Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Hydrogen on March 14, 2019, 12:50:34 PM



Title: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: Hydrogen on March 14, 2019, 12:50:34 PM
Quote
More European banks are being drawn into money-laundering allegations centered on dirty Russian money, adding to the scandal in an industry still recovering from the financial crisis.

Initially centered on Danske Bank A/S in Denmark and Sweden’s Swedbank AB, allegations of suspicious transfers widened this week to include Raiffeisen Bank International AG in Austria and several Dutch institutions. Danske has lost half its market value since admitting its role in a money laundering scandal in 2016.

The disclosures describe a network of banking relationships that was used to export funds from criminals in the former Soviet Union to western nations, often via Estonia and Lithuania. Investigations are under way in the Baltic nations, the U.S., the U.K. and the Nordic countries, but almost daily revelations suggest there are more surprises to come on the scale of the misconduct.

Raiffeisen Bank International AG led declines in European banking shares on Tuesday -- slumping as much as 15 percent -- after Bill Browder’s Hermitage Fund said the bank ignored warning signs that would have helped stop the laundering of funds from Russian criminal activity. Dutch banks fell after a report that the three largest were used to move cash from Russia.

The fresh allegations are based on files obtained by the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, or OCCRP, and 15min.lt, a Lithuanian website. They were reported by a number of participating media outlets and nicknamed Troika Laundromat because many of the shell companies involved in the transactions allegedly had ties to Troika Dialog, a Russian investment bank that was bought by state-owned Sberbank PJSC in 2012.

Troika Dialog “acted in full compliance with the highest international standards of transparency and financial reporting” throughout its history, said the press office of Ruben Vardanyan, who led the firm for about two decades.

The Troika Laundromat is the fourth scheme the group has uncovered, the others being the Proxy Platform, the Russian Laundromat, and the Azerbaijani Laundromat. The Guardian reported that the latest documents show an estimated $4.6 billion was sent to Europe and the U.S. from a Russian-operated network of 70 offshore companies with Lithuanian accounts. The paper said there’s no suggestion that the end recipients of funds were aware of the source of the money. It’s not clear what share of the transfers was illegitimate.

Still, the new revelations and prior reports paint a picture of Nordic banks that, often via their Baltic units, became hubs for Russian criminals who channeled funds to the West. Nordea Bank Abp allegedly handled about 700 million euros ($793 million) in potentially dirty money, some of it linked to the death of Russian lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, according to Finnish broadcaster YLE on Monday.

Nordea Chief Risk Officer Julie Galbo said in an interview late on Monday that much of the allegations were already known publicly and the bank was trying to establish whether any were new. Any suspicious behavior would be reported to the authorities, she said.

Accounts at the three largest Dutch banks were used by the Troika Laundromat to move cash from Russia, according to Dutch magazine De Groene Amsterdammer. About 43 million euros were paid to the Rabobank account of Dutch yacht builder Heesen for construction of two boats, the newspaper said, while approximately 190 million euros went through bank accounts at an ABN Amro unit that later became part of Royal Bank of Scotland.

ABN, RBS
All assets, data and clients of the unit became the legal responsibility of RBS in February 2008, according to an ABN Amro spokesman. Though it has the same name, the current ABN Amro is a completely different legal entity than the one that sold the unit to RBS, the spokesman said.

ING Groep NV also fell in Tuesday trading after the newspaper said an ING branch in Moscow kept working until 2013 with a client who it suspected of involvement in money laundering. ING last year agreed to pay a record fine to settle charges related to failures in anti money-laundering checks.

Officials for Rabobank and ING declined to comment.

In Austria, Raiffeisen Bank International’s predecessor “ignored suspicions” that should have triggered reports to the authorities, thereby abetting the money laundering linked to the Magnitsky case, Hermitage said. The filing lists payments totaling $634 million that went from accounts at Lithuania’s Ukio Bankas and Danske Bank’s Estonian unit to accounts at Raiffeisen Zentralbank Oesterreich AG, then the main owner of Raiffeisen Bank International. The bank said it’s started an investigation into the matter.

Browder, an investor who has spent the past decade building cases against banks for laundering following the death in a Russian jail of Magnitsky, said more allegations will unfold.

A spokeswoman pointed to past allegations by Hermitage that had been found by authorities to be baseless. A probe of RZB by Austrian financial regulators in 2010 found no evidence that the firm was involved in money laundering.

Browder said by telephone that the new filing contains information that wasn’t available then.

More than $889 million went from accounts at Deutsche Bank to accounts of the Troika Laundromat between 2003 and 2017, German daily Süddeutsche Zeitung reported. Deutsche Bank, in written comments, said it always cooperates with authorities and regulators worldwide and that as a correspondent bank it only has limited access to information about the customers of the respondent bank.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-05/dirty-money-scandal-widens-with-reports-on-nordea-and-lithuania

....

I can only imagine how excited Jamie Dimon would be if all of this laundering had been done via bitcoin/crypto rather than our glorious and infallible banking institutions, which we all know are immune to money laundering due to them being "regulated".

If there's any contribution to society blockchain could make, it could be in the form of mandated public ledgers where all transactions are public knowledge and open to scrutiny. I have a faint feeling teenagers living in their parent's basements could do a better job identifying illicit transactions on a public ledger than federal regulators do with existing private databases.

Perhaps our next generation of payment processing software could link digital transactions to social media for purposes of comparison shopping on a public ledger utilizing a blockchain. That could raise the difficulty level for attempts at electronic money laundering. It could be an irrelevent point given how laundering may best be performed in a cash or precious metals format, leaving behind no paper or digital trail for investigators to follow.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: alyssa85 on March 14, 2019, 02:18:43 PM
According to the following Bloomberg article most of the Scandinavian banks are involved:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-03-14/huge-pools-of-dirty-money-are-europe-s-worst-kept-banking-secret

And it looks like Deutche Bank is in the spotlight (the money went from the Scandinavian banks to Deutsche).

Given how weak Deutche is (share price has fallen 40% in the last two years, if you have money in there, pull it out. They might not survive another fine and they'll take all your money in a "bail-in".


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: dothebeats on March 14, 2019, 02:33:09 PM
This just goes to show how easy it is for banking institutions to launder money without hitting some obvious red flags and still getting that great treatment from the government. I don't know why banks are only getting fined if they got caught facilitating money laundering and fraudulent schemes on their platforms, but when it comes to exchange operators and traders, it's almost immediate time behind bars and immediate closure and revocation of operating license in most countries. It should be the same for any institution that handles money!


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: LeGaulois on March 14, 2019, 04:41:14 PM
This just goes to show how easy it is for banking institutions to launder money without hitting some obvious red flags and still getting that great treatment from the government. I don't know why banks are only getting fined if they got caught facilitating money laundering and fraudulent schemes on their platforms, but when it comes to exchange operators and traders, it's almost immediate time behind bars and immediate closure and revocation of operating license in most countries. It should be the same for any institution that handles money!

Because it costs them less to pay a fine instead to go to a justice court (even to be sentenced to $0). It is even a common procedure in some countries, and also often an agreement between both parties. It's a matter of reputation the lawyers are generally defending.


Quote
If there's any contribution to society blockchain could make, it could be in the form of mandated public ledgers where all transactions are public knowledge and open to scrutiny.
It's something that could be started with the taxes funds for example. We could check how our money is used (infrastructures, education, health,...) But from a bank, a mandated public ledger could be difficult to implement for multiple reasons, on the top f that they could always mix the bitcoins, who knows maybe banks like HSBC will use ChipMixer


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: Crypdon on March 16, 2019, 12:03:03 AM
Billions of dollars being laundered by the banks is no longer big news, it is something that has been going on since banks were built. Bitcoin laundering is just a fart in a hurricane compared to this


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: MakeMoneyBtc on March 16, 2019, 12:34:00 AM
Billions of dollars being laundered by the banks is no longer big news, it is something that has been going on since banks were built. Bitcoin laundering is just a fart in a hurricane compared to this
That's because those billions of dollars are money stolen by the governments and then laundered by banks which seem to have protection over this. The whole system is corrupt in most countries and people have no power over this since governments control everything. With this kind of news, regarding money laundering via bitcoin they are trying to create a bad reputation for bitcoin in order for people to stop using it.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: Ailmand on April 14, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
I have heard about this news and it's very controversial though we can't deny the fact that no matter how big the banks are, there's always a big chance that it will get involved in fraud and laundering. I guess there is someone from the government who has connections with banks in there and that's something serious and they should investigate it. In the end, I'm sure that the blame would still go on bitcoin especially for those who don't have enough knowledge about the blockchain technology.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: hxtop on April 14, 2019, 08:46:19 PM
As we usulally said, criminals don't need to crypto currencies in order to money launderind. because they have many ways in traditional banking system. It is not so difficult for them. Bitcoin is a place for investors and people who believe this technology.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: hatshepsut93 on April 14, 2019, 10:27:23 PM
This just goes to show how easy it is for banking institutions to launder money without hitting some obvious red flags and still getting that great treatment from the government. I don't know why banks are only getting fined if they got caught facilitating money laundering and fraudulent schemes on their platforms, but when it comes to exchange operators and traders, it's almost immediate time behind bars and immediate closure and revocation of operating license in most countries. It should be the same for any institution that handles money!

I think the two main reasons are corruption and the idea that some banks are too big to fail, so the government is afraid to punish them because it will hurt the economy. Or maybe european governments are ok with Russians laundering their money, because they only imposed sanctions to look like they've done something.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: timerland on April 14, 2019, 11:32:59 PM
Quote
I can only imagine how excited Jamie Dimon would be if all of this laundering had been done via bitcoin/crypto rather than our glorious and infallible banking institutions, which we all know are immune to money laundering due to them being "regulated".

If there's any contribution to society blockchain could make, it could be in the form of mandated public ledgers where all transactions are public knowledge and open to scrutiny. I have a faint feeling teenagers living in their parent's basements could do a better job identifying illicit transactions on a public ledger than federal regulators do with existing private databases.

Perhaps our next generation of payment processing software could link digital transactions to social media for purposes of comparison shopping on a public ledger utilizing a blockchain. That could raise the difficulty level for attempts at electronic money laundering. It could be an irrelevent point given how laundering may best be performed in a cash or precious metals format, leaving behind no paper or digital trail for investigators to follow.

You're spot on with this.

The fact is that there are certain people out there that are paranoid about bitcoin being used for illicit activities or whatnot, but in reality, you've got entire networks of rogue banks around the world that facilitate this on a scale that is simply incomparable. A part of this in my opinion is caused by the media attributing certain crimes/frauds onto bitcoin itself, which is simply a currency.

The best part of it all is that probably nothing will happen to these banks, because they most likely have huge amounts of influence over regulators and the government.  ::)


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: traderethereum on April 15, 2019, 07:00:25 AM
Billions of dollars being laundered by the banks is no longer big news, it is something that has been going on since banks were built. Bitcoin laundering is just a fart in a hurricane compared to this
You are right sir. Dollars being laundered for a long time ago. I think it's not only dollars that being laundered but the other local fiat was also had the same things in every country. I think bitcoin is also being laundering in many ways too because we don't know for every transaction was made, and we only know when we check on the blockchain. Sometimes the amount of bitcoin in the blockchain is too big for us, and we could only guess without knowing the truth.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: niteroy on April 15, 2019, 07:50:50 AM
Banks have always been involved in different money laundering schemes and they continue to use different loopholes in the law for money laundering. All this is due to the greed of bankers, who will always have little of the money they earn. Moreover, the money laundering scheme of Russian dirty money through banks in Lithuania and Estonia is quite old. In the case of Bitcoin, all transactions would be recorded and it would be easier to detect abuse, so governments are in no hurry to accept Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: BitHodler on April 15, 2019, 08:06:14 AM
Dollars being laundered for a long time ago. I think it's not only dollars that being laundered but the other local fiat was also had the same things in every country. I think bitcoin is also being laundering in many ways too because we don't know for every transaction was made, and we only know when we check on the blockchain.
Everything that's useful is being utilized by criminals to have it work in their favor, so Bitcoin being part of their toolset is not surprising here. I do however see Bitcoin's popularity as criminal tool decline steadily.

It really seems that the privacy coins such as XMR and ZCash have picked up in actual use because of that, and let's be honest here, these coins do serve a useful utility. People call them shitcoins, but they really aren't.

Sometimes the amount of bitcoin in the blockchain is too big for us, and we could only guess without knowing the truth.
So? The amounts people transact with are not an indication of fraudulent activity. Most of the large amounts moving back and forth are OTC trades focusing on speculation.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: Beerwizzard on April 15, 2019, 01:53:10 PM
All those news about Russian money laundering is a completely political question. If some countries like UK are creating an attractive environment for storing money there or open a business with low taxes. They don't really care where those money came from and tbh no one have any permissions to request russian state bodies to provide AML insight information. And then, when the witch hunt begins, everyone is so surprised with the current situation.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: jjjfff on April 15, 2019, 02:06:26 PM
There are more than U$ 300 trillion in debt today.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Million, billion.....trillion. 300 trillion in debt.

That is 100% lost money! It'll never get paid. No country can afford to pay that, US and EU economies together can't pay that in a 50 years if they started cutting debt today.

The whole system is collapsing right before our eyes.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: traderethereum on April 15, 2019, 02:54:13 PM
Dollars being laundered for a long time ago. I think it's not only dollars that being laundered but the other local fiat was also had the same things in every country. I think bitcoin is also being laundering in many ways too because we don't know for every transaction was made, and we only know when we check on the blockchain.
Everything that's useful is being utilized by criminals to have it work in their favor, so Bitcoin being part of their toolset is not surprising here. I do however see Bitcoin's popularity as criminal tool decline steadily.

It really seems that the privacy coins such as XMR and ZCash have picked up in actual use because of that, and let's be honest here, these coins do serve a useful utility. People call them shitcoins, but they really aren't.
I don't surprise if the good things being used for the bad things, and I think it's already happening for a long time ago. When there is a chance for the bad guys to use the good things, then they will still use it until they get arrested ;D

I like XMR and ZCash although I don't know much about them and I don't call both coins as a shitcoins ;D
But yes, they are very useful for us especially if the coin can bring me more profit ;D

Sometimes the amount of bitcoin in the blockchain is too big for us, and we could only guess without knowing the truth.
So? The amounts people transact with are not an indication of fraudulent activity. Most of the large amounts moving back and forth are OTC trades focusing on speculation.
Yes, I agree. We still don't know the purposes behind that transaction because we don't know who is the sender and the receiver. But I think other people also use that large amounts besides of OTC trades.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: Pab on April 15, 2019, 03:45:26 PM
Netherlands is now one big ML industry
It is not accidental that Putin daughter is living there
There is possible to open offshore on P.O Box even
Cyprus belongs to Russia in fact .Belize is yet another place
Everybody know everything but who care it  is the most profitable banks business
In a case there is always possible to make noise about bitcoin ML


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: sheenshane on April 15, 2019, 08:33:55 PM
I don't know what would I think and react about this. This is very nonsense. Before all, before central banks and commercial banks, there was always money or should I say wealth^ laundering. Honestly, everything about laundering happens with banks itself and not cryptocurrency. If a person is an illegal doer then options are always there.

The Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project should also focus on the oligarch. However, since the people who do laundering are the people tagged as oligarchies, it is really impossible to stop them. Like how? They are so much influential and powerful to be against.
Let's stop this drama.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: shinharu10282016 on April 15, 2019, 11:43:05 PM
Bitcoin isn't immune from money laundering. In fact NK has done so much money laundering through it (read it somewhere). We all know money laundering is treated as a crime. Either be thru bitcoin or traditional banks, money laundering is money laundering. Considering it can fund a big nuclear bomb that can destroy the earth, and other kind of fatalities or disasters, money laundering is a crime.

We might as well look into country's politicians since many are hiding money laundered in offshore accounts.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: vit05 on April 16, 2019, 03:09:45 AM
At some point, Putin will be considered one of the most successful thieves in history. It is impossible to have the dimension of the wealth that he has accumulated. And I do not think Bitcoin will be the solution to this problem. Nor will be more harmful.

Hiding money is not the hardest. Changing its origin is what it is. Money stained with blood, oil or cocaine will never be clean.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: el kaka22 on April 16, 2019, 01:55:34 PM
It would be stupid to think all these banks that could benefit from these type of money laundering schemes in millions (even billions) would decline the chance for it. I mean I am not going to lie if I was offered that much money to launder and I knew how to than I would have done the same as well.

These are not small amounts we are talking about, these are the type of money that would make a small time bank into a world global power, swedbank is big and all but its nowhere near banks like BAC or Deutsche and if they are doing that as well than swedbank has to follow in order to not be swallowed whole by the bigger banks. I would say its unfortunate that this is happening but I also kind of understand why it is happening at the same time as well, makes total sense why they would agree to do it.


Title: Re: Widening Russia Money Laundering Scandal Hits European Banks
Post by: alyssa85 on April 27, 2019, 08:27:57 PM


I can only imagine how excited Jamie Dimon would be if all of this laundering had been done via bitcoin/crypto rather than our glorious and infallible banking institutions, which we all know are immune to money laundering due to them being "regulated".



I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere along the line Goldman, JP Morgan and others were middlemen/facilitators of this. They have form for being the middlemen in all number of dodgy schemes. When they protest about bitcoin, they protest too much.