Bitcoin Forum

Hi everyone,

I've read lots of articles explaining that one of the major reasons of the run to $20,000 back in 2017 was the money machine printer known as Tether (USDT). What do you think it will happen this time regarding this?

I ask based on tweets like this:

https://twitter.com/Stami_/status/1115217112262483969

Thanks!

What do you mean by USDT as 'money printing machine?' For all I know, the main catalyst of the 2017 bull run was credit cards being used to purchase bitcoin and the futures market, and USDT being there just to, well, be a stablecoin and nothing more. Right now, Tether is in hot waters for not actually stating or showing a proof that they indeed have that much money to match any issued USDT in the open, yet they are still continuing to do what they always do. Sooner or later, Tether will be involved in some form of 'hack' that could potentially hurt millions of dollars of money converted into them in the meantime.

Check this:

https://news.bitcoin.com/new-report-blames-tether-for-bitcoins-bull-run/

There was an investigation about tether during 2017 bull run. They provide an incredibly high emission of USDT just before all major pumps, which was quite suspicious. Also, their market cap was unrealistically high. Anyway Tether had its role in previous bull run.

Hopefully nothing. Market have to be healthy in order to get some stable growth that won't be lost in one moment.

I don't believe that tether is one of the reasons as to why bitcoin gain that price of $20,000. Tether was just in the right place at the right time when the bull run came out. For all I know, the reason was there were lots of demand for the coin which escalated a world wild phenomenon and hit its ATH.

I partly agree with your point of credit card being the major reason for the 2017 bullrun, because credit card is the world most popular financial institutions and at that it acceptability and access to bitcoin hard I great positive influence on the market. To that point should we now say this recent rise above $5000 is as a result of PayPal involvement in bitcoin?

we can only speculate as to if Tether was behind the huge bull run of 2017 or not
but our mini-bullrun from 4.000 to 5.200 $ happened without any noticeable reason or news preceding it
it just happened as some investor(s) decided to buy copious amounts of coins across several exchanges
the reasons for the new bullrun could be numerous including ETF rumours , cryptocurrency or ICO rules changed in a particular country ( or group of countries) and many other things can happen in a short period of time to have the price spike
I don't think we will be getting 20.000$ range any time soon , but the return to 6500$ ish levels are very possible

That could have been possible because Tether is one such currency whose daily trading volume often crosses its market cap. Tether can be literally used to pump any currency and I am sure many people are exploiting this opportunity. However, we are well passed 2017 now and let's focus on the present!

A jump from 4000 USD to 5200 USD is definitely welcoming to a lot of crypto people as it gives us hope. However, I doubt any manjor impact is happening due to Tether. Rather, a more credible reason may be the below one,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crypto-currencies-idUSKCN1RE0JY

But for me, it is more important for the price to hold up at this level rather than reaching new high!

Bitcoin is gaining momentum for the next bull run which this time will be in real greenbacks.

The next bull run is THE bull run, in U$ cash.

The Fed keeps printing dollars, China keeps printing Yuan, Europe keeps printing euros. They've printed U$ 300 trillion in debt that nobody's gona pay.

The next banker-created crash will make Bitcoin into digital gold.

As many other said previously, I dont think the past bull run was a power of Tether. Probably it gave an effect but not that much, so I believe Tether wont give significant effect to the next bull run which is still unpredictable when it will come.

The bull run back in 2017 was as a result of the credit card company involvement into bitcoin and not the Tether(USDT) that brought the bull run. We all know that; after all the transactions on exchanges it bores down to USDT conversion. The recent rise in bitcoin price could be attributed to traders who buy and sell. The increase in the volume clearly show that there is more demand which if continue the bull run will fully come to play.

tether is not the only stablecoin is only one of many if during the next bull market you are looking for a strategy to exit safely from the world of crypto but not in fiat there are many other options...

It might be one of the reasons why the bull-run occurred last time. There might be several reasons behind it, most likely the reason why the market was pumped last time was due to hype, since the market grew multiple times on the recent run, everyone was not sure when will it stop, so people kept on stacking their bitcoin which caused the massive demand on it. People kept buying and selling, and once they see a positive movement on the market, they will buy back and wait for another rise.

I don't think Tether contributed that much to the last bull run, I think it was more of a combination of several events occuring at the same time: dumb money pouring tons and tons of capital into the btc ecosystem, financial instituions entering the market, bitcoin going mainstream which triggered a gigantic fomo buying wave from the masses that thought bitcoin was a "get rick quick" sheme, etc, etc.

Let's not give Tether that much importance...The next bull run will come, with or without Tether.

That is a plausible explanation, but that in no way means that is the exact reason behind the 2017 bull run. So many factors contributed to this insane rally and the Tether reason provided by op could actually be one of those factors.

I am simply happy with the current mini bull run going on in the cryptocurrency market which I hope will continue for a long period of time.

Well, as you rightly point out, Tether have refused to allow an independent audit, and therefore there is no proof that they hold the assets to back up the value of Tether as being 1 USDT = 1 USD as they claim. They recently quietly changed their Terms and Conditions to state that USDT was backed up by a variety of assets and asset classes, and not just USD like they previously claimed. Given this, they could quite easily create $100 million or so USDT out of thin air, use it to buy BTC, and then they can claim that USDT is backed up by BTC.

Tether could well be essentially printing money, and since they continue to refuse an audit, there is no proof to the contrary.

you should never believe everything you read on the internet, specially on twitter and some of these cryptocurrency focused news sites, they publish any crap they can and 90% of things you read online is pure nonsense including this thing about Tether. basically they said all the bitcoin price rise was because of Tether which doesn't even make sense because their logic is that whenever new Tether was printed price went up but new Tether has been printing all through 2018 too while bitcoin was dropping...

I differ from you in your opinion that Tether were the only driving force behind the 2017 bullrun. The emergence of ICOs had a lot to do with the big bullrun in 2017 and when they started to ban Crypto currency on popular social media, it all went back to normal.

We are now seeing a more regulated form of ICOs with the emergence of Initial Exchange Offerings (IEO) and this might trigger the start of the next bullrun, but this time it might be a bit slower than with ICOs, because the IEO process is more regulated and structured.  :P  <Proper KYC requirements and checking are done for the approval of these IEOs>  ;)

If Tether was really used to manipulate the market (like what some reports suggest) then the next bull run should be more mature. I think even if Tether dead at that point, there's nothing to be afraid of as people can still use fiat or something similar to buy Bitcoin, which in turn still increase the price. As to what extent the next bull run will be, I can only think that it should at least touch the previous ATH.

I don't think that bitcoin goes to $ 20,000 due to USDT, 2017 bitcoin has gone up that far in my opinion because it supports good news from credit cards.

Tether was one of the most important actors in the previous season. However, this is not enough to explain the whole walk of bulls. There were many reasons for futures, FOMO and more.

There are dozens of stable coins in the market today. I'm sure we'd be over 100K right now, if Tether had caused it alone. So don't too much from Tether. Bitcoin halving is coming. 2020 May, we will experience new halving. It is more important then Tether.

There are many stablecoins now, so they will push btc up again. But of course USD equivalents are not the main power, as that's the cycle power that drives assets down and up.

I guess there's something you don't understand. Tether can make things easier on the road to bull rise, but it cannot be the only reason for bull rise.

Today there isn't just one but many stablecoins, so there is plenty of fiat ready to be dumped into the market once traders sense the bull market is back. There is also increased institutional investment. Given how small the total market cap of cryptos is, it won't take much to pump this market past its all-time highs.

back in 2013 it was "the willy bot". then in 2017 it was "the tether printer". same shit, different day!

these conspiracy theories about price pumping are irrelevant. at best they could only ever catalyze latent bullishness that would have bubbled up eventually anyway. they could never sustain a pump for the better part of a year, distributed across global spot and OTC markets! what matters is that real people were paying bubble prices for sustained periods of time. and more than that, price never returned to pre-2013 and pre-2017 levels.

the people who blame tether for the 2017 bubble are mostly nocoiners who are looking for any reason to explain away the bullishness of the bitcoin market. after 10 years of bull, they're still trying. :)

Bitcoin (https://coincodex.com/crypto/bitcoin/)'s price trend still remains bullish, despite we could experience some small drops in the days to come.

https://coincodex.com/article/3374/bitcoin-ethereum-ripple-price-analysis-xrp-lags-behind-crypto-market-as-btc-and-eth-hit-new-2019-highs/

I was closely watching market while 2017 bull run happened towards 20000$ . Th emain reason was BCH hardfork success and bitcoin jolders got free BCH it had value more than 1000$ . Then after 2 forks announces one is BTG and another one is segwit2x . People started to invest on this heavily because they will get free 2 coins . It was the actual market hype once bitcoin reached 10000$ it became talk of the town . Rest we seen . Whales took their profit and disappeared . Innocent and greedy people were trapped.

this topic has  been bouncing around in my head during the last  week, why do the articles love to ascribe to stablecoin' influence.
I read about this quite detailed report, but even researchers aren't sure that there is a correlation between BTC changes and USDT. it certainly gained its place among crypto, cause traders use it a lot, but nothing else.
however could be connection between altcoins (market full of them now!) and continuing  the bear market and I wish I would find nice report about it.

I think that's not the main reason why bitcoin was all time high 20k.
There are much bigger reason and one of the because lending ICO with super ROI and ended scam, and that's why the price dropped so much also

They are not the reasons why the price of bitcoin hits almost $20k in 2017.

There are a lot of positive news like Japan entering the picture and the main catalyst, CBoE and CME offering bitcoin future contracts, that really push the price because everyone jump on the hype eventhough the market is already on a bubble and waiting to be burst.

Tether has nothing to do with it, probably this is just another FUD to confused people specially noobs investors.

I don't think it's because of the ICO exploding that makes bitcoin increase higher. We are only guessing with what happens in 2017, and we don't know what exactly was happening. There are many speculations about the rise of bitcoin in 2017 and the next bull run, and I guess that no one will know what the main reason for the surge of cryptocurrency in the future is. Let's enjoy the moment in the next bull run and take your profit as much as you can.

According to some research I did , I saw that the 2017 bull run wan majorly anchored by credit card , bitcoin fork and then maybe the presence of USDT. The bull run that everyone is expecting will come in a new dimension and be influence by different factors like the ETF news, major countries legalizing bitcoin and new Site Ayo of conducting initial coin offering(ICO).

Indeed we can not over look the place of events in the price of bitcoin, but the fact still remains that events can only influence the market when there is an enabling environment that is people and businesses ready to accept bitcoin and at this time there are more events and high number of business ready to accept bitcoin so I will say in no time from now the next bull run will be here again.

..i don't think that tether plays a major part in the bull run of Bitcoin price in the year 2017..it is just so happen that the demand on Bitcoin arises much that time so many people invested and buy Bitcoins for there is a continous price hike,,although the use of tether gives an effect on Bitcoins bull run,,because some investors uses credit cards to purchase btc..if sooner or later,,when there is a big demand on Bitcoin and many would again invest and but Bitcoi,,then the possible bull run on the following days will occur again..

Atleast theres a more positive reply from this tether thread lol

I believe that bitcoin can mooning without tethers interventions as we need are investors ,i mean Real investors that will trust crypto all the way and not just to profit and leave

That’s another answer mate,those damn scammers brings this market to the lowest and that must be stopped

I agree with you, but if we look from the objective point of view, people who let emotions rule them shouldn't trade. Greed kills trading.

LOL. Did you actually read that news? It was old, the author penned it in June 2018. This article is posted to debunked the previous related news in February 2018 Study Finds Little Correlation Between Tether Printing and Bitcoin's Price (https://news.bitcoin.com/study-finds-little-correlation-between-tether-printing-and-bitcoins-price/). So there's a lot of arguments from both side, but based on the sentiments of this community, I see a consensus that Tether doesn't have that huge power or influence in the price movement of Bitcoin.

According to the analysis published by the New York Times, June 13, 2018, a study blamed Tether who was involved in manipulating Bitcoin prices in 2017.
Half of the increase in Bitcoin prices in December 2017, when the cryptocurrency reached a high of $ 20,000. Explicitly because of Tether's actions. The researchers used an algorithm to analyze blockchain data. They found that buying with Tether was given a deadline after the market slumped and resulted in a considerable increase in the price of Bitcoin.

Not that I'm a fan of Tether, but in recent years I have heard so many rumours on it, and it still works. It seemed to me it was mostly FUD. ???

Demand would make the market on bull and there will be no any other help from tether just like what happened 2017. Institutional money will come in and/or they're already in the market taking their own stash, building their own portfolio's and waiting now for the game. The market would usually grow as it is and bitcoin will eventually surpass the high's that we have reached last time. Money will flow in and it's all due that we're near to halving.

Anyway, stable coins are needed, but the question is whether it will be a Tether or not. So far, it simply has no competitors with its liquidity and giant volume, while algorithmic stable coins haven't shown great results.

It is surprising that the USDT is still alive. Well, at least the SEC is watching, the feeling that the Tether team should behave more or less legally, otherwise there is a risk to get in jail. ;D

Tether at this point is more like loch ness monster, there maybe there but it is made bigger than it really is. the fact is, Tether has become a big part of the trading community specially among altcoin traders who want to escape the big altcion dumps but in the end bitcoin has never depended on it and more importunately its price rises so far had nothing to do with it.

The tether controversy and  allegations were unproven. It either true or it was used as cover for the real manipulators.
Tether existed before that 2017 pump without problems.
The market need not to move so fast this time.

How can you say that ?  Cant you see the price is now increasing , this can be a sign bull run . and its also too early to tell because we are still starting the year  .  wait till we reach the month of october and up .

 that months are said to be the make or break of the cryptos  but im pretty sure that the value will be the same again as what we experience before on the year 2017  . how much more next year when there will be a said halving   .

Tether on the other hand is only a stable coin  .  its usefull but the price of bitcoin and bull run will not depend on it 

Unproven maybe, but very strongly implied, and Tether have done nothing to try to prove the claims incorrect.

There have been a number of shady activities which strongly suggest that Tether do not have the USD backing that they claim. They released a very vaguely worded letter from an unknown bank residing in a tax haven saying they have a "portfolio cash value" equal to USDT. Portfolio cash value means any asset when sold for cash. They also quietly dropped the 1 USDT = 1 USD statement from their terms and conditions, and replaced it with a similarly vague statement about being backed up by a variety of assets. They could print 100 million USDT from thin air, use it to buy bitcoin, and then claim the USDT is fully backed up.

They could quite simply submit to a full audit any time they like (or at any point over the last 18 months since these allegations started), and the whole thing would immediately be done with. The only reason they have for continuing to refuse an audit is if they have something to hide.

Exactly. Tether FUD is used to pump and dump the price. But people no longer react much to this.

In as much that the market value of Bitcoin within the past two months has seen a massive increase in its market price does not strongly predict that Bitcoin will soon hit the $20k value like in 2017. And this time around I don't really think USDT (Tether) has an influence on the increase in the market price of Bitcoin. 

A number of shady activities? You mean the rumors that the media kept talking about, bribed by their competitors?

I think the major reason of bitcoin increasing price now is the bitcoin market equilibrium that reached and happened for few months ago. Now this is the time for the increasing demand that made by adoption that still growing make the price move up. I don't think that other altcoins such as tether or etc are become the reason of this bitcoin increasing price.

USD Token is only a stable coin, not will impacted on Bitcoin. the use of USDT  is for make trader easy to cash out in digital money without Withdrawing to the Bank Account.

So what tether got yo do with the bullrun?lol USDT is not the reason why we reached the 20,000$ in December 2017 so don't dream that without this we can't reach ths top again

We will go to the highest value in right time and not just by hype so be ready because we are closer there

It's not a rumor that they kept changing their terms and conditions, downgrading what they claimed Tether was backed up with. It's also not a rumor anymore that there is currently a $850 million shortfall in Tether's reserves - that is a fact accepted even by Tether themselves.

If these were all rumors being paid for by their competitors, then why would Tether repeatedly refuse to allow an independent audit. They could have settle the entire thing overnight. The reason they didn't is because they never had the funds they claimed to have, which they have finally admitted.

I still don't believe it. Me and my friends have never had any problems with tether. And often all the attacks of the media in the end turned out to be rumors.

Well then you aren't paying attention. Tether's General Counsel, Stuart Hoegner, as well as other lawyers representing Tether, have published multiple documents stating quite clearly that Tether is not backed up 1-to-1 with USD as they claimed.

https://www.scribd.com/document/408190972/Stuart-Hoegner-Affidavit-4-30

https://www.scribd.com/document/408190969/Zoe-Phillips-Filing-4-30

You've never had a problem with Tether because that's how scams work; everything works fine until suddenly it doesn't. It's in their best interests to make everything work normally for as long as possible, to lure in as many people as possible, and to maximize their profits when they do suddenly declare themselves insolvent, exit scam, disappear, or whatever.

Bitfinex redeems USDT for USD, which can be used to buy cryptocurrencies on its exchange. So, when Tether is redeemed this way, it can drive prices upwards. I believe this is the mechanism the CFTC has been looking into regarding its recent investigation into Bitfinex and Tether.

I think Tether and printer machines have not had a big influence on the bullish market today and in 2017.  a few days ago Tether made a good contribution to Bitcoin.  but the biggest element that makes BTC bullish is the wgale and investors who begin to trust BTC and the crypto world again.

Based on my experience also i witnessed the bull run . It was initially started because of BCH fork success were people got 400$-1000$ worth of Coin by simply holding Bitcoin in wallet . Soon after Segwit2x or B3x and BTG fork announce people started to grab bitcoin for getting free coin after fork . Were Segwit2x expected to major change in crypto space . Once it cross 10000$ mark . It took momentum became talk of town reached 20 K in No time . If USDT was the reason now more stable coins are out there If your point is true then this time it will hit even harder.

It is, the media and not only they falsely accuse Tether in many ways. A recent case with ny ag only proves their innocence and honesty.

Did you read my last reply to you above? The accusations aren't false because Tether have confirmed them. They have admitted multiple times via multiple lawyers and their general counsel that they lied about every USDT token being backed up 1-to-1 with USD. If everyone wanted to turn their Tether back in to USD, they wouldn't be able to and Tether would collapse. Just because you haven't had a problem with Tether yet doesn't mean anything.

I think the USDT just became popular during the bear market and not bullish. When thousands of people tried to take profits in the dollar but did not withdraw money from the exchanges in the hope that growth would soon begin again. Then it simply became popular among traders who actively traded it in relation to other cryptocurrencies. And the growth of cryptocurrency to the USDT in general has nothing to do. In any case, I personally do not see any connection.

I too have the same belief that there is no relation with USDT on the bull market. Recently when the price of bitcoin was to make a big step forward there was a big issue with Bitfinex and tether. If USDT was to make some impact on the growth, by that time there shouldn't be any growth with bitcoin. In reality the forward marching happens unlike the negative things happening all around.

I do not think that tether can somehow affect bitcoin, it is not powerful enough for this. In addition, btc is the largest coin on the market and I doubt that anything at all can greatly affect it.

Tether is a powerful token and it does affect the values of bitcoin and other cryptos because investors and traders do also buy and sell stable coins such as tether on a regular basis so that they can secure their profit from the hazards of unstability  .

Not all can affect bitcoin . Your right ,bitcoin is the largest coin and bitcoin is the one that can affect other coins the most  .

Bull run will always happen with or without the help of stable coins  , that is for sure .

Future market was a major factor in the bull as well as tether was instrumental in pumping the price so high, during 2017 there were a lot of tether being created without any valid proof on that they are fully backed by dollars, if there is any market downfall then tether will be the main reason for that and i feel that something big is coming that could wipe the market by a big margin. Credit card usage were there, but that was not the main reason for the big rally, it was minuscule when compared to the amount of tether being created during that time.