Bitcoin Forum

First of all let me make this point clear: There's no Cryptos without Bitcoin

The space largely has two main sides: the tech, blockchain and the money, cryptos. We have all been seeing various projects develop and some are as dumb as saying they'll kill Bitcoin lol. It can't happen (at least now that Bitcoin controls way more than 10+% of the market)

So what all these new projects need to focus on is make sure to promote Bitcoin first. I say so because it is the bigger picture, and the hard truth.

Come to think of it, What type of news didn't we hear about Ripple last year??? But Ripple nearly tumbled until the recent Bitcoin gains helped out. As for fake satoshi, hehee.... his story is funny!! trying to kill Bitcoin??? lol.. that's the dumbest thing to do, and now look at his coin lol

Honestly, the mainstream valuate the whole space by the metrics of Bitcoin and so if you're a developer building anything and seeking mainstream adoption (which we definitely need), then you need to always promote Bitcoin

So in a nutshell, the logic is that, as Bitcoin grows, we all grow together in untiy and strength because Bitcoin is what binds crypto and blockchain mainstream adoption.

So let's stop the hate against Bitcoin and the zeal to kill BTC, you can't do that, you'll rather die and Bitcoin will be living lol without anyone adopting your project hehee. When Bitcoin is up, people will utilize products of the space like crazy.

There's no crypto without Bitcoin

I somewhat agree to your statement. However, there are few "if" and "but" in it. Bitcoin definitely controls more than 10% of the market and whatever trends we are seeing since its inception proves that bitcoin dominate the pricing factor as well for other cryptos. So it is true that bitcoin needs to be promoted at highest priority if we want the crypto market to survive.

You are suggesting to other crypto owners to promote bitcoin. But for me, there should not be more than 10 cryptocoins in the entire ecosystem.

I sometime feel that crypto market is losing direction and confusing the investors due to the vast portfolio. We now have more than 2000 coins listed in cmc. There are around 1000 unlisted and delisted coins available in the market as well. More than 99% of these vast number of coins are just useless and belongs to some or other ICOs which are non functional.

My suggestion is that, instead of creating new coins for each separate businesses, why don't they use an established coins like Bitcoin or ETH. Instead of issuing digital tokens, they can issue a contract note which can be converted to either bitcoin or ETH after certain interval. We can think of a process for that but I seriously think that new tokens need to be stopped at any cost as it is only ruining the market without doing any good to it. The investments are getting divided and demands are dropping due to the existence of too many tokens and coins in the market. Think through and let me know what do you feel!

You are correct mate bitcoin is the beggining of all no one can replace or kill it, those are just trying hard to promote their projects like example those forks saying they are the real bitcoin in fact there is only one with "BTC" Ticker. Blockchain is slowly growing and the birth of new altcoins is growing too. Big companies, Banks and merchant is slowly adapting too cryptocurrency will play a big part in the future.

In my opinion, I'd say yeah because ever since the inception of this tech, the progress has always directly correlated with the price of Bitcoin and so that fact continues to be valid

Aha..that's what I perfectly mean. I'm sure you have been in this for long and you have seen this that Bitcoin has always controlled the space

Ideally, that should've been it. We don't need no many coins, but well, as humans we can't do away with this. We like competition and so that's what resulted in all these and almost all of them have failed.

Perfectly said buddy, some major coins could've been utilised but since some developers are greedy as well as certain investors, we all ended up this way which is very bad.

All crypto requires Bitcoin, why? the logic is that every crypto made through ICO or IPO sales is bought with bitcoin or ethereum. But most people prefer bitcoin to save their funds, so the bitcoin network will never go out. Even though prices tend to go up and down, I'm sure it's part of the dynamics to keep bitcoin alive.

End of the day each and every cryptocurrency into existence is interlinked to the bitcoin. The market volume, value of the assets everything is calculated in terms of bitcoin. Everyone is much aware about it, and why these projects use the term bitcoin to compare with theirs? It easily gets the attention of people as it is well known to the common people as it is found all around. In simple terms as in the Op what we do to make bitcoin grow gets reflected through other cryptocurrencies, without promoting bitcoin everything will be the same.

Issuing new tokens/coins is fine as long as it's needed imo. For example, there's no way Bitcoin can be used in the ETH ecosystem, and therefore they need to create new tokens/coins, as well as Zilliqa compared to Ethereum. But I do agree that a lot of projects create unnecessary tokens for their ICO. The main reason is clear I believe because they run an ICO, and they need to give their investor something, which is why they created the tokens.

Another solution that I can think of is investor should be smarter when they invest in a project. There's no way we'll have 2000 tokens when investor didn't invest in them, but this is quite difficult because most people are greedy. Just see the recent BTT ICO, it went crazy, did 5x gain after it was listed in Binance without any real product.

The thing is, project managers promoting that they could kill bitcoin are hypocritical knowing that before people buy in to their projects, they need to have bitcoin first, and bitcoin is the primary cryptocurrency that they are accepting for their projects, paired with ETH and the likes. At the end of the funding, the same managers are accepting btc and trading their own coin with it, so in part, these managers are still promoting the use of bitcoin due to their funding schemes though somewhat indirect. They still need BTC for almost every dealing in the cryptomarket, as its the only highway and avenue towards other cryptocurrencies. Perhaps bitcoin will lose its spot in the coming years or decades but not at a very fast rate.

you are wrong. existence of bitcoin was the reason for the altcoins to start but they don't rely on bitcoin to exist themselves. the technology is out and anybody can use it and improve it in their own implementation and there are SOME that are already doing that although we never see them because the top altcoins are pump and dumps and everyone only talks about them instead!

they are not dumb. they are actually experienced. what they are doing is advertising. they know very well that their shitcoin is useless and the only way they can pump it is if they advertise it like this and have it pumped with hype.

define control?
if you define it as  whenever bitcoin price rises or falls, altcoins get dumped then bitcoin controls nearly 100% of the market!

i disagree.
there is no relationship between altcoins and bitcoin and there should never be any. altcoins should always be stand alone projects that explore the blockchain technology and the possibilities of doing things different than bitcoin because we can't change bitcoin but we can start a new coin (an altcoin) and have that change there. for example take LTC for example. we  couldn't change the block time of bitcoin and make it any faster so we started LTC. we couldn't change PoW so the PoS, and a ton of other algorithms started,...

you are wrong because what you are suggesting here is basically creation of shitcoins that praise bitcoin so that they can get pumped because they praised bitcoin. but what you are missing is that even if shitcoins get pumped, it will still be a pump and pumps don't last. so if for instance a shitcoin like XRP started praising bitcoin and then got pump it will still be dumped after a while and go back to its downward spiral of death because it is a "shitcoin" to begin with.

I think all OP is trying to say is that Bitcoin is still the face of crypto, and that trying to bring it down actually brings the entire crypto space down -- not that I necessarily agree.

At the end of the day, Bitcoin is really all the mainstream knows. If it fails, it's going to be hard to convince them that some other Bitcoin-like currency can pick up where it left off. Lots of people already believe that Bitcoin is a ponzi, and even more don't believe it can live up to its potential. Can you imagine what would happen if it disappears and another coin tries to take its place? Alts could continue to exist, but global adoption would probably be nothing more than a pipe dream at that point.

so you say that innovation should also die because we are seeing a lot of shitcoins?
that is not going to happen. there still are some good altcoins too, take Grin for example which made a lot of noise recently because bitcointalk started accepting it as payment. it has a broken supply model which can make it fail in the long run as it loses value but the technology is being used in an interesting way in this coin. and examples like this are rare but can still be found.
what we need is people who don't waste their money on shitcoins so that they wouldn't gain any traction. (of course unlike you I categorize ETH under shitcoins).

Is this the best analogy or what?
I must say, that I fully agree with OP, and your simple yet accurate analogy proves the point Khaos77 , although you didn't gave it much thought and so your conclusions ended up being misled.
Let's dwell on this idea for a second, in an alternate reality Henry Ford never decided to utilize his idea for an motorized assembly line.
Vehicles remained expensive due to being built by highly skilled, professional mechanist team. Spare parts have stayed costly and scarce, due to small requisition. Private transport revolution did not happen, no roads where necessary, no infrastructure.
Public means of transportations, like trains, ships, airplanes took over. Car remained something in shape of a wonder, short range, electric, unreliable gizmo. This may be hard to imagine as our history happened the way it did but such possibility exists nevertheless.
There would be no cars as we know them today without Ford T and there will be no altcoins without bitcoin.

no, actually this is like saying the rip off Chinese product that are copying legit brands like Apple's iPhone wouldn't exist without bitcoin. but obviously other products if are legit and good like Samsung will exist.

If all the news about Bitcoin influences the whole crypto market, I guess that is enough. No one can know whether this is going to happen, but to replace BTC with one of today's crypto, more things are needed to be change. It is like you want to change the fundamental of a 20-floor building.

I completely disagree that other projects need to promote Bitcoin first.
Why would they need to do that? Bitcoin's success shouldn't be dependent on what other projects say about it.

This is also true the other way around, other projects' success shouldn't be dependent on what Bitcoin is doing, although that usually is the case now.

Let other projects criticize Bitcoin, it's something you can't put a stop to and why would you?
Either it looks bad on those other projects or they may have some valid criticism that should be recognized.

It is not the competing projects that can bring bitcoin down. The only ones who will bring it down are those who have the biggest stake in it. The Exchanges. Exchanges need fees to survive. Their fees depends on how many people get onboard the trading bandwagon at their respective sites.

These exchanges list all kind of alt-coins irrespective of merit, if any. The new money is coming in only for buying these newer projects. These are the people who simply have no interest in bitcoin's growth or survival. All they want is for the coin they invested in to reach enough value so that they can Fiat-out. Exchanges like Binance are working overtime on this.

Bitcoin will somehow survive in its own economy amongst the old timers and the trickle of new blood that feels good about its legacy. Yet, this could have been much more if the stakes on the altcoins were already not so high. The time is ripe for the worthy ones to grow separately.

Lol, you are right but it seems you aren't getting me. You have witnessed the recent explosive developments we have had in the space of late? I guess yeah but what happened next, nothing. We are still stuck at where we are. You know what, don't examine this by assuming that everybody likes the tech. Honestly speaking majority of us in the space, about 90% may have entered to make money and that's why no one uses the platform as the money drained out.

Have you asked yourself why almost more than 90% of Ethereum DApps recorded null platform transactions recently??. That's because the money is gone and all I'm saying is that people will only use thses altcoins and sh*tcoins should Bitcoin move up.

And for those self-acclaimed Bitcoin killers, what did they gey in advance??, nothing.. take a look at their coins even after massive developments. I am not denying the fact that we need other tech advancements in the space, but I'm saying we may not reach where we want to if we start developing by saying we're gonna kill Bitcoin lol..

simple logic here is that;

Bitcoin goes up, ALTs go up, money flows into the space, people get attracted to the money, mainstream adoption grows, crypto grows. That's it.

Currently crypto is beneficial to traders and DApp users make negligible profits and that's why nobody is using DApps again lol.

So don't imagine everyone is in for tech lol...many are in for the money heehee...andbthe money will only come after Bitcoin is promoted (at least for now heehee)... :)

Sure we really have to give respect and recognition where it is due, bitcoin pave the way for other alts to exist, without bitcointalk there wont be blockchain nor will there be other alts that are constantly growing in size by the day,

I highly doubt btc can be killed or there is yet another that can replace it, so as much as the new kid in the block ;) tries to discredit btc, it only brings more publicity,

And for other project, whether they chose to promote btc or not does not really make any difference since their project won't survive much without btc surviving as well ;D.  So btc is here to stay signed and sealed.

It’s what everyone knows that bitcoin is the king. But many project now want to become first and now they are claiming to find solutions to the flaws and problems of bitcoin . This is why they are refusing to promote bitcoin so that they can be top. But they don’t know that the king is king and no one can replace it. Bitcoin is also working to be better so it won’t allow anyone to take its place. It’s better to suppprt the king for all round progress .

Hehee...then it seems you still come back to support the OPs point.

I agree with him because apart from us in the space using the tech, every other person will judge the space by looking at Bitcoin metrics and the better they are te more lucrative people find other projects.

And honestly, we've witnessed better improvements in tech in the space but in reality their use cases aren't growing and why? Because Bitcoin is down and everyone thinks the whole crypto is down.

If precious metals are the analogy we're going with, clearly it's not practical to use Gold for every single last thing.  Other metals have specific uses where Gold may not be appropriate.  There's nothing wrong with that.  But if "the Silver had surpassed the Gold", you wouldn't be the lone kook saying it.  We have this little thing called 'Supply and Demand', which generally denotes what the market is doing.

Some would argue it's not all about cheap fees and spare capacity.  If that's what you want to focus on, by all means, have fun with your beliefs.  Network effects, security and adoption are also important factors to consider.  Just know that not everyone shares your priorities and the market generally seems to have a rather different idea about which cryptocurrency is leading the way.

Yeah like those flaws won't be solved in the future with extra features.

It's understandable that they want to market they product and some(a lot) of marketers enjoy a bit of lying to sell. They are trying to make their business succeed which kind of makes sense but i don't personally agree with that philosophy. Reason why i have been avoiding a sales spot since forever.

Bitcoin will always be the main one even if in some point in the very long future it's nowhere to be seen again it will be remember and named first in any Cryptocurrency history tale or document. But even if that ever happens, i'm 100% sure that the technology inside it won't disappear.

Let the fakers and scammers scream against the btc  as they please
Who cares about their screams?
The btc is the crowned queen and there is no crypto without it
This is the truth for many years.

Haters gonna hate,no matter how many arguments you count against them. Bitcoin will not let other cryptocurrencies to fill its spot but some unpredictable cases can cause serious trouble. Super quantum computer idea is biggest threat against security of crypto and if this machines are able to operate as they said then there is nothing left to do except waiting.

Bitcoin's price affect to altcoins directly and there are big correlation between financial assets included crypto. When money flows to safe assets,bitcoin's price also affected with this flow. On other case price increases if money chooses risky financial assets.

People would always invent things and I believe that even without bitcoin the chances are cryptocurrency will eventually appear. Games had ecoins and some similar stuff which could eventually lead to the use of cryptocurrency. But on the other hand, we should take note that if it was not because of bitcoin which started the cryptocurrency, it is as well possible that cryptocurrency could not have gone this far. So we should all thank bitcoin and the originator for this like satoshi. For without him the utility that we get out of it will never be realized.

Of course we are so thankful for this great invention and this is the reason why many individuals have already change their life into a better one.
This in only an inventions which could give a huge contribution to the community and a system which signifies digital currency will be an another options as a mode of payment.

I think we both know I got it right.  You're not fooling anyone.

//EDIT:  Also, did you send yourself a merit from your Shitecoin account to get out of newbie status?

Very accurate and timing I have seen many projects coming out to say the coin is going to surpass bitcoin and some times I wonder can that ever happen considering the space bitcoin has covered already, bitcoin is the mother coin and all other cryptocurrencies depends on bitcoin for their growth so when you promote bitcoin you are also promoting your own coin no cryptocurrency without bitcoin.

There is a reason why I think that bitcoin will continue to dominate the crypto space even when future innovations come.

I think that bitcoin being the first and most proven cryptocurrency will always be the most trusted. The first mover advantage that bitcoin has in my opinion is far more significant when the majority of the projects are based off the open sourced idea of blockchain.

Also, most of these crypto projects that are coming out are addressing completely different aims and have different missions - a lot aren't even in direct competition with bitcoin. Bitcoin is a pure, decentralised cryptocurrency that has the most adoption and acceptance worldwide. Other crypto projects serve niches. Thus, I believe that BTC is still most likely the best crypto as a store of value in the long run.

I have been telling that all around here (altcoin section, trading and economics) but it looks like it doesnt work.

They are all picking a new token from an ICO or just the old ones.
I say why not pump bitcoin first. That way all coins can be dragged upward since almost all altcoin by now are just relying on the bitcoin price.

It is in plain sight, easy to see. Ethereum is up and almost everything in my portfolio when bitcoin is getting a good pump. Support bitcoin first then we will all be happy.

Bitcoin give big change for many peoples life. Many people get their economy growing better because they invest in bitcoin at early stage and i think bitcoin invention good invention becuause useful for many people. If this market growing bigger, i do believe will change economic system in the future

again you are confusing two different things:
- shitcoins with developers and advertisers who are full of shit. they don't do anything, their coin/token is completely useless and they always claim they are better than bitcoin or going to replace it,... these shitcoins are only getting pumped and dumped for a while then they die.
- decent projects with some interesting innovations that aren't being advertised like the first group and you won't see them because they are not among top 10, 20 shitcoins on coinmarketcap.com but they do exist.

i am not disagreeing with the fact that coins like ETH, ETH's ICO tokens, most of the top coins like XRP, DASH, LTC, ... are shitcoins. all i am saying is that what you suggested here about all the altcoins should praise bitcoin is wrong.

that is not really how it happens though.
in fact most of the times when bitcoin rises (as in a rally not a 5-10% small rise), majority of altcoins get dumped hard because traders pull their money out to put back in bitcoin.

A lot of people do not understand the investors minds, when they think that it is a good idea to promote their own shitcoins and at the same time criticizing Bitcoin. Ask yourself this question : Do you think people will invest in your shitcoin, if the strongest coin in the market fails?

Bitcoin must be seen as the anchor technology for the investors to have enough confidence to spread their portfolio into other Crypto currency technologies.  ;) 8) 

This is one of the best argument for realization that i have read this year,very impressive and worth to read

I hope this will take effect to all concerns as we need more of this now,specially these days as bitcoin is showing some positivity with ngood growth

Most of the project that says to overthrown bitcoin are now a dying coins already 😂

They don't being thankful about what bitcoin gives them instead criticizing is what this coin got from them

Bitcoin is the new thing. It is unique and many want to copy or modify it.

But what is the essence of it, the really new thing in it, that made it run and working at first place?

It is the PoW mining txs into the chain - on chain. It is legally specked up in the white paper and define honest mining and the protocol very strictly. Any deviation from that is seen as an alt, experiments and a try to do 'better'.

All other crypto experiments have no big new thing are too complex, never can scale, are illegal and will die imo.

i agree all crypto come from bitcoin
for those ambitious who say they will kill bitcoin it will take a lot of years for them to reach what bitcoin is right now
can be accepted in some website , main currency in exchange , you can use to pay even in some physical store
what bitcoin have right is not what they can achieve overnight

The logic behind this thread will help newbies to pick first the reality, bitcoin already have the support and whatever happens it will be the first thing
to gather before any alts that will be created, so promoting bitcoin first is the best thing to do if you are also investor of any other coins, if bitcoin rise
high, the next thing will happen is gaining the bull inside the whole market.

Being realistic and always be wise when investing, there's a big future ahead if you know what to pick first and hold.

I agree with this one. That's why Bitcoin is the king. There's no way that another coin will be able to take over the crown unless something happens, some relevant event that would shake the entire crypto space. "There's no crypto without Bitcoin" a fact that people are missing because before people invest in altcoins, it is a necessity to buy Bitcoin first. Also, Bitcoin is the foundation, all other coins rely on it.

yes, altcoin dependence on bitcoin will remain forever, we invest only based on the value of bitcoin, understanding of the decline and rise of bitcoin is very important to learn as a basis for investment in altcoin

And exchanges also affect the altcoin price of bitcoin because there are lots of exchanges that pair altcoin and btc, thus affecting all altcoins

we should realize that crypto prices change very quickly, so don't be a reason for us to complain about prices. so we can take the positive side of the crypto market which is always monitoring a large news story that can affect prices and we can make the right decision when is the time for traders to start selling and buying.

I think it is true most crypto depends on the price of Bitcoin,
So how can they kill Bitcoin?They should know that if they kill it they also commit a suicide,
And to be honest I don't really think that there are crypto out there right now that could take over the place of Bitcoin.

There are some points that I have to agree with your statements. We all know bitcoin first as cryptocurrency. Next is eth and other altcoins. Your bottom line here is that, BITCOIN will still be the no. 1 crypto. In fact, you are saying that we should promote it first before any other altcoins and I think it isn't appropriate to do that.

Investors are always have a choice what to promote since crypto currency world has so many coins to offer.

Without bitcoin there is no crypto at this time. But in the future, everything can change and another more advanced crypto technology to force out bitcoin. Without development there is no crypto.

That can only happen if that Coin is not controlled by the developer and it is open source just like Bitcoin which is running itself as currency which dont need any project to promote itself. So i think it will be very hard to beat Bitcoin in the near future. It is true that in starting lot of big projects which were based on bitcoin are running successfully like gambling industry and which ever tried to promote their own coin have not succeeded.

Well, they can try to be standalone but save for a few like eth, monero, etc., most of these alts are mostly for trading with bitcoins. Many can't even be used for purchases.

They sprouted out thanks to bitcoin and for the time being requires bitcoin to be alive.

Altcoins depends upon the movement and in most cases even the price of altcoins is directly related to bitcoins.  We often see that once bitcoin is dumping the altcoins also start dumping and dump even more hard than the bitcoins.

Bitcoin is the major currency and therefore we see that bitcoin dominance is above 50% which shows how much dominant is bitcoin.

If they killed Bitcoin then they will also get died, right? ;D

I don't think the altcoin can beat or compete with bitcoin and I am sure that bitcoin will still at the top position at the crypto because bitcoin is the leader of the other coins. But we don't know what will happen with the future as the future still dark for all of us and we could only follow the journey of cryptocurrency while we can try to make a profit from the crypto itself.