Bitcoin Forum

I don't know if you use Bitcoin debit cards but to my opinion there is serious lack of their providers in the market. In one moment we had a flood of such cards that appeared (Xapo, Advcash, Mistertango, Wirex) and when Visa pulled back their services many gave up permanently.
Now I think that only Wirex has a properly working card.

To my opinion there are many users interested in crypto debit cards services but still there are no new providers appearing at the market. What do you think that is reason for that and will that change in the future?

Your observation is correct to some extent because there are some debit cards that will allow you to deposit funds using btc but it shall immediately be converted to USD or any fiat of the country where there bank is located.

We can not have bitcoin debit card because bitcoin value is dynamic and not static like fiats.

The best we can have is bitcoin debit cards that operates like a wallet whose holders will have to spend based on the current btc exchnage rates

Coinbase have recently announced they are releasing a card in the UK, so I would expect that to expand to other countries soon enough. As with everything to do with Coinbase, the fees are ridiculous and I'll be staying well away from it, but at a minimum I would expect it to be a reliable card to use, as long as you don't mind spending 2.5% or more as a fee on every transaction - https://support.coinbase.com/customer/portal/articles/2969910-coinbase-card-faq.

My biggest hatred of all these existing bitcoin cards is the amount of KYC required to be allowed to own and use one. I want to use bitcoin to move away from some company having a complete log of everything I spend and what I spend it on, like they currently do with fiat debit and credit cards. If someone released a truly private bitcoin debit card, I would probably accept a couple of percent in fees as a price to use it.

I'm guessing it's due to Bitcoin's legality and regulation. Every country has its own regulation and most of them aren't even crypto friendly. Will that change in the future? Once governments have solid rules about crypto I'm sure a lot of vendors will start issuing crypto debit card again. But that step isn't going to happen soon, I predict. It'll take more years. Bitcoin is already 10 years old and most govts still don't have a set of fixed regulation for cryptocurrency.

I guess that regulation is one of the keys to solve this. Legal obligations are getting more strict for everyone involved in financial industry and cryptocurrencies are especially sensitive. Still I hope the situation will improve soon because I would really like to see more crypto debit card providers. For me that is one of the services that is really convenient and enables me to spend Bitcoin in real world very easy and without issues.

In my opinion, crypto-sector is competing with the traditional financial sector. So, the growing interest in cryptocurrencies weakens the interest in the traditional financial sector. Thus, the institutions are trying everything to prevent this rise. On the other hand, cryptocurrencies are still popular for money laundering and the laws are in this regard still lax. It would be an outrage if a company is being associated with money laundering. Of course, there are companies like Western Union where money laundering may occur but they have some guidelines to follow to prevent such cases. A solution to that is setting clear laws for the debit cards or having more vendors who accept cryptocurrencies.

It isn't really possible to launch a BTC card full anonymous and the reason is quite simple. You have to use Visa/Mastercard/Amex/Discover/... and these companies won't work with you if you can't follow their guidelines. Otherwise, you will have to create a new credit card company (compatible with terminals and ATMs) and good luck with that.

Too many of the previous providers were relying only on upon Wavecrest and they didn't think about alternatives while their whole business was dependent from WC. The new trend should be to use a truly BaaS but almost no company seems interested. Only Bitwala so far with its partnership with SolarBank.

No cryto debit card is ever actually handled by a crypto company. They're all operated by third party Visa issuers. The reason there used to be so many is that almost all of them were issued by the same company who glued a different label on each one.

This is what happened to that company - https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/12/10/1544439535000/Gibraltar-slaps--250k-fine-on-WaveCrest--CEO-stands-down-/

The handful of issuers that are trickling back will be much, much more interested in staying in Visa's good books than some crypto company. It's always going to be at their mercy. Visa/Mastercard will always be the gatekeepers of that area no matter what.

It's convenient for me as otherwise I might risk my bank shutting me down but I don't really see much of a future for them.

Oh, I fully understand that, which is why any card which has offered semi-anonymous usage rapidly shut down (at least the ones I was aware of did). I can't see it ever happening for the reasons you state - Mastercard and Visa call all the shots at the moment, and they would never release a card without requiring extensive KYC. It will be an much easier feat to convince retailers to accept crypto, either directly or via a processor like BitPay, than it will be to launch an anonymous debit card.

I don't think the legacy financial sector is getting weaker. Exchanges need bank accounts, providers of crypto related debit cards need bank accounts, payment processors need bank accounts, etc.

That to me doesn't seem like the legacy financial sector getting weaker at all. Crypto depends on banks accounts more so than people are comfortable admitting. Maybe this will change one day, but that day is faaaaar away.

I'm not sure if you have been following the progress the banking sector has been going through, but I can pay for things instantly, for free and that 24/7. That's extremely bullish for banks, less so for crypto.

Not just free; I can earn money on my credit card purchases, 3% for some things. That's why I don't think there will ever be a huge demand for crypto debit cards which generally charge a 2-3% fee on each transaction. That's a spread of 6%, which is not insignificant. I'd happily forgo my 2-3% cashback on credit cards to be able to spend directly using bitcoin, but I'm always going to convert bitcoin to fiat myself for zero or negligible fees and then spend that fiat via credit card, before I will ever use a bitcoin debit card at such high fees.

I dislike all the data the credit card company collect about you, but you have the exact same problem (if not worse, since they can also collect your bitcoin addresses) using a bitcoin debit card.

I never use such card, simply did not have the need for it, and I have few local exchanges in my country where I can very easy buy / sell crypto without too much complication (no KYC). As others pointed out it is all about how card providers set rules of the game, and it is also how those who regulate them are setting rules.

I would like to see (as many others), more merchants who will accept crypto, even if they use intermediaries like BitPay. But in that case users of cryptocurrency would be less dependent on card providers like Visa / Masterdcard to convert crypto in fiat.

I know that Wirex is most used recenty, is someone using this card maybe? https://paycent.com/

You're thinking like a first worlder, and probably a European. In the USA banking is still a pathetic stone age joke.

If you're outside anywhere developed then banking itself, or banking that plugs in to the rest of the world, is often a wistful dream. That's why a debit card is so appealing to so many people. The people on here who ask about it the most often usually don't have many other useful options.

bitwala has started their "full blockchain banking" services some weeks ago. i can't tell you anything about, because i haven't registered yet. i personally use only wirex.
Tenx has started lately to send out their cards.

but you are right, a lot of providers seems to have fully stopped. maybe they are going to start their business again when some providers have proved to work for longer time.

Thank you for that additional information, I might check their services. Personally I'm happy with Wirex but I wouldn't like for them to be the only or very few such providers. I think we need variety and competition of services, similar like with fiat cards.
Someone has memtioned that he is not using card because of favourable exchanges. To my opinion crypo debit cards are much better because exchange is done automaticly and there is no need for the bank account to be involved.

I mentioned that in my post, and it is great advantage for me just for fact there is no KYC, and that means my personal data are not exposed. It is true that converting crypto in fiat via cards is very desirable way for many, but all your fiat transaction go through a bank or banks. Some often think that using cards can make them invisible to tax service, but card provider is using some bank, and you give all your data in order to use such service. It's the same as opening an bank account in some foreign country.

AdvCash also teasing (started teasing in 1st of March (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1011381.msg49974361#msg49974361)) that they'll have their cards back soon. How soon, no one knows, but they are getting close.
TenX is Singapore only, they move way too slow.

I think that since the market doesn't look so bearish now, more card companies will pop up. As soon as people get on profit, they'll be more eager to spend.

Looking to add new debit cards to review to our site, which ones should we be reviewing first? Thanks

Site is this one btw, no one have to visit it :) https://gocryptowise.com/debit-cards/

it seems to me that they do not send their cards to all the countries in the world, so I still do not see them as something that changes anything


But:

https://i.imgur.com/TmNxSqq.png

https://tenx.tech/en/card

They also do not send their cards to all the countries in the world.


I'm considering using their cards, but I still need to do some research

I've recently started using a Bitcoin debit card that's not actually marketed as a Bitcoin debit card, namely the one from Neteller.
Aside from supporting Bitcoin, it also supports about a dozen other payment methods to load up your card, like bank transfer, Paypal, various local payment options (Ideal, Bancontact, etc.), ...

They do charge a 2.5% fee for depositing Bitcoins, but other than that the fees are pretty limited.

Have you ever made a Bitcoin deposit and then withdrawn money to the ATM with the card?
Because I always believed that with Neteller we could only deposit (wallet only) and it was not possible to convert it to $/€/£ and then withdraw the money with the card.

ah ok, thanks for clarification. it seems tenx is still way behind wirex. they are working very very slow ::) its a bit curious that they only offer their cards to this small circle of countries. do they have give a timeline or date? or only this "soon" message?

Main stream adoption on bitcoin by visa gonna pass soon. So we should say that bitcoin debit is not that much lacking among the crypto users. There are plenty of crypto debit card providers available in the market.
Advcash
Bitpay
Coingate
Coinbase(coming soon)
Wirex
Spectrocoin

So soon any ICO will come with the name idea of debit card providing but lets see home come people gonna give the interest for it.

Although there may be a lot of developing bitcoin debit, I think there are still many who might still be confused about its use because the value of bitcoin is always changing. and maybe it is still easier to use a credit card (visa / master), or a conventional bank debit card because it is definitely certain of the convenience obtained.

There are several reasons as to why bitcoin debit card are scares. I believe if it was a profitable venture for entrepreneurs, then it would have been a prevalent mode of business.
One of the reasons why it would be difficult to give a bitcoin debit card is due to the volatility of the market.
Another reason is due to the regulations which has made the use of Bitcoin prohibited in some countries.

What's up with Bitpay? - https://bitpay.com/card/

I was actually not looking for a physical card, but rather a virtual one to complete some purchases on sites that only accept VISA/Mastercard.
Didn't expect it to be this hard.

The closest that i was able to find was https://www.mycard2go.com/en/faq#card but they limit purchases up to 100 EUR and don't accept BTC..

Are there any options available for cards without KYC that accept BTC at all?

Paycent doesn't list Bitcoin, and i'm not sure, but i think they only accept Visa/Mastercard payments, which is quite ironic? (+ They require KYC)..?



Now this looks promising... https://cryptopay.me/bitcoin-debit-card/ 1000 EUR for unverified accounts, and the fees don't seem to bad..

Has anyone tried these guys?

Dear
If you looking for bitcoin and cryptocurrency supported Debit or Credit card, you can order card from us, BITVISA: https://bitvisa.cc/
Our topic in bitcointalk here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5113581

your site doesn't strike me as looking particularly trustworthy...?
And to order your basic level card, which can load up to 250$ MAX, i have to pay 69EUR for the card alone, with no VCC available? Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me, compared to the site linked above. *(Although that site sounds a bit too good to be true*)

---

Anyways, how does this all work, since the providers of these cards most likely get them from VISA, what will happen if they go out of business? Will my money in those cards vanish into thin air or?

If you want bigger limits, card can be upgrade to bigger level.

And this is basically the problem with bitcoin debit cards. They plug into the VISA system, when bitcoin was really meant to be a separate payment system.

If you want to spend bitcoin, it be better to make an effort to find retailers that accept bitcoin direct. If people start buying things with bitcoin, other retailers will also enable payment by crypto and pretty soon we won't need Visa at all.

When all the Wavecrest cards shut down, Xapo, Bitpay etc you had to apply to them for a cheque to be sent to you.

Whoever's supplying the card, the fiat will be sitting in their bank account. I have zero faith in some no mark coughing up and I'd never bother with an unknown card provider. I can't see there being any type of official protection. Any random prick can become a card provider. Visa don't care until they do.

The Bitcoin debit card trend is not yet started and also there is not much need of it as of today. Since you can do the transactions directly through wallets, the only need for bitcoin debit card is when you need to convert your Bitcoin into Fiat Currency.  Maybe the Visa or Mastercard need to rethink and integate bitcoin with thier services  and then we may see a rise in the number of compainices who will also offer Bitcoin Debit cards.

In 2017/18, many ICO started to claim that they will start the bitcoin debit card service and collected huge amount of money. Once the ICO were over, they just packed their bags of money and did not further developed their project. This made people lack of interest in companies claiming to release bitcoin debit card.
Also the bitcoin debt cards can only be used in the countries who have made bitcoin legal. You cannot just use the bitcoin debt card publicly if the bitcoin is prohibited in your country.

Any debit card that started off claiming it needed a token should never have attracted one penny of anyone else's money. There seem to have been a lot of them too. The only reason you need a token is to steal money from your future non customers.

Of course you can use a Bitcoin debit card publicly anywhere in the world because there is no such thing as a Bitcoin debit card, it's a Visa card pre funded with fiat by a Bitcoin sale and Visa is usable almost everywhere.

You won't be able to get one issued to you any more if you live in places like Bangladesh, but someone coming from elsewhere can use it just fine.

That sucks. I was just thinking of getting a virtual card from Cryptopay.me , and still are. Just trying to calculate if the risks offset the upside (anonymous VISA card..)

Not sure yet..  :-\

Anyone know https://cryptopay.me/bitcoin-debit-card, or has a better alternative? I'd love to hear it.

At the moment, I still think the best option is to get a credit card from a reputable bank (which also isn't shutting down accounts of anyone associated with cryptocurrencies), sell your bitcoins privately or on an exchange, and then use that fiat to pay off your credit card. As mentioned, most companies which are offering "bitcoin cards" are just after ICO money. I'm not a huge fan of doing KYC for anyone, but I'd much rather do it for a reputable bank than I would do it for a bunch of anonymous internet strangers.

You are also likely to get a better exchange rate doing it yourself than with the fees you would have to pay on any bitcoin card.

As long as you don't put serious amounts on it it's worth a punt.

The Bitpay card didn't let you keep BTC on it, everything sent to it was instantly converted to GBP or EUR.

When it shut down, with literally no warning, there were people tweeting them with balances of £5-10,000 who were halfway around the world with no other option. That's bad. Obviously poor planning on their part too. They were prompt enough about sorting out the balances within a few weeks but that's not much use if you were in country trying to fund your Filipino hooker's womb transplant.



That's why I'm happy to take the modest hit they have. You never know when your bank will strike in the UK. It's something I'd rather keep completely separate. I can't be arsed to create a burner bank account.

You make a good point, and you never know when a bank will strike in any country, to be fair. My biggest stumbling block to getting one has always been doing KYC for a company in such a poorly regulated space, with unknown security measures and often anonymous or unknown people behind it. I wouldn't worry too much about it being shutdown suddenly, because I'd only ever be storing a small amount of funds on the card at any one time. If anyone could recommend a good international card from a company with a good reputation, I would be all ears. Even big companies in this space that you would think would be trustworthy (thinking of Coinbase here), have shown they can't be trusted with your data.

Cryptocurrency based debit cards are not that effective. The regulation against the Cryptocurrency is still under observations and monitory.
That is one point of the reason that Institution doesn't accept the crypto debit. Also as a point of view of a financial institution, you have to know if you can have a profit with the service you will be giving. For now, the crypto debit card is really unpredictable.

Well, let's just see the future if we will have it again. But I think a debit card with crypto won't work as of now.

Well, I thought I had, but actually not, I'd withdrawn the funds that I had deposited through other payment processors.
Just read this bit in their FAQ:


https://support.neteller.com/PAYMENTS/Deposits-Money-In/85238436/How-do-I-deposit-via-Bitcoin-Bitcoin-Cash.htm

That sucks, it's the primary reason why I ordered their card :-/ Just have it since 4 weeks ago.

There are probably more debit cards available and Wirex is definitely not the only one, but you're right on the issue.

The problem isn't a lack of bitcoin debit card providers per se, though. There is a lack of anonymous debit cards that could previously be used without any verification, and now, every single provider requires you to provide at least basic ID before you are able to use their services.

There isn't really nothing that could be done though, because this stems from a) the tightening of regulations which increase barriers for entry for prospective providers and b) the tightening of policies from corporations like Wavecrest in the past that has limited certain services from being able to be provided. You just got to make do with what you've got, or simply convert your BTC into fiat every now and then.

Hmm. I just tried to order a card from https://cryptopay.me/bitcoin-debit-card/ contrary to what's stated there though, it first tells me cards aren't available in my country. (I'm EU right now.)

Then it tells me to upload my ID when i click "Order Card".
Am i doing something wrong/missing something, or is their 1000EUR no-KYC card bullshit?

Any other KYC-free alternatives i'd ought to try?

---

e:
Anyone ever heard of https://uquid.com/faq (?)
They also seem to offer a "1000EUR no-kyc required"-esque card.

My GBP Coinbase card supposedly arrives this week. The app is still useless. it took 15 or so attempts to order the card. Now it wants my phone number but does nothing but flicker at me and eats what I type in. They better buck up.

I did have the cryptopay card, I used 2 times only  :D, after they disabled the cards since it was issued by W.C. It was the one that lasted the shortest for me. I believe that since then they have never updated their page on their site. I mean they may still haven't a new card provider. It's what I guess since the page doesn't even say if the card is a Visa or Mastercard.

All of the info out there needs cleaning up. There's so much old information on sites seeking clickbait as well as the card non providers themselves. If you can't be bothered to look a little deeper you'd think there were still plenty of cards available.

I guess it pays for these sites to lure users in without stating that they don't have a card to offer them.

They had a popular thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1384807.1440) in the forum, even when they didn't have any card anymore :D. Now it's dead for several months. Don't know what people are doing on this website, it's like Advcash. it's over 1 year since cryptopay announced a brand new Visa card, yet nothing. If Wirex, Advcash & friends can't partner with another company to issue cards their business is almost dead.
So far Wirex and Bitwala have been the only one to be able to recover the Wavecrest fiasco, after months and months of bureaucracy and a lot of money.

As ever it's the crypto bit that's easy. As soon as it hits conventional finance it becomes much, much harder.

It looks like Wirex and Bitwala have negotiated exclusive partnerships that must have taken quite a bit of convincing to secure.

I think people are expecting another Wavecrest, who clearly didn't a give a shit, to start issuing again to anyone who likes the idea. Not gonna happen.

I know Bitwala partnered with Solaris Bank (or SolarBank) in Germany. So they use a Baas (Banking As A Service) instead to rely on something like Wavecrest. On top of that, your funds are guaranteed by the govt (like any bank account; At least in my country and Germany, I suppose other EU countries have this guarantee too)
For someone who wants to create a company like advcash etc, It's much more flexible in the end, and there are established Baas like Treezor or Fidor.
Using a Baas seems to be a more convenient alternative they can use but pretty sure the company location matters as well. See for example Coinbase card for UK, Wirex is from UK

So, how it's Bitwala, any experiences? I use Wirex and so far I'm pretty happy with their card but I would also like to have another one, as an alternative. Wirex is UK based and I.hope Brexit will not influence their business and policy but you never know.

Can you please share your experience regarding the Wirex debit card? How much fee is required per withdrawal? Is it accepted by PayPal and other payment providers without any additional verification?

Thread here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1392468.0

Fees here - https://wirexapp.com/help/article/wirex-fees-0077

I've paid for Ebay buys through Paypal with it and it was fine. It's just another Visa card to them. Every site and shop I've used it with went through fine. That certainly wasn't the case with my old Xapo card.

So far so good, I'm happy when everything works as advertised. Everything is clear and simple and you own your private key.
I wanted to get the Wirex card as plan B but I'm waiting for the "after-Brexit". Being aware of the Brexit if Coinbase says recently they will open the cards to EU too I believe the risk that something happens is low, but I prefer to wait longer to see, no big deal

I've contacted their support (Cryptopay) and this indeed seems to be the case. Currently only KYC2+ verified people from Russia can get physical cards, (Passport + utility bill verified), and the rest is "Going to be announced soon".

Pretty nasty marketing if you ask me. I mean come on, at least remove the outdated card info temporarily.

I think this has been a method to keep existing customers left without a card.
And for potential new customers, it's a way of saying that for the moment it's not possible to come back later.
I hate wasting my time with such a thing.

The problem is not the lack of debit card providers per se, there is a lack of debit card that can be used without any verification. Ideally, each provider must provide an ID to use the services. This issue is also solvable if emerging companies consider that an ecosystem would make this process easier. Within the ecosystem, a franchise model must provide the banking-like service to solve the liquidity problem in addition to being who supports the debit card issuance and security in partnership with something akin to Visa or MasterCard.