Bitcoin Forum

It´s completely clear that all Coins/Tokens will be valued zero. Why?

1) Because they are not securities. You don´t own any shares of the companies. You don`t get any dividends from their gains in the future (if any of them has the capability to earn FIAT money in the future).
2) ICO ... Initial Coin Offering, it´s just an other form of crowd funding. What´s the main problem with this approach? You finance the companies business operations. They must sell their tokens to sustain running their business. Or do you think they earn money other than in cryptocurrency? No, they don´t. It will last until all tokens are sold, then this companies are down and out. Simple. You sit on worthless tokens. Scams are just the rapid version of this process. Would ever a venture capital company invest FIAT into their business? Zero price is inevitable.
3) Point 1 and 2 are not clear for many users here ... It´s a big pump and dump scheme. Greater fools theory, not more not less.

Now I want to hear your opinions. We don´t talk about Bitcoin here, just about altcoins.

Well, you are right. As an investor, I do not participate in this process. Because I understand one principle. Cryptocurrency as a financial peramid, today it is tomorrow it is not. Whales swapping coins. All this is a game with our wallet. Do not be ill.

Whales swapping coins ... interesting aspect. It´s true that no fresh money is entering the markets (no way for big pumps actually, except manipulated ones - the famous bart pattern), so they trade internal by cryptos only. Whales are winning this short term trading game too.

Well, some companies will be able to create worthy product with a big value and customer's base, some utilities will be on demand and I believe not all ICOs will end up 0 token price. Don't make the same analysis like you do for stock maket

In this capitalism era the big player will always become the winner in the various aspect. in fact that the power of money will give a lot of impact to the everything. Whales were manipulating everything in every moment. a lot of people know about that and this is not a big surprise.

There is some truth in your words. Previously, the projects were created to implement the idea and they were successfully launched, but now the situation has changed dramatically. I agree with you that most projects are just garbage and the cost of their tokens in the future will be zero. I also stopped investing in ICO.

there are still authentic projects that are running icos.
so yeah, i dont believe that all projects having their icos will end up to nothing.
but hard to identify which ones will survive in this tough competition

it is a scheme that is often carried out by irresponsible developers, they do not do scams but they are not difficult to avoid the value of their coins after they get money, but even though not all are the same, there are some developers who think about the future of investors who have contributed to success they are, although a little but that will always be there

That's why we need to analyze about how important tokens/coins for the project and assess the potential product offered by the team. When the tokens/coins is an important part of the project, it may have a good value at future. Moreover, if the project can improve its product well. In this case, I don't think the value of tokens/coins will go to zero. While for low quality projects that create tokens/coins only for fundrising, I agree those will be valued zero.          

I think that to a greater degree you are right, many projects will die, but today there are high-quality coins that will live because their idea is really working and it is needed by many

Not all ICOs  will drop to zero long term, if they have a working product which represent value.
Working product and active development team and community  insure the coin to grow.

I completely agree with the ICO.. It's just a fucking Kickstart campaign. Useless things that you can even find in Amazon for less. But to stay on track, I like STOs better. And I've even invested in one myself. A Mining company called Elite Mining Inc . I get my dividends for what they mine, and the prices are really nice since they use eco electricity. Check my signature

ICOs are like startup companies. Only about 10% of those are successful and the rest fail over time so choose carefully.

not at all. having shares in a company doesn't change the fact that it is failing. imagine a company (a real company not some dude calling his parents' basement, his company) that is on the road to bankruptcy because of bad business logic, if you buy the shares of that company, the company will still go under and the shares will be worth zero.

you see calling it "security" doesn't change the important fact that ICO tokens are useless! and that is why they will  drop to zero eventually.

that is not how pump and dump works. the profit the ICO scammers make is party from pump and dump though. but the main thing about them is that free money they receive in a blinking of an eye without doing any actual work. about 95% of the ICOs are copy of the same code with a different name!

ICO has become useless over time,fake project is the order of Tue day for ICO now which make it too dangerously for any investment, i guess you are right.

Unaccepted, the reason I don't like ICO is because almost 99% of them are based on erc20 tokens and they have to rely on the price of the blockchain owner which is Ethereum ,why can't ICOs rely on there own blockchain? But still we have good ones that still existed till date ,the problem presently is the market price ,if not you won't be saying all this .

Likely to be happen so but not every ICO token because some of them are doing some development and they will be able to survive because they are focusing on utility token.

ICO is not worth is anymore, it is taking a lot from people and giving a little or nothing back to the people because all we have now is projects that have got nothing to offer.

Based on your logic, those coins that we buy or get in some way, you need to sell and hold them does not make sense, because their price will be equal to 0. I do not think so, because each coin has its own value, thanks to its technology, which is supported and enhanced by developers.

No, an ICO tokem can also act as securities and if the project will go smooth and successful, then we can expect the devs to keep investing into their tokens hence there will be no need to keep on selling just for the reason of sustaining with their business.

If you study some random project on how they are doing with their tokens after ICO, then probably you might get only these conclusions. You must need to consider a real life application based project and their ICO for studying your logic. A good project and a generous devs team will never let down their early supporters. They will keep investing their profits into their tokens so that the value of their token will indicate the success of their business.

My simple logic : if an ICO token dumped to zero then you may assume that is a failed project and also it might be a planned scam too.

You have a point because some of these ICOs do not meet expectations after having a successful ICO. However, not all ICOs follow this trend, there are ones backed by experienced team members and a good product which is highly in demand. Projects like this are very difficult to hit back to zero.

Logically I don't think it will touch on the price you mean (0) that's impossible, because some ico token developers have to be involved in further developing their tokens. I mean, only a few of them are serious developers. and the ico token has a price depending on how the developer develops tokens on the market and fans of the token itself.

What you reveal is indeed true, but altcoins that truly maintain their quality and potential will last and be valuable. Indeed, there are no letters, no securities or guarantees of all these beliefs, like the time you like to walk so that the community can be strong.

It is true for many ICOs that their coins are not worth much, some are securities which is why they request a KYC first. They won't be able to sell their tokens if there isn't any demand for it so they will dump their ethereum first hence the reason why ethereum dropped so much recently

The real reason why the crypto currency projects were created? they just want to bring a crypto here and make it more successful like bitcoin or ethereum so the money is their intention but they are not going to make a better currency without much effort from the team but nowadays lot of projects were created and make money from ICOs then gone which is just scammers thing so don't blame all the projects.

Yes, I know, you say that because the altcoin prices in the market are decreasing. this is only a matter of market conditions, if it is time for sure prices will recover. and I don't think all altcoins that use ICO will end zero.

I don’t agree with you. There are also ICOs which launch exchanges. And the profit from quality exchange is fantastic. From these money they will support their tokens. Also there are other business models which can generate profit.

It's not really worth generalizing. I agree that most of the projects are nothing and their coins in the future will be zero. But I have met worthy projects that will continue to exist in the future and, accordingly, the price of their coins will only grow. So very little, but they are and they can be found if you really try.

Not all altcoins will die out, and this is 100% information, as there are projects behind which there are large funds and large teams,and most importantly they have a really working product that will be in demand good,and even more so the future of digital technology!

Some may find the ICO which is nice, but for now, everything is really falling and no one could have expected. This could be also a scheme planned by others to take profit. for now, only time will be able to determine if this altcoin and ICO will be satisfactory or not for the long run later as the time before.

The high level of abuse we saw in 2017 to 2018 makes it difficult for me not to disagree with you on this point. they only care about what they could get from the space and not to deliver a product that no one is willing to use, because this is the problem with most of these tokens, no real use case or utility for the tokens and become useless

You are equally saying Bitcoin will eventually go to zero because they don't give you dividends..thats one point to prove that you are totally wrong on your analysis. Not all Coin or token will die off on the long term.  If a project has a good working products to substain it then it can last

So you think all icos are scam? I understand this from your thoughts. We can not think of all projects in the same context. Some of them are honest and doing their job. And they work really hard.

In general, I think that yes, but only if they are not provided with anything, since most of the projects promise that investors or HOLDERS of these tokens may have some privileges when using or maybe something else. Therefore, I think that all this will definitely have value.

ICOs are created for a short term profit making which is also more like a gambling game rather than being a real investment. and because of that their prices are only good for a little while although only those that win the "lottery" of ICOs can make profit, the rest will lose most of their money.
nobody has any faith in the future of them either, that is why everyone jumps ship at first opportunity they get.

Actually, it's happening right now, pick any coin that held their ICO last year and you will find out, that these coins are not existing anymore, and if they are still here, the price is much lower than the ICO price and this is the reason why investors are having second thought investing anymore from the so many new ICO.

A token being listed on an exchange (even it its the no.1 in volume) isn't and indicator of it success and guarantees it will not be worth nothing. In fact, it is a prominent pattern that when a coin is listed, it will inevitably dump due to investors profit taking.

Actually, I don’t think that all the coins will fall in price and leave the market, every coin is backed by real people and a pretty good project that needs time to be implemented.

An altcoin that doesn't move a bit in the market will eventually die and drop to zero in the long run. We do all have good altcoins to consider but the rest of it is just a bunch of shitty coins which is nothing. They were all the product of pump and dump in the market that doesn't give anything in the process or even in the long run.

I think you are misunderstanding, there are many ICOs still living well today. And the value of the token will increase if the project proves that it is a feasible project and will bring good results. As for the pump and dump, I find that the stock has a similar situation, but the time period usually takes longer.

I said that a scam ICO is just a faster progress of dumping token money than a non-scam initiated ICO.
And even the legit ones are honest and work hard, they still need to pay workers. Guess how!

Ok, let's divide utility tokens from the big rest. No utility means 0 in long term. Even utility doesn´t guarantee value if technology behind the project won`t be adapted by the mass.

I think that the fact that they will need to sell their tokens does not play any role. They can also burn their tokens to increase the token value as all the major coins or tokens are doing at this moment.

Not quite the right logic.What if tokens are interesting to ordinary users and they are in demand?Yes,it is possible to pay employees by selling tokens, but this is a drop in the ocean if the volume of sales of these tokens is very large.

 this is a good post and in simple terms it's correct, but any   serious ICO-funded projects, wouldn't just dump all their tokens?
it's the same as going bankrupt or something, there's hardly volume enough for 99% to sustain a dump, and when dev wallets start dumping, all trust is gone

No, don't misunderstand. A serious ICO project don't get fiat money to sustain business, they need to get it with selling tokens. No need to dump all coins or tokens immediatelly, just enough to pay monthly bills. But it's a question of time until the company has no more tokens left. This is the problem. Let's suppose that a specific ICO with good tech behind will grow and will earn fiat money or pushed into a real IPO. Then tokens are worthless anyway. Token holders won't get any shares from holding tokens, and IPO leads to stock investing. And if there is not a positive outlook, company goes broke - same problem, worthless tokens.

I need to dive more into the "utility" part of tokens, how they are in circulations, burned, utilized .... as some users exclude them from the logic path here, what I accept. From that point I include all tokens, which were only created to fund business. Those will definitely go to zero.

The goal of every altcoin/token that started in an ICO is to be used as a utility coin. There is a need for it, its not obvious but it will be clearer in the future. Some will die because the use case is still uneconomical or further from maturity as an ecosystem.

I tend to disagree. Just because there was an ICO won't lead to these altcoins dropping to zero. If the altcoin is backed by demanding utility, it will definitely survive the test of time.

I get your point. As time goes by really seeing this spouting nonsense tokens in the market, they are as if no use in blockchain technology already. But incase for Ethereum and bitcoin they still have the worth like a fiat money.

Not all projects will slide to zero, because there are many worthy projects that have a promising product behind their backs!

I dont think so all altcoin will going to zero, last year in 2018 all altcoin dumped hard because in previous year the price was going up to high. In 2017 alot of altcoin was going up 50 to 100 times less than 1 years so in 2018 many investor and trader take profit. Blockchain and cryptocurrency was adoptep in many different industry and already give many benefits so with more adoption the demand will increase later.

I don't think that the ICO-driven altcoin will return to zero, maybe only some of them don't have a future. But a coin that has potential will be far better and possess a future.

For ICO projects, no promotions are needed. In cryptocurrency, there is a completely different form of existence. In the course of ICO, tokens are issued, and securities are not needed to tokens. The tokens in the ICO have also recommended themselves well, so you should not change anything here. Soon, some reformers are ready to return from the cryptocurrency back to the normal stock market. We do not need it.

if it refers to cryptocurrency as securities, then it is likely that the future of tokens is quite promising, if their projects are in demand in society, then the value of these coins will be quite satisfactory. But what if the coins lose their relevance over time, even though the project will work without loss?

I find that very interesting, what you write and the more i think about it, you seem to be right. Nevertheless, i think that will not apply to all tokens. Some tokens are there to be used on certain web pages, e.g. to rent a car or similar. Hopefully, these tokens will always hold a certain value.

Most undoubtedly significantly fall in price, but some coins even feel very good today.

Indeed, it cannot be denied that not all ICO tokens will end at zero valued, but the fact that most of them after listing in the exchange price are always undervalued. And if this continues, I am sure the future of ICO will no longer exist.

I very much agree with you. Even if it doesn't return to zero completely, it will be something way close to it. Even considering the way some of the tokens have performed badly, hitting zero or a worthless value in 2 years is inevitable.

Definitely. Not all ICO-driven projects will be valued to zero. I have seen few promising projects that have real working product already. And they have solid partnerships. I think the OP is frustrated enough with all these ICO scammers but I still believe that there are good ones that will emerge from this market.

1. They're not securies - so what? Amazon vouchers are also not securities but their price is stable.
2. These companies are not just sustained via dumping on you, they're ALL building products that can potentially make money (otherwise investing in them is stupid).
3. Apparently point 1 and 2 are not clear to you either.

An ICO that drops flat to zero s definitely a big scam that never got into the market in the first place. No matter how bad an ICO does, without a product or use case, and it gets into the market, it should be even at the leat price, not completely zero.

Good projects never die no matter how bad market circumstances affect to their development. Price falls to zero in case of dead liquidity and i have heard about one project which CEO passed away.

Indeed, many projects are either very similar to each other, or empty and meaningless. But the really demanded ICO, built on the latest technologies, will bring not only benefits for society, but also good profits.

You have not heard of something they called a hodlers program? Where investors get rewarded in BTC or alts just by keeping their coins or tokens in a particular wallet.

If we think rationally, we can easily reach the conclusion that this situation will occur. There are so many projects that have been created in today's market and in the past few years, and the probability of survival and valorisation of all these projects is almost negligible. There are so many projects that create the same goal, same target and same sector, so that only one of these projects will continue to exist or completely removed from the market depending on the sector. Therefore, we should make a careful choice in making such investments and not include these options in our long-term investments.

Not all altcoins with roots from ICOs will go down. There are few active projects which I think will stand strong. But I agree with you, countless will drop to zero and just fizzle out like an old lady's fart