are white supremacists. Who knew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlFDRXMz9p4

Who the hell said China was the voice of the left?  China may be the most capitalistic country on Earth. Anyone who has made it past the party name knows that China isn't like the western left. China has very little moral fiber.  They are committing genocide against muslims right now.   Chinese society is extremely bigoted and hyperconsumerist, .

This confusion around why we our ideologies are so different should also be a clue to you that...our ideologies are different. The western left values individual liberty and self expression and all of our positions stem from those things.    You will continue to suffer from this type of confusion until you grasp the difference between anarchism and authoritarianism.  

My friends in China are quick to tell one that they are a communist nation.

They are Communist in name and in practice, and as usual you are in way over your pay grade. If you would like an absolute spanking on this subject please do keep arguing that China is not Communist.

Let me add to my prior comment.

My friends in China are quick to tell you they are a communist country.

NOT proudly.

It's more like "our country is Communist and we must do as we are told regarding a number of matters."

Well the question was never wether or not they identify as communist or if you call them communist, but that whatever they are is mostly contrary to the left in the west and on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.  

Maybe the goals or "mission" of the Chinese communist party is "communist" but those are nothing more than symbolic "core values" for PR at this point. A communist country cannot have a state, nor can it have cash.   Those transitioning towards communism could reasonably be called "communist" but there is no way you could argue China is transitioning towards communism.  For decades, they have been accelerating in the opposite direction and creating millionaires and billionaires at a high rate.
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-went-from-communist-to-capitalist-2015-10

In practice, anyone who knows anything about China knows that it has a mixed economy.  The only way you could actually think their economy is communist if is you were simply told it was communist and stopped there.   Yes I realize that their government feeds them propaganda that they are communist but that does not make them communist.  
Quite telling that this quote itself is a contradiction.

Your definition of communism as "government doing things" is lazy and regardless of what you see as "the correct definition" that isn't how the wetern left identifies.  Your oversimplification of complex issues indicates a lack of understanding of economic theory.  You haven't spent a lot of time reflecting on Marx, Engels, or the platforms of parties on the western left and it really shows.  This is precisely why you are only able to participate in symantic arguments on the issue.  

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what you decide to call us or how you decide to label things.  The important thing is that most our policies and values are completely contrary to those of China.  

I'd recommend starting here to learn what the American left is:
http://www.gp.org/ten_key_values_2016
https://www.socialistpartyusa.net/principles-points-of-agreement
https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/

Please don't ever talk about what we are until you have actually read a platform

Muh "not real communism"

Hundreds of millions dead from leftist socialism and communism and the western left's cognitive dissonance can't compute..

::)
Yeah buddy, that's communism alright.. Don't forget about the organ harvesting..

Hitler, stalin, polpot, mao, che guevara, castro
Will you never learn?

Leftist's superiority complexes allow them to slaughter all those who disagree..

Yes hitler is one of yours too..

https://pics.me.me/the-death-toll-of-communism-65-million-in-china-20-8178744.png


BTW this "white left" term is not new..

Not worth debating what "real communism is" because those systems were real and people refer to them as communist.  The point is that almost everyone in today's western political left is against authoritarianism. 

Quoting that book is a very juvenile thing to do.  Its very lazy and biased and meant to keep the working class from learning what communism and socialism actually mean.  It has worked for a long time but is starting to lose its affect. You can only repeat this crap so many times before  people start to realize donating most of their labor value to a few people isn't the only thing keeping them alive. 
A lot of the "deaths" were estimated via demographics.  If a population grows to a total that is 1 million less than expected, its clearly because communism killed 1 million people, right?

Aside from conflating the far right fascist Hitler with the far left authoritarian Stalin, they want to conflate that with us left libertarians who are on the opposite end of the political spectrum from Stalin and opposite corner from Hitler.  They want you to think "prisons" are the same thing as nazi death camps.  Basically, everything they don't like is the same exact thing that has caused all of the worst things that have ever happened

No one ever talks about the famines in India which were much worse than anything.  When you compare the famines worldwide, you can see that capitalism exacerbated the situation.  These people want you to believe capitalism prevented famines. Its all hogwash and wouldn't even be an issue in today's world anyway.

<b>The western left values individual liberty and self expression and all of our positions stem from those things.</b>

Boy do I disagree. The Western left is extremely anti-individual. It promotes a collectivist, identitarian philosophy - meaning it promotes group identity over individuality. The Western left is extremely opposed to freedom of speech and freedom of thought.  Look at ANTIFA and the "Bash a Fash" crowd. They include libertarians, small-government conservatives and just about anyone who isn't "left" as a fascist.

Look at the protests over Ben Shapiro and Milo.

Well no shit.  100% freedom is illogical.  Critical thought free us from having to deal in absolutes.   It should be obvious that a "free" society should not grant individuals absolute freedom commit violence against others.  Fascism is violence.  

The only way you would ever accomplish this is if you put us all in cells, but we would be equal right?

This is how you have made yourself the enemy of the people. You use your delusions to justify stripping everyone of their freedom. You are the fascist, you just can't realize it because it is too painful to see you are everything you hate.

the chinese communist banking cartel gives a damn about the "white left" they want the same the american commuist banking cartel achieved enslave as many people as possible to their money printing press.

You need to look outward  more to learn about how things are done around the world.  Its a big world out there and sometimes when you think 'the only way x can be done is ______', you could easily find x being done in Norway or Sweden without the restriction you thought was obligatory. 

In fact, its funny you mention cells because the US, with unlimited free speech, has the highest incarceration rate in the world.  So much for freedom and so much for hate speech locking up all of those poor Norwegians and Swedes. 

Cool story Captain Postmodern. There is inherent risk in freedom, and you are advocating trading in freedom for safety. You have made yourself the enemy because you advocate for enslavement whether you know it or not.

https://i.imgur.com/h72ZpRS.png

Why deal with facts and address the real-world examples when you could just take a 240 year old quote out of context? 

I'd respect it if you consistently applied this logic to things like military, and border security but why even stop there?  Why not just have a purge society where anybody can do whatever they want to anyone?

communism existed since last century capitalism existed millenia before, starvations where the norm throughout millenia, only the pressure of communism in the end ended those for a short period of time  ::)