Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Speculation => Topic started by: pawanjain on April 02, 2019, 05:07:56 AM



Title: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: pawanjain on April 02, 2019, 05:07:56 AM
Alright, so I just checked bitcoin's price a few minutes back and it was around $4150 and then a few minutes later I get a notification saying bitcoin's price is now $4250.
I was like okay  :) good to see bitcoin rise but then a few more minutes later I get a notification again sayin bitcoin' price is now $4550 and I was like WTF ???
What's with the sudden surge in price ? Looked for info on cointelegraph but I guess they are trying to find the reason for the same or may be they are late in publishing the article this time.
Anyway, good to see it rise but curious to know the reason why. Will update the post if I find the reason behind it.

Edit 1: Current price $4800+ . According to my experience with BTC I think it's a pump and dump because such surge without reason usually indicates a pump and dump.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: shirackjs on April 02, 2019, 05:14:21 AM
I am interested to know as well, can’t find information anywhere too. Have not seen such increase in price for long time and really hope some good news is coming up rather than just another pump and dump.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Zadicar on April 02, 2019, 05:17:12 AM
I am interested to know as well, can’t find information anywhere too. Have not seen such increase in price for long time and really hope some good news is coming up rather than just another pump and dump.

As of CMC its already 11.64% increase.I've been searching for news but even myself cant find any.This is why Bitcoin do really surprise us anytime but i dont expect too much yet 11%
is just a normal or typical day on crypto but for those who bought on 4100 price is the best time to short to secure out profits.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: alisafidel58 on April 02, 2019, 05:20:27 AM
I just woke up and suddenly the price boosted from $4,150 then it's 4$,724 (as I'm writing this) I'm also wondering what is the cause of this suddenly price surge?

I think since the 1st quarter is over there is a pump going on to start the 2nd quarter of the year, I think this also happen a few years back every 2nd quarter of the year bitcoin price surges.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Mpamaegbu on April 02, 2019, 05:20:59 AM
Alright, so I just checked bitcoin's price a few minutes back and it was around $4150 and then a few minutes later I get a notification saying bitcoin's price is now $4250.
I was like okay  :) good to see bitcoin rise but then a few more minutes later I get a notification again sayin bitcoin' price is now $4550 and I was like WTF ???
What's with the sudden surge in price ? Looked for info on cointelegraph but I guess they are trying to find the reason for the same or may be they are late in publishing the article this time.
Anyway, good to see it rise but curious to know the reason why. Will update the post if I find the reason behind it.
It's at $4,700+ now. Who knows, it might blow pass $5,000 before end of today. The reason for the sudden surge? I read in a telegram group that there's an announcement of partnership between Bitcoin and Nakamoto phone. I don't know how reliable that is anyway.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: zenmaster22 on April 02, 2019, 05:27:05 AM
The rise in the price of bitcoin could be as a result of more demand. If more people in the world begin to use bitcoin, its value would increase.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: kingplaya4 on April 02, 2019, 05:32:45 AM
The rise in the price of bitcoin could be as a result of more demand. If more people in the world begin to use bitcoin, its value would increase.

Lol are some people paid by the post on here? I mean come on. That has nothing to do with a one day skyrocket.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: DreamStage on April 02, 2019, 05:33:23 AM
Reached 5100 and down already at 4903 :(

Maybe some pump and dump scheme or some new investors due to latest governments news about accepting bitcoins in their own pension funds.

It could also be from Stellar joining new banks.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Pursuer on April 02, 2019, 05:35:21 AM
Edit 1: Current price $4800+ . According to my experience with BTC I think it's a pump and dump because such surge without reason usually indicates a pump and dump.

it looks like it when you only look at the current rise and ignore why price was even here in first place and what led to it staying there.

this rise is the inevitable result of price being extremely under the real value of bitcoin and being kept there with manipulation and out of fear. when price was manipulated and dumped below the real value at $6k a lot of investors got scared and have been saying out waiting for entrance. that wait ends when price breaks a resistance ($4.2k in this case) so they rush back in.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: thecodebear on April 02, 2019, 05:40:53 AM
The bottom-range resistance at around $4200 finally broke after 4.5 months. No news, just the bulls finally broke through the bottom range. I think we might now be in the first moments of the next bull run.

My guess is it settles in the mid-$4000s (never going back to the $3100-$4200 bottom range) and slowly starts to build from there. The long gradual bull market!


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Kakmakr on April 02, 2019, 05:41:02 AM
Bakkt just announced a physical delivery bitcoin futures contracts on their platform and investors knows when this goes live, institutional investors will create a huge demand for bitcoins, so they are stocking up on bitcoins now, before the price goes up when the institutional investors jump in.  ;)

I do not know if this will be the trigger for a Bull market, but it is a nice change from the boring bear market that we had for months now.  8)  <Just a pity that I sold some coins yesterday>  :P


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: killat on April 02, 2019, 05:48:12 AM
I think 5000$ is a psychological threshold right now. If we exceed it, we have good chances to remain above for the next couple of days.

Now if a good time to buy alts with discount if you're in Btc :)


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: crwth on April 02, 2019, 05:53:23 AM
It was really nerve-wracking. Got rekt with that pump, good thing I stopped there, even for a little. I'm a little bit curious if we could ever get back what I lost in the long run, but damn, it was really a big one. I agree with the others that it's a great time now to buy alts. Who would expect that it would go higher than expected? Shouldn't have followed my emotions too.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: kingplaya4 on April 02, 2019, 05:57:40 AM
Well, whatever the reason, if it is above 4500 24 hours from now, it should be a great long term turn. Too bad I converted a lot of my holdings to the one coin that is down today.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: daniel002 on April 02, 2019, 06:01:51 AM
Is it the SEC that approves 2 bitcoin etf's? Just search it in Google.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: alisafidel58 on April 02, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
Bakkt just announced a physical delivery bitcoin futures contracts on their platform and investors knows when this goes live, institutional investors will create a huge demand for bitcoins, so they are stocking up on bitcoins now, before the price goes up when the institutional investors jump in.  ;)

Read the news and there was a postponement in the launch of the project. If this was the case then what would it be in the future when the project is fully launched?


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Herbert2020 on April 02, 2019, 06:06:37 AM
you should have been surprised when bitcoin price fell down suddenly a couple of months ago and then stayed in a price range ($3k) which has been considered fake and manipulated not when it is correcting that mistake and going back up to price levels that make more sense.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: alevlaslo on April 02, 2019, 06:09:00 AM
punched important boundary 4200


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Jan_Vl on April 02, 2019, 06:16:03 AM
I think it is a pump and dump, there were no reasons for such movements and now the price is about 4650$. But still, I hope for a good sign that BTC is bullish again


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Noa_Amable on April 02, 2019, 06:22:44 AM
I am interested to know as well, can’t find information anywhere too. Have not seen such increase in price for long time and really hope some good news is coming up rather than just another pump and dump.

yes, sometimes it is really difficult to predict such hikes


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Caladonian on April 02, 2019, 06:24:14 AM
I am interested to know as well, can’t find information anywhere too. Have not seen such increase in price for long time and really hope some good news is coming up rather than just another pump and dump.

As of CMC its already 11.64% increase.I've been searching for news but even myself cant find any.This is why Bitcoin do really surprise us anytime but i dont expect too much yet 11%
is just a normal or typical day on crypto but for those who bought on 4100 price is the best time to short to secure out profits.
I agree, those people who manage to buy between 3800-4100$ are now in a good profitable position, they'll be able to enjoy this strong rise and take
the profits or if they have a good insight they can wait for some more pumped before selling it on their conditional value, personally I love seeing this
pumped as I also expect more new investors to come up and make a move and start to invest inside this market.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: jakelyson on April 02, 2019, 06:25:39 AM
Is it the SEC that approves 2 bitcoin etf's? Just search it in Google.

That is an April Fool's joke. There is no approved ETF yet. Or maybe they believed the joke and the price surge. hmmm

AFAIK, there is no basis for this price surge, so I am thinking it is just P&D. But it does not mean we can't take advantage of this great opportunity.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: thecodebear on April 02, 2019, 06:26:56 AM
I think it is a pump and dump, there were no reasons for such movements and now the price is about 4650$. But still, I hope for a good sign that BTC is bullish again


bitcoin doesn't really do pump and dumps. its too big. thats what little altcoins do. Sure it has bull and bear traps but thats different than a pump and dump.


There was indeed a reason for the movement, it had been pushing up on the top of the bottom-phase resistance recently which was around $4200. It was bound to either break down and continue in the 3100-4200 bottom range or break through the resistance and shoot up. It broke through and shot up. I'd say that was likely the first shot of the next long bull run.

Check out Oct 2015. Huge spike started the bull run. Price then settled at like half the top of the spike, and the bull run started as the price then slowly gained long term.

We'll probably see it settle in the mid-4000s, clearly above the bottom-range, and start rising slowly long term - the early phases of the next bull run.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: cryptjh on April 02, 2019, 06:28:07 AM
I just woke up also and see this beautiful nice green day, I can't really find any reason either why we're going up with more than 12% today, we were even above 5.000 overnight.
I'm happy I never thought about selling my Bitcoins, in the long crypto winter, and I'm not selling them now either.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: thecodebear on April 02, 2019, 06:34:57 AM
I just woke up also and see this beautiful nice green day, I can't really find any reason either why we're going up with more than 12% today, we were even above 5.000 overnight.
I'm happy I never thought about selling my Bitcoins, in the long crypto winter, and I'm not selling them now either.


Smart.

This is probably the start of the bull run, which means if you're holding for the bull run peak no need to think about selling for a couple more years! I figure there's at least two year before I even need to consider selling any crypto. Just enjoy the ride up!


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: equator on April 02, 2019, 06:40:28 AM
It was really surprising when i saw that the market is moved up more then 10% and then in this thread i am seeing that the news of BAKKT testing their project can also be the news for this rise. But short term traders have started to take profit, hope that the price wont go back to the low price.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: alevlaslo on April 02, 2019, 06:48:28 AM
I just woke up also and see this beautiful nice green day, I can't really find any reason either why we're going up with more than 12% today, we were even above 5.000 overnight.
I'm happy I never thought about selling my Bitcoins, in the long crypto winter, and I'm not selling them now either.

I wrote the reason: the penetration of an important level of 4200, traders waiting for the fall began to buy because the punched 4200

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006631.msg50419077#msg50419077



Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: thecodebear on April 02, 2019, 06:53:07 AM
I just woke up also and see this beautiful nice green day, I can't really find any reason either why we're going up with more than 12% today, we were even above 5.000 overnight.
I'm happy I never thought about selling my Bitcoins, in the long crypto winter, and I'm not selling them now either.

I wrote the reason: the penetration of an important level of 4200, traders waiting for the fall began to buy because the punched 4200




Yeah, and now all the people who were waiting for 3100 again, or 2000s, or 1000s or whatever no its not gonna happen, so they'll all start buying in once they see the price hold in the 4000s above the top of the bottom. Man, I wasn't expecting the bull run to come for at least a few more months, but the past few days and started thinking we might see something like this now, and we did! Looks like 2019 is gonna be a good year for the price. My expectations for end of the year price just got upgraded from $7k to $10k with the bull run starting so early!


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: lyks15 on April 02, 2019, 07:20:54 AM
I think this not pump and dump scheme. I think this an effect of the rise of bitcoin again. Because all we see that bitcoin are now become more popular even the artist and singer are now dealing and investing in bitcoin industry so I do not wonder why it is happened because many are now already encouraged in investing bitcoin.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: alevlaslo on April 02, 2019, 07:50:05 AM
next resistance at 5700



https://www.tradingview.com/x/8WLJY59K/



Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: MakeMoneyBtc on April 02, 2019, 07:56:20 AM
Just woke up this morning and as usual I checked to see whats going on with the bitcoin market and for my surprise I saw it is up to 4800& now dropped to 46000$.Don't know if this is some kind of a pump and dump scheme but I more than like what I see. Hope it can stay here and go even more up in the near future


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: btc_angela on April 02, 2019, 08:01:36 AM
punched important boundary 4200

Actually two important mental barriers, $4200 and $4500. So obviously the former has been punched but we need to look at the later, we need to see if we can hold that price, as the market has corrected itself to $46++. But as I have said in the previous thread, we need to see if the price can hold at least up this weekend and see how it goes for the next coming weeks.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: aetherdan on April 02, 2019, 08:03:45 AM
I hate seeing technical analysis on things like crypto. Technical analysis was derived form the price movements based on the actions of fundamental analysis, which really doesn't apply to a virtual product that doesn't have any measurable value.

It's all just speculation, and if you are one of the few who genuinely know why it's pumped, you probably aren't going to share it on this forum.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: raidarksword on April 02, 2019, 08:06:59 AM
Looks like bull trap to me for this sudden price uptrend and considering there are no news about on how it pumped to $5000 but maybe just a preview to semi bull runs incoming hopefully. Hoping greater news would be fit to make it reasonable during this surges soon.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: ribowo76 on April 02, 2019, 09:01:42 AM
Whatever the cause, it feels great to see the increase in the price of bitcoin and altcoin in recent days. And I believe that this is only the beginning. I think it's time, the bitcoin market is recovering


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: ahmadinejad93 on April 02, 2019, 09:25:43 AM
Today, Tuesday (2/4/2019), the price of this digital currency suddenly rises much higher. One of them is a Bitcoin whose price rises high. to date, the price of Bitcoin has reached US $ 4,807 / coin.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: niisarearning on April 02, 2019, 09:49:35 AM
Even i am searching for genuine reason . I am reading lots of news fianl i end up here . Hope it will not just pump and dump . Even i am investor in traditional market after huge bear run about more than 6 months . Now market recovering . I think after tax calculation and financial year end .People started to invest it seems.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Kemarit on April 02, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
Is it the SEC that approves 2 bitcoin etf's? Just search it in Google.

That is an April Fool's joke. There is no approved ETF yet. Or maybe they believed the joke and the price surge. hmmm

AFAIK, there is no basis for this price surge, so I am thinking it is just P&D. But it does not mean we can't take advantage of this great opportunity.

On the contrary, SEC days ago has has delayed it's decision on the 2 Bitcoin ETF's proposal in their pipeline and this is the official statement:

1. CBoE - (https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/cboebzx/2019/34-85475.pdf)
2. NYSE - (https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2019/34-85461.pdf)

I created a thread hours ago before the actual pump here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5127105.0). It's about the Bakkt Bitcoin future offerings update. But I'm not sure if it's the cause of the good spike today, more than 10%? Just like in the previous bull-run? LOL.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: lablab03 on April 02, 2019, 11:29:02 AM
I'm very curious also why this is happening right now wherein without any specific reason that popping up around the internet.  I have doubts maybe this is a sudden bump again by whale's and will ended up again on manipulation ? because this high jump is very rare to happen on this market to be honest.wherein since bear season and many reason occur in this year.  So very suspicious scenario for me.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Ipwich on April 02, 2019, 11:39:58 AM
Is it the SEC that approves 2 bitcoin etf's? Just search it in Google.

I also read an article about that, but I think it was just an April fools joke.
If it's ETF approval, it would take higher than the current price now.



I don't see any significant news that would pump this hard, and I like that as there was no hype, I guess the market are due for this a long time already.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: romero121 on April 02, 2019, 12:41:47 PM
This growth is predicted to happen with the previous price pumping that crossed $4200, but it didn't gained much resistance for a forward price push. Now the price above $4200 is quite strong with good resistance. In specific bitcoin has increased and the same has led to the increase of the top altcoins and the other altcoins that are being developed following the top altcoins in the market.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: MakeMoneyBtc on April 02, 2019, 03:09:32 PM
The price went up to 5000$ today and I don't if that's a good or bad since since this definitely looks like a pump by whales since I don't think I've ever seen this much growth in such a small time. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's going to happen in the next days/weeks because the price could go up even higher or go down to 4000$


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: fabiorem on April 02, 2019, 03:10:32 PM
The whales are buying back.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Adriano2010 on April 02, 2019, 04:05:32 PM
Maybe yes, the whales buy now how much they can at this price and will wait for a next rotund to buy again more and more, and this can cause who know a bull run sooner than expected.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: kiansantan on April 02, 2019, 04:12:35 PM
I think this is indeed very surprising. Value enhancements that are far beyond the predictions of crypto experts. I think this is indeed a surprise at the beginning of the month. This increase is a big question mark for traders. And excitement is anxious. Advantage or is this the beginning of a trap.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on April 02, 2019, 04:18:46 PM
The rise in the price of bitcoin could be as a result of more demand. If more people in the world begin to use bitcoin, its value would increase.
I highly doubt that's the reason.  The average person still has no use for a fiat alternative and won't until fiat currencies crash all over the world--and if that happens, there probably won't be internet or electricity anyway.

Though I'm not a big fan of finding reasons for market movements (I think it's futile unless there's an obvious cause), I bet it was one or two really large players pumping a lot of money into bitcoin very quickly that pushed the price up this much.  And what probably helped was a bunch of smaller investors who saw the moon rocket starting to take off and decided to jump on board.  That's usually what happens when the price starts to increase. 

If this keeps up, pretty soon we'll start seeing threads about fools mortgaging their houses to buy bitcoin, people selling their kids' toys, and all the other bull market euphoria craziness that comes along with it.  Ah, the good ol' days.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: maxreish on April 03, 2019, 01:52:22 AM
It was really surprising to see the green candle. Many investors are really happy and currently enjoying  this explosive price spike of bitcoin. I just looked up the market at $4,700 and in an hour it already hit $5,000.
Whatever the possible reasons of the price spike, I am so grateful with that.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: Idrisu on April 03, 2019, 08:51:23 AM
I am interested to know as well, can’t find information anywhere too. Have not seen such increase in price for long time and really hope some good news is coming up rather than just another pump and dump.
Many traders were awaiting a breakout in the cryptocurrencies pricing from the channel that it was pushed to in December.  I think we are going to have another bullish trend when bitcoin will cross $5500 trading area.  It is very important we recognized the infect of technical indicators in cryptocurrencies as the only people that really make money from yesterday pump was the technical traders.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: $anounimus$ on April 03, 2019, 02:32:13 PM
It was really surprising to see the green candle. Many investors are really happy and currently enjoying  this explosive price spike of bitcoin. I just looked up the market at $4,700 and in an hour it already hit $5,000.
Whatever the possible reasons of the price spike, I am so grateful with that.
Indeed, some bitcoin price increases yesterday made many traders like it and they took advantage of such moments to sell the bitcoins they have in order to benefit from what they have bought, now take advantage of moments like this to sell and profit.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: radjie on April 03, 2019, 03:42:08 PM
The price went up to 5000$ today and I don't if that's a good or bad since since this definitely looks like a pump by whales since I don't think I've ever seen this much growth in such a small time. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's going to happen in the next days/weeks because the price could go up even higher or go down to 4000$
there is no definite news about price increases in the near future, let's look at one week later price movements will continue to increase or vice versa, because many people conclude that price increases are caused by whales that can deliberately pump them.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: el kaka22 on April 03, 2019, 05:06:58 PM
The price has been stuck between two trends for too long, there are traders who are depending on the price movements to make money and earn a living which means they need to see bitcoin move up and down all the time.

Now, that for months we have been moving between the same prices even at higher rate of 3.2 thousand dollars and 4.2 thousand dollars they were capable of making money, however now that people are not willing to sell bitcoin for too long they have realized that the price must go up in order to keep that up and down motion or even just up motion to make money for those traders which includes all the whales. What we have seen in the past 48 hours has been the reflection of sellers not willing to sell too low and traders who want to see some movements.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: bitgolden on April 03, 2019, 06:17:28 PM
I did not even get to know on time too so I can catch the pump at the highest price till I got notified by my crypto to fiat exchange through my email, I virtually screamed when I saw it because the spike was too fast and the price difference within such short time was quite high, I also assumed it could be actions of Pump and Dump but as we can see, no much price drop for now and I hope it continues this way, I have actually read a prediction somewhere too where an analyst strongly predicted that the price of BTC would hit $5000 first week of April but didn’t pay much attention to this because of too many predictions in the market, so I am wondering what who would have seen that made him predict almost accurately.


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: DeathAngel on April 03, 2019, 06:25:37 PM
There are a few guarantees in life -

DEATH
TAXES
BITCOIN BULL RUNS


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: davinchi on April 04, 2019, 04:53:03 PM
It was really surprising to see the green candle. Many investors are really happy and currently enjoying  this explosive price spike of bitcoin. I just looked up the market at $4,700 and in an hour it already hit $5,000.
Whatever the possible reasons of the price spike, I am so grateful with that.
We still have very large portion of the whole world that are yet to get the gist about blockchain technology and the benefit of it through cryptocurrency, so I knew a time will come when certain aware will be created that may lead to sudden people coming in to invest, I am sure something in probably a particular region created awareness, that push a mass number of people to adopt, which will really be a good thing if my guess was right because I wouldn’t want to hear that this spike was caused by whales, and like you said, whatever it is, it good it created happy moment once again for most investors, and I do hope we enjoy it while it last.

There are a few guarantees in life -

DEATH
TAXES
BITCOIN BULL RUNS
You mean just due to the reason of bitcoin's potential, we got those rally ? Then why not in last 15 months ? I mean what had happened to those potential in those periods ?


Title: Re: Whats with the sudden surge ?
Post by: gabmen on April 06, 2019, 01:52:03 PM
The price went up to 5000$ today and I don't if that's a good or bad since since this definitely looks like a pump by whales since I don't think I've ever seen this much growth in such a small time. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's going to happen in the next days/weeks because the price could go up even higher or go down to 4000$
there is no definite news about price increases in the near future, let's look at one week later price movements will continue to increase or vice versa, because many people conclude that price increases are caused by whales that can deliberately pump them.

Well it's been like that for a couple of days now and there seems to be a strong support just around the 4.9k area. You can't count out whales playing with us and it's only been days but we've been moving in a positive way generally.