Bitcoin Forum

Hi,
Binance was hacked for the first time few hours ago.
At first they tweeted this post:

https://i.imgur.com/zegQGpS.png
Only maintenance? Funds are SAFU?

After that they explained what happened:

https://i.imgur.com/lQJu6Xw.png

What does it mean for us?
1. The biggest and most trusted exchange was hacked - funds are not safe when you hold them on CEX - finally confirmed by the biggest one.
2. Binance lied and maybe this is not for the first time? Is it really good exchange as we think?
3. Bull market confirmed? Bitcoin price wasn´t affected by this, that doesn´t make any sense, since it is one of the biggest negative news this year! (the view of the centralized exchanges will change completely).

Either binance lied or not is out of question

How do you expect just 7000 btc to crash bitcoin ?
This is not 2018!, no body panic sells that easily any more

Bitcoin with billions cap, you expect a less than 50 million stolen bitcoin to dump it ??

Regarding centralized exchanges, any one can be hacked and binance hack just proofed that’s
Maybe using a cold storage prominently saved binance; but let’s watch out how the self acclaimed SAFU works

As you can see I am talking about fear. People will start realize that funds are not safe on exchanges. This totally changes the point of view.
All of us believe in Binance´s security, now we can´t trust anyone. DEXs gogo!

well binance is an exchange, no one should store funds in an exchange.. they have a high security system but what happen??whether they lied or not you have to moved out your funds from exchang

biggest: yes
most trusted: absolutely not.

if someone chose to trust them just because they were "big" that is their mistake. binance like all the rest of the exchanges was not at all trustworthy. because it is no different than any of them.

as all of the other "big and trusted" exchanges before it did.

bitcoin shouldn't have been affected! Binance is an altcoin exchange and has nothing to do with bitcoin.

Even me I can't believe what things happen to Binance, people now are starting doubting that they thought Binance exchange is safer when you are storing your fund. They expecting too much on Binance security system but at this moment may be one of them are disappointed. Nevertheless, there is nothing effect on bitcoin this hacking incident, it will recover soon.

how many is that? 50 or 60th case of exchange hack in the past years?
and people still trust centralized exchanges with their money. i wish it stopped there but they are also trusting them with their personal information which they force their users to give them in the name of KYC so basically you are not safe at all with your money or with your identity. they both are now in the possession of hackers and will soon find its way to dark market and be sold to thousands of others who will abuse it.

This is not first attempt on Binance. They have experienced some attacks also. And there were loss too. But they figured out how can they solve this issues. I am sure they will solve it again. And they promise that everyone's investment is safe. I think there is nothing to be afraid of.

They didn't lied about anything. SAFU is a special funds stored in cold wallet to compensate for any loss due to hacking or other crisis.
Just about 2% of binance funds lies in hot wallet so this hack doesn't render binance useless.
Yes, it does make us think about an unhackable dex but again a being hacked in cex is safer than being hacked in dex.

i hope DeX technology getting better in the coming days, we can avoid these hacks if it were DeX

The hack in Binance will not be affecting Bitcoin or the whole cryptocurrency market for sure...this is just a drop in the bucket, so to speak. Now having said that, I think this can be affecting Binance itself because we are assuming that it is the safest cryptocurrency exchange in the whole world being the number one and the most popular as well as the most pro-active of all them all. However, I am sure that days from now people will start to forget what happened to Binance. This should however be serving as a big warning to all exchanges big and small to be careful and to make sure that their defenses are always alert, alive and enthusiastic (borrowed from a song no pun intended).

When are people going to learn that your funds are not safe if stored on a centralised exchange? It doesn't matter who they are and how big they are. No one is hack proof. Your funds are at their safest when sitting in a wallet where only you have the keys. This time the people who lost money are in luck that it was relatively small in comparison to money that binance has set aside and I hear that Binance will make good on their loses. But the next one might not be and the Government is not going to come to the rescue of a crypto exchange and bail you out.

If the hacker able hack the exchange, it's a matter of time that they will hack your personal wallet.

It's frightening  :-\
We already enter year 2019 but hacker still able to hack, it's really difficult for me to explain the great side about crypto

1. that's the risk when it comes to the centralized exchange site and you can't predict if there was a still vulnerability that can be used by the hacker to stole the funds.
2. that's still a good exchange and they said will take all of the responsibility for that. To give back the stolen amount but the hackers are stealing from its hot wallet and the user's funds are still safe. I have opened my account and my balance still there.
3. this case doesn't have any relationship with bitcoin.

I think it was an inside job. Binance isnt a small company, they deal with millions of dollars daily on a huge infrastructure. They definitly invested a lot of money in securing their systems, breaking into such infrastructure is nothing you can do without a deep knowledge of the topology of their network.

i think all CEX is not safe, after binance was hacked, one of the most biggest and security exchange people will scare to put their money on exchange.
but CEO binance say, no need to worry because its just 2% of amount btc in that market, so that mean it will not be effected as he said.

Nice analysis! I don't pay attention to the twitter page of CEO after the massive bad news flow on the crypto news sites. Maybe, we are already in the bull market and nothing can stop the possible bull market. Binance CEO lied and he did the same thing at the last Celer IEO on the Binance.

Hacking technique evolve the in same  manner the security improve.  

I do not think Binance lied, Funds being safe means, even though the hot wallet is hacked, it only covers the 2% and that with SAFU, they are able to preserve the balance of their depositor.  Meaning no depositor will have a lost during that hacking.  Still, it is a shocking news that Big exchanges that have tight security protocol can be hacked.  


You can say it that way but when it comes to cryptocurrency, people always thinks of Bitcoin just like what happen to the previews BCH issue.  Besides, it is 7000 BTC, it can have an effect to the market if it is sold aggressively.

I think people who got stolen should still be responsible for their lost. Even though people say that an exchange site is one of the most secure or trusted, our funds is still our responsibility. And we should store them in a much safer place. Exchange sites are not wallets where you can put your money in a long period of time. We should still think of the possibility of it getting hacked. And I think it would not affect the market that much.

If these hackers know how to hack the exchange, it is not impossible to protect the account IMO. The worst point is the gaps on the API codes hich can pump any coin on the exchange but we don't know what kind of knowledge they know about the API.

Guys, no need to be fricki'n mad about on what happened, just move on, in fact nothing here in these world are safe. Everything has its own weakness, nothing is perfect. Its just a matter if intelect, these hackers have proven that they're superior on this kind of career.

Everyone of us has its own talent, its only up to us whether we will use it for some bad things or not.

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Even if Binance has been hacked numerous times as long as they can assure that the funds of the users can be retrieve there's no problem on that. In fact, Hackers doesn't care about the informations of some normal user. They would be more interested on hacking and using the bug accounts.

So, if you're not holding a million or a billion USD worth of token/coins then no need panic.

This is what I also thought. When I saw the hack news, I was looking to see millions of btc withdrawn or even see binance users complain of their funds missing, but none of that happened. The space is filled with smart and sensible traders and investors these days.

Thry didn't lie about what happened, they noticed abnormal movement and announced maintenance which promtrde the second announcement when they have discovered they have been hacked, they are plain about what happened.

Yeah, heard about the Binance hack -7000 Bitcoin gone just like that. It's a pity but it reinforces everything I've been saying about not putting huge funds on exchange. It's so risky as any exchange can be hacked - a bug or slight error could be capitalised. Well Binance may not feel it as it's a major exchange. Others should learn 

I agree that exchanges aren't the best place to store coins long-term.

I disagree that the people who get coins stolen during an exchange hack should just accept the loss. That would mean that exchanges have no responsibility for their own operations, and would be free to do what they like with zero accountability. Businesses everywhere, whether in crypto or not, must always be accountable for their own behaviour.

Keep calm, no reason to panic. As CZ said, only about 2% of bitcoins were withdrawn from their hot wallet. This amount is insignificant so it will not affect the balance of the users of the exchange. But this hacker attack once again proved the vulnerability of centralized exchanges and we can only wait until binance DEX will start its work .

From what I understand in the post and some reports from the news, as in some media that came in contact with them over this hack issue, everything in good move and will be taken care of.

Trusted? In what regard? Keeping coins in a exchange has never been safe. One of the golden rules in the cryptocurrency world is to control your own keys. Just because Binance never got hacked before doesn't make them a "trusted" exchange, it's just that they never were the target of hackers.

That's just speculation, don't be part of the opportunists that are trying to bring Binance down with unfounded comments.

There was actually a dump yesterday from 5.9k to almost mid 5.6k's, not sure if it was after the hack news were released, though.

not really!
most cases of exchange hacks are either a fake story by the exchange that is trying to pull a scam or is an inside job because that exchange had no idea how to properly secure their wallets. otherwise the cases of individuals getting hacked is so few and the cases of individuals who bothered learning what "cold storage" means and did it correctly is 0.

that has nothing to do with "crypto" or "side" of it. it is all about "services" and their lack of knowledge about security.

CZ is very very stupid man with his words about ROLLBACK bitcoin network.
Although he took his words back, this all creates a very unfavorable attitude of the crypto community to him.

i dont think its first time in binance, i remember in past also hacked and they announced the bounty whoever found and helping to stolen money , he/she will be rewarded

I am not sure about this statement, he only thought about it, but he found out that it doesn´t make any sense.. He is very clever, he doesn´t want to harm complete market. I am thankful that he didn´t decide to rollback Bitcoin chain.

I think if you know what you are doing like setting-up your own firewall or layering the security, the chance of hacking your own wallet by someone else is very slim.
We don't know exactly what kind of security Binance had. Was it really tight and secure considering that they are one of the top exchanges?
Their security team should know how to guard their fence really tight because we're talking about billions of dollars that they are holding.
We don't know the real story here. But one thing for sure, their clients' funds are safe, they will cover those losses in case.

It will have an impact on the market. Maybe the hackers will sell the BTC they took, but whether Binance will remain optimistic and will not happen again.

At least they are paying back the lost amount.

But they need to tell in details, how this happened. If not, i probably won't store anything in binance anymore.

It's frightening if you are still considering hiding your funds on exchanges but keeping it on your personal wallet such as ledger / trezor, I don't think that there's something to be feared of.

That's the reason why they were called hackers, they don't have any goal but to steal others money through penetrating the security of a platform like exchanges or casinos. And these hackers are eyeing for the ones that has large funds on their vaults.

In addition, the difference is that they continue to look for the vulnerabilities of a site, continuously. Whereas site security guards, if they feel safe, they don't make it strengthen anymore. Until finally their security was break. When it's like this, I'm worried about another big exchange site, it's definitely become the next target.

This is absolutely true. The most joyful part about the Binance scenario is that the bad news didn't affect the market noticeably like the big FUD used to affect the market negatively. This shows the entire crypto community is improving in mindset. The best way to safe funds will be in personal wallets, no two ways about it. This is where decentralized and hybrid exchanges win, when it comes to hacking setbacks.

The price was unaffected because most of us expected this. There were so many similar hacks that only a fool or a binance user who had money on his account could panic at a time like this. After all it's just money changing hands and it shouldn't impact the price. When somebody robs a bank does the value of the currency change? The money is still in circulation.

Funds were never SAFU on exchanges as they are not for storing your funds there. On the other hand when trading  I am confident to hold my funds on Binance as I am sure they would refund my funds  if they were hacked. In that sense our funds are  SAFU on the biggest exchange and greatest and more trusted exchange.

It's true that if they feel comfortable and safe, they won't do something to upgrade and make their security better. And now that the hack has happened, they will take precaution and would look for the faulty side of their security. I've read some people said that this isn't an actual hack just like what others did, it's more of an inside job. Well I won't believe those hearsays, I'll believe more what BNB itself would say on this situation. I just wish that they will recover soon.

Binance earned billions with just BNB coins,leave alone the listing fee and transaction fee
It can easily compensate the loss for sake of credibility ,so that it will not lose customers and business

I appreciate binance to gain full trust. SAFU is part of a binance strategy to prevent worries about possible bad situations. Lying or not I think must be proven, and this hack case is an opportunity for binance to prove it.

When he says that the funds are saved, it means the resources of the users. The exchange has sufficient resources to cover these failures

What we need to care is:
How can they solve their problem after be hacked?
Does the balance of users affected when they published hacking information?
And what I see they have been disabled  withdraw and deposit functions and cleared API key. So we must wait what would happen in the next time.

I knew that one day binance would be hacked, because this hackers are not sleeping for hours looking for all method possible to hack the biggest exchange in the world, though they said that what the hackers were able to just get the api keys and details of individual account and not the central wallet itself, this means that binance is shifting the blame to the holders of this api keys I think, though let's here the final conclusion they have about the hack and so how they handle it.

Hacking Binance is very sad news, but it is only proof absolutely every exchange can be hacked. So no matter how trustful and secure exchange looks it is better keep your funds on your own wallets.

These means absolute nothing ,I trust binance exchange and frankly do you expect 7000 btc to drag down bitcoin price ? Or you expect binance to run after the hack ? Of cos not ,binance is still one of the best

Everything is still suspended, and traders and  investors need to wait for the updates coming from the team. For investors who are in need of their funds, it's a hassle seeing your funds stuck and you can't do anything but only to watch and wait till further announcement will be provided by the owner of the exchange. It will take some time for the investigations and the possible solutions to cover those hacked amount of bitcoin.

Wow, this is coming too early than I thought, I was just having discussion with a friend recently about the security challenge we are being faced with in the crypto world and we talked about Binance as probably being the safest for now, but someone made us understand that because it is Binance doesn’t mean they are perfect and doesn’t have their own lapses too.

If an hacker can successfully hack a whole US account to steal fund, then what can’t they do, everything that has to do with this security being mentioned is about coding, and coding level has degree too, these hackers are great software engineers and there is no company they cannot hack once they see a little lapses, but I am sure this will be the last of them, because Binance would have seen their mistake and amending it immediately, that is why they could probably assure other wallet holders of a secured wallet.

Some months ago CZ challenged in a tweet that their exchange is impossible to hack. He even challenged the hackers to penetrate through the system. And now? Someone hacked the exchange! Lol.
Anyway he accepted that his exchange was hacked. That's enough. No lies here I believe.

After this case, I think many people really think about where it is better to store the funds.If such large players are exposed to hacker attacks,then naturally the level of people's confidence in the storage of funds on the exchange will decrease.

I suggest you read up some other articles that was published after that and understand what the SAFU was for. The hack of 7000btc was from the hot wallet and he said they will use funds from the SAFU to make up the loses. Also Decentralized exchanges can be hacked too

I don't know why anyone would hold it against them that Binance lied. Were we actually expecting them to come out with the truth in such a frontal manner and cause panic? Hell no! I expected a damage control sort of strategy first. That is what every reasonable organization does.


That incidence hasn't even crashed the price of the BNB coin, let alone Bitcoin. The effect of that theft isn't anything.

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BTW, I checked my funds with Binance and everything is intact.

And what about BNB speculation? BNB lost around 20% of its value with this hack. Maybe we will see soon retracement?

Why do you keep a large amount of your funds on the stock exchange? It is not safe. Because of this, there are various purses. No exchange in the world is safe from hacking. There is always a professional group of hackers who can do it. I think Binance dont took extra responsibilities.

It is always been advised that we must not use Exchange platform as our bank to save our coins.  Those who leave all their coins on an exchange and use it as a bank will blame no one but themselves if that exchange is hacked and their coins gone.  Lucky Binance have SAFU were it insured the fund of the user if ever unexpected things happen like this current hack.

We really need to be responsible for the safety of our funds, experts and analyst has already seen every means hackers can use to steal our money and that is why they have suggested we do not store money on any exchange, even if the exchange is our own.

The safest means of storing coins is actually on hardware wallet, but because of the cost attached to it, there are still other ways of storing our coins and protecting it, especially if we store it on wallets that can give us our own private key, so it now left to us to protect our private key from hackers and also securing wherever we store our private key very well.

Binance will refund their users so you can count that the funds are safe. we must understand that every exchange and wallet may be hacked.

As i already read and see some videos, the stolen funds was from hot wallet and not the funds that are on hardware wallet, Binance is not like Cryptopia, who take a lot of time reopen and they also not give all coins back, Binance cover the loss from their funds and users not lose nothing.

No you are wrong. The funds are indeed SAFU because if it was not then all those who lost their bitcoins would never have received it back in their wallets.
Although Binance lied that they are doing an unscheduled maintenance they did reveal the real reason behind it.
What else do you think they would have said when they hadn't even analysed what had happened at that time.
If they would have said anything other than this then it would have created a panic among the people and spread a FUD in the market.
I think what binance did was probably the best thing to do.

To be honest, it smells like a hoax. Perhaps there was no hacking.
I found an interesting version of what happened. (You need an online translator)

https://miningclub.info/threads/binance-opjat-nagrel-xomjakov-istorija-vzloma-kotorogo-ne-bylo.56695/

Well, hacking cases in centralized exchanges are not impossible.
But at least, big exchange like Binance will take full responsible of what has happened.
Traders and investors in binance no need to panic, because their bitcoin will fully refund from Binance's SAFU.

as long as binance cover all investor or user lost i think that still okay.
but for trusting binance again it different thing. being one of the biggest exchange but can't give assure for user if they asset safe there. binance surely need time to get user trus

If it's not a break-in, it's not clear why it was done. Some people say that there is a cartel conspiracy between large exchanges.

Please go back to Bitfinex hacked in 2016, they lost like $60 million, we are in a middle of a bull run that time, but the market wasn't affected as well. So this is what we are seeing right now, no matter what negative news we have, if we are in a bull run, it can't be stop. So it make sense for the price to continue to increase. Binance already confirmed that deposits and withdrawals will resume early next week.

https://www.binance.com/en/blog/333497959022997504/Binance-Security-Incident-Update

So I don't understand why are there so many conspiracies.  ;D

The fact remains that no exchange is safe and never trust anyone. Whthere its a too Exchange or not. It’s better to keep your funds in cold wallet or any wallet where you can personally control and monitor it. This of course won’t affect the p ice of bitcoin or maker condition because now we are in an expectation stage where everyone is waiting for bull run no more panic selling.

Funds are actually ##SAFU.
The only confirmation form this occurrence is that no matter the amount of security they tend to offer Centralized exchanges are not the best place to save your asset. I believe ist time for DEX to rule the world of exchanges

Even the binance token BNB wasn't affected significantly, how much more bitcoin itself. This incident is just a warning to everyone who keeps his money on exchanges. Even your personal wallet is not safe

I think Binance is a good exchange irrespective of what happened. Also, I never thought what happened to Binance can have any effect on Bitcoin owing to the way Bitcoin has been growing since.
Furthermore, this should send a strong warning to all that funds in centralized exchanges are not safe.

Learn from this incident, but in the other way around market become more bullish after this things happened, binance reputations seems to be
affected but the entire community is not paying attentions as the bull brings more rise and it's keeping the momentum to go up further.

Binance can't be lieing, as will all know Binance token is even affected, due to the Incident BNB since then keeping dropping as Binance team trying to fix up the holes as quick as possible. Is better will all believe Binance is a big exchange that has grown more than lieing.

The truth is that I don't trust any of the centralized exchanges out there and they can always manipulate things to favor them. Despite the huge profits they are making, none of them is insured and this put all assets holders on those platforms at risk.

They never said all the funds were safe but all the user funds will be safe if there is any lost they will refund the amount as well.

Even after the hack the price didn't fell because more people are entering into the market and the hacked amount is not much bigger compared to daily volume.

First, it is a well known fact that storing funds in exchanges (centralized exchanges to be precise) is a bad idea. The Binance hack has proved that point.
Secondly, about BTC, I don't think the Binance hack will ever have any negative effect on its price, owing to the fact that since this year BTC has been showing good market growth.

That's your own view. We are always too quick to judge. The CEO said they will use the SAFU funds to make up the looses. Point is that you are not even working on binance to make this statement

Binance is not responsible for this attack I think. Their security is on the highest possible level. But there was problem on the user´s side, when user´s passwords and 2fa authentications.

I don't think Binance would lie to the community. After the hacked in their exchange the CEO did an AMA regarding the issue and that alone is a form of transparency. No exchange is safe for hackers and the users must protect their accounts at all cost.

I don't agree with your opinion. Binance did all the things that should be done by the hacked exchange. Do you remember Cryptopia and MTgox hacking events? I can't imagine the situation after the hack if there was no investment protection funds.

Binance lied? You should say this thing if they wont able to compensate the loss yet they do say that they would patch it up by SAFU funds.So what are you bothering around?
Atleast they do have that kind of emergency fund yet 7000 btc isnt really a small thing.Judging too early is no good.


Yes, it should really be intended for trading but storing up your coins on an exchange will have that easy accessibility and less hassle when you do see
profitable trades and making some positions quickly rather than transferring back and forth came from your hard wallet to exchange anytime you do make trades.

Exactly, at least Binance has done some control after the hack that makes all investors calm after the attack. After so many years, even those Mt. Gox who is claiming their money can't still get it up to this time.

So we should appreciate what Binance has done after that hack and they are willing to refund everyone through their SAFU.

Funds are not totally safu, binance is no longer the safe haven we all thought it was. If hackers can get to binance then they can get everywhere hence do not leave your funds on an exchange. Dump BNB before it hits the floor, try kucoin 2.0 which is much safer

Crypto users are better informed now than a year ago when a breaking news will spark massive dump. And to add to that, the market is quite healthy and less people are concerned by the binance hack. No CEX is safe, not even Kucoin that some guys are recommending as a better alternative. Simply keep off your assets from centralized exchange except you day trade.

Kucoin is definitely not a safer exchange than Binance. Hackers can hack it if they want, but the fact is that the Kucoin have a very small volume and therefore they are not interested in it

I certainly agree with you. Our funds are not as safe as they came to tell us. Who even knows whether tos wouldn't be the end of it. It is still hard to accept I left my btc on that exchange

Apart from being an advocate of DEXes, it is obvious that CEXes are not too safe for our funds. We need to start giving decentralized exchanges some considerations, because it us the way forward.
If Binance can be hacked, which exchange among the sdo called big ones is now safe?

It is certainly very sad that such a well-known and reputable exchange has been hacked. This will definitely undermine the credibility of all exchanges, because we cant be sure that our funds are safe. But as far as I know, Binance cares about his reputation and they're going to make up for the loss.

I didn't read the link you gave but it's somehow related to what I read (hoax stuff). I do agree with this. I have read somewhere that they might be avoiding some sanctions or whatnot. Having a "hack" could make it better for them or something. They can somehow transfer it all now to the DEX.

This is a lesson learned for Binance, I'm pretty sure they will do all they can, for this scenario never to happen again, they are one of the top exchange in the market, I agree if they can be hacked what more with smaller ones, Kucoin is a good alternative and we have not read any hacking on their platform, if they can keep up, they are on their way to the number one spot.

Still its not safe because hacker were able to steal money from the exchange. What if they were able to steal more like %50 of Binance funds then they would have trouble paying-up their customers.

Binance already promised to review the hack event and CZ promised to recover the affected exchange balances. SAFU is a great example if such a thing happens to other exchanges. Funds are safe and no need to worry anymore.

I think binance recover investor funds with SAFU funds and its already announced by CZ. This process getting more transparant and i think we should appreciate with what binance did in this hacking event. Security always become big issue in crypto industry and i think exchanger will improve their own security

I am agree, our funds are not safe in exchanger even in big exchanger with SAFU fund allocation. Its much better and relaxing if we store our coin in our own wallet. But i am not agree that binance lie because they already admit the hacking and recover all investor funds

The most disturbing thing about all this Binance hack is the way it was done, it is different from other hack and there are suggestion this could be an inside job, this is something I would not write off, maybe someone need a pay day and feel this is a golden opportunity, remember COinDash hack also there were suggestion this could also be an inside Job. The SAFU thing is just a marketing talk, don't be sold to it 100%

Frankly speaking, no exchange or any platform involved with funds Is above hacks. The routine maintenance done monthly or weekly is to ensure there's no harmful bug in the system and whilst they do the checks well, they are still not 100 percent safe. Let us look forward to how Binance will improve from this than rather go all critique on Binance

I think the ceo de binance said that the funds were safu not to generate a panic in the market, it could also be that he did not know the situation while the inspection was being carried out and then realize that the funds had been hacked. Anyway, I feel safe in binance, I think this hack will make it stronger

I think that there is no reason to worry. With great likelihood, Binance compensates for the loss of users. Binance is a very large exchange and it will not spoil its reputation because of 7,000 Bitcoins. I think everything will be fine.

I think Binance CEO lied many times already. Once he said a secure (Binance) exchange is safer than hardware wallet! And, Now we can see what can happen even in the biggest exchange! Funds are totally not safe in any kind of centralized exchange, that's why everyone should ignore exchange wallet instead of a personal wallet. But Binance's safu thing is not a lie, it is like a fund.

Could not agree more but there are options on these exchanges and since you are using their service, the users might want to just use the options available to them. Like you put your money in a bank without thinking about a possible hack, same goes here. Binance has been great in announcing that it will cover the losses of those who suffered but yeah, they need to upgrade things and work really hard on the security thing.