Bitcoin Forum

Ok, this is only my own observation, but I think it might be very accurate if you are looking at the more recent Bitcoin price trends. We all know that Bitcoin whales are still manipulating the Bitcoin price. <Yes, it might not be a huge influence, but it is still happening>

I think a lot of these Bitcoin whales might be losing momentum now, because we only see the price going slightly above $4000 and then they take profits and the price goes down below $4000 again. <They are playing around within a $400 to $500 price range for their profits now>

We also know that Bitcoin whales will decline over time as more coins are distributed from them and hoarded by more users. This process are slowly gaining momentum. <The $400 to $500 price increase is simply not enough incentive to tempt hoarders to start selling their coins again.>  ;D

Do you see this same pattern or am I imagining this?

Can you provide anything that proves that bitcoin is manipulated by some mysterious whales now? It is pretty obvious that markets with low market cap are pretty sensitive to large deals but for the last time those fluctuations seem pretty normal for crypto. If during a month BTC price change +- 300$ then I don't see any reason to blame some unknown whales and say that market is manipulated.

That's base on his own observation.

I see the pattern that whenever we moved up few hundreds, the market will start to correct quickly. But I wouldn't take the blame this to the whales as everyone is just chasing to get profit while the market is on its lows. And before the bull run, taking advantage of these lows through small pumps can make day traders, whales or not to accumulate more.

Calm down, it's just an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. The so-called Whale manipulation is pure conjecture and a popular conspiracy theory.  ;D

I still believe that whales are active in the Bitcoin scene, like cartels are busy in the Gold and commodity markets. Based on the latest price behaviour, it is just logical to think that "manipulators" of the price, has been declining and more mainstream adoption might have had a influence in that.

In the early days of Bitcoin, these so-called whales had loads of coins to manipulate the price, but this is not the case anymore. Their resources are declining over time.  ??? ::)

I'm just trying to understand your logic. Your opinion should be based on something and that's what I've been asking about. Unless you are just taking everything from your mind, then you may try yourself in writing some conspiracy articles :)
It is obvious that there are some major BTC holders that can dump their coins and crash market but they are not doing in in this particular moment. But the fact that whales exist doesn't mean that now they are manipulating the price. Currently, it seems like a normal crypto marker behavior.

The whales can't gain any momentum,if there's no overall crypro hype around all social+mainstream media.
There's no army of newbies and no fresh money entering the crypto markets,which means there won't be a big price bubble coming soon.
By the way,I think that the whales will profit way more,if they crash the price to 2K USD by mass selling and buying cheap btc later.

I read a blog post from chainanalysis website few months back,  that shows that bitcoin whales are actually accumulating at the price range of 3600 - 3800. However, I am not able to find that post anymore so it makes no sense to talk about it.

If you see the whales are loosing momentum, it is correct according to my point of view. Whales are most active when the volatility is high because that's when they make loads of money. They can't make their desired profit percentage if the market is somewhat stable.

If I look at the pricing data of bitcoin from coinmarketcap for last one month starting from 17th Feb, 2019. The highest price that bitcoin market achieved is $4,210 and stabilizing at around $4,000 range. That gap is simply not lucrative enough for whales.  If the price stabilizes, they are supposed to loose the momentum.

Institutions are patient with how markets move. It could very well be that they don't mind the current range at all, while those who are here staring at the price all day don't know what to do anymore.

Don't forget that trades can be leveraged, so even the very small range we're in can be highly profitable. The difference is that people here need a super wide range in order to trade, while institutions and other pros are happy scalpers.

Why trigger a potential dump by testing resistance levels? For the time being it's more lucrative for smaller trades to take place continuously. Not sure how much longer this bear market will last, but prepare for more of the same.

That is still about a 5% gain in range. That can still be maximized to make the profit lucrative. Though I know it might be dangerous for them, they still hold chunks so I don't think it will be a big problem for them.

i am not sure about the more bitcoin being distributed out of the whale's pockets into the pockets of other regular "fish" in the market but i know this, whales also run out of money at some point and then they can no longer accumulate bitcoin. also i know that many of them are also altcoin traders who are currently pumping shitcoins with low market cap which you can find if you look at the bottoms of the lists on CMC. which is another sign that they are getting ready for the rocket launch.

The Pope also has a very good calculation for taking very good momentum and in my own mind there is not too much whale contribution to the market now because it can be called a natural rise from various people, there is not too much evidence that it is manipulation because this is an understanding itself and without deep logic, review and maybe the market must move like this to gradually increase again.

I also noticed that, but people are so focussed on Bitcoin that they forget about the smaller Alt coins. It is much easier to pump a low priced shitcoin and get profit to buy more bitcoins these days, because a sucker is born every day.  ::)

Thank you for your post, it puts a new spin on this debate. We should also monitor the Shitcoin pumping for indicators on where the Whales are moving with their push.  8)

Same scenario happened back in 2016 wherein people were playing $200-$300 profit margins until we broke the previous ATH of November 2013, and from that point forward, it seems that bitcoin was an unstoppable force and it just broke a lot of records that no one ever thought were possible. Oftentimes, this back-and-forth between the highs and the lows of the range are somewhat becoming the precursor for crazy gains because we know that people are silently accumulating in the background. I could be wrong and my knowledge is limited about the matter but this is just late 2016 starting all over.

This is so true, you forgot the mention what happened last 2017. It was a hell of a ride and a lot of people thought that the run would never end but it came to a stop. Still, it was a good run for Bitcoin and people are looking forward to that scenario to happen again.

I appreciate your predictions or observations, even though whales lose momentum, but they also seem to think long to be more careful in this game. So if you can see this game then thirst can take the opportunity and can learn its tracks well.

yes, they actually expect an increase of up to $ 5,000 more and start selling, but in fact it's still stuck at $ 4000. I think they really don't get the profit according to plan, while to buy again, the price of bitcoin hasn't dropped yet.

Back then botcoiners get into panic selling once they experience some downfall in value. This increased a lot after the sudden drop in price of bitcoin, by which it was predicted to grow much higher in value. The same gave the understanding about the market and now there won't be much reaction felt when there is unexpected price fall. As said above people have known about it, and were into accumulation of bitcoin focusing the future.

which is the core, maybe at this time like the condition of 2016, where we seem to start from the beginning, of course after that 2017 is a good year, hopefully it won't take a long time the pump will happen again

that's good opinion dude.after we run on long bearish trend, everything in cryptocurrency market start from the beginning again.and at this moment we trying to make new investors interested about benefit investing in this market.hopefully after bearish trend over we will repeat the history hit new all time high.

nothing will continue to stable here for a long time and its Momentum was changed due to a lots of reasons because that renders always been very short period of time we need to adapt yourself for the trend and make it useful this will be the thing that everyone should understand while the price was being high and low.

I think current price is motivating the individuals to accumulate more bitcoins as it is attractive entry point. I also think whales already accumulated too much and they might now working/motivating others to acquire now and themselves keeping their balance stable.
It is just my thoughts.

I think you should redefine "momentum"

As it is the market in general which can lose momentum. Whales can lose incentive or interest, they can't lose momentum because they are whales, i.e. they have enough dough to move the price in either direction (or even in just one direction), as per definition. Otherwise, they wouldn't be whales, right? In this day and age (in cryptocurrency terms, of course), whales seem to be more interested in altcoins since Bitcoin is pretty well established by now and trying to speculate with it may backfire and burn their fingers (and fins)

I also think the same thing about bitcoin whales will continue to decline as time goes on and I hope the pope will no longer be in charge of the bitcoin movement they can manipulate in various markets. Everyone is fed up with their games so people are smart to collect bitcoin until they get the next highest price.

I think the ongoing bitcoin fluctuations are too small to be called the manipulated ones. In last one month, Bitoin price remained in the range of $3.7K to $4.2K. So with the range of $500, it's too risky to do any kind of shorting.
No doubt most of the cryptocurrency market is manipulated by whales and bots but present scenario doesn't show that. Also by reading chart, it is hard to tell any kind of continuous pattern. So it is due to natural market movements and traders in large are buying/selling with increase/decrease in price thus nullifying any kind of huge surge or fall presently.

I'm not so sure of that. Every well thinking Bitcoiner has utilized the boom and bust cycles to acquire more Bitcoin. In that regard, I would like to say that whales have become wealthier and more powerful than ever before.

Average people on the other hand are as stupid as they have always been; they continuously buy and sell at the wrong moments, and whales know how to make them buy and sell at the wrong times. Bitcoin's wealth distribution is way worse than fiat's wealth distribution, and it's only going to be worse because most people are straight gamblers and don't care about its decentralized nature.

People who value Bitcoin do everything to acquire more. They will get people's coins cheaply and sell them back to them way higher, to then repeat this whole cycle.

right, knowing risk becomes very important so we can think logically. for now, I think it's a good start for bitcoin, because yesterday it broke the price of $ 4000, hopefully this is a sign of a good time to invest

I don’t think it is good to adjust our mind to this type of volatile market, if every believer of crypto currency keeps doing this, what input have we then made to the success of cryptocurrency and what will we pass to next generation.

When Satoshi created the bitcoins, what he purposely created was a system of payment that will become very stable in near future for everyone to use and also hold as digital asset but look at what we have all turned it to now, only means of using it to make profit, if we keep with this trend, how will the purpose of the system be established and how are we going to also pass positive information to the government about Bitcoin.

Very correct I don't think there is any invisible hands behind the fluctuating price in the market after all bitcoin it self has no stable price and at that can move in which ever direction it demands force it to move to. I use to think that its whale that are behind the &4000+ movement but later realized that it a normal market movement.

I agree, in recent times the flow of Bitcoin and the Crypto market will not been stable and it will definitely losses its momentum so it means the pump is not been happened for cryptocurrency in recent times especially Bitcoin is not in good flow right now so it will definitely affect lots of investors including me.

I like the way you put it (yeah, I do)

Though I can't say that average people (let's call them wannabe traders) are necessarily stupid on their own. It is rather their actions that become chaotic and irrational (sometimes bordering on outright insane) when they get under the stress of adverse market conditions. And then everything happens like you describe, i.e. they keep on buying and selling at the wrong time. But let's admit it, we all have been through this

Taking into account the market in recent months, maybe, the outlook is showing us the loss of the momentum of the whales, I think now, according to my analysis based on Wyckoff's theory, we are in the accumulation phase, where the whales they are interested in the price being cheap, in order to buy, and the manipulation game to continue, but due to this, in low levels there is not much offer of bitcoin, so they must raise prices.

If the bitcoin increases, the whales know that they are on offer, however they can make it correct the price, only to continue buying something cheaper and apart from taking profit from the movements, with the basic principle of Law of Effort and Result.

In this phase it is very easy to manipulate news, to cause panic and thus manage to release as many Bitcoins as possible cheaper.

I guess it is not a "momentum loss" as much as a strategic planning. I mean we have been around the same price for months now and the rich people can't just keep making money forever from these prices. So, they need to figure out a way to make a lot of money, if they can make a lot of money from going up than they will, if they can make a lot of money from going down than they will.

Moreover, I see that the next type of money making might be the short breakers. They will make the market look like it will go down and make people open short positions and as soon as they see if its enough they will start to go with longs and increase the money that way they will break all shorts and make a ton of money thanks to double downing on bitcoin prices going up in bitmex and so forth.

The market is developing day by day and the control of prices is becoming more difficult with this development. Especially 2-3 years ago, we know that even individual whales can control prices, but the fact that individual whales cannot control price as easily as before is clearly evident. Those investors who are losing power in the market every day will probably lose their financial power in the coming periods or it will become much stronger if there is a possible adverse situation. On the other hand, the reason for this low price range may be to re-mix the investor's mind.

I agree with you, I see already that whales are gradually losing the battle, and this is what I have been clamoring for in a long term, we need to war against these whales that are making the market highly volatile and the way is if we all don’t allow them to make us panic sell, once we don’t give in to this in the meantime, we will get more users coming in to the cryptocurrency space to also make use of it and with time, everything will become  balanced and there won’t be enough room for whales to manipulate again.

From here bitcoin will keep growing gradually till reaches its fairer price which would be based on mining cost and other impacting factors.

in some way cryptocurrencies are lost its Momentum especially be Bitcoin had a huge trust in the previous time but it will not fulfill the expectation nowadays so I think definitely the momentum will not support Bitcoin to be a better currency right now.

Yes it's true, for now traders look more patient and continue to hold their assets from whale attacks, so the current price seems to be stable at $ 3800, so big popes will further reduce their desire to manipulate the market, hopefully prices will rise.

When we talk about the whales, I think not all whales losing momentum because I am sure that there is a smart whale who can gain the biggest profit from the other whales.

Yes, they can manipulate the price as you said, but some of them might be losing the momentum especially if they can not buy bitcoin at a low price. We already know that the price is up and down and the differences for the price is up to $400-$500 so when the smart whales can use this chance, I don't think that they are losing momentum because they can buy more bitcoin than before and they could make scalping trade to gain more profit and of course, more bitcoin.

Bitcoin whales were losing momentum, this has been taking place because of the users steady mind and not reacting to the panic attack that the whales generate around the market. This seems to be the reason for losing momentum, else by now there could've been some market fluctuation by now.

Now the situation in the market is similar to the one that was in October-November last year. The price stands in one place and every now and then we see sharp movements of 100-200 dollars up or down to knock out the maximum amount of stop margin trading.
Leading traders (whales) will never leave this market, when it seems that the market is not controlled by them, all will witness another failure and then you will see who is the boss

I agree, with no major changes, making people panic. so that they hold a lot of bitcoin with doubts. but I think patience to wait for good news to come is needed to achieve each goal

The price is really a force that is propellibg buyers. And almost every body is waiting for a reversal to bull, this is one a reason. As for the "whales" , they are tired for the wait and wishing to off load for profit.

Why do you assume whales are dictating the price? Markets range like this all the time. Hell, Bitcoin ranges like this all the time. It was doing the same thing in September-November last year before crashing.

Most of the market (including whales) is waiting to pile into the market once the range breaks.


I'm sure this is happening gradually over time. I used to see whales dumping 1K-2K BTC at a time, several times daily, on Gox back in 2013. You never see that kind of volume anymore.

These were the good times. I remember seeing Chinese exchanges do crazy shit back in their +1 million BTC daily volumes. Orders of 10,000BTC were absorbed as if they were pocket change.

I think the main reason we don't see these dumps anymore, or much less frequently, is because of how investors are afraid of exchanges freezing their funds for whatever nonsensical reason. Right now they dump a few hundred BTC on exchange A, few hundred on exchange B, and so forth. It's a smart way to deal with the risk they expose themselves to, because the times of freedom are long gone.

The question is, how much of those volumes was fake? We know some exchanges faked their transaction volumes to attract people to their exchange. <People tend to trust exchanges with high transaction volumes. ::)>

This was also one of the reasons why some of these exchanges had to close their doors for a while, when their government sent inspectors to identify these practices.

I agree with you that exchanges are being rotated to hide high volume trades.   ;)

I have seeing this pattern playing out since the beginning of this year and to me the market is becoming more stable and the volatility that do come through the influence of the whales is drastically reducing.  I think traders and the investors are Becoming wiser nowadays and that is why we are seeing this stable pricing.  The whales that has been manipulating the market are really losing out as little investors or micro one are not ready to take profits with the little increasing in price.

I just read some. Comments here and I'm surprise how some people will be asking some kind of dumb questions :o. Like serious how can someone is saying that they need proof to show that there are something like whales who manipulate the market… lolzzzz. Which other proof do you need?? The things that are happening in the market should already show you that there are people who manipulate this market. Funny.

Today's volumes are likely no less fake

But that's mostly irrelevant as in 2013 prices had been way lower than they are now (I mean most of 2013, obviously), and dumping 10k bitcoins was not a big deal either specifically because it wasn't a huge amount in dollar terms. Besides, even if we crash to those figures (say, below 1k), we are not going to see such orders again for the simple reason that people are now very well aware of the true potential of Bitcoin as everyone has already seen it in action (read, no milk for exchanges this time)