Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Gambling discussion => Topic started by: ruthwithers1980 on February 06, 2019, 07:14:27 AM



Title: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: ruthwithers1980 on February 06, 2019, 07:14:27 AM
Some eSports players became richer than some famous sports icons just by winning huge esports tournament prize pools!

https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/ (https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/)


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: eternalgloom on February 06, 2019, 01:23:20 PM
It is kind of interesting that esports basically have a unique way to increase tournament prize pools, simply by using the sales from within the games itself.
This makes it really unique when you compare it to physical sports tournaments.

I totally wouldn't be surprised if esports becomes more popular than regular sports one day.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: milewilda on February 06, 2019, 02:12:35 PM
It is due to the popularity of the game world wide since Dota 1 was already famous before with their online server using Garena. Since valve made the Dota 2 the popularity of it to the older player who tend to play Dota 1 before was gaining too much attention to the society. Which it makes more famous because people around the world who loves that game was so eager to watch the live game just like an Olympic sports.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: BitBustah on February 06, 2019, 02:46:30 PM
It all depends on how popular the sport is among the viewers.  This is where all the advertisement and sponsorship money comes into play.  For example the WNBA actually loses money because very few people even watch it and the budget is subsidized by the NBA.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: semobo on February 06, 2019, 05:01:31 PM
Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: harizen on February 06, 2019, 08:34:36 PM

Dota 2, LoL, Fortnite and CS:GO are some of the top games that bring out the hype in Esports industry. These are one of the factors why game companies able to achieved a successful crowdfund. And with the birth of PUBG, which is no doubt turned out to be one of the most playable games since it's inception, it does contribute more to the exciting environment in Esports world.



Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.

Luck is just a side factor in Esports. The competition is all about strategy.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: leowonderful on February 06, 2019, 09:40:24 PM
This particular article didn't mention much about CS:GO, but for items like stickers sold during the majors, 50% of the proceeds raised during sales for the items go towards the included players and organizations. The prize pools for all esports tournaments have been going up over the past few years, and it's pretty pronounced in a game like CS:GO- sometime around 2015-2016, Valve raised the prize pools of CS:GO Major tournaments from $250,000 to $1 Million. Popularity's absolutely a big factor for why the prize pools for esports like CS:GO are higher than others too.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on February 06, 2019, 09:44:47 PM
I'm a fan of esports since the earliest of Dota 1 and I've been playing it too. I've witnessed those tournaments that has not so large pool prize but now it has changed. Because of the new meta and the game play has changed too, millions of users supporting the game itself by buying those in-game items that can provide the prize for the yearly tournament. Kuroky was one of the richest e-sports player before it was Dendi few years ago but due to the increase yearly prize pool, Dendi was out of the top though he's still rich.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: shield132 on February 06, 2019, 10:38:50 PM
I understans how funding works here but still have this question, why are prizes so huge? Dota had 25 million usd and now as I see fortinite is going to fund 100 million usd. The reason of why I still have this question is that I don't know how others can enjoy esports over playing football, basketball, tennis and so on. It's amazing when you see messi's dribling, it's rewlly exciting but when I see dota, I have no idea how these people enjoy it, that seems very boring for me, it has poor graphics and so on.
Don't get it wrong, I just stated my opinion, don't judge anyone.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oceat on February 06, 2019, 10:44:47 PM

Dota 2, LoL, Fortnite and CS:GO are some of the top games that bring out the hype in Esports industry. These are one of the factors why game companies able to achieved a successful crowdfund. And with the birth of PUBG, which is no doubt turned out to be one of the most playable games since it's inception, it does contribute more to the exciting environment in Esports world.



Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.

Luck is just a side factor in Esports. The competition is all about strategy.
It is not just a strategy game just like chess and other board games it is also a team fight which brings the best of these players to compete with another great team. Gaming experiences today is being pushed to a new futuristic way so that it will bring more fun and amazement to the players with the great view that they see. Esports is really evolving with the help of Valve Corporation and other biggest companies.

With these in-game items, people tend to buy lots and lots of them for the sake of looks rather than their performances.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: crzy on February 06, 2019, 10:50:28 PM
Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.
Better to have your own goals than thinking about how to become lile them. Many rich people are on the Esport betting, and they are able to raise that kind of money because they already have money for that. Its truly profitable but still a risky one, luck is still there.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: leowonderful on February 06, 2019, 10:54:46 PM
There's obviously luck involved in any sort of betting, but if you have good risk management you can mitigate losses and potentially make a profit. I've played CS:GO since around 2014 and I'm currently in the green overall betting on lower-tier competitions like ESEA Premier and Advanced NA playoffs matches as well as tier 3 matches and up. There's obviously no guarantee that you'll ever make a profit betting, but there are also methods like arbitraging that can make you a decent amount of money if executed properly.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oceat on February 06, 2019, 11:25:39 PM
I understans how funding works here but still have this question, why are prizes so huge? Dota had 25 million usd and now as I see fortinite is going to fund 100 million usd. The reason of why I still have this question is that I don't know how others can enjoy esports over playing football, basketball, tennis and so on. It's amazing when you see messi's dribling, it's rewlly exciting but when I see dota, I have no idea how these people enjoy it, that seems very boring for me, it has poor graphics and so on.
Don't get it wrong, I just stated my opinion, don't judge anyone.
If you have been playing Dota 2 and purchased their battle pass yearly, you will finally understand it. To make it short, most of the main reason why the prize pool raise to that point is it's because most of the Chinese players are unbelievably purchasing lots of levels for their battle passes which helps them to fund for the prize pool.

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/the-international-2018-battle-pass-1202804348/


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: ruthwithers1980 on February 07, 2019, 02:26:15 AM

Dota 2, LoL, Fortnite and CS:GO are some of the top games that bring out the hype in Esports industry. These are one of the factors why game companies able to achieved a successful crowdfund. And with the birth of PUBG, which is no doubt turned out to be one of the most playable games since it's inception, it does contribute more to the exciting environment in Esports world.



Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.

Luck is just a side factor in Esports. The competition is all about strategy.
It is not just a strategy game just like chess and other board games it is also a team fight which brings the best of these players to compete with another great team. Gaming experiences today is being pushed to a new futuristic way so that it will bring more fun and amazement to the players with the great view that they see. Esports is really evolving with the help of Valve Corporation and other biggest companies.

With these in-game items, people tend to buy lots and lots of them for the sake of looks rather than their performances.


Right! Individual and group strategy coupled with strong items bought in-game (definitely the expensive items give better player boost) are big factors contributing to a team's chance of winning the eSports tournament. And if an esports bettor is smart enough to do some in-depth analysis of the opposing teams odds of winning, chances are he'll get better odds as well of winning on his bet.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: vit05 on February 07, 2019, 02:27:13 AM
"Valve takes 25% of Battle Pass sales and dumps them directly into the annual International prize pool, generating millions of dollars of additional reward for pro teams while amplifying the stakes for both players and viewers alike."

So, they take money from their online subscribers and use a huge amount to promote those tournaments. It makes senses. Because a lot of players will play thinking that one day they could be the champions. It is a great marketing strategy.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: maydna on February 07, 2019, 03:36:39 AM
No wonder how they can get that prize pools to go over millions of dollars because they can easily gather all players in all of the countries to join with the tournaments. The game was too famous among the player, and they can compete with the other people so they can win the prizes. With only paying a small amount, the player can enter the tournaments. Besides that, with so many interesting offers from them, I guess many players will join, and they will want to buy something from the tournaments, and of course, this is an income for the developer which they can use to increase the prizes. They have applied good strategic marketing to reach more and more players to come to them, and this is work well for the tournament too.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: shoreno on February 07, 2019, 06:25:38 AM
Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.
Better to have your own goals than thinking about how to become lile them. Many rich people are on the Esport betting, and they are able to raise that kind of money because they already have money for that. Its truly profitable but still a risky one, luck is still there.

Rich gamblers are ordinary people before they achieve their success . they work to earn a cash and they use it as a capital to gamble  .  same from us . if our goal is to become rich thru gambling , we can also do it  we the help of esports or even other kinds of gambling that does not usually depend on luck  because they have a higher chance of winning .


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on February 07, 2019, 09:12:57 AM
So, they take money from their online subscribers and use a huge amount to promote those tournaments. It makes senses. Because a lot of players will play thinking that one day they could be the champions. It is a great marketing strategy.
True. Just here in my country too many aspiring players have been training and building their boothcamps. I've been involved in the old days of Dota (1) and it's completely different. Now that there's a support from the developer itself, creating minor and major tournaments that has bigger prize pool. This gives encouragement not just for the gamblers to stay focused on this game but most for the gamers to improve and aim higher that one day they'll be able to attend even one of these prestigious valve tournaments.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: davinchi on February 07, 2019, 02:27:04 PM
For people who do not want to go into the article and read it and find the answer for this clickbait article. Valve uses 25% of all battlepass and so forth things income and put it on dota 2 prize pool and it was 25 million dollars (means valve had 100 million dollars in sale from the battle pass and still has 75 million after giving 25 mil to the prize pool).

Almost all places make money from micro transactions in these type of games, they could potentially make money from skins and so forth and get rich quicker but since the tournaments give them more returns and more PR and marketing etc etc it makes people play more and more and that is why spending 25 million on prize pool for dota 2 is actually a smart "investment" for valve since they wouldn't make even 75 million without the tournament.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: sheenshane on February 08, 2019, 07:34:10 AM
You can't underestimate eSports Industry and be shocked by the massive prize pool they got for the tournaments only. I've been playing online sports since I was a child and I really understand how much the companies that are established to make games earn from their creations.

Gamers tend to expense almost everything with games because of their passion for playing it. I myself spend a lot of cash in playing games without realizing games took off my emotions and commitment. DOTA 2 has big profitability because the Defense of the Ancients is very famous MOBA games ever since. They are the pioneer of multiplayer games with strategies online so they earned a lot from it.  In the world, 5% of the people are gamers since the millennial generations.  And it will grow more and more without us noticing it.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oilacris on February 08, 2019, 01:51:54 PM
"Valve takes 25% of Battle Pass sales and dumps them directly into the annual International prize pool, generating millions of dollars of additional reward for pro teams while amplifying the stakes for both players and viewers alike."

So, they take money from their online subscribers and use a huge amount to promote those tournaments. It makes senses. Because a lot of players will play thinking that one day they could be the champions. It is a great marketing strategy.
Valve wont reach out on the place they are now if they didn't use up their minds to have a very effective marketing strategy.This is why we do see how they do boom up when it comes to E-sports.
Dota2, CS:GO etc.
Technology do progress as the years goes by and its no surprise that esports gaming would boom up as well.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Indamuck on February 08, 2019, 02:22:53 PM
We are still talking peanuts compared to professional Basketball and Football players.  Best players are easily making over 30 million_ a year through salary and endorsements.

Maybe eventually esports will became so popular that the best players will be pulling in similar amounts.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: imstillthebest on February 09, 2019, 02:53:41 AM
We are still talking peanuts compared to professional Basketball and Football players.  Best players are easily making over 30 million_ a year through salary and endorsements.

Maybe eventually esports will became so popular that the best players will be pulling in similar amounts.

you cant compare esports to real sports because esports are kinda new in the money making scene and players on esports dont always have a tournament while regular sports player do have many promotions aside from thier paid games  .  real sports were also popular and have more spornships compared to esports  .

esports are more cooler though because we can witness how gamers make money by just playing thier favorite game  .


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Janation on February 09, 2019, 03:06:44 AM
Some eSports players became richer than some famous sports icons just by winning huge esports tournament prize pools!

https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/ (https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/)

I am a fan of Dota 2 so I already know this.

Esports are really surprising people as we all know, there are a lot of parents in our generation that thought playing games will not do good things on us, but well they are now a job for most of the professional esports players. I think a lot more of games will be added in esports, I don't like fortnite, tbh. In the future a lot more will be prized in esports.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: ruthwithers1980 on June 21, 2019, 01:31:41 AM
Some eSports players became richer than some famous sports icons just by winning huge esports tournament prize pools!

https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/ (https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/)

I am a fan of Dota 2 so I already know this.

Esports are really surprising people as we all know, there are a lot of parents in our generation that thought playing games will not do good things on us, but well they are now a job for most of the professional esports players. I think a lot more of games will be added in esports, I don't like fortnite, tbh. In the future a lot more will be prized in esports.

No wonder more and more businessmen invest in esports teams and esports betting companies like Player's Lounge. In case you missed it, Drake made a huge invested here, just some months after he invested in 100 Thieves, an esports apparel company.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Dreamchaser21 on June 21, 2019, 01:44:28 AM
We are still talking peanuts compared to professional Basketball and Football players.  Best players are easily making over 30 million_ a year through salary and endorsements.

Maybe eventually esports will became so popular that the best players will be pulling in similar amounts.
Its getting popular now because e-sports are already included in Olympics and consider as a sports already. The prize pools on e-sports are huge especially on the Dota 2 and that is why many players are really travelling around the world just to win the prize. We have a local team hear and they really win big on that competition, now they are already rich because of that.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: batang_bitcoin on June 21, 2019, 03:00:31 AM
No wonder more and more businessmen invest in esports teams and esports betting companies like Player's Lounge. In case you missed it, Drake made a huge invested here, just some months after he invested in 100 Thieves, an esports apparel company.
Sponsorship is increasing for each team, each players and for the tournaments that has been conducted by each e-sport organization. In return of the investments, the sponsors are being advertised and their logo's are everywhere for each team, tournaments and streams that they agreed to come up with. The apparels is also part of the contract, that's the reason why they are investing to this industry because they want to garner more sales from the gamers all over the world.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: nakamura12 on June 21, 2019, 04:58:17 AM
Well, esports tournament prize pool go over millions of dollars like Dota 2 is because of the game item sales like their battle pass in which portion of each battle pass sold will be added to the prize pool and there's also sponsors for the tournament. If your one of the players who participated in a esports tournament you'll surely earn lots of money if you win.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Janation on June 21, 2019, 05:31:56 AM
They have their ways, and they are using marketing strategies.

For Dota 2, they make their prize pools by the result of the profit they got from the compendium or the battle pass as they call it. People buy levels and items and some percentage of it goes to the price pool. I still remember how my parents and how my aunties and uncles told me in the past that gaming would not take me anywhere while professional gamers these days earn millions and play from a country to other country.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: virasog on June 21, 2019, 09:59:25 AM
We are still talking peanuts compared to professional Basketball and Football players.  Best players are easily making over 30 million_ a year through salary and endorsements.

Maybe eventually esports will became so popular that the best players will be pulling in similar amounts.

I still think that esports is not much popular as the regular sports are famous. Esports are limited to audience who already know about them. Once they become more popular, much more money will flow in esports too. Dota 2 is gaining good popularity.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Dontme on June 21, 2019, 11:08:32 AM
It is kind of interesting that esports basically have a unique way to increase tournament prize pools, simply by using the sales from within the games itself.
This makes it really unique when you compare it to physical sports tournaments.

I totally wouldn't be surprised if esports becomes more popular than regular sports one day.
Well, that’s true it was more interesting for me now since I read it. You are right that they have a unique way to increase sale in tournament prize pools it’s because I think that eSport are more profitable than sport that’s what I also know and it was very fun for me since the winning prize are huge.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Fredomago on June 21, 2019, 11:31:29 AM
We are still talking peanuts compared to professional Basketball and Football players.  Best players are easily making over 30 million_ a year through salary and endorsements.

Maybe eventually esports will became so popular that the best players will be pulling in similar amounts.

I still think that esports is not much popular as the regular sports are famous. Esports are limited to audience who already know about them. Once they become more popular, much more money will flow in esports too. Dota 2 is gaining good popularity.
When there's a lots of gamblers/players who learned about this market then more prize pool will be added, it take some time but surely
it will get more players who will create noticeable moves and will gather people to play around.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: izanagi narukami on June 21, 2019, 01:10:33 PM
It's depend on what type of game and how much the gamer's enthusiast around the world that interest on the game.
They are making massive prize pool without unaccidentally but with full calculation.

Let talk about Dota as eSport that able yield massive prize, because most people interest on that the game !


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: mich on June 21, 2019, 04:55:55 PM
There are e-sports now that I see are broadcasted on television at all hours of the day and I even just saw college teams competing in esports  :o
Here is a list of the Top 100 esports by pay
site https://www.esportsearnings.com/games
Just DOTA itself has paid out $180,169,581.42! 
100.   Forza Motorsport 2   $222,000.00   


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Ucy on June 21, 2019, 08:53:30 PM
Is the esport company name really "100 Thieves"?
 Is that a gaming company or normal sport betting companies.
Sometimes it is difficult for me to differentiate between sports betting (football, basketball, horse racing etc) and esport betting (gaming like fortnite? football, etc)


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Jjewelle29 on June 21, 2019, 09:10:54 PM
Well, esports tournament prize pool go over millions of dollars like Dota 2 is because of the game item sales like their battle pass in which portion of each battle pass sold will be added to the prize pool and there's also sponsors for the tournament. If your one of the players who participated in a esports tournament you'll surely earn lots of money if you win.

esports tournament prize pool go over millions! Well, its sounds amazing! By the way, I know someone here our place a guy have a really good skill on playing DOTA2 if that guy or his team have tournaments or bet game on DOTA2 he always win or they team always win, Its posible that guy and his team participate to play on a esports tournament? You do think it's posible?   


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: batang_bitcoin on June 22, 2019, 05:35:07 AM
Yeah they sell like special skins for that tournament right? When the companies can whip something up really quick and make 20 million easily they'll happily give a quarter away as a prize money.
Exactly! That's how they give back to their community through prize money with different tournaments that they are organizing. And for the avid fans, customers/gamers of them it became a yearly tradition that they should break the last year's prize pool. For the developers and company like Valve, it's a win-win situation for them. They give what the fans want because of the professional scene and at the same time, the fans/customers are supporting their ingame products.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: nakamura12 on June 22, 2019, 06:17:51 AM
esports tournament prize pool go over millions! Well, its sounds amazing! By the way, I know someone here our place a guy have a really good skill on playing DOTA2 if that guy or his team have tournaments or bet game on DOTA2 he always win or they team always win, Its posible that guy and his team participate to play on a esports tournament? You do think it's posible?   
It is possible if the guy you mention had contacts that organize an event. I also join a Dota 2 tournament before but failed because there are too many skilled players. How they do it is by starting a tournament at your street or your place until you'll be able to take part in an international tournament.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: jademaxsuy on June 22, 2019, 02:08:30 PM
Not all esports prize pools are good and it will depend on how good the esports and the number of users and fans following the game. Like for example dota2 to which it is already global and many are betting on team coming from a certain country. This may be not known to all that esports betting are considered one of the new games of the modern days in digitalization.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: TheCoinGrabber on June 22, 2019, 05:45:11 PM
If you think about it, there seem to be more interaction with the "audience" when it comes to e-sports, at least where funding is involved. This is something I haven't heard with traditional sports.

If you think about it, it does allow the publisher to use less of their "own" money to fill the pool.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oilacris on June 22, 2019, 06:06:06 PM
Not all esports prize pools are good and it will depend on how good the esports and the number of users and fans following the game. Like for example dota2 to which it is already global and many are betting on team coming from a certain country. This may be not known to all that esports betting are considered one of the new games of the modern days in digitalization.
Its impossible to say that Dota2 isn't known worldwide and It isn't possible for any gamers which isn't aware on its existence.
They do have tournaments minor or major ones which prize pools do involves millions of dollars.E-sports is gradually booming up
yet there are already some existing academy regarding on any e-sports games.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: tippytoes on June 22, 2019, 08:54:38 PM
If you think about it, there seem to be more interaction with the "audience" when it comes to e-sports, at least where funding is involved. This is something I haven't heard with traditional sports.

If you think about it, it does allow the publisher to use less of their "own" money to fill the pool.

This is one of the reasons why esports industry is really going to hit big. I think they are already in the category of multi-billion industry??? But I know, they are already in the multi-million sector. And with the continuous advancement of technology and the young generation who are now into digital tech, no wonder this industry is like a cash cow for so many businesses.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Lanatsa on June 22, 2019, 09:36:11 PM
If you think about it, there seem to be more interaction with the "audience" when it comes to e-sports, at least where funding is involved. This is something I haven't heard with traditional sports.

If you think about it, it does allow the publisher to use less of their "own" money to fill the pool.

This is one of the reasons why esports industry is really going to hit big. I think they are already in the category of multi-billion industry??? But I know, they are already in the multi-million sector. And with the continuous advancement of technology and the young generation who are now into digital tech, no wonder this industry is like a cash cow for so many businesses.
They haven't reach out multi-billion category but I wont really be surprised if they would able to go into that level.Technology do upgrade and most people will really be tied up with technology and so as with other things inside it like these games we are currently seeing now.Due to interest and lots of players it can really possibly accumulate much money as they can.It seems impossible but we are already seeing it now.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: donuts1234 on June 22, 2019, 09:57:58 PM
If you think about it, there seem to be more interaction with the "audience" when it comes to e-sports, at least where funding is involved. This is something I haven't heard with traditional sports.

If you think about it, it does allow the publisher to use less of their "own" money to fill the pool.

This is one of the reasons why esports industry is really going to hit big. I think they are already in the category of multi-billion industry??? But I know, they are already in the multi-million sector. And with the continuous advancement of technology and the young generation who are now into digital tech, no wonder this industry is like a cash cow for so many businesses.

They aren't quite multi-billion yet but it is getting there. With more improvements in the scene and development of more games it should reach there in no time.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: partysaurus on June 23, 2019, 12:50:16 AM
Some eSports players became richer than some famous sports icons just by winning huge esports tournament prize pools!

https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/ (https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/)


its brilliant you support the tournament and the game and you get in game stuff to a game u play and love, its such a smart idea.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: ruthwithers1980 on June 24, 2019, 01:56:23 AM
As the esports industry grows, some are pushing for esports' addition to the list of events to be competed in at the Olympics.

Paris 2024 Olympic organizers are said to be now in talks about making esports a part of the demonstration sports at the Olympic Games.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/43893891


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: xSkylarx on June 24, 2019, 02:51:33 AM
As the esports industry grows, some are pushing for esports' addition to the list of events to be competed in at the Olympics.

Paris 2024 Olympic organizers are said to be now in talks about making esports a part of the demonstration sports at the Olympic Games.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/43893891

There may be a high chance that there will be an esports category on Paris 2024 Olympics because this coming Sea Games 2019 which will be held here on the Philippines, esports category is already included.

https://www.mineski.net/news/esports-sea-games-2019-industry-impact

This is a big step for esports industry and pro players will have a chance to represent their country. This is a dream come true to many gamers like me.  :D


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: TheCoinGrabber on June 25, 2019, 07:58:04 AM
If you think about it, there seem to be more interaction with the "audience" when it comes to e-sports, at least where funding is involved. This is something I haven't heard with traditional sports.

If you think about it, it does allow the publisher to use less of their "own" money to fill the pool.

This is one of the reasons why esports industry is really going to hit big. I think they are already in the category of multi-billion industry??? But I know, they are already in the multi-million sector. And with the continuous advancement of technology and the young generation who are now into digital tech, no wonder this industry is like a cash cow for so many businesses.

More like in the 8 digits. I was quite shocked when I first saw it on TV, that they are giving away these millions for a "sport" that people play sitting down.

Industry is still gonna grow large, especially with mobile games. Many people don't even own a console and do most of their gaming on their phones and I've already started to see those games hold tournaments.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: goaldigger on June 25, 2019, 08:06:27 AM
Some eSports players became richer than some famous sports icons just by winning huge esports tournament prize pools!

https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/ (https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/)

Amazing how supportive those people who are fond with e-sports that they can all give an amount of money by buying some item on the fund raising that can be the prize pool of any tournament. Also, the amount of bets is e-sports are all on a high value. Maybe because e-sports like DOTA or any other games is more exciting to watch or to bet because of its characters and the amount of excitement is large.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: darklus123 on June 25, 2019, 09:09:58 AM
Esports Demand is really extremely high. If you are a gamer you will easily understand why they can really come up with this huge amount of money. Dota2 for example is always involving its users during the tournament.

They will release new products that will drive the gamers mindset extremely crazy. By that you can easily gets their attention while they also interact with your said tournament. They buy stuffs from your games like premium membership so they can get awesome rewards while the 75% of that sales goes directly to the prize pool. It will also let users want to engage in the tournament for their rewards as they also do betting.

It is a both win win situation from the dev to gamers


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Rufsilf on June 26, 2019, 09:40:18 AM

Dota 2, LoL, Fortnite and CS:GO are some of the top games that bring out the hype in Esports industry. These are one of the factors why game companies able to achieved a successful crowdfund. And with the birth of PUBG, which is no doubt turned out to be one of the most playable games since it's inception, it does contribute more to the exciting environment in Esports world.



Need to be lucky as well,if you want to be one among those richest gamblers.But don't get any intention to be one most likely it is not possible to happen anyway so just do if you can and see what you can make from it.

Luck is just a side factor in Esports. The competition is all about strategy.
It is not just a strategy game just like chess and other board games it is also a team fight which brings the best of these players to compete with another great team. Gaming experiences today is being pushed to a new futuristic way so that it will bring more fun and amazement to the players with the great view that they see. Esports is really evolving with the help of Valve Corporation and other biggest companies.

With these in-game items, people tend to buy lots and lots of them for the sake of looks rather than their performances.


Right! Individual and group strategy coupled with strong items bought in-game (definitely the expensive items give better player boost) are big factors contributing to a team's chance of winning the eSports tournament. And if an esports bettor is smart enough to do some in-depth analysis of the opposing teams odds of winning, chances are he'll get better odds as well of winning on his bet.

Exactly, we can say it would be easy to know who will win or which team has an edge over the other, if the bettor is keen in checking the teams statistics and items then they guarantee a win. In eSports betting it is important to be smart in choosing a team don't just bet randomly because you might bet on the wrong team.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: xvids on June 26, 2019, 09:46:12 AM
It is kind of interesting that esports basically have a unique way to increase tournament prize pools, simply by using the sales from within the games itself.
This makes it really unique when you compare it to physical sports tournaments.

I totally wouldn't be surprised if esports becomes more popular than regular sports one day.
Well nowadays most of the younger generations would choose esports rather than playing the real sports.
They would rather try to be a great esports player to make money from it in so many ways .
For example gambling,Gambling in esports are not new and it is very popular for amateurs and pro ,
Some players are also making money by streaming that is why there are so many streamers nowadays .
They are using their own game play to make some highlights and post it on different streaming platform to attract followers.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: FanEagle on June 27, 2019, 08:21:19 AM
Well nowadays most of the younger generations would choose esports rather than playing the real sports.
They would rather try to be a great esports player to make money from it in so many ways .
For example gambling,Gambling in esports are not new and it is very popular for amateurs and pro ,
Some players are also making money by streaming that is why there are so many streamers nowadays .
They are using their own game play to make some highlights and post it on different streaming platform to attract followers.
In my opinion, no type of gambling should be encouraged, either esports or real sport, if it has gambling attached then it’s not worth it. I feel really bad most of the times I watch how this younger generations get carried away with gambling and no one is concerned about telling them the bad side of the game

In 2016 I had over 3BTCS and gradually started gambling from it, just for the sole aim of making profit but before the end of 2017 I had lost it all completely. It’s a tough and unforgettable experience and most times when I speak against gambling, it is totally out of my very bitter experience. Gambling is addictive, destructive and also not good for any individual and I mean no type of gambling at all. I believe professional gamblers are coming to attack me on this comment but I only erred my mind.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: sana54210 on June 29, 2019, 08:04:15 AM
Well nowadays most of the younger generations would choose esports rather than playing the real sports.
They would rather try to be a great esports player to make money from it in so many ways .
For example gambling,Gambling in esports are not new and it is very popular for amateurs and pro ,
Some players are also making money by streaming that is why there are so many streamers nowadays .
They are using their own game play to make some highlights and post it on different streaming platform to attract followers.
In my opinion, no type of gambling should be encouraged, either esports or real sport, if it has gambling attached then it’s not worth it. I feel really bad most of the times I watch how this younger generations get carried away with gambling and no one is concerned about telling them the bad side of the game

In 2016 I had over 3BTCS and gradually started gambling from it, just for the sole aim of making profit but before the end of 2017 I had lost it all completely. It’s a tough and unforgettable experience and most times when I speak against gambling, it is totally out of my very bitter experience. Gambling is addictive, destructive and also not good for any individual and I mean no type of gambling at all. I believe professional gamblers are coming to attack me on this comment but I only erred my mind.
I feel you have grudges on gambling because of your very bitter experience, 3btc is truly no joke and I only imagine how you felt about this. Though I am sure you must have recovered from that shock but it was really a tough experience.

But this is not enough to be against gambling completely. Just like you lost your money, someone else gained same amount or even more, you should have known this before starting the game at all. I have been gambling, lost and as well recovered and I have no regret although I try to be smart in playing and losing such amount as yours is one mistake I definitely will never make, I can’t start asking you how it all happened and what went wrong, but if you will be honest, there must be a little trace of greed.                                                                                                                                                                               


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Irvinn on June 29, 2019, 06:10:07 PM
The fact is that the game industry is developing at a very high pace today, because the society of players is filled not only with the elderly, but also with the younger generation.  Today, even video games become gambling, where you can bet, as certain tournaments are held.  In addition, with the help of an online casino, through the application Even schoolchildren from their smartphones are trying to earn some money by playing gambling.  If the gambling audience increases, then cash funds immediately increase.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: nikola22 on June 29, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
today Esports is a big business with well-known companies acting as sponsors. that's why we can see prize pools over millions of dollars.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: RivAngE on June 29, 2019, 10:18:11 PM
In my country, the most famous sport is soccer / football, yet I never get myself to like it.
I find eSports on the other hand more entertaining and interesting. There's also a lot of variety!


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: rodel caling on June 29, 2019, 10:49:51 PM
It is kind of interesting that esports basically have a unique way to increase tournament prize pools, simply by using the sales from within the games itself.
This makes it really unique when you compare it to physical sports tournaments.

I totally wouldn't be surprised if esports becomes more popular than regular sports one day.


It's very possible because esports become popular than to regular if talking all about money matter how to earn huge using esports.
Esport online games it's gibving more surprise for all esports gambling fanatics we know the online technology is continue to improves.



Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: jakelyson on June 29, 2019, 11:46:26 PM
snip
More like in the 8 digits. I was quite shocked when I first saw it on TV, that they are giving away these millions for a "sport" that people play sitting down.


Esports is a real business now. Team owners are spending lots of money on their players' training and development. Players are paid with salary and all, just like how sports athletes are treated. And with prize pool on tournaments growing so rapidly, more money will be spent to improve teams.

Amazing how supportive those people who are fond with e-sports that they can all give an amount of money by buying some item on the fund raising that can be the prize pool of any tournament.
Players do not just spend money. They also receive special/unique items in return that they can use in game. So if you are a player of a certain esports, it is also beneficial on your end to support the tournament like TI.

Also, the amount of bets is e-sports are all on a high value. Maybe because e-sports like DOTA or any other games is more exciting to watch or to bet because of its characters and the amount of excitement is large.
It is the same to me. If you are a fun of any sports, basketball, soccer, football, or any esports, it is always exciting to watch games or bet on your favorite teams.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Devawnm367 on July 01, 2019, 05:09:51 AM
I figured it had a lot to do with the Skins and outfits from In-Game purchases. But that is crazy Epic Games is going to fund $100,000,000 towards fortnite Competitions this next year....

Also as far as Esports gaming becoming one of the largest and most viewed sports out there that is very possible. 30 years ago kids did not sit at home and stream fortnite. Now days anyone can do it. As video games upgrade and get more futuristic I think It may very well be a #1 in the gambling industry as well!!!


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: michellee on July 02, 2019, 03:38:07 AM
I think if one sport were very popular, it would attract more money to come inside them and of course, that will attract more advertiser to come too, and that means, they will make a lot of money. And that will make the prize will increase too so they can give the money to the winners. Besides the player, I think they will attract more new people to take a look at the sports, and I think they will interest to join with them too.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: STT on July 02, 2019, 03:52:49 AM
Quote
I totally wouldn't be surprised if esports becomes more popular than regular sports one day.

If we're talking audience participation its already bigger then regular sports.    Thats how the prize pool is so large because the cosmetic items in the game are going towards that prize pool, its seen as raising the games profile and also encouraging more sales overall so its heavily promoted by the developers themselves.

I've been bullish on esports for at least five years.   Some games are better suited then others and ideally there should be a line of cosmetic items.

Its not that massively different to real sports, where they often are wanting to start players young from the grassroots and end up on the national team at their best when adults.   Theres some similarity there I think


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: imstillthebest on July 02, 2019, 10:15:24 AM
In my country, the most famous sport is soccer / football, yet I never get myself to like it.
I find eSports on the other hand more entertaining and interesting. There's also a lot of variety!

all of us have a different favorites . some will like soccer and the other one likes tennis  . in my country basketball is the famous sports here but like you im no also interested with it because im into gaming  . 

@op , good for you that you already know on why esports have alot of prize pools  . i bet your happy now but most of us will feel sad thinking that esports players can easily become a millionaire but us that are working hard are still poor   . sad :(


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: xSkylarx on July 03, 2019, 03:24:41 AM
@op , good for you that you already know on why esports have alot of prize pools  . i bet your happy now but most of us will feel sad thinking that esports players can easily become a millionaire but us that are working hard are still poor   . sad :(

Don't think that pro players on an esports team are not working hard to earn those big amlunt of money. Unlike ordinary gamers, they have a bootcamp where they practice for many hours a day. They study all the possibilities of that game and how to counter it. They are also going through a lot like what athletes do. I think the difference is most esport players have really the passion for games, compared to some athletes they do it mostly because it can be a big help on their future.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: crwth on July 03, 2019, 03:41:35 AM
According to this article (https://info.jkcp.com/blog/professional-gamer-salary-esports/), they freaking earn a lot. Especially if they win tournaments, etc. With your article, it does make sense why the developers start their matches and putting in the prize pool because of the attraction it could get. I remember the time when I was still in college that Dota 2 was my thing and I played a lot, and then I remember the Filipino Team who made it to The International and they won a consolation prize that is worth millions. They started to get famous and just became rich in gaming. It is possible, but you need to train a lot and play a lot. Most of it would make your butt hurt for sure.




Link:

How Much Do Pro Gamers & ESports Players Make? (https://info.jkcp.com/blog/professional-gamer-salary-esports/)


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Dewi Aries on July 03, 2019, 04:03:41 AM
@op , good for you that you already know on why esports have alot of prize pools  . i bet your happy now but most of us will feel sad thinking that esports players can easily become a millionaire but us that are working hard are still poor   . sad :(

Don't think that pro players on an esports team are not working hard to earn those big amlunt of money. Unlike ordinary gamers, they have a bootcamp where they practice for many hours a day. They study all the possibilities of that game and how to counter it. They are also going through a lot like what athletes do. I think the difference is most esport players have really the passion for games, compared to some athletes they do it mostly because it can be a big help on their future.
Maybe he think that esport player is play game only and make money from it. Maybe if that things happen, a lot of people can be esport athlete easily.  ;D Don't forget that esport or other sport games  need practice, skills and a lot of factor to be good in that kind or sport. And only which is best can be pick up as athlete.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Cherylstar86 on July 03, 2019, 08:12:32 PM
Yes, they really is capable to offer that price to all players whose interested to bet online using eSports and the reason really provide interest for everybody. This involved a lot of sports whom everyone can participate, they could prefer to choose where to bet at their favorite sports like Basketball, Tennis, soccer and many more. The game event is held live and participants of the gambling can use their funds instantly without any hassle, because the live betting results is done realtime.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: STT on July 03, 2019, 09:04:31 PM
The amount of hours required to be good is far past a normal job, of this we can be sure and in some instances its taken to the extreme and could be 80 hours a week.   Being an entertainment type game, its beyond just normal practise even training within a sport.    These people can be training, playing, up until the early hours of every morning trying to squeeze in more practise.

Its also a really harsh existence as the career participation may be as little as five years before competitiveness at the top level is lost.   Some might say its great pay but also it requires absolute success in order to say that and when its a team sport, you are in the hands of others who may or may not take it as seriously as you.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: FlightyPouch on July 03, 2019, 10:02:53 PM
I figured it had a lot to do with the Skins and outfits from In-Game purchases. But that is crazy Epic Games is going to fund $100,000,000 towards fortnite Competitions this next year....

Also as far as Esports gaming becoming one of the largest and most viewed sports out there that is very possible. 30 years ago kids did not sit at home and stream fortnite. Now days anyone can do it. As video games upgrade and get more futuristic I think It may very well be a #1 in the gambling industry as well!!!

It will be, in fact there are a lot of companies, big companies that invest in this. A legend player is said to already invested his money in an esports team, I am so amazed reading that. I think more and more people will be going and be doing this kind of job in the future. While the internet is with us, people will make money for it. From content creators to professional gamers.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: TimeTeller on July 03, 2019, 11:49:53 PM
According to this article (https://info.jkcp.com/blog/professional-gamer-salary-esports/), they freaking earn a lot. Especially if they win tournaments, etc. With your article, it does make sense why the developers start their matches and putting in the prize pool because of the attraction it could get. I remember the time when I was still in college that Dota 2 was my thing and I played a lot, and then I remember the Filipino Team who made it to The International and they won a consolation prize that is worth millions. They started to get famous and just became rich in gaming. It is possible, but you need to train a lot and play a lot. Most of it would make your butt hurt for sure.




Link:

How Much Do Pro Gamers & ESports Players Make? (https://info.jkcp.com/blog/professional-gamer-salary-esports/)

More than likely, there are days that they do not sleep just to play continuously.
And also, there's a reason why there are gaming chairs and pretty expensive than regular office chair.  ;)
You should have passion in this kind of sport, otherwise, you can't withstand the long hours of playing.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oceat on July 04, 2019, 12:02:55 AM
...
Its not that massively different to real sports, where they often are wanting to start players young from the grassroots and end up on the national team at their best when adults.   Theres some similarity there I think
The similarities are that they practice a lot yet the difference is that the other one is on the field shedding blood and sweat just to attain the level of mastery that they need. Unless from people who are just facing a computer while taking it all easy without putting a lot of effort to sweat. Although the stress level of both esports and real sports are almost the same when it comes to teamwork.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: LogitechMouse on July 04, 2019, 02:21:25 AM
I know it already but the crowdfunding part is the thing that I don't know to be honest. That is why eSport games like Dota 2, LOL, Mobile Legends wants you to use your money to buy some amazing items on the game.


I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Janation on July 04, 2019, 03:16:54 AM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

Not just the salaries, but the sponsors are also great.

Some of the known players in a streaming site are Shroud, Ninja, DrDisrespect, they have sponsors and merchs that make them more money. Pewdiepie also is a gamer, a content creator with a huge number of the fanbase and huge profit out of merchs and sponsor deals. Those parents that say you will achieve nothing out of these games, well, how about now? Right?


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: crwth on July 04, 2019, 06:48:31 AM
~snip
More than likely, there are days that they do not sleep just to play continuously.
And also, there's a reason why there are gaming chairs and pretty expensive than regular office chair.  ;)
You should have passion in this kind of sport, otherwise, you can't withstand the long hours of playing.
Well, I know that they play in a gaming house and just stay there. They receive compensation with what they are doing. Monthly salary maybe? Additional with the streaming that they are doing and just keep on practicing. I'm just amazed by their will because personally, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore (growing old and of course, not a professional player). I think you would have passion with the game if you are really good at it, I think that's pretty standard for them.

I think Gaming Chairs should be bought if you really want a comfortable experience with your gaming. $399 USD for a great gaming chair would be nice if you would really use it a lot. I got mine around $100, and I think it's okay for a casual gamer like me.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: RivAngE on July 09, 2019, 06:25:23 AM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 8 hours to be a pro player man!
It's more like players are honing their skills from since they were kids in order to reach a pro level.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: stomachgrowls on July 09, 2019, 08:29:33 PM
~snip
More than likely, there are days that they do not sleep just to play continuously.
And also, there's a reason why there are gaming chairs and pretty expensive than regular office chair.  ;)
You should have passion in this kind of sport, otherwise, you can't withstand the long hours of playing.
Well, I know that they play in a gaming house and just stay there. They receive compensation with what they are doing. Monthly salary maybe? Additional with the streaming that they are doing and just keep on practicing. I'm just amazed by their will because personally, I wouldn't be able to do that anymore (growing old and of course, not a professional player). I think you would have passion with the game if you are really good at it, I think that's pretty standard for them.

I think Gaming Chairs should be bought if you really want a comfortable experience with your gaming. $399 USD for a great gaming chair would be nice if you would really use it a lot. I got mine around $100, and I think it's okay for a casual gamer like me.
This is a little bit out topic in line on whats being asked but i would join up the conversation about chairs and gaming salary.

Players do have that place or headquarters where they do used to play and they are really being compensated with that excluding some sponsorship

with some companies thats why they can last that long on gaming hours.Training and becoming pro's yet management of that team does basically know

that it can pay-up possibly to win on tournaments.So in shorts its still a business but success would vary or depend on the player/team itself.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: crwth on July 09, 2019, 10:36:05 PM
This is a little bit out topic in line on whats being asked but i would join up the conversation about chairs and gaming salary.
It has been but still, it's connected to the gamers and their unique lifestyle.

Players do have that place or headquarters where they do used to play and they are really being compensated with that excluding some sponsorship

with some companies thats why they can last that long on gaming hours.Training and becoming pro's yet management of that team does basically know
I think it's not because of the house or the comfortable chair or what not, but it's because they need to. It's their job, and they do need to practice every time. It's not just that, the streaming service they could give has already a lot of money to consider

that it can pay-up possibly to win on tournaments.So in shorts its still a business but success would vary or depend on the player/team itself.
Maybe they have bonuses, especially if they have a large amount of prize to their team and management. It's nice to think about how their lifestyle, I don't know how hard it is.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: xSkylarx on July 10, 2019, 02:11:13 PM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 8 hours to be a pro player man!
It's more like players are honing their skills from since they were kids in order to reach a pro level.

I saw.a video of esports team that they practice for almost 12hrs a day learning the different strategies to win. That is a lot of time to spend and could get boring sometimes because all they just do is play. They don't play just because for the money prize but they have dedication to what they've been doing.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Zicadis on July 10, 2019, 03:54:39 PM
Some eSports players became richer than some famous sports icons just by winning huge esports tournament prize pools!

https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/ (https://www.bitcoinsportsbetting.co.uk/news/how-come-esports-prize-pools-go-over-millions-of-dollars/)
How exactly is your statement true? The richest esports players are Sumail and Saahil. Both are Dota2 players and they got enough money in tourneys because of steam and dota2's micro-economy. But even their combined earnings are lower than $6.5million that is literally nothing compared to what any average regular sports icon gets paid on a yearly basis.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: STT on July 10, 2019, 06:44:54 PM
This is pretty big news, Liquid just won a big prize pool run by Intel for about a decade now.   Thats some major sponsorship and over such a long time, such major backing is a large part why esports is possible :

https://i.imgur.com/lfZYIZH.png


I know Shaq owns a share of an esports team, not certain about others but theres a few big players in the industry for sports who are also willing to back the growth of esports audiences as well


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: stomachgrowls on July 10, 2019, 06:49:44 PM
I know Shaq owns a share of an esports team, not certain about others but theres a few big players in the industry for sports who are also willing to back the growth of esports audiences as well
First,Congrats to Liquid and they do really deserve it yet this team is excellent when it comes to neither majors and minors tourney and

about on the thing you are saying here,here some interesting stuff to know about supporting esports from famous personalities. https://medium.com/@breakthrough_lab/celebrity-esports-investors-you-didnt-know-about-eb9a8c395292


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: mich on July 10, 2019, 06:54:32 PM
This is pretty big news, Liquid just won a big prize pool run by Intel for about a decade now.   Thats some major sponsorship and over such a long time, such major backing is a large part why esports is possible :
I know Shaq owns a share of an esports team, not certain about others but theres a few big players in the industry for sports who are also willing to back the growth of esports audiences as well
Really incredibly big news for the esports market to have someone such as 'Magic' congratulate them to his 4.78m twitter followers!
Its just too bad that his twitter account doesnt have the ETHER logo such as this pic shows  ;)


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oceat on July 10, 2019, 06:59:41 PM
I know Shaq owns a share of an esports team, not certain about others but theres a few big players in the industry for sports who are also willing to back the growth of esports audiences as well
First,Congrats to Liquid and they do really deserve it yet this team is excellent when it comes to neither majors and minors tourney and

about on the thing you are saying here,here some interesting stuff to know about supporting esports from famous personalities. https://medium.com/@breakthrough_lab/celebrity-esports-investors-you-didnt-know-about-eb9a8c395292
Damn, Miracle- always getting on to the top he never fails to amaze me everytime he plays either majors or minors tournament. Probably their manager has the biggest smile always whenever his team compete and wins. They might get to the top if they have a secret plan to play and i've seen some quite changes on his playing style since they lost on TI8.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Zicadis on July 10, 2019, 07:07:44 PM
I know Shaq owns a share of an esports team, not certain about others but theres a few big players in the industry for sports who are also willing to back the growth of esports audiences as well
First,Congrats to Liquid and they do really deserve it yet this team is excellent when it comes to neither majors and minors tourney and

about on the thing you are saying here,here some interesting stuff to know about supporting esports from famous personalities. https://medium.com/@breakthrough_lab/celebrity-esports-investors-you-didnt-know-about-eb9a8c395292
Damn, Miracle- always getting on to the top he never fails to amaze me everytime he plays either majors or minors tournament. Probably their manager has the biggest smile always whenever his team compete and wins. They might get to the top if they have a secret plan to play and i've seen some quite changes on his playing style since they lost on TI8.

I am just glad to see that there are so many TI followers and Dota2 players here. Otherwise it is always LoL or Overwatch or some other western shit. I wonder if Starcraft could be brought into prominence again through steam..


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: STT on July 10, 2019, 10:41:38 PM
I'm a big CSGO spectator, player and bettor but I was far more involved when csgolounge was still a thing and skins wasnt so controversial.  Unfortunately because of modern economics, just about everything easily tradable turns into a prototype currency and skins was being used as much.   Its been locked down alot, probably benefits crypto use but a bit sad for me as I found it useful for betting lots of games with skins I didnt even want, so free fun basically  ;D

Overall I know CSGO population has grown alot and also as a spectator event its much bigger then five years ago.  Afaik thats true of many esports, I'am biased towards thinking CSGO has a natural peak/flow narrative to its game and a fairly basic concept of 'go blow up their stuff'    I can be lost on DOTA or other games if I fail to appreciate the advantage to each facet, they could be a bit more noob friendly.    
    Thats my argument for just about any part of fast growing industry, look after your new people if you want good growth

Its just too bad that his twitter account doesnt have the ETHER logo such as this pic shows  ;)


I just checked now and its not there and it was my screen cap.  I have an extension that tries to link through to blockchains to give detailed breakdown on addresses more easily, a good thing to have usually for info.   Nothing resembles ETH address on his page, weird.   Hopefully it wasnt a scam comment, sometimes on twitter they try to insist they are running a contest of some kind and block the OP to stop them seeing it on their comments.

[I double checked, ironically its just saying I have no info on this guy heh]
https://i.imgur.com/uNSgvOl.png


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Nellayar on July 10, 2019, 11:32:12 PM
It is due to the popularity of the game world wide since Dota 1 was already famous before with their online server using Garena. Since valve made the Dota 2 the popularity of it to the older player who tend to play Dota 1 before was gaining too much attention to the society. Which it makes more famous because people around the world who loves that game was so eager to watch the live game just like an Olympic sports.
I will connect this topic to Ausubel's Meaningful Theory wherein we connect the knowledge to our previous prior knowledge. We tend to watch the livestream and bet because we have prior knowledge about DOTA. Since it was famous before, many players knew it already. That is why esports has high prize pools because many players know the game and how the games play. As a spectator who have knowledge in esports, I will always bet based upon my observation.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: LogitechMouse on July 11, 2019, 01:56:29 AM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 8 hours to be a pro player man!
It's more like players are honing their skills from since they were kids in order to reach a pro level.
Yeah more than 8 hours to be a professional player.
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on July 13, 2019, 09:43:17 PM
Yeah more than 8 hours to be a professional player.
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.
8 hours to become a pro player in what e-sport? if this would be Dota 2 that wouldn't suffice. Playing Dota 2 to hone your skills will take you a lot of time and playing 8 hours won't be enough. It will take your months to years of experience to become good with it depending on the role that you're mastering. There's specific role for each game where you can practice and improve it. I'm practicing to become support and increasing your MMR will notice you by some teams.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: virasog on July 14, 2019, 06:11:43 AM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 8 hours to be a pro player man!
It's more like players are honing their skills from since they were kids in order to reach a pro level.
Yeah more than 8 hours to be a professional player.
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.


Are you sure we only need 8+ hours to become expert in esports ? I do not think any can become an expert in only 8-10 hours.
It may take many days, weeks or months when a player can become perfect.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on July 15, 2019, 03:12:03 PM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 8 hours to be a pro player man!
It's more like players are honing their skills from since they were kids in order to reach a pro level.
Yeah more than 8 hours to be a professional player.
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.

Are you sure we only need 8+ hours to become expert in esports ? I do not think any can become an expert in only 8-10 hours.
It may take many days, weeks or months when a player can become perfect.
I've said that in my post before yours that it's impossible to get into the pro-scene by just playing 8 hours in total of your lifetime career. Pro e-sports has been dedicating most of their time and 8 hours is their daily dose.
8 hours everyday just to practice and to become better so it's either they just mistold that it's 8 hours of daily dose or they really were saying that it's just about 8 hours to become pro.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: STT on July 15, 2019, 11:56:17 PM
That would be one hell of a natural talent, some people do progress far fast then others but I think 6 months is the fast time scale and most would wonder if this person is cheating to rise up so fast.
    I think Stewie from CSGO is the player I saw grow fastest but there has been a few, some lose track at the top level and never truely make it.

Most people have to devote most of their life to get the results and then its only for a while that they can compete at the top.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: michellee on July 16, 2019, 03:29:00 AM
I have played some eSports games already and the players spend more than 8 hours playing just to be a pro player. Yes the money they got is way higher compare to a regular employee but the time they spend is longer. Overall, it is worth it because you can be popular around the world and at the same time get a huge salary.

I'm pretty sure it takes more than 8 hours to be a pro player man!
It's more like players are honing their skills from since they were kids in order to reach a pro level.
Yeah more than 8 hours to be a professional player.
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.

They need more time to become a professional player, and I don't think they can reach it for 8 hours or day because they need to play the game all day, never stop. If many people know about that, I think they will change their jobs to become a pro player because the salary will bigger to them than if they work in the office ;D


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: sana54210 on July 16, 2019, 07:47:14 PM
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.

Are you sure we only need 8+ hours to become expert in esports ? I do not think any can become an expert in only 8-10 hours.
It may take many days, weeks or months when a player can become perfect.
I've said that in my post before yours that it's impossible to get into the pro-scene by just playing 8 hours in total of your lifetime career. Pro e-sports has been dedicating most of their time and 8 hours is their daily dose.
8 hours everyday just to practice and to become better so it's either they just mistold that it's 8 hours of daily dose or they really were saying that it's just about 8 hours to become pro.
Mate, what kind of life is that for one to spend 8 hours of his or her time a day on game just to simply become a pro, is that the only game that we have in the whole world, I doubt if there will be any serious family person that will do that even if the goal is to make money, and the money we are even talking about is not something that is certain because anything gambling and betting is just a pure game of luck.

The only people you will mostly find doing this are people that does not have work to do or serving anyone, or students that are still in school, and even as a student, the only time he can spare is a time for holidays. I am going to take out time one day to really be sure that esport requires up to 8 hours playing it.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on July 16, 2019, 09:53:49 PM
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.

Are you sure we only need 8+ hours to become expert in esports ? I do not think any can become an expert in only 8-10 hours.
It may take many days, weeks or months when a player can become perfect.
I've said that in my post before yours that it's impossible to get into the pro-scene by just playing 8 hours in total of your lifetime career. Pro e-sports has been dedicating most of their time and 8 hours is their daily dose.
8 hours everyday just to practice and to become better so it's either they just mistold that it's 8 hours of daily dose or they really were saying that it's just about 8 hours to become pro.
Mate, what kind of life is that for one to spend 8 hours of his or her time a day on game just to simply become a pro, is that the only game that we have in the whole world, I doubt if there will be any serious family person that will do that even if the goal is to make money, and the money we are even talking about is not something that is certain because anything gambling and betting is just a pure game of luck.

The only people you will mostly find doing this are people that does not have work to do or serving anyone, or students that are still in school, and even as a student, the only time he can spare is a time for holidays. I am going to take out time one day to really be sure that esport requires up to 8 hours playing it.
I guess you are not really into e-sports huh? to give you an idea and example you may want to watch and search about success stories of teams and players of Dota 2 and CS:GO. In reality, there really are professional e-sports players and I understand that there are people that are not aware of it and still can't believe that it's now a daily job and a career that can make a living out of it.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Oilacris on July 16, 2019, 10:21:43 PM
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.

Are you sure we only need 8+ hours to become expert in esports ? I do not think any can become an expert in only 8-10 hours.
It may take many days, weeks or months when a player can become perfect.
I've said that in my post before yours that it's impossible to get into the pro-scene by just playing 8 hours in total of your lifetime career. Pro e-sports has been dedicating most of their time and 8 hours is their daily dose.
8 hours everyday just to practice and to become better so it's either they just mistold that it's 8 hours of daily dose or they really were saying that it's just about 8 hours to become pro.
Mate, what kind of life is that for one to spend 8 hours of his or her time a day on game just to simply become a pro, is that the only game that we have in the whole world, I doubt if there will be any serious family person that will do that even if the goal is to make money, and the money we are even talking about is not something that is certain because anything gambling and betting is just a pure game of luck.

The only people you will mostly find doing this are people that does not have work to do or serving anyone, or students that are still in school, and even as a student, the only time he can spare is a time for holidays. I am going to take out time one day to really be sure that esport requires up to 8 hours playing it.
I guess you are not really into e-sports huh? to give you an idea and example you may want to watch and search about success stories of teams and players of Dota 2 and CS:GO. In reality, there really are professional e-sports players and I understand that there are people that are not aware of it and still can't believe that it's now a daily job and a career that can make a living out of it.
For people that doesn't watch too much news nor being updated on latest tech trends will missed out Esports popularity.

There are lots of true story of players on youtube which the thing you have said was right where even those people do make a living
with just playing some games on their entire life. ;D


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on July 16, 2019, 10:58:02 PM
More time they spend but as long as they are happy with what they are doing then its good :). More time = pro player + more salary for them :D.

Are you sure we only need 8+ hours to become expert in esports ? I do not think any can become an expert in only 8-10 hours.
It may take many days, weeks or months when a player can become perfect.
I've said that in my post before yours that it's impossible to get into the pro-scene by just playing 8 hours in total of your lifetime career. Pro e-sports has been dedicating most of their time and 8 hours is their daily dose.
8 hours everyday just to practice and to become better so it's either they just mistold that it's 8 hours of daily dose or they really were saying that it's just about 8 hours to become pro.
Mate, what kind of life is that for one to spend 8 hours of his or her time a day on game just to simply become a pro, is that the only game that we have in the whole world, I doubt if there will be any serious family person that will do that even if the goal is to make money, and the money we are even talking about is not something that is certain because anything gambling and betting is just a pure game of luck.

The only people you will mostly find doing this are people that does not have work to do or serving anyone, or students that are still in school, and even as a student, the only time he can spare is a time for holidays. I am going to take out time one day to really be sure that esport requires up to 8 hours playing it.
I guess you are not really into e-sports huh? to give you an idea and example you may want to watch and search about success stories of teams and players of Dota 2 and CS:GO. In reality, there really are professional e-sports players and I understand that there are people that are not aware of it and still can't believe that it's now a daily job and a career that can make a living out of it.
For people that doesn't watch too much news nor being updated on latest tech trends will missed out Esports popularity.

There are lots of true story of players on youtube which the thing you have said was right where even those people do make a living
with just playing some games on their entire life. ;D
Yeah that's why I'm telling him to watch those success stories of those teams that came from nothing to glory. If that's not enough, the media is also aware on how much this industry has.
Global esports revenues to top $1 billion in 2019: report (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-videogames-outlook/global-esports-revenues-to-top-1-billion-in-2019-report-idUSKCN1Q11XY)


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on July 19, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
But sometimes, those gamers who put all their time playing just wants to kill time and enjoy wasting money without any goals at all.
No, they aren't killing time after choosing to get into the professional scene. Professional e-sports players are like athletes that dedicated most of their time and life to the chosen sport. Do you think those sports athletes are just killing time and enjoy wasting money without any goals?
You are looking to them as if e-sports pro scene is just all about killing time.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: shoreno on July 19, 2019, 03:45:30 PM
But sometimes, those gamers who put all their time playing just wants to kill time and enjoy wasting money without any goals at all.
No, they aren't killing time after choosing to get into the professional scene. Professional e-sports players are like athletes that dedicated most of their time and life to the chosen sport. Do you think those sports athletes are just killing time and enjoy wasting money without any goals?
You are looking to them as if e-sports pro scene is just all about killing time.

thats right . its not what you call wasting/killing time but that is already thier profession  . they dont also waste thier money but they earn money thru playing because pro players have a sponsors  . infact they even earn more salary than any other regular jobs out there , so dont under estimate pro gamers  . there are items that we can buy on games but i think the purpose on why they make those items is also for the profit and not to add on the prize pool  . prize pool is i think sponsored


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Johnzky on July 19, 2019, 06:13:17 PM
It all depends on how popular the sport is among the viewers.  This is where all the advertisement and sponsorship money comes into play.  For example the WNBA actually loses money because very few people even watch it and the budget is subsidized by the NBA.
Exactly as WNBA seems to be boring though the players are effort full in providing actions to the viewers to enjoy yet wasn’t enough and still advertisers will decide on how they’ll put money to gain more publicity and that’s how the prizes growing and growing now in esports ..


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: passwordnow on July 19, 2019, 10:20:26 PM
But sometimes, those gamers who put all their time playing just wants to kill time and enjoy wasting money without any goals at all.
No, they aren't killing time after choosing to get into the professional scene. Professional e-sports players are like athletes that dedicated most of their time and life to the chosen sport. Do you think those sports athletes are just killing time and enjoy wasting money without any goals?
You are looking to them as if e-sports pro scene is just all about killing time.

thats right . its not what you call wasting/killing time but that is already thier profession  . they dont also waste thier money but they earn money thru playing because pro players have a sponsors  . infact they even earn more salary than any other regular jobs out there , so dont under estimate pro gamers  . there are items that we can buy on games but i think the purpose on why they make those items is also for the profit and not to add on the prize pool  . prize pool is i think sponsored
I understand people that have no passion and don't understand the whole e-sports scene. They are merely thinking that it's about wasting time and money but they haven't scene that it's the same as the sponsorship that professional team has.
Like this well known soccer team, PSG partnered with a professional Dota 2 Chinese team.
Soccer Club PSG Partners With LGD Gaming To Sign Top Chinese 'Dota 2' Team (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikestubbs/2018/04/19/soccer-club-psg-partners-with-lgd-gaming-to-sign-top-chinese-dota-2-team/)


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: Dreamchaser21 on July 19, 2019, 10:32:30 PM
But sometimes, those gamers who put all their time playing just wants to kill time and enjoy wasting money without any goals at all.
No, they aren't killing time after choosing to get into the professional scene. Professional e-sports players are like athletes that dedicated most of their time and life to the chosen sport. Do you think those sports athletes are just killing time and enjoy wasting money without any goals?
You are looking to them as if e-sports pro scene is just all about killing time.

thats right . its not what you call wasting/killing time but that is already thier profession  . they dont also waste thier money but they earn money thru playing because pro players have a sponsors  . infact they even earn more salary than any other regular jobs out there , so dont under estimate pro gamers  . there are items that we can buy on games but i think the purpose on why they make those items is also for the profit and not to add on the prize pool  . prize pool is i think sponsored
There are some group of people who really works for this purpose, they play to have fun and to received salary from their sponsors. I saw this on many groups of gamblers, of course if a capitalist saw your skills and potential in gambling they will hire you to play for them. The prize pool becomes millions to attract players, sometimes those who won that prize are also part of the owner of the casinos.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: LogitechMouse on July 20, 2019, 12:28:59 AM
You call them gamers and you say that they are killing their time and waste their money without goals? You're contradicting yourself. Their goal is to play games, they are wasting their time? For you maybe but for them, they are not. There are a lot of streamers on the internet that you don't even know and they are earning money through it so I don't think you can say that they are wasting their time and money. Also, the team is the ones paying that player to play so I think they would not invite a player if that is worth their time and money, right? You make no sense at all.
I laughed a bit when he said that.

I like to play games and I like to call myself a gamer for some reasons because I'm spending some time playing and get some experiencing. Maybe for these players and streamers, playing games is part of their life already and it is their passion to play. Aside from playing, they are earning from it as a streamer. It is not a waste of time and money for them because the return for them will be higher.


Title: Re: Now I know why eSports prize pools go over millions of dollars!
Post by: sunsilk on July 20, 2019, 10:49:01 AM
Exactly as WNBA seems to be boring though the players are effort full in providing actions to the viewers to enjoy yet wasn’t enough and still advertisers will decide on how they’ll put money to gain more publicity and that’s how the prizes growing and growing now in esports ..
Advertisers and in game item sales makes the prize pool. Before, the e-sports industry isn't that big. If you are in the mid's of twenties, I'm sure that you are able to cope up the glory days of counter strike 1.3/1.6 days.

And the prize pool that's being at stake there is just through sponsors and advertisers. But now, it's massive, the gaming industry is a booming industry, from advertisers, sponsorships and also a percentage from in-game sales.