Bitcoin Forum

I recently was reviewing the (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1785577.0) rules of Invites & Accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=234.0), and I saw this rule:


I looked on the first three pages of Invites & Accounts and I found a lot of threads that clearly meet this criteria. I am not sure if so few people frequent this sub that no one bothers reporting these kinds of threads, or if this rule is ignored by moderators. Some examples of threads that appear to be breaking the above rule, based on my knowledge of various services, and is limited to threads I was willing to click on based on the title indicating they might be breaking the rule:

Want to sell Wirex verifed accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5130649.0) - they are described as "verified" (implied as having gone through KYC), and there are many old "bumps" needing deletion, including multiple within a 24 hour period

Selling Coinbase Coingate Cryptopay and many other verifed accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5133293.0) - coinbase requires KYC and the description "verified" implies KYC was completed

Us Vba | Usa Virtual Bank account | USA Paypal Accounts Full Verified( No Hold )  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5101226.0;all) - PayPal requires KYC to be "verified". I am not familiar with how a VCC or VBA works, but I believe KYC is probably required to get these. There are many old "bumps" needing deletion in this thread

No 21 Days Hold Aged-Verified PayPal Accounts - China, Australia, USA, CANADA (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136035.0) - the topic says the accounts are KYC verified

SELL)Verified Google Cloud Acc (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5123997.0) - the topic says the accounts are KYC verified with "ID documents"

Escrow Available - Full verified personal PayPal (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5115354.0) - this is described as "verified" which implies KYC was done. The topic says the seller will "make" a new account, which may be an "explanation" but if these are not hacked, it looks a lot like identity theft, and I don't think it is good for identity theives to be transacting here

[WTS] Bitstamp/Huobi verified accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103066.0) - described as "verified" implies KYC completed, and these businesses require KYC

☆☆☆ USA / UK : BANK ACCOUNT'S ☆☆☆ [USE IN STRIPE,PAYPAL,VENMO,ETC] [🔥SALE🔥] (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5054105.0)
 - KYC is required to open a bank account in the US and UK

selling verified bet365 and skrill/neteller from UK,irl  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134150.0) - the "verified" description implies KYC. I have not used skrill or neteller, and do not know for sure if KYC is required to use these services

selling neteller, coinbase and movo account from UK (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5119965.0) - coinbase requires KYC

PayPal stealth account USA (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1766403.0) - PayPal requires KYC, and card information is being sold

Stealth Poloniex account Verification status: Verified (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2855409.0) - Poloniex requires KYC, and "verified" description implies KYC

Selling verifed BitPanda accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5121634.0) - I do not know what BitPanda is, but the "verified" description implies KYC

★ 100% SSN Verif. Paypal accs with transactions and access to Bank acc + docs! ★ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5130948.0) - "SSN verified" means KYC was done

{WTS}USA Debit Cards with Bank Accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5107847.0) - this looks like either hacked accounts or identity theft. KYC is required to get a debit card

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Can a moderator look at the above threads,  ban these users, and lock these threads if they are found to be breaking the rules? The main part of the rule is:

I do not frequent this sub very frequently, but did so because of a complaint about the Digital Good sub I was reading.

I know it is immoral, but is selling your own verified account or having the approval of the original owner considered legitimate.
If yes, then how to prove those accounts were illegaly obtained as sellers will simply deny the accusation.

The rules do not say you need to prove how they are obtained legally, they say you only need to give an explanation.

None of the threads I listed above have given any kind of explanation regarding how they were obtained.

The rule I cited is sellers are *assumed* to be selling cracked/hacked accounts if the accounts require KYC and no explanation is given. 

From the look of things, these account found wanted on this rules should be Banned, based on the cited rules. Their services aren't legal because of KYC involvement, no man with their right senses will give out his/her identity in return for money, especially in this digital world. Possibly one can presume that, these accounts for sales are cracked|hacked account which is against the cited rules. Although, am simply judging base on the facts on ground, personally i won't sell out my identity, if not hacked or cracked.

Most of the accounts involved are red tagged already; why others are just Newbie accounts. The concern Moderators will execute their final decision on this.

The rule is that if you are selling something you obtained illegally, you will be banned, and this rule does not appear to be enforced.

In the ~2 days since this thread has been opened, it does not anyone cares about the 15 threads cited in the OP, and AFAICT, no action has been taken against any of them.

https://i.imgur.com/UUg2437.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/4gT3CU3.jpg

I think the mods and the admins need to seriously take a look in this, I'm more worried about the buyers here since using accounts named to other persons besides their name technically is impersonation which is considered a felony in most of the countries, not only that the seller also provides literally everything from the necessary legal documents and even the Virtual Bank Account where you can withdraw your money in this things might look great when you are trying to have a verified account but this will just dig your graves deeper in the ground with the authorities. Thanks @PrimeNumber7 I never thought that the Invites & Accounts section has this kind of shady shit going for a long time now.

I have been uninterested in the Digital goods sub, and the Invites sub for this very reason, but did not realize this is against the rules until now.

A reasonable request.

Paging mods malevolent and EFS.....
Is this interpretation of Theymos' pinned post correct?
If not, why not?
If it is, why is that sub forum allowed to be such a dysfunctional shit hole?

If a user is selling 2 or more personal and KYC verified accounts they are 99% stolen or hacked because you only have 1 identity.
If someone is selling only 1 KYC verified account it should again be considered as stolen because what kind of person would be interested in selling his own paypal or bank account and have all that info released to unknown people over the internet?

These threads should not be allowed here.     

I tagged several of them but the problem is that they are coming back with new accounts, I think my tags are worthless there and need the power of the staff.

Even the ability to post with 10+ activity on that section can be useful.

I don't think that's necessary the case on all sellers here, if you look at the screens I have provided in my earlier post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5136289.msg50801257#msg50801257) you will see that the seller all have the KYC documents ready as well as the Virtual Bank Account that comes with it, if this is the case they are either paying off real people to provide them their documents for the purposes of creating an account or they themselves are creating fake identities of people.


Yeah I saw that you have tagged a lot of them already and I only have provided a negative feedback on a single member which you have not tagged yet. But just to be honest tagging them won't hurt their business in any way while their threads are still existing in the forum their presence of their services will still be seen by potential buyers here in the forum. The only way to completely solve this is by removing/deleting their threads in the section.

Yeah, i've gone through a number of options through my head, (maybe it is a custodial account on someone else's name, like a shell company), etc, but it's most likely someone using other people's KYC info to create these accounts.

That became obvious after the same paypal sellers linked above asked people to sell their LBC & Paxful accounts verified through them. ???



I mean apparently some legendaries actually think that buying ID's to pass KYC is a perfectly fine thing to do.. I'm not sure where exactly i would draw the line either though, (since KYC sucks major dick obviously..)..
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5127395.msg50445157#msg50445157

This is going out of control, mods should do something about this.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2017083.0

They even start to spam on each other thread.

That section of the forum is a real mess.

In theory, someone could be a reseller from those who buys KYC accounts from real people, but the rule says unless an explanation is given it is *assumed* they are hacked. There has been no explanation given.

Thank you for the help. I don't tagging will do much good. I think the buyers mostly know what they are buying. The more pressing question is if we want these type of people whose business is selling hacked KYC accounts to even be here. I think the answer is NO. Having these people here will only cause problems for other forum users.

I agree.

Even if there is an explanation it can still be a lie.
The seller can claim he is selling 5 Paypal accounts with permission from the original owners. He can even create fake conversations with the alleged owners in which they give him permission to sell the accounts. Fake screenshots etc... That is an explanation but a fake one!

Yes that’s possible. Once an explanation is given, the moderator can make a judgment as to how realistic the explanation is and they can ask follow up questions, in your example they could ask how he is finding so many people willing to sell a PayPal account.

The problem is that mods don't monitor scams and trades. DT members tag scammers but they don't get banned by the mods unless they plagiarise, spam the boards or in other ways break forum rules. Unless scamming becomes a bannable offence the threads and users will still be here in the future.

Another thing.
Rule #17 states:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

I am pretty sure there aren't any countries that allow the sale of bank accounts or credit cards and that is also against the TOS of sites like bet365 or Ebay etc. Maybe these threads can be reported as a violation of Rule #17.

What are you talking about? Read the OP. I clearly cited the rule the threads listed in the OP are breaking according to my reading of the rule.

I followed that link and commented on it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5127395.msg50835910#msg50835910), which may or may not be helpful on this subject.

KYC accounts are assumed to be hacked unless an explanation is given.

There is an argument to say that selling KYC accounts is prohibited period because this could be construed as identity fraud.

I do not think negative trust is enough in these situations. If you put a negative trust on a user saying that he sells KYC and documents that were stolen, and that user offers exactly that service, you're just attesting the quality of that service.

I believe that in these situations the mods must interfere. Trust negative or positive are not enough. And letting the forum become a market for selling stolen documents and other services that are illegal in any country can have serious implications for the forum.

Not sure what you are confused about. I don't think those type of threads should have any place on bitcointalk.

This sums it up pretty good:

I PM’ed 10 of the first 11 OPs of the threads listed and the below is what I found:

One thread appears to be deleted, hence why I didn’t message him.

I received the below responses:



The message I sent to all of them was:


I was unable to message more than 10 people because of PMs hourly limitations and haven’t had the time to come back to message the rest.

The first guy claims he isn’t selling hacked accounts but doesn’t give an explanation required by the rules. The second person gave an explanation so I guess he is compliant with the rules. The third guy claims to not be selling hacked accounts, but doesn’t give an explanation and his ability to sell in “bulk” gives me specific reason to not believe him.

Even though the second guy appears compliant with the rules, I would be uncomfortable with these types of transactions occurring within my forum because even with the consent of the person whose identity is being used, laws are almost certainly being broken when the buyer uses the account and both the broker and buyer may be breaking laws by completing the transaction.

Here is the law regarding identity theft (https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/penal-code/pen-sect-530-5.html) in CA and I believe even the second person that responded would be violating this law.

I didn’t receive any type of response from anyone else I messaged.