Bitcoin Forum

I'm tired of your endless unrational actions.
I mean its clearly to all members that you protect the abusers of that forum and give a shit if a legit account gets destroyed or not.
You claim its in the name of decentralisation but at the same time you gave the forum under a centralised power of a small group which i don't even wanna talk about anymore.
But the fact that these people use you for their manipulation so easily is just out of control.
You are punishing now high ranked members for plagiarism back from 2014.At that time noone cared about plagiarism.I mean copy paste of some important news from media to the community did everybody somewhere in the past.You would need to ban at least 3/4 of the forum if all these members would be reported since nearly everyone did something like that in the past if he participated on that forum for a longer time.

But what is most disgusting now is that you turned to get a weapon of suchmoon.Suchmoon clearly searched hard to find anything to attack that member who has over 10k posts and the only thing she could find were posts back from 2014 with some lines of plagiarism.She clearly searched for something which she could use to attack that member since which normal user would digg so deep in an account with so many posts and check posts made back in 2014 ?
Its a clear attack of suchmoon or the guy who reported that account.

Even DT members already posted that you turned to be the most strict forum on the internet.


Its really disgusting that you accept to get used as weapon against high ranked members as it should be also clear to you that noone healthy is checking 10k posts of somebody to find some plagiarism back from 2014 without having an agenda.
You are helping that agenda like you did in the past.
The abusers destroyed one more account in the name of the forum.Maybe you can explain to me how your temp ban and signature ban on that account for something from 2014 will improve the current forum?
The abusers just succeeded again to destroy one more legit account.



Myself i will back off since its a waste of time to fight for a forum where the admin itself is banning high ranked members for horseshit and at the same time asks how to increase the amount of quality posts.

Thats called being hypocritical .


My true opinion about you.
You as admin who allowed to destroy hundreds if not thousands of legit accounts on this forum and did nothing to protect these legit members on your forum from the abusers you put in charge with your shit DT trust system which is being massiv manipulated.

You don't deserve a good community.

But you can answer yourself one question why should high ranked members support that forum (other than gaining money) if their account can get banned or destroyed in seconds because of horseshit when posting ?
You demand the community to participate in the trust system but at the same time you allow to abuse people who try to change something.Who the fuck is going to try make changes when risking his account ?
You proofed already so many times that the abusers with false feedbacks have nothing to fear and that members who got abused are left alone with a destroyed account.
Also your hypocritical rules.You got rules on the forum for which people get tagged as trading scammers and you are fully aware of it.
YOU ARE THE GUY CREATING THESE KIND OF CONFLICTS telling as example in your rules buying an account is allowed and allow at the same time red tagging as scammer when buying an account.
Do you demand every member to read your DT consensus which is changing so many times?If yes why is there no rules posted about it ?
You clearly give horseshit about the individual and that was the main idea behind crypto that each individual will be treated the same.




Bye



Local Rules : Only serious replies with value are allowed to post here


THEYMOS DO YOU ACCEPT THE FACT THAT LEGIT ACCOUNTS ARE GETTING DESTROYED ON THAT FORUM ? DO YOU SEE IT AS COLLATERAL DAMAGE ?

Out of curiosity, who are you?

I am correct to say that your intention is to make me look poorly, correct?

Have you reported any user for plagiarism? If yes then please mention on your post so admin will recheck again. If not, then I don't think you should blame to admin.

I believe admin care enough even regarding DT feedback's, not only about old members. Because I have received PM today from admin about a newbie feedback's and he gave me few suggestions as well (I don't like to share screenshots since it was personal message). So how I will believe that admin not care about his community? If there is obvious abuse then admin might be take care about it . But do you think is it possible that every feedback's will checked by admin ? I don't think so. On the other hand trust isn't moderated by forum you know very well.

No i question theymos irrational actions and accuse him being responsible of the hundreds or thousands of legit destroyed accounts on that forum




I'm not an ill dick reporting plagiarism from 2014 to destroy legit accounts.

FFS Thule, stop this shit!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o6Zt1s75ToFZ0a9va/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c80efd673533373499ee6a1

Local Rules : Only serious replies with value are allowed to post here

But to reply to your image.There was a nice university study that these kind of images are being used by dumb people as they are unable to participate in a real conversation with arguments.

Why do you feel so passionate about somebody else’s account that you have no link to?
You’ve gone out of your way to criticise the guy who runs the forum, it’s not a good move buddy.

With a trust rating like yours I think you’re best to keep a low profile, keep out of peoples way, otherwise you’re going to make your time here even more uncomfortable.

Edit - Nice edit to add Local Rules AFTER I posted the gif btw  ::)

Exactly these group of people just hangin around in meta topics and sharing merits between themselves for bashing banned people or finding plagiarised posts.
These merits system turned to a aggressive tool in Meta forum , i barely see any merits givin away out side of meta section.

What was the purpose of merit system ? it was suppose to be "Meta forum rewards to being harsh and Find plagiarised posts" ?



https://i.imgur.com/a891xI0.jpg

Seriously what have i to lose ?An account which got destroyed by some DT member abuse ?This account is dead for business with people i don't know.
Of course noone can show me a single scam accusation on my person or anybody claiming i cheated on him in the 6 years i'm on that forum but still i'm being marked as one of the worst scammer on that forum and why ?
Because i obey the forum rules and tried to buy an account which were allowed by the forum rules with no information that its being discouraged at that time and even had the permission of a forum mod to do so.
When complaining about the negative trust being called a scammer (because i checked rules and asked for mods permission via PM before trying to buy an account) i got flooded with negative trust from the abusers group who intentianly destroyed my account and defamed me.
So tell me what did i so bad that i as a longterm forum member deserve such a treatment and being marked as the worst scammer on that forum ?

I blame theymos on that cause he is the admin who allowed this kind of BS giving a fuck about individuals losing their accounts because of that shit.
I got a second time flooded with negative feedback for trying to change DT members to members i support.Even theymos said that its in his eye an abuse of the trust system what they did to me
wtf did changed ?NOTHING.I got still the negative ratings and the abusers give a fuck about it since there are no consequences.

So tell me what do i have to lose ?To get more false negative taggs ?
Destroying peoples longterm accounts because of horseshit will lead only to one thing that they will be forced to open new accounts and hide that fact or buy some accounts and to push them to violate rules which they don't want to do.





You think i give about more negative trust a fuck?What can happen ?My trust rating increasing from -200 to -500 ?
uncomfortable ?I doubt so i'm now uncomfortable for the abusers since they have nothing they can extort me anymore.


But if somebody can show me a single person i cheated on this forum to deserve that amount of negative trust will get $500 from me.



You wanna know why i used to love that forum ?
Because of mprep and his unoffical forum rules list.

It was a very smart list preventing that members will receive these kind of abuse.
But once the stupid DT experiments started hundreds of legit accounts got destroyed and being laughed as collateral


Something which would be never accepted in the old days which you demand back.
Even Mods of that forum openly admitted that there are accounts who got falsly destroyed by these DT members.
Did you saw one account being restablished by them?Because i didn't.

Thule, you were implicated in account selling. That thread where loads of you excluded trustworthy members to try & manipulate DT1 was untrustworthy too.

I think your best way of trying to repair your damaged rep is to reset your trust settings, apologise to anybody you’ve pissed off & probably more importantly stop creating threads which make yourself a target to get hated.

You probably can help your account but you’re not going to repair it like this.

Ofcourse theymos will allow these abusers to ramp here,he doesnt care about how most of the forum feels about these abusive people.Dont waste your time,i already given up this fight the admin itself cannot control these hierarchy,not him nor satoshi can handle this situation.

RIP BITCOINTALK.

I guess bitcointalk will survive if some members will part.
Maybe it become stronger and the focus will be again on development and technical topics than on selling, altcoin announcements and scamming.

just my 2sats...

 

Whose alt are you?

It was allowed by the forum rules.I even asked via PM a mod for permission to buy an account for a friend and got a positiv reply.
There were no info on the forum rules that account buys are discouraged at that time.
If you are on a forum and if you don't know if something is allowed where do you check if you can proceed or not ?Forum rules ?



So tell me who created the conflict ?Me beliving in the forum rules and reply of a Mod or an Admin having forum rules which are not in line with DT member consensus and allowing to get tagged as scammer for following forum rules and Mods decission ?


Theymos clearly said that it was ok and red tagging for that was an abuse of the trust system.



Like i said legit members dumped as collateral.Something the old community would never accept.

I would not trust suchmoon at all.

1. she observably  "red trusts" persons for "supporting" a "possible" scam.
2. she then adds to her trust inclusions "proven" liars, proven trust abusers, proven sneaky racist trolling sig spamming puppet accounts and "possible" extortionists.
3. she excludes person who point out these untrustworthy persons past deeds and also attacks them in public.
4. she is a caustic bully and front man for liars and other untrustworthy scum.
5. she is NOT an excellent member at all unless those things make you excellent


she has observable double standards and is a caustic piece of shit to deal with. People accuse me of being caustic but if you retrace my history here in "merit board" i started off very civil and diplomatic but she is simply a total asshole to deal with and only responds to being treated as the sneaky bullying snitchy skank that she is.

Same for her colluding ass kissing "gang" which laughably they claim does not exist when anyone can see clearly they all slather each other in cycled merits, all included each other and many of them collude to exclude the same people and bunch together in any thread where one of them is called out for the shit they pull.

Trying to create a decentralised control system on an anonymous forum that crushes scammers and leaves free speech untouched and a board happy with the "decentralised" governance is likely IMPOSSIBLE.

I  mean even trying it risky but starting it off with people that are already proven to collude and also be VERY untrustworthy and quite likely to be scammers themselves is pure folly.

My opinion is that Theymos is overall GOOD but is willing to let some people get roughed up a bit by these goons. I speculate that he takes a machine like approach to making this board the environment crypto needs.

He notices these scumbags also happen to be very willing to spend hours trawling the board looking for "other scammers" to legitimize their claims to "power" (which is reward enough for most of them to motivate their efforts)  and to justify any "net negative" actions they take.

So he is thinking well let them help regulate the scammers and cheats here (although mostly it is whack a mole) and if there is a bit of collateral damage here then tough shit for now on those that get "unfairly" treated to a scam tag for standing up to their high handed double standards crap.

I mean in fairness to Theymos he just said scam tags are for scammers and for those strongly related to scamming. Guess what though the scumbags here don't give 1 fuck what he says because so far he is very slow to bring any actions at all to those that do not follow his guidelines. He is too relaxed. I mean THE SAME group implicated in an EXTORTION scheme suddenly act as a GROUP again to red trust someone who brings suggests persons examine their past history here to discover what they are really like. This is the OPPOSITE of what red trust is for. You cant have liars giving red trust to honest persons. That is fucking madness.

Also I think he has some kind of other highly paid job and probably does not research too deeply things that some of us that are anal about the forum are wise too. So he may not realised just how scummy and dirty the pasts of some of these merit sources and DT are.

To me anyone that says suchmoon is an "excellent" member needs to review her entire history here. She has always been a caustic little bully (or tries to be) and even now her "net positive" is far less than I believe he has miscalculated.

An excellent memeber should be

1.fair
2.honest
3.helpful
4.sticks up for the weakest
5.fights bullies
6.pushes for equality
7.puts the good of the forum before their own selfish personal financial gain.



Hanging only in meta can give a very distorted view of this board and the members on it. I have been a part of many many many communities and also spent many hours studying persons here and I say a lot of the best have left and most are now not posting much. What you are left with here in meta is a concentration of nobodies and big old nothing burgers.  Most have supported scams in the past for financial gain and have a history of bullying people. The rest are a bunch of noobs that are ass kissing these bullies and manipulators and adopting their politics so they can simply be granted access to PAID2POST at the levels their "masters" are.


Also Theymos is too easily coaxed by some others. I mean removing "politically motivated" merits was a terrible and unjust move the really does support your argument that he favours these scummy little dishonest bullying shits a bit too much. Most of their merit is politically motivated. I mean people like foxpoop and suchmoron seem to have endless merit to sprinkle to anyone that backs up their political agenda here.

Merit is the main issue here. Suchmoon seems determined to to enforce this broken nonsense and tell everyone that it is given to the "greatest posters" and most valuable who are therefore for some reason the most trustworthy??
However, then debunked her own argument by telling me " Good Poster or Bad Poster are MEANINGLESS terms without criteria and definition. So this MEANINGLESS nonsense is now the key to running the board and crushing free speech.

1. tighten the systems of control so they are transparent and treat every person fairly and equally
a/ mandate for merit and trust with strict criteria and punishment for breaking it
2. get rid of this notion of decentralised systems and just go back to a THEYMOS elected DT and do not give merit any use except for stopping account farmers. That is all it is useful for at this point and it should be decoupled from rank after snr rank. I mean after taking all this hassle to reach snr then if you start spamming and abusing it will be a big risk to have it banned or all of your merits deleted.

I am not so ungrateful for the things this board has given me and what has started here to say anything really negative about theymos, but really he does need to investigate much more deeply into the pasts of the people his systems are enabling to grab power here. Also the implications of such abused systems for the future free speech of this board. They clearly motivate an echo chamber and punish dissenting views. There can be no sensible argument against this."

It is possible he has worked out the "long" game here where these systems will eventually start to show some kind of self regulating however I do not see it unless you make 100's of new merit sources totally disconnected from the "meta gang" and soon. The 250 cycled merits threshold and those infesting the key positions to me say the system could not have had a worse start.

I am still very hopeful about the forum long term. I just think we need a bit of a wake up call before the entrenchment of bad eggs gets a little too deep and unassailable.

Merit was useful but now we are trying to build skyscrapers upon foundations that were originally developed for mud huts. Stick to using it for keeping away account farmers only and cut it off after snr.  There is little meaning to it so let's not fool ourselves it is some kind of objective metric with universal meaning including being trustworthy. It is ludicrous.



Not true. Ridding the system of proven liars and other untrustworthy scum is not untrustworthy in itself. That is simply not true.
Actually a decentralised system requires exactly this type of action to keep things in check. To immediately remove their merits and take away one merit source who actually stands out from "the gang" is an act to crush any real attempt at decentralisation. Suchmoons suggestion I note. More snitching from that turd. Always all coaxing and servile when addressing Theymos I notice what a little snake.


TLDR - Theymos is likely trying to do good -- but he needs to realise starting off a decentralised experiment with proven untrustworthy scum entrenched deep inside the trust system and fully weaponized with more ammunition (merits) to hold off their opposition and other honest members who speak out against them is a DREADFUL  start.  The systems are wide open to abuse, provide incentive and motivation for abusing.
I worry more about general free speech here in future.

So, it will okay if I buy an account from a friend because he needs money to buy food his kid which was 2 years old. Meanwhile, he doesn't have money at all.

tl;dr? Am I still allowed to exist here or what?

Ask suchmoon as she bought this way an account where i'm the only one tagging that account where she demanded from all DT members to remove their taggs even that account was offered for sale and later sold.


But since your first intention was to bash my post i would recommend to re-read my post since comparing apples to pears doesn't make you look good.


Just to summarise.....
Suchmoon bought in 2018 an account and noone (buyer,seller,sold account) got a red tagg even he tried to sell that account without informing anyone about it.
Myself i just tried to buy in 2017 an account were forum rules allowed it and got the permission from a mod and got my account destroyed

So now someone explains to me why the diffrences of action of these DT members please.


The account she bought
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=349097

seller didn't received a single tagg.
suchmoon bought the account where rules clearly states now that buying accounts is discouraged .
So if i buy today an account and say the name of the account that it will be in my possesion it will be legit now ?
If so! i haven't bought any account so why did i received red taggs in the first place ?


Double standard heh ?



And to theymos some final words shame on you for letting them destroy my and many other people accounts who really contributed to that forum in the past and  didn't scammed anyone.

This is the result of having unwritten rules and no standards for rating. People want to follow the rules (usually) but if they aren't actually written down then how exactly are they supposed to follow them? This is a well known precedent in law, that in order to convict some one of a law it has to be available to the public for review, for this exact reason. Since the rules are not written what we have instead is a patchwork of OCD vigilantes looking to increase their own profiles by throwing a few hundred people under the bus whether they deserved it or not. They are free to interpret the unwritten rules as widely as possible.

They don't have any standards, no proof needed, it is just a matter of convincing enough people to not be called out on it. Even if some one wanted to call them out on it they would simply be dismissed, much like everyone is doing here. Then of course the user gets increasingly frustrated and more vocal as anyone accused of a crime they did not commit would. You poo poo the annoyance of all the threads while never legitimately addressing any of these people then wonder why they never shut up. Because you are fueling them by being dismissive retards.

I too find these posts annoying, I find it annoying to have to post them myself some times, but just because you find it annoying doesn't mean it does not serve a purpose. Theymos thinks having no official rules is helpful some how. He is wrong. I sympathize with his intent, but the result is worse than what he is trying to avoid by not having set rules. The presence of these kind of threads is continual proof of it.

I'm not keeping up with the cryptohunter drama, nor have i read the thread, but i just felt to point this out;

It's really sad to see that all of these threads/posts complaining about the state of the forum basically boil down to typing down as much as you can.

@Thule @Cryptohunter, do you seriously think ANYONE is still keeping up with the walls of garbage you're writing down?

Half of the forum is illiterate/can't speak basic english. You really think this is the best way to get your point across?

---

At this point: No one cares. The world nor the forum revolves around you.

@theymos, please note, an example of merits awarded on political basis

Hope you react to this as you said.

Show me a better way against the abuse i received.
Complaining is easy but show me an effectiv better way how i can defend myself against such abuse?


Stingers pointed to another abuse or do you consider your post worth merits ?
Cause it seems merits are nearly only on Meta provided and to your post because it was against me and cryptohunter.

You see this post gets 10 political merits from a proven trust abuser and it is actually net negative.

You need to read a post if you want to comment on it.

This is bigger than me or thule it has far reaching implications for the entire forum and the free speech afforded to everyone here.

Sorry that you are not interested in that but at least you got some "merits" for posting net negative nonsense from a proven trust abuser and someone who is implicated in extortion schemes amongst other dirty shit.

If you can't be bothered to read the post then don't comment on it  just click ignore.

Let me challenge you though to locate and present the INCORRECT information presented in my post. Then I will present the CORRECT and IMPORTANT information contained.

Don't worry, I sprinkled some apolitical merit on it to balance things out. ;D

Your post would really be helpful if you provide links on what you are talking about. Because members like me cannot grasp on what you are accusing to theymos. I haven't seen any known members lately being destroyed because of the rules being sent out by theymos. I don't even see how he is protecting someone by the way he acts in the forum right now, I only see that when he applies changes everyone in the forum is affected not only one.

How many months did it take for abuse of the merit system to become a joke? That has to be record time for a new feature. This is yet another example of Theymos wanting to have his cake and eat it too. You want to remove merits you think are invalid, but then you don't want to apply that rule universally, only for the people who are "more equal than others". I see him moving in the right direction, but I think he still doesn't quite get the dynamic at play here.

This demonstrates a willful desire to apply merit to posts that are stacked full of misleading junk and just generally net negative. Just so long as they support his political views.

The post that they rushed to plaster with MERITS

1. admits he has not even read through the thread? but still wants to voice apparently an on topic and relevant rebuttal
2. Makes many false claims.
3. I challenge them to bring forth from my post the incorrect parts which obviously constitute "walls of garbage"  where is he??

I mean he has not read them, makes false claims and does not respond at all to my challenge.

LOL then a turd like tman gives it 10 merits? don't tell me that piece of mindless garbage is a merit source, how could that fool tell a valuable post from non valuable even if he was not a crook??

Then after foxpup reads my post and quotes part of it he then still decides to merit it. Haha

Fox pup - he is one of those Theymos can thank the most for making the merit system a complete and utter joke. This fool loves taking piss about his merit abuse.  Go view his fans and recipients he pumps 100's of merits to the "gang" to the point it looks so obvious and scammy that  - the pharmacist started saying (when I pointed out how he was just plastering his post in merits with  a few seconds between each splat of merit) I don't know why he keeps meriting me so much. I mean he surely recognised it looked insane.

I mean pull up the posts he merits. They are predominantly shitposts.  He is at the top of the back stabbers thread for just splashing out merit to other "gang" members by the TON.

Take stingers merit source away... I would start looking at the real culprits here for politically motivated merits, at least stingers merited some very good posts that deserved merit.

It was actually 13 minutes and 55 seconds before your post. (It was meant to be 15 minutes, but I was having trouble with these cheap Taiwanese flux capacitors.)

Also - "he"? Does that mean I'm not a vixen any more? And I was beginning to enjoy it, too. :-\

Exactly, he is talking about a member, some members, some report, a member, thousands of members but not one single example or at least a link to a topic where this "crime" has been committed.


Who are those members?


Again, tell people who and what and when and how.
Seriously, I have no f word idea what happened.

But to sum it up, at this point with all those accuses against theymos (with proofs as you claim) and you still haven't left negative feedback? Do it!!!!!!  8)

Hey douchebag,what is your fucking problem with me? who's alts? are you going to tag my account if i have alt? your a piece of shit whom doesnt deserve your DT position.
How the fuck my account do something about the OP's topic? do not derail this topic moron.

Who's alt are you? because im going to tag it with multiple accounts.. LOL  ;D

Oh come on. That’s just a step too far, stingers was one of the worst Merit abusers here. Look at hos Merit sent history ober the last 120 days. Loads of it is to shit posters in that ‘let’s exclude Lauda thread’. He was actively trying to get all of those sock puppet accounts to 10 Merit received so they could get a vote on DT.

He’s also sent you 29 Merit in the last 120 days. Maybe that’s the real reason you’re a little annoyed he’s not a Merit source any more?

Hey douchebag,what is your fucking problem with me? who's alts? are you going to tag my account if i have alt? your a piece of shit whom doesnt deserve your DT position.
How the fuck my account do something about the OP's topic? do not derail this topic moron.


Brush up on your English before you start trying to get heavily involved in Meta. You’ve also just implicated yourself for having multiple alts.

Redsnow I believe, although I though he was granted a reprieve with just a sig ban? so not too bad. A real enthusiast will not care about not having a sig. I think Theymos tries not to let the scum bags here get their way fully on ALL things.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting Theymos has done anything to do with a scam or is he done anything that could even require a trust related feedback. So not sure why you would say that?

Thule and others including myself are perhaps just hoping Theymos can start to see how it appears from our POV that are collateral damage to the long game that he is perhaps counting on and perhaps giving it a bit of a better start to speed things up a bit. It can certainly look like this system is starting off in a very one sided way but the worst part is the observable double standards of those that are DT members (not theymos and a few others). It is quite sickening to watch them lecture others on lying and financially motivated posting. I mean thats without them red trusting persons telling the truth about their wrong doing.

@LFC bitcoin - your post is again observably double standards. You are missing the point.

If others can merit on a political basis then that should go for anyone. NOT that my posts come under that essentially anyway I say they are merit deserving regardless.

Also bring me my posts that have had merit applied then we can compare these to your posts or others that get politically motivated merits for posting misleading net negative junk. If you are sure that they should not have been given merit by Stingers. We can compare.

If stingers can be removed then get foxpoop, suchmoron and most of the other merit merry go round banned too.

More like if we look at your own merit fans and recipients and the gangs we will see a lot of them all riddled over your top fans and recipients that is why you are protecting them.

The thing you are missing is they have histories riddled with proven scammy pasts full of lies and double standards and signs of greed and sneakyness. I'm sorry but when this all gets ironed out it will show for  historical you were on the wrong side of this.  You may not be the worst, but supporting observable scum and untrustworthy manipulators and schemers is nothing to be proud of.

;D
Once upon a time, gold firstly used as mean of asset storage.
Once upon a time, bitcoin created by Satoshi Nakamoto.
Once upon a time, bitcointalk forum created.

Gold has still been here, and will be here for ages.
Bitcoin has still been here, and will be here for ages.
Bitcointalk forum has still been here, and will be here for ages.

Some times gold has a titanium core
Some times Bitcoin is Bitcoin Cash
Bitcointalk is not what it used to be either

It might still exist but it will continue to degrade from a historical institution to 4Chan with an extensive research library.

Scamming people is allowed by forum rules as well. I think it was pretty well established that account selling was untrustworthy by 2014ish? if I had to take a random guess. Pretty sure it was listed in the original post of the unofficial forum rules thread. Its not something that was agreed upon recently. Forum rules aren't decided by community morals, but if it makes you feel any better, your negative trust doesn't mean too much to me as I don't find account selling that untrustworthy. You don't seem to have much business history anyway though, I'd value that over your other ratings if you had any.

No comment on the merit stuff, I don't care about any of it in the slightest, so my opinion holds no weight on that.

Amazing how this pattern keeps revealing itself isn't it? Theymos doesn't want to implement hard rules. The rules remain unwritten. The forum creates its own arbitrarily and selectively enforced patchwork of rules also unwritten, a user comes along and would otherwise be "law abiding" if these were published rules, they get their reputation destroyed never ever being aware these rules exist. These rules may be obvious to people like you who frequent the forum more, but they are not immediately obvious by any means.

In fact the importance of promulgating laws is considered so important in most legal systems, that if a defendant can prove sufficient notice of the existence of a law was not given, they are not responsible for the legal violation. This also demonstrates itself in the legal precedent of ex post facto law. If I commit an act that is legal today, and a law is passed against that act tomorrow, I can not be held responsible for violation of the law because I had no possible way of knowing it was to become a crime. How do you expect a party to agree to a contract that is unwritten and ever changing?

These precedents exist because they prevent abusive or destructive uses of the legal system. The idea that people here have to perpetually follow a arbitrary and selectively enforced unwritten patchwork of rules is asinine.

what's wrong with my english? do i have some grammatical error? can you just answer the question? why are you asking who's alt you are talking to? do you need to tag me as well? DT position doesnt mean you cant be untouchable here,the only difference between us,is you have your DT medal so dont think you are above us.I am one of the pioneer here,is that enough?or do i need to tell you that i am here long before you?

Oh no! I read the replies and the conflict is really hard to resolve and it gets worst.

OP, has some point also but I guess it would be better also to let all this things passed, forget and forgive. No one will going to win in this kind of issue.

Global rules, you mean.

Zero-substance posts are not allowed in any part of the forum.

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No one cared about plagiarism. Hm...

Yeah but uhh... this is a forum. You don't need a court of impartial lawmakers to be sure that people's rights aren't being infringed. Pretty much all that should be guaranteed is that conversation should be allowed to happen, but thats up to Theymos as well. Your reputation can be ruined by any anonymous jerkoff who wants to call you a bad name if you don't have anything to stand on, thats how internet forums work. People in general are smart enough to be able to figure out for themselves whether a claim against you is valid or not. Anything anyone thinks they are entitled to is just precedent set by the good faith thats been done up until now. I'm not saying people don't have the right to complain when something is unfair, but there are a lot of people that need to take a step back and chill.

Trust, merit, etc are all constructs for use by the userbase, again steadfast rules limit the usefulness of tools given to us. By allowing the rules to evolve to suit users needs, the people implementing the systems don't need to be in touch with what it'll be used for. They just develop tools and let the users figure out how they want to use them. I think its safer to say that we all deserve to expect an unfair shake and be pleasantly surprised when things work out, thats kind of the way of limited moderated internet interactions. Someone claims you did something to a goat, you accuse their mother of being that goat, etc.

A lot of these issues would be solved if everyone just played nice with others, but that isn't the case.

*edit* Side note, a lot of the unofficial rules here are created by the Moderators without Theymos' say. At any point Theymos could decide, hey I don't like that, so thats not a rule anymore. Hence why a lot of them are unofficial.

My original point was that thule potentially may have got a raw deal, but at the same time plenty of people see red feedback for account trading and don't care. It didn't ruin their ability to conduct trade here or anything, it ruined their ability to conduct trade with people who think they are untrustworthy for buying an account.

I will try to answer your question OP. I was one time in a situation like you. I was red painted by very reputable and high-rank members even mods and was able to get my trust in a polite way just like any other member so far, I assume.

I made no magic trick and I didn't have any friends on the forum at that time.
When I was looking for help on the forum, I was reading reputation threads from members in a situation like me, I think this is obvious behavior.
What hit me immediately that "honey catches more flies than vinegar" and every time a member goes on war with people who mistrusted him in his reputation thread this brings nothing good and nobody likes such a behavior because even if you are innocent that doesn't give you the right to go on open war with half of the forum.

Like any other member, I have opened my negative reputation thread, contacted members involved and waited for them and community to react peacefully, months long.
Just like OP, I thought I haven't done anything wrong and always taken into consideration my error-free past. I was totally convinced that I should be never punished and treated like this.
But I never lost my temper and was always calm, polite, and mannerly in my statements. Despite things didn't go well for me and just after I opened my reputation thread even more red trust hit my account.

Despite everything I have never lose my temper and calmly waited for involved members to react sending them a PM with reminders once a month and bumping my thread with one post a month too at this same time. Finally, a few other reputable members come to my thread, looked into my case, helped me to understand my mistakes, and helped to move further. Of course in my case, there was a misuse of reputation feature and several objections were sucked out of the finger against me.

I felt bad too and I thought it was not fair but after 6 months I managed to regain my reputation. Despite everything, this was only possible because members which red painted me finally after months of reminders started a conversation with me and accepted my explanation and actual involvement in the forum. I am still sure that this was only possible because I was always calm and polite.

Never started a war within my reputation thread or anywhere else because I knew that is not the way it works here.

That post is only useful to those that are willing to accept that systems should remain in place that allow the innocent to be mistreated in the first place.

That  post is a good guide if you only wish for your own red trust removed and care not about others being mistreated by the systems that are left free to do so at will.

Leaving systems to remain where abuse of innocents is acceptable and sanctioned therefore allows free speech to be crushed.

In life one must not only consider their own welfare because eventually ignoring the mistreatment of other innocents will negatively impact on the entire system which we are all part of. The eventual outcome will be - be join the abusers or get abused.

You certainly do have the right to wage a war against ANYONE that supports or sanctions the abuse of innocent people. They are no better than the abusers and actually worse because generally the abuser has some direct selfish gain (which humans understand) the supporters of abusers are simply ass licking wussies that just want to be shielded from abuse or get into positions to abuse themselves. Absolute dirt.

I for one will never suck up and slime around them for approval and for trust abuse to be reversed. Remove it else be reminded of the truth regarding your actions over and over until it sinks in that I will not permit it to go unanswered. I have plenty of time and plenty of enthusiasm. I never came looking for trouble with these people they showed up in my threads abusing me verbally with lies and then tried to bully me with their red paint because i dared to stand up to them and tell the truth regarding their own lies and deceit.

Remove the abuse and improve yourselves or be removed from the trust system. Those are the only options ahead.

The point that I've been trying to get at, is that innocent is subjective. Some people think account sales make you guilty. Some people don't. If you leave someone negative feedback that says, "I'm leaving this person negative feedback for buying/selling an account" then only the people who think account sales make you guilty would care. Those who don't care don't magically see the negative comment as anything more severe like fraud.

Sure, you can wage war against anyone who gives you an unfair shake, but you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. You don't need to suck up to someone, if you just act like a normal human being under the assumption that a mistake was made, these things solve themselves more often than not. Otherwise you just deal with your difference of opinion and move on. Flying off the handle just makes you look guilty to people you may have looked innocent to otherwise.

Or, you can fly off the handle and just use escrow I suppose, though then people worry about giving their address out to someone who can't act civil.


More to the OP's point, accounts that incorrectly cited things from 2014 aren't getting banned for plagiarism. The whole plagiarism thing didn't come about until fairly recently, so its not dealt with in the same way. Old posts are typically left alone as well, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean by posts from 2014 getting accounts in trouble now. If we had steadfast rules that said plagiarism = ban, moderator discretion on the matter wouldn't exist. That moderator discretion is what allows them to see the difference in intent when it came to copying a news article five years ago, versus someone stealing ideas to disguise their spam posts to up their post counts.

I can not agree.

1. persons who stand up for what is honest and true ( by reasonable human standards) are to be trusted more than those that wish to crush their right to honest and fair treatment.
2. The best scammers are very civil you won't get far as con man attracting attention to yourself and becoming very unpopular. They are no less likely to sell your address or keep your btc. They are civil until they vanish with your money.
3. I actually find it very gross to watch people that are obviously wronged (by any reasonable humans opinion) just enduring it and trying to slink around people and win favours that way. Of course you can and should try being reasonable at first but once you realise they have no intention at all of being reasonable in return then as thule says the options tend to run out. Accept the abuse or make it uncomfortable for the abusers and all their supporters or even the weak that will not stick their necks out to do the right thing.

Now of course the subjectivity is where these abusers can lurk untouched. This is just an excuse for them because they can construct all kinds of unreasonable nonsense and just say that is their opinion, and since its subjective then can then grasp at the weakest and most improbable connections  to piece together some specious theory as to why you are untrustworthy pr "guilty" and not the innocent party.

Hence the absolute need for standards which will prevent such gross abuse.

I mean one can always make some nonsense argument that is highly improbable verging on ludicrous to justify their actions.

For example. (you is not you SS in particular but anyone wishing to just use subjectivity as means to make unreasonable arguments)

You steal someones expensive car and then  smash it into them - killing them -- having never met them or heard of them before.
Most reasonable persons would say he was the innocent party.

You will claim he was not innocent. He was wealthy and you were poor. He should not have been so greedy and donated his money to charity not waste it on expensive cars. His greed killed him. You are innocent and now have the mental scaring to deal with having had to witness his putrid greedy body explode on the windshield, you therefore require compensation from his family members.

Or if that  did not go over well with the judge, then you could say that you just saw him eating lemons and therefore he was just obviously untrustworthy and net negative to society. Where is your reward?

Subjectivity allows all kinds of madness to be crafted into specious explanations of selfless guardianship /being a good cop. However, in some cases it is actually just the control and abuse of honest members who are the innocent victims, they are then cast in a poor light by weight of numbers that collude as one gang of self enriching bullies.

You need criteria that is applied to everyone equally or that is unfair in itself. All DT need to follow the same mandate and same criteria. Any grey areas that pop up will have to go to a higher power. However, flout the mandate and criteria more than once you're out. Hence they will be super sure before attracting the attention of that higher power.

Thanks Captain Obvious. Let me restate a very simple question.


All the gibberish above is very nice and all, but how do people adhere to an agreement when they don't know what they are agreeing to? This may be just a forum, but how many millions have used it, and how many billions of dollars have flowed through here? Oh right this isn't just another forum. The point is if you expect people to follow rules (an agreement or contract), then how is that EVEN POSSIBLE if the rules are not codified? Is there some kind of Matrix type mind download I don't know about new users get when signing up? Can they learn Kung Fu too?

There is no one here to stop mods and staff from making judgement calls OUTSIDE of those rules, but you might have to explain yourself some times if you do (horrible I know). Again, ultimately how this unfolds is up to Theymos if he chooses to even get involved. The point is you are leaving many thousands of people GUESSING what they should be doing and causing astronomical amounts of conflict that could have otherwise been avoided by some simple official rules people can reference. The only kinds of places where the rules work like you propose are totalitarian dictatorships, and Theymos has indicated that it is not his desire to run the forum that way.

Of course no position from theymos even so many members are unhappy with that situation.