Bitcoin Forum

Community projects bond members of a group, and can be mutually beneficial. It seems almost impossible to start and maintain such project, and this seems to apply to fun activities as well as more serious commercial activities. Why is this? Is it that we don't trust each other, or that we don't want to work together? I appreciate that there is a wide diversity of skills and interests in the forum, but there must be a few groups with common interests.

Serious commercial activities require serious commercial relationships. Fun activities are made for free and we don't need a ledger to do it when other forms of beneficial activities applies for escrow service; who will be the escrow for friends commercial activities? Theymos for exemple?

When money is involved, fun stops!

from bitcoins as well as all other altcoin projects, depending on the size of the community, I think it's a belief, a good community for any project needs a responsible captain. A good community is a transparent community that brings fair value to each member based on their contribution to the community.

Possibly it's cause a large percentage of forum members are preoccupied with personal agendas on the forum, and would need to be incentivised to join in on a community project, especially if it's highly demanding.
There could be other reasons as well, cause a lot of highly knowledgeable members are not engaged on activities on the forum.

Gotta love a post like this one, which means absolutely nothing.  The other posts above this one aren't much better, btw.

Jet Cash, this forum is like a hornet's nest right now--and I'm sure you're well aware of that fact.  Add to this the fact that even on a good day it's infested by scammers and its user base represents people from every corner of the world with varying degrees of literacy and motivation for being here and, well, you get the result that you're seeing.

What projects are you talking about, anyway?  What fun stuff?  I'd actually love to have a real-life get together with some members here, maybe a barbecue or something with coffee and name tags.  Anonymity and distrust seem to rule the day here, though and I doubt I'll ever get to meet a member face-to-face.  Too bad Jet Cash is in the UK (I think).  Can you put some jet ski skids on your van or something and make your way to the east coast of the US?

I would point to trolling of NastyFans (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86854.0) by users like TMAN (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86854.msg19327631#msg19327631) & Last of the V8s (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86854.msg47224779#msg47224779) as an example of why members would be discouraged from launching community projects. Plus, projects like Friends of Satoshi (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2059444.0) that sold lots of goods on promises of sharing revenue, only to then close up shop once they’ve sold their goods as an example of why users may not trust these types of projects. Few last, and fewer (one?) live up to the promise of their founders. When the honest organizations that live up to their promises are attacked nonstop, it’s clear there are currently more discouraging factors than incentives in this community.

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Want a perfect example of why it is so hard to start actual community projects with actual software development?  Take a look at the trust rating for nonnakip: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=69046

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/sliGN.png (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=69046)

After more than 6 years of running a community project with no compensation, refusing to let his site take deposits, and not having 1 single issue result in any wrongdoing, there are users who are currently in DT that have attacked his trust with absolutely no valid reason or evidence.  I am not an alt of nonnakip or vice versa.  We aren't citizens of the same country nor do we live on the same continent even...

If a developer with decades of experience traveling the world giving talks on software development can't donate time over more than 6 years of his life to working on a community project without being attacked by DT members with no technical skills of any kind and a personal axe to grind, why would any regular user try to make any effort for the community at all?

I actually think this example is reason enough for TMAN and owlcatz to be excluded from the trust network by anyone who honestly cares about community projects here.

Most people who are any good at anything are probably already getting paid to do it somewhere else. Also the fact that this is 4Chan with an extensive research library.

Here's the fact about Bitcointalk, most forum users aren't here to bond or create any connection with others, their only purpose here is to make money that's why any attempt to start a community project fails and alt account creation and farming, Spam and scam, all selfish activities one can think of is at its rise daily. Before anyone think about starting a community project he needs to ask himself are the forum users showing any positive sign towards involvement?.

Trust issues, personal agendas, different community perspectives et al. That's from the dramatic side.

Scams, pyramid schemes, other illegal activities that have been prevailing here, has caused the community to grow this way. What else do you expect, when some of the most trusted people here(example: Master-P), just scam innocent people for a few pennies.

Most people come here for money, and only that. As much as I hate saying this, Bitcointalk is no longer a proper home for community projects, its very rare to see some actual initiative.

Is it any harder than starting community projects elsewhere? I find that its very difficult to pull a group together relating to anything, unless common interests bring them together. You might argue that Bitcoin should be that common interest, but cash or any other system doesn't bring people together, well usually anyway. There's plenty of people on here that have contacted me, and probably several others about starting projects, but honestly its usually a matter of trust, and project vision. A lot of users here like to get reputable members on board for that fact alone, and not because they believe they would be beneficial. Then you have others who are determined to bring projects out by themselves to earn the maximum amount. Honestly, I think generally you need to have the upmost trust in someone to form a community project something which the Bitcoin user base isn't renounced for. Trusting others that is.

It was my latest idea that triggered the thread. I thought it would be fun to have a type of prediction contest about the Bitcoin price at the time of the next halving. Members put 0.001 ( about £ 2,50 or $3.50) into a locked Bitcoin address, and the one who got closrst to the price, scooped the pool. It would have created some good speculation threads, which would have helped the forum, and if the price of Bitcoin did rocket up, then it could have provided a substantial prize.

The money tied up is negligible, and apart from the initial research, there is no work involved.

Not? same black hair, different thoughts?
Human mind and behavior patterns are ineffective, Disagreeing what actions should be taken against other people's ideas and ideas .

That is to say, Maintain an idea, each opinion rigidly without a clear reason, or withdraw if his opinion is not approved.
Be omniscient, so close yourself to seek opinions and help from others.
not trusting the capabilities of other bitcointalk members and not willing to ask for help or opinions.

With this factor that often occurs in maintaining one group project community so that this is not harmonious.

User micgoosens (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1067333) already runs price prediction competitions. Here is his latest one with around 100 users entering: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096275.0. What's more, they are free to enter and he provides all prizes himself - for this one, he is providing a prize of 0.125 BTC.

I'm sure in you started a thread based on your idea, you would get a reasonable number of entries.

Do you mean similar to this :  GAME game *game* "GAME" QUARTER PREDICTIONS (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096275.0) or something like this :  FREE DAILY RAFFLE RULES. PLEASE READ PRIOR TO PARTICIPATING (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3910520.0)

Both these successfully running projects seems to come under your criteria but they are being run by one single entity. Projects like these seems to trigger the interest in many but the participants are not exactly willing to throw out the money from their pocket or probably requires free money. For a forum which involves digital money, most of this forum people come here not to learn anything new or to help anyone rather they hunt for free money with just minimal efforts or scam some poor inexperienced newbies and run away with those money.

The projects which were started by you so far (ex. FitToTalk)  have always been literally very helpful to educate people, but they didn't involve ways of getting any free money. Hence they gained less attention from third world bounty hunters and wasn't really trending in the forum. We as like minded people can start something which may help someone but taking those ideas forward requires other's commitment in the project.

P.S Both mic and krog have been spending the dime from their own money and such projects cannot be considered as a community driven one. The community participates in such things, since they receive something free.

Those speculation threads are a similar idea. I hadn't seen them , because I don't visit speculation. I can see the appeal as a result of not requiring any investment. That project was really just an example though. It's a shame that mining isn't profitable any more, a minung pool would be another possibility.

I'm also keen to start the crypto coin tree with its own tokenised security chain, but I'm still in the learning stage for that.

I tried that: Put your money where your mouth is! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2933474.0)
It didn't work, nobody joined despite bumping the topic for a while.

Guessing is quite simple to join in a contest and I'm sure that will be lead to start and build a community project bond members of a group instead of arguing dramas. ;D

Ain't join the latest contest was made by the user micgoosens since I forgot to visit there in speculation board.

Here is my idea, it is similar to the speculating Bitcoin price in the market. Can we guess what coin will be on top 4 or 5 in CMC before month end? As of now, I've seen in the top 5 is EOS coins. And of course, there's merit required before joining and to get the prize. ;D


P.S.: Only suggestion. ;)

I wqas going to suggest another short term one, but I'm not sure how to monitor it.
Bitcoin is in a tight range at the moment, and I'm having a go at trading the bot generated wicks. It's high volume, micro-profit stuff, and could make an interesting contest.

I share the same opinion as many other users. Simply because users are here to make money and many are not even interested in interesting discussions let alone joining a community project where they also need to make an investment on their own. I took part in a giveaway contest by one of the Bitcoin casinos and sportsbooks for two weeks (got knocked out in the 2nd round, damn you LA Rams!) and what I noticed was many brand new accounts registered for the sole purpose of taking part in the contest.
So that is the kind of thing you can expect. Users trying to cheat and scam their way to the top. If they can't make money out if it, many see it as a waste of time and just a hindrance preventing them to make money elsewhere.

Your fit to talk is one of the few community project but most users here are so interested in earning that the don't even care about another thing.
But still I think projects that brings people together to achieve a goal would still be welcome

Yeah, if you run a free and open-to-all competition, giveaway, or similar with a monetary reward at the end, you will be flooded with newbie and alt accounts. And easy way round this is with by charging a small buy in, or requiring every involved account to have earned a minimum amount of merit.

There are some things like this going on, such as hilariousandco running various football betting pools. I would definitely have joined LoyceV's price prediction thread had I known about it - getting the word out is another hurdle that needs to be overcome for things such as this.

Why don’t you start one?
If there was a big enough pot I’d definitely play. You could post post it in the gambling section too, lots of degenerates willing to throw money away there (including myself ;))


I’m currently leading that :)

Edit - Just looked & you’re 2nd o_e_l_e_o :)

https://i.ibb.co/rksmpdN/9-B2-EB04-F-29-E0-43-D0-9-F9-B-E0-C947-E4-A390.png

I did start one in serious discussion, but I closed it due to lack of interest.

I guess it’s like anything. To get interest (buyers/customers so to speak) you need to be seen. I don’t know which part of he forum would be your best chance. Bitcoin Discussion is full of spammers.

Maybe the gambling section - Ganbling Discussion. There are 30 of us in hilarious’ Premier League paid pool. I can’t remember how much we had to pay to enter, something like 0.005BTC when the price was around $6,000.
The top 5 at the end of the season get a paid prize.

Want a perfect example of why it is so hard to start actual community projects with actual software development?  Take a look at the trust rating for nonnakip: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=69046

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/11/slBe9.png (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=69046)

After more than 6 years of running a community project with no compensation, refusing to let his site take deposits, and not having 1 single issue result in any wrongdoing, there are users who are currently in DT that have attacked his trust with absolutely no valid reason or evidence.  I am not an alt of nonnakip or vice versa.  We aren't citizens of the same country nor do we live on the same continent even...

If a developer with decades of experience traveling the world giving talks on software development can't donate time over more than 6 years of his life to working on a community project without being attacked by DT members with no technical skills of any kind and a personal axe to grind, why would any regular user try to make any effort for the community at all?

I actually think this example is reason enough for TMAN and owlcatz to be excluded from the trust network by anyone who honestly cares about community projects here.

Because it seems impossible to find 5 people that trust each other here. As soon as a serious topic comes up there is either a problem regarding DTs or trust ratings or both.

Well I might have another go with this ASIC miner I picked up. A 2013 mining rig is not going to be commercially viable, so it will just be educational, but going back to the basics could be interesting. That is if I can find the schemarics and software to run it. At the moment , I can't even find details of the power connections.

It's possible that the people in speculation that are actually willing to put their money where their mouth is, are already doing so and would have very little reason to participate. That being said, I never travel to that section of the forum, but would happily participate in something like that for the fun of it and nothing else. There aren't enough people around here with a sense of community, but as our forum grows this is natural to happen; it's tough for humans to keep track of increasingly large groups in any manner that would resemble trust and camaraderie.


Let's start a fund to get Jet Cash over here and let's all go do a meet-and-greet. :D Decentralization, anonymity, privacy, productivity and high-valued assets all make it difficult to coordinate a meetup. Our shared values as a community are similar to cats, they aren't very socially cohesive qualities.


The problem is how often this trolling seeps out into "real" life. People calling employers, families, making threats and filing frivolous lawsuits all make regularly trusting people suspicious of any interaction that has personal depth. Then on top of all of this is the increased amount of scrutiny that we put upon one another; our mistakes are magnified, archived and discussed for years and it is rare that anyone is given the benefit of the doubt around here.


I would've given you merit if I had the spare. :P

It's a big combination of all of these things. There is regularly more risk than reward when attempting to work as a community, whether that be in-person or online.

Maybe we should try to set up a video conference.

I guess we are much diverse and very few active members.  Each user have different hobby and interest so it become somewhat difficult to get the group of like minded people.

I second OgNasty on the point that community here scrutinize and criticize too much.

That's true although sometimes it isn't the faults of the forum users but that of the community project developers must of them starting this projects has alternative motives while others don't follow up the project and lack of advertising (creating awareness) is the cause of the low turnout or people leaving the project.

Undoubtedly, the interests and skills here are diverse. It ought to be harnessed adequately here. It is being harnessed but not coordinated. I have seen several attempts you have made to galvanize this community but most of the time it yields not so many fruits. I think at this point, Theymos should add voice to your efforts.

One thing that creates this inability to coordinate is that most of the persons are more interested in price high than a community outside of price-related stakes. The introduction of merit has put an end to massive account farming and shitposts to a large extent. But there is no reward for members that have been posting fantastic well researched topics and comments other than merits.

I think it is imparative at this point to add a thread on Mete to galvanize these great members like @Jet Cash, @Vod, @The Pharmacist, @LoyceV, @hilariuosandco, @TMAN, @DdmrDdmr and many more. There are also some reputable managers who have performed outstandinly that need to be drawn into this community too. this should be the building foundation of your proposed community.

There are some interesting comments in this thread, and thanks to the posters. My greatest problem seems to be that I'm not here to generate income, and that doesn't fit the current profile for members. I'm a quester of knowledge, and an aspiring political agitator. I'm also a massive supporter of Bitcoin. There will never be another Bitcoin, and I may start a thread explaining why I believe this.

The Bitcoin community is changing, and it has moved a long way from the initial use and community. It started as a few computer guys mining on home computers, and mining is a fundamental component of Bitcoin. It is starting to be restricted to those who can invest large sums of money, and one can see that as halvings reduce the block reward, it may become the domain of the bankers in the future. I believe that it is important for mining to remain decentralised, but current Bitcoin Talk moderation is preventing the entry of "hobby" miners, and helping the large financial organisations take control in the future. They are already buying up coins to reduce liquidity.

Motivation is generated by having a vision and a goal, and when the vision becomes blurred, then the goal becomes less important. I think this is why so many of my projects fall by the wayside. I have quite a few outside interests - hence the collection of the computer scrap, and sometimes these coincide with my activities in bitcoin talk. The ASIC miner is one example, and I think it is sad that I have had to create yet another forum to discuss and collate information about mining for beginners. I will be bringing some of the information back to Bitcoin Talk, and I hope it will encourage a few new miners to maintain decentralisation.

We have a vast community over here and do you really think we can trust each of them? ??? It is not that hard to start a community project here if you are loyal and have everything pre-planned. All you need is a lot of hard work to start something like this and that's the reason not everyone can start a communication project over here. We can trust each other to a extend untill money isn't involved because as soon as money comes into, relations are left un-noticed. If you have a great concept and that needs to be reached to the community outside than you have the whole and sole right to start a new startup but it should be trustworthy!

It isn't scrutiny or criticism that is my concern.  That is healthy.  It's outright attacking projects with lies and continuing to repeat them so frequently that people start wondering if there's any shred of truth to them.  You'd think forum rules would protect against such trolling, but these users hide behind a shroud of ignorance, and while their posts seem to be protected under the guise of free speech...

I imagine everyone who cares about the forum would love to see these injustices righted by the community using a decentralized trust system, but for some reason everyone turns a blind eye.  It's harming this community in ways you'll never see, because talented developers will just move on to other projects as opposed to dealing with people like owlcatz and TMAN dirtying their name with fraudulent abusive ratings using their undeserved positions in the trust network.

I can understand why some people need to conceal their identities, but I've never made any serious attempts to do this. However, I may need to do this as I become more active politically. I can see from recent actions that the City of London elite are planning to replace the failing EU with a post fake Brexit Britain, ad that is going to cause massive disruption around the world. It will also create lots of profit from all the local wars and regime changes that they will start. I'll probably become completely mobile and off-grid to take me through this period. Thank goodness for Bitcoin. :)

The trust issue is a massive concern though. If 1,000 contributions of 0.001 Bitcoin were made into a pool, and Bitcoin did go to the moon, that could result in a massive prize in fiat terms. This was why I suggested that the management should be undertaken by a few trusted legendaries, but as soon as you suggest this, then people start saying it is elitist. Good luck with trying to find a brand new member to include as a trustee.