Bitcoin Forum

I have an Electrum wallet and just received a Ledger Nano S. Should I just send all the bitcoins to the Ledger for longer term storage? If I want to make a bitcoin payment , can I send directly from the Ledger? How and why should I open an Electrum wallet synced with the Ledger?

Absolutely.

Yes. Through the Ledger Live wallet (which you can download on Ledger's website) or through Electrum.

It's up for you to decide which software you will use to communicate with the Ledger.

You can use your Ledger with Electrum by following this guide: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum

First of all install Ledger Live. Its a very easy and intuitive way to receive, send and manage your coins. Eg. just click on "receive" and you'll get an address where you can send your BTC from your Electrum managed wallet to.

Here is a first steps guide for Ledger Live: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395233-Take-your-first-steps

-> may be a bit overwhelming first, but once its set up Ledger Live is very intuitive

I use a Ledger Nano S since 2017, its the best and probably most secure way to store your coins in my opinion. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

If you are only interested in bitcoin, I would actually recommend using Electrum over Ledger Live.

Ledger Live is missing a few really key features which Electrum provides - the main ones in my opinion are support for native SegWit (bech32) addresses and UTXO management, allowing you to choose which address or combination of addresses to spend from for each transaction. Ledger Live provides a very nice interface, and is good if you are interested in managing several altcoins all from the same piece of software, but in terms of bitcoin functionality, it is inferior to Electrum. You can of course use the same hardware device to unlock the same wallet in both Ledger Live and Electrum, depending on your needs at the time.

To answer OP directly, personally I would create a new Electrum wallet secured by your Nano S, and send all your bitcoins to there.

Just to add on to what others have said above. You can also use Electrum to set up a watch-only wallet. Why would you want to do this? So that you don't have to keep accessing your live wallets (eg. in Ledger) to check your balances. Here is a step by step guide on how to go about this: https://whotookmycrypto.com/creating-bitcoin-watch-only-wallet-windows/

That seems completely redundant... Why would you want to create "another" watching only wallet using Electrum, when "Ledger Live" is already a perfectly adequate watching only wallet (that can also watch balances for several other currencies other than just BTC)? ???

You do realise that you don't actually need the Ledger device connected to be able to open and view all your balances in Ledger Live right? ??? That was one of the major reasons why Ledger released the native Ledger Live apps ;)

Even if you're determined to use Electrum, going to all the trouble of exporting the xpub is not necessary if using Electrum. Simply use the "Standard Wallet -> Use a hardware device" option and connect the Ledger... it will automatically import and setup the "watching-only" wallet for you and if you DON'T encrypt the wallet file, you can just simply not connect the device when you open the wallet and it will act exactly like a watching only wallet.

Not completely redundant. What happens if Ledger screws up an update and Ledger Live becomes inaccessible as with what happened earlier in the year?


As you said, that is only if you DON'T encrypt. Understand that it isn't a real security issue since the wallet doesn't contain the private keys/seeds within but personally prefer to have it encrypted.

Why would you want to do that? We recently saw a huge botnet attack on Electrum servers and this highlighted one of Electrum's vulnerabilities. <Well, actually a possible attack vector>  ::)

The Ledger Nano S with "Ledger Live" is the perfect choice for people who do not want to deal with other external wallet providers and their headaches. < Side note : Ledger also have some firmware upgrade issues that can be a headache for some people.>

So both options have their Pros and Cons.  :P

Ya, you are right, Electrum has some very nice features for more advanced users. But I think most users out there dont even know what UTXO management is ;) For those standard users Ledger Live may be a better fit due to its simplicity!

Yeah, there have been a bunch of posts here and on reddit with users having major issues trying to use Ledger Live on any version of Windows other than Windows 10, which is an issue when around 50% of Windows running computers are not using Windows 10.

Personally, I have both Ledger Live and Electrum set up with same wallet, unlocked from my Nano S. I use Ledger Live as a watch only wallet, to generate bitcoin addresses, general portfolio tracker, and for the rare times I need to send or receive altcoins. I use Electrum any time I want to send bitcoin mainly because it allows UTXO management, as I mentioned before.

Ledger Live is pretty limited with Altcoins functions too, for example they don't support transactions of tokens which are stored in your ETH address, you need to connect to MEW (MyEtherWallet) in order to see and spend your tokens.

As a reminder though, Ledger Live is relatively new, the company was using a different wallet for each individual coin before they create Ledger Live which I think is younger than 1 year old.
They update it often so I'd say, keep Ledger Live installed and periodically open it and test its functions, they may add what Electrum has and Ledger Live is missing at some point.

It's also important to update your Ledger's firmware... probably... well we can't know what kind of change might be introduced in Bitcoin's or an Altcoin's network in the future which might create issues with a non-up-to-date firmware. Personally I always check for firmware and wallet updates before I send big amounts with Ledger Nano.

I mean, honestly OP. Why did you even purchase a Ledger Nano S in the first place if it wasn't for long term storage? :P

Which really isn't a problem. When using your Ledger Nano S through MEW, your private keys don't get exposed regardless, so I don't see a single problem with this.

Is it possible to transfer Bitcoin from Electrum wallet to the Ledger Nano S without a transfer fee?

It is possible but then it does not make any sense for you using that hardware wallet.
This is possible only if you use your backup phrase from electrum and import it to your ledger nano s hardware wallet, but I would never recommend anyone doing this if you want to keep your coins safe.
All point of hardware wallets is to keep private keys offline and never out from device itself.

You can just wait for lower fees and that is probably going to happen this weekend, follow mempool.space website and send your coins with small fee, that I expect to be around 10 sat/vB or below $1.
Consolidate if needed, reduce number of inputs/outputs and use bc1 address format.

A Ledger Nano wallet will not accept an Electrum seed phrase. The only way to import an Electrum wallet to a Ledger Nano is if the Electrum wallet itself has already been imported from another wallet or source which creates BIP39 seed phrases. But, as you say, doing so makes no sense and completely negates the point of buying a hardware wallet in the first place.

If you are willing to spend $50 on a hardware wallet, then you can pay the transaction fee to move your coins to a new seed phrase created by the hardware wallet.

mempool.today website isn't working

Try mempool.space (http://mempool.space) instead.

I meant mempool.space, sorry for my mistake:
https://mempool.space/


I know they are using different BIP formats but ledger should accept other BIPs for importing seeds and not just BIP39, and derivation path may also be issue sometimes.
I need to check with ledger documentation for more info, and I wonder can Electrum seed words be imported to any wallet other than Electrum?
Imagine if one day electrum doesn't exist anymore their servers are down and you are stuck with their unique seed words format...

Rath_ talked more about this:

So I can export private key, but I don't think that importing private keys is possible for hardware wallets, correct me if I am wrong.

The same could happen to the Ledge servers or they have a general seed words format that I can use with other wallets?

Please recommend me a good book or video course about Bitcoin.

Electrum seed phrases are not a BIP at all. They use their own system as detailed here: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/seedphrase.html?highlight=seed

You can use Electrum as an interface to your Ledger Nano hardware wallet, but in that case the wallet is being derived using the BIP39 standard from the seed phrase created by your Ledger device. You cannot import an Electrum seed phrase to a Ledger device. As far as I am aware, Blue Wallet is the only other wallet which accepts Electrum seed phrases.

Not really a concern. As long as you have any old copy of Electrum, you can insert your seed phrase, recover your wallet, and then extract your private keys for use in another wallet, regardless of whether Electrum has been discontinued and there are no Electrum servers. The differences between turning an Electrum seed phrase and a BIP39 seed phrase in to the associated wallets are also very minor. You can edit a version of iancoleman to work with Electrum seed phrases by making two very small changes. It will always be possible to recover from Electrum seed phrases.

You have to be aware that Electrum seed phrase wallets derive at different paths to BIP39 seed phrase wallets, so if you export your Electrum seed phrase master private key to import in to another wallet, you will need to be able to specify the necessary derivation path. m for Legacy and m/0' for Segwit, as opposed to the more familiar m/44'/0'/0'.

This is correct, as again, importing an externally created private key completely negates the point of the hardware wallet in the first place.

Ledger wallet is using standard BIP39 for generating mnemonic seed and you can import this in most other hardware and software wallets including Electrum.
Servers can go down but you always have seed words and you can use full node and other wallets.


I have no idea about books but you can start reading Bitcoin whitepaper and watch anything from Andreas Antonopoulos on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/c/aantonop/videos

In other words, if Ledger as a company disappears one day, there are quite a number of alternative crypto wallets with which you can gain access to your coins. I quote only one sentence, but everything is explained in detail on the link above.


I suggest you start your research from here -> https://bitcoin.org/en/