Bitcoin Forum

read the first sentance, I suggest stop trading it to fiat you fools, has satoshi?

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Please enlighten me, how will bitcoin mass adoption provide stability? How would bringing more fiat and more people using it, how does that stop volatility? How does that work? In what sort of dimension does that work.

What would make it stable is if the vendors only accepted bitcoin, and got rid of the fiat. You want to give me fiat this year for my work and literal fruits of my labor, I will give you what it is worth as toilet paper

It's just a fantasy that some people think is real. It becomes more obvious because it's a currency. Like any other currency, it's exchanged for another currency, it is something that is unavoidable in an exchange system, and everyone needs 1.
All currencies are volatile by nature, the same goes for Bitcoin so. It's just at another level. Also we could say like we're used to with gold. It's not Bitcoin that is losing/gaining value, it's the dollar.

As long as we have our local currencies, we are required to convert bitcoin to cash just to purchase our necessities.
In our country, cryptocurrency has been adopted in some areas and yet most establishments and businesses here only accepts cash so despite having bitcoins, we still have to convert it to cash. We can't control volatility because both fiat and crypto's value isn't stable and always changing and it's still for us to deal with it.

Its really an inevitable thing.Yes, we do know on what Satoshi do really aims on creating BTC but we cant really deny the fact that btc itself do get or gain its value from fiat itself.

So basically we are still tagging it up with fiat but the main thing here and we do able to see on how btc shows its benefits when it comes to decentralization when it comes to transactions.
Volatility would really be just normal and yet we do already able to see this even on traditional fiat currencies.

Not exactly agree with what you are saying. It not really the dollar that is losing/gaining so much of value everyday. Yes perhaps dollar is fluctuating but by an extent of inflation which is merely 2-3% if we call about the USD whilst Bitcoin is much more than that. You are right that every currency is volatile in nature and bitcoin too is volatile but the main thing is that it's volatility comes from the fact that people use it as an asset than to use it as a currency. Speculating it as an asset is what makes it more volatile everyday.

However the market is valued based on the demand to the supply availability. If the usage is found to be low, we can understand bitcoin isn't that big in demand. When there is good number of users making use of bitcoin automatically we can see the limited supply and when this usage goes beyond certain level automatically the market will turn less volatile and stable.

At this time who want to get money and buy food or anything they ussually need money and they convert bitcoin to fiat, will need a long time when we can use only bitcoin for anything.

If you're expecting for massive adoption and to have bitcoin as the national currency, I could say that we're still far from it. Bitcoin could be a mode of payment but merchants still don't directly accept it so fiat is still necessary. Fiat would always be involved in every local transaction despite the existence of bitcoin because it still needs further development and total adoption due to its volatility.

We still need cash not everything could be paid by crypto.
Even if we could use it to pay for anything do you really think that other would see it as a payment option?
Wake up not everyone in crypto wants to use it as a peer to peer payment they are only in here because of the price of BTC.
They are in crypto because they see's it as an investment they use it to gain profit so even if we could not everyone would use it on it's purpose.

A decentralized cryptocurrency, by its nature, will always have very high price volatility. This is inevitable, because, unlike ordinary currency, there is no authority that would conduct a monetary policy aimed at its price stabilization. Even if the number of market participants will increase many times, this will not reduce its volatility. Such a statement is a common delusion and is not based on anything.

Bitcoin’s whitepaper is like a Bible don’t read it literally. If Bitcoin would be available to every person in the world then buying and paying using will not be a problem, but due to the fact that it is scarce in capitulation it will be hard unlike the fiat that you can print anytime.

Stop trading? Are you a government official commanding people to not do something you don't like? Not cool.

Bitcoin = freedom. People are free to do whatever they want with their coins. Trading attracts liquidity and allows bulls to stack up more coins utilizing the volatility this market offers. The more coins end up in the pockets of bulls the more coins will be taken out of circulation in the long run. The largest chunk of profits through trading is sent straight to offline storage.  :-*

Also, this isn't the legacy market where there is one stock market orderbook. Here every exchange has its own orderbook, and the more orderbooks there are, the thinner they become, and thus the more potential there is for volatility to occur.

sorry it was a "suggestion" and yes I am the new leader of earth.  ;D

trade all you want buddy ^_^ but  know you are giving a limited supply for an unlimited if you change it to fiat :P
I see one person who is not that dumb enough

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Yes. And the debacle of Dec 2017 with the fees spiking set bitcoin back as regards adoption as a currency. Lots of retailers disabled bitcoin because it was no use allowing people to buy $20 items when the fee was $50 - $1000.

I think bitcoin is now a store of value rather than a currency. It might be an alt that takes the currency mantle in the future.

$50 fees for buying $20 items? That must have been a rare scenario. Its never that bad usually. The fees are pretty low these days especially if you are using Segwit and it goes down even lower if you have a LN node set up.

However, I do agree that we need to reverse people's views in such a way that they view BTC as a currency primarily and asset secondarily.

I guess one of the reasons much of the world don't use bitcoin for  buying and selling is due to its nature.  Some people understand that government do not like cryptocurrency. They try not to offend the government.  Another problem is the negative press on bitcoin. Thirdly, bitcoin isn't really better than fiat currencies in terms of speed or acceptability and Finally no mass promotion of bitcoin.

By the way, mass adoption won't stopped volatility but will probably slow it down.

I think that would suffice

I mean even if fiat was used somewhere in the middle as a go-between of sorts (i.e. as an intermediary between buyers and sellers) that still would do wonders to stability. If you pay for something with Bitcoin (even if it is later converted to fiat), that would contribute a lot to price stability. Indeed, getting rid of fiat completely is a cherished dream but if Bitcoin is used universally across the world on par with local currencies, wouldn't that in fact mean that it is used to a far greater extent than any of those currencies (other than the major ones like US dollar, of course)?

Volatility is a very subjective term because your volatility might not be similar to what I believe is volatility. Good example is how people believe fiat currencies are very stable, while that's not the case at all.

One of the main utilities of fiat currencies isn't just being money, but also functioning as speculative vehicle. Being a speculative vehicle comes from the volatility fiat currencies offer, and institutions bank on them every single day.

I think that if we reach gold level stability it's more than enough to serve every corner of our economy. I don't see it being possible that more stability than gold is a target Bitcoin will ever achieve. We have to be realistic.

BTC stablity will never make you profit on your investments. Please read the white paper of satoshi even he sold many bitcoins to keep him safe. Then who we people to stop such increase of circulation. I understand your thought on increasing demand for BTC.

While you invest on the BTC more and if there other market falls as well bitcoin can grow more than anything in coming days. We may find great days ahead of BTC since it is bumping last few days.

Not cool either

If more coins gets stashed, the real-life utility diminishes all along with that. And while the speculative value of Bitcoin may surge temporarily (due to supply squeeze), the long term effects appear to be strongly negative as there are always other cryptocurrencies which will shine where Bitcoin fails. Any money which aims to be a successful currency should be used, not stashed, and it is even more applicable to currencies which lack intrinsic value, i.e. value coming from anything other than being a currency

People will only stop trading btc to fiat if they have to buy something exclusively with bitcoin.
Otherwise it's still more advantageous to exchange btc to fiat, as you buy anything with fiat, and with bitcoin only few goods and services.

Where do you think Bitcoin's price is coming from? As much as I want to hold the idea to pay only in BTC it won't even have a price in USD or in any other fiat currency if people don't liquidate it to fiat. That's why if you look at BTC's price back then its technically worthless since there are no exchanges/people offering up Bitcoin at its USD price, Bitcoin won't be where it is now if no one will be offering fiat currencies to buy it. People have valued Bitcoin in USD because someone is asking/offering it at that price in order for Bitcoin to be valuable we cannot simply stop trading it to fiat, after all there is really no disadvantage when you are buying with Bitcoin and selling it to fiat at the same time.

The white paper states that bitcoin was designed to be a peer to peer version of electronic cash, but the problem that that idea was long have been neglected and forgotten, people say and hope for the bitcoin to become a major payment method, but they don't treat bitcoin as a electronic way of paying for thing they treat it like it like a valuable assets that should be held and never be sent, and that idea has hurt it overall nature, it made its price unstable and therefor unfavorable for usage by major companies and retailers. so unless this idea changes bitcoin will always have unpredictable and unstable price.

Big volume of speculations is what brought Bitcoin to almost $20K in 2017 and by that time almost everybody was rejoicing and proclaiming to the whole world the beauty of Bitcoin. I did not hear too much that speculations can be bad for Bitcoin unlike now...maybe we realized that too much speculations can hinder the massive adoption of Bitcoin. People are hodling on to their Bitcoin because they are expecting that its price can go up and up and away. And for now there is nothing we can do about it as we are in the free market. Maybe we should just let Bitcoin be as it is and see where the whole boat is going.

of course this will be difficult to do given the decentralized system in bitcoin, with no one able to control it, making prices tend to fluctuate, so stability is difficult to obtain, but don't know if all countries use it?

Just because satoshi nakomot wrote a sentence when it first started doesn't mean we have to follow his wishes neither. This is a decentralized coin and if you think even satoshi nakomoto could change that you are very wrong, satoshi could come out today and say that bitcoin should not be traded to fiat and only be bought and used and never sold it still wouldn't matter because people will continue trading it no matter what.

This is decentralized and nothing will change that, no persons ideas and thoughts is bigger than the bigger collective mind and thoughts, that is why we love bitcoin and that is why its different than the fiat we are getting away from, fiat is controlled by central banks, bitcoin has no central power. I will continue to sell my coins as I wish and buy coins as I wish no matter who says what.

Personally I don't want mass adoption of bitcoin because this coin was great when it's recognition was low but this coin was still pretty usable for buy most things you wish online. It got popular and some problems started like high tx fees, regulations, KYC documents and etc.
Every currency has exchange rates, bitcoin isn't an exception too but it's still different from local currencies. I think for those who want stable coin, there are already some choices.

Not true, we weren't "buying most things" and the number of merchants was very low and we could mainly buy digital items (hosting, domain, services,). The ecosystem was marginal.

If the high transactions fees were because Bitcoin started to be popular (here you referer to the crazy fees back to 2017-18) How do you explain that there are as many transactions per day as in 2017 and but the fees are ridiculous

And what was great about it?

Mass adoption, as the phrase itself suggests, means wider acceptance of cryptocurrencies (in this case, Bitcoin) as a means of payment. So, if anything, with expanding adoption we will be able to buy more with Bitcoin, provided we had been able to buy anything with it at all in the past (when its recognition was low). Simply put, I don't know what was so great about Bitcoin back in the day other than a sense of belonging to a tight group of Bitcoin users with a smack of elitism (if that is what you mean)

I don't think so because I am sure people still want to have more bitcoin in many ways and trading is one of those ways. They will spend some bitcoin to trade while they still have another bitcoin to buy a few goods and service. But I don't want to use bitcoin to buy something because bitcoin is my investment now. I prefer to use fiat to buy my daily needs and save bitcoin for a long time.

In some countries, for instance, in Germany, Bitcoin can be used to buy things. If you are a traveler and BTC holder, it is better not to convert crypto in cash and travel with any sums on your account (in Bitcoin wallet is this case).

Indeed, the volatility of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies compared to the volatility of national currencies of states is manifested at a completely different level. Any currency of the states still has links to the state of the economy of this state. Therefore, the volatility of this currency can not be too large. It can always be within certain limits. Cryptocurrency volatility has no limits in its price. This is the most volatile market and it will always be that way. Demand and supply can change with lightning speed and largely depend on news factors.

Travelling agencies now accept bitcoin, it is now applicable to buy air tickets, it is not gonna stable but increase the value in the world, people are using and taking advantage of bitcoin, some countries started to accept bitcoin as payment directly in their stores and people are reliably using bitcoin to buy things they needs for daily life.

What's the point in all this? How does this support Bitcoin stability? As far as I know, every cryptocurrency not only Bitcoin is volatile and it is acceptable ever since we invest in it. Which means stability in cryptocurrency is not that easily be achieved.

In my country there is something very feasible for many investors and for some speculators, with the local currency every day presents a lot of devaluation, which makes people constantly look for alternatives such as bitcoin, that is why the high volatility that the bitcoin produces They establish a strategy such as:

Buy Bitcoins with local currency, wait at least 1 week and the money that is generated is higher, this arbitration rate can only be used in a country that has high levels of inflation, even if the bitcoin goes down in price, the value in currency local only suffers small losses not so significant.

The volatility of Bitcoin in a country with high inflation may be able to stabilize the traditional economy of particular people who can do well this move or this strategy.

That is why volatility can be affected in some way in countries with much stronger and more stable economies, such as the USA and Europe, which are countries with a strong economy, and which have great support of all kinds.

In the countries of the South, businesses move in different ways and with different directions, and the digital age with bitcoin volatility makes the volume of people in the alternative economy benefit.

It will just be the same rule as fiat but like in a different dimension.
Combine Western Union and also fiat money.
But with speed and privacy and also lower fees to transact.

I am a regular user of WU and when I saw bitcoin and how far the difference in fees are specially with large amount of money, that is the time I switched to bitcoin.
Now using it as money. It is already. The only problem is some are still looking at it like gold or other commodity.

I dont know if this a story of yours or your opinion or a question.
Yes, once merchants accepts it like how they do it with COD or credit cards then we wont have a problem with stability. Bitcoin coming in and out wont feel any dump even with a whale selling large amounts of bitcoin.

True! People usually say fiat currencies are not volatile but that not the case. Whole forex market is nothing but the buy/sell of fiat currencies. Even fiat currencies are speculated.
No one is actually afraid of Bitcoin volatility right now. I think positive outlook of investors and government and bullish market is more required than a stable Bitcoin at present.

Except there is a regulation that will enforce the use of bitcoin as strictly digital payment method, we may not get any stability if bitcoin continues to be used for investment purpose only as seeing by many people and not as store of value or payment.

The only way there can be a control over it is when government is fully involved and regulate it same way china is trying to do by placing some restrictions on their citizens as regards cryptocurrency and despite the fact that it is a decentralized system, the citizens are still responding to the Rules and regulations which supersede any system.

I can't imagine how could one person acquire BTC outside mining if he won't trade fiat to it?  And how would miner sustain their activity if they will not convert their mined BTC to fiat?  Yes it is stated that it is what it is on that article pasted by OP but it does not said that it should be limited to that option.  I believe the conversion of BTC to fiat and vice versa is needed to help Bitcoin ecosystem healthy.

If there is anyone here that is confused and don't know what they are doing, then it is you, @ op. You're the only one here that doesn't know what they doing. There is not going to be a time that Bitcoin is going to be stable, for how long it is going to stay, it will always be volatile and that can't be changed at all. Even if all bitcoins are mined just like some people usually assume that you wouldn't be able to find any buy, lol, it will still be volatile then and you will still have more than enough of it to buy even after all has been mined. Don't let anyone deceive, it's your choice too'.

As a national currency, I am sure that Bitcoin will not be used in any state. The national currency is always tightly tied to the state of the state economy. The price of bitcoin cannot be tied to the conditions of economic development of any state. Bitcoin can go in society along with the national money of states, but can never replace it with itself.
As for the volatility of the price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, it will always be very high, as long as the cryptocurrency remains decentralized. No other factors will significantly affect this.

You sure you're not converting your btc to fiat?
Not everything we need and want to buy is available for bitcoin payment. How can we maximize the use of bitcoin if merchants and shops that accept bitcoin are limited? Even digitally, the one that accepts crypto is still very limited. We're not going to adjust what we have to buy just for us to make sure not to convert it with fiat. Since converting it to fiat is possible, we could do it if we want to.

In US i guess it will not be accepted but in Venezuela it's approved. Mostly because of their necessity but i doubt any other nation or will do the same.

I mostly agree with you

With that said, though, we must remember that there are countries (like a dozen or so) which don't have their own currency, and are using a foreign currency instead. It is mostly the US dollar throughout the world but the Russian ruble is also used in certain so-called unrecognized states in lieu of a full-fledged national currency. In this way, it is quite possible that a particular country could adopt Bitcoin as its legal tender on equal terms with some other currency, especially in the cases mentioned


I agree with that too

But volatility is most certainly to stay not because of a decentralized nature but rather due to the speculative essence of cryptocurrencies. After all, gold is also decentralized but its value is a paragon of stability. If you see its price change, remember that it is not gold's value per se that changes but rather the value of the currency it is priced in. Gold itself is rock-solid (despite being a soft metal on its own)

We are still under the theory that bitcoin will someday be the global currency knowing that its volatility is out of control. It can be a solution if people would stop trading it into fiat since double spending occurs if ever they did so. A peer to peer network might work but we are not really sure about that yet because that is so far from happening since there are only few who are aware of this proper process of crypto. Most of us trade bitcoin into fiat so that we can use it in our necessities and greedy desires that's why I think we cannot really expect bitcoin to be regulated properly and gain back or gain more value.

Are you sure you don't want trading profits? You will change your mind if you give some bitcoin. Be realistic, before high bitcoin increases, there are those who trade bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions are carried out P2P without a third party, here whatever you do as the owner of bircoin has the right to do any transaction, it doesn't wrong in my opinion.