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Title: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: CryptoBry on May 09, 2019, 08:39:37 AM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Nadziratel on May 09, 2019, 08:52:37 AM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? I agree with you completely. It has to be irreversible!!! No one should have the power to get back blocks or anything! I just did answer some other thread similar question; I disagree with the idea of implementing this Rollback. Once completely against the feature of instability! There have been about 100 blocks since the hack problem. And it doesn't feel right to get all this transaction back. Moreover, those who have a lot of money in the crypto world. And no one knows they won't make it a habit. Thousands of people were being victimized in the event of Mt.GOX, or before, and no one was interested in Rollback? But when it comes to CZ and its precious exchange, we talk about it. CZ says that they are trying to be the best in every speech, making breakthrough in every field. CZ should not forget that the first thing you need to do is to secure the Binance platform and the money there! The most important thing we need to protect for Bitcoin is that we have to be decentralized. CZ, Ver or any person should not have this power. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: dothebeats on May 09, 2019, 08:59:07 AM It should always be irreversible and by no means a done deal once the sent button is done. However one can still divert the said transaction if it isn't confirmed yet, so the mistake can somehow be corrected within a few minutes, so people should be keen on the details of their transactions. As for thefts and fraud, I can say that the irreversible nature of tx somewhat pushes people to better their security and the way they keep funds. It's a double-edged sword, but certainly a good thing since it urges people to take extra caution in handling their money in order to prevent hacks and thefts.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: okala on May 09, 2019, 09:07:22 AM Bitcoin does not have a central authority that control it activities and that is one of the advantage and also the disadvantage of decentralization, unlike the faint paper money where the bank can make refound back to the sender in the case of wrong sending or frauds where the found still remains in the receiver account and it part of the double spending mechanism. But bitcoin don't have this feature and before a blockchain development that will carter for this will be in place it will take a long time from now, may be when bitcoin get regulated that can happen but until then bitcoin transactions is just base on p2p no middle man.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Lucius on May 09, 2019, 10:22:24 AM When we talk about bitcoin as a means of payment then in most cases is possible to prevent abuse. In case you buy something in this forum and you use escrow, transaction is safe almost as if you were using PayPal. Since most merchants accept bitcoin using payment processors, they should also in some way protect users, so in a way there is some kind of protection.
In case coins are hacked from user desktop / mobile wallet, only way to get them back is to find hacker and take that coins from him, but this is in most cases impossible. Some method that would make it possible to just move coins from one address to another without private key would be subject to abuse, and would totally undermine concept of bitcoin. The rule is that who controls the private key of some address, controls coins on that address regardless of whether it is a legitimate user or hacker. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: alisafidel58 on May 09, 2019, 11:38:37 AM If there was an option that in case that a fund has been hacked or is being used into fraudulent things then bitcoin will just be the same as Paypal or that option will just be abused, that why I think it's not viable to have that option. If you were to be hacked then the fault is yours for not keeping your keys in a secure place.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: davis196 on May 09, 2019, 11:47:48 AM This topic has been discussed so many times. ;D
Irreversible transactions are a huge advantage ,if you compare crypto to the paypal scam.In PayPal,you have to rely on the mercy of their dispute resolution process and the mercy of your customers. Bank transactions are supposed to be reversible,but that doesn't stop all the credit card thefts. ;D The only way to protect ourselves against hacks/scams is to keep our passwords safe. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Haunebu on May 09, 2019, 12:40:23 PM Irreversible transactions are a huge advantage ,if you compare crypto to the paypal scam.In PayPal,you have to rely on the mercy of their dispute resolution process and the mercy of your customers. I agree. Paypal chargebacks are a menace and have affected me and many people so many times and Paypal does not care most of the time which is why I personally support the irreversible nature of BTC.There is no guarantee that there won't be any more scams even if BTC TXs becomes reversible in nature. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: pushups44 on May 09, 2019, 12:47:37 PM Bitcoin's main selling point is immutability. There are blockchains like EOS that can reverse transactions, as in the case of theft or fraud, but they are controversial due to the perception that they are centralized and lack immutability. One of the main attractions of blockchain is its irreversibility. I'm curious how the EOS experiment will go, but they may avoid reversing future transactions out of concern of the negative publicity.
I like bitcoin just as it is, and I hope law enforcement will catch thieves using the blockchain. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: finaleshot2016 on May 09, 2019, 12:49:56 PM That's the problem here, being irreversible is not a good thing.
For my experience; I have a lot of mistakes when having a transaction, especially when selling some assets from a different decentralized exchange. I mistakenly sent it to a wrong address and my assets can't be retrieved. There's a lot of money waiting for me but was gone for an instant. The only advantage of it was when I'm receiving the assets and can't be brought back to the project owner. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: traderethereum on May 09, 2019, 01:11:16 PM Maybe it will happen in the future as the technology will develop to better.
That will be possible to see in the future with better technology and with the other coins, I guess ;D But for now, the only way we can do to prevent the mistake is by always double check the wallet address before we send bitcoin to them, so we don't make any mistake. But if that is related to the scam, then I don't think that there is a way to prevent the transaction because once it's sent, we cannot take the money's back, maybe I am wrong. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Johnzky on May 09, 2019, 01:16:54 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: muslol67 on May 09, 2019, 01:17:30 PM As far as the Rollback has been applied only once. However, it was done immediately after the event and the transaction was fixed. Moreover, Bitcoin did not have so many transactions. So remember that you have a chance to create too many victims with each rollback.
You can see this rollback... Quoted from : https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident Quote On August 15 2010, it was discovered that block 74638 contained a transaction that created 184,467,440,737.09551616 bitcoins for three different addresses. Two addresses received 92.2 billion bitcoins each, and whoever solved the block got an extra 0.01 BTC that did not exist prior to the transaction. This was possible because the code used for checking transactions before including them in a block didn't account for the case of outputs so large that they overflowed when summed. A new version of the client was published within five hours of the discovery that contained a soft forking change to the consensus rules that rejected output value overflow transactions (as well as any transaction that paid more than 21 million bitcoins in an output for any reason). The block chain was forked. Although many unpatched nodes continued to build on the "bad" block chain, the "good" block chain overtook it at a block height of 74691 at which point all nodes accepted the "good" blockchain as the authoritative source of Bitcoin transaction history. The bad transaction no longer exists for people using the longest chain. Therefore, the bitcoins created by it do not exist either. While the transaction does not exist anymore, the 0.5 BTC that was consumed by it does. It appears to have come from a faucet and has not been used since. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: BrewMaster on May 09, 2019, 03:28:37 PM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? no, not when we have already provided lots of easy and convenient ways of securing your bitcoins in a way that it gives you maximum security while making it impossible for hackers to be able to have any way of accessing it. 100% of the hacks are because the victims weren't using these methods or were using them wrong. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Kemarit on May 09, 2019, 06:30:43 PM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? no, not when we have already provided lots of easy and convenient ways of securing your bitcoins in a way that it gives you maximum security while making it impossible for hackers to be able to have any way of accessing it. 100% of the hacks are because the victims weren't using these methods or were using them wrong. And worth to mentioned that it was not designed in the first place. That's why we always preached that you always have to protect everything, not your keys, not your coins. It's case of Binance though, they can't do anything about it as well, they will undermine the integrity of blockchain. CZ knows that as well that's why he immediately shoot down that idea. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: sopanbmp on May 09, 2019, 06:43:53 PM how about physical attack like robbery for example?, Blockchain technologies of course has many advantages, that's doesn't mean it's always perfect. in cryptocurrencies we are the Bank! so how we managing our Bank and keep it safe? that was our problem. Always stay in private maybe the right answer.
Here the list of physical bitcoin attacks : https://github.com/jlopp/physical-bitcoin-attacks/blob/master/README.md Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Genemind on May 09, 2019, 07:00:41 PM Even fiat and gold are irreversible in many ways.
Bitcoin was created with multiple functions and it's just disappointing somehow that we notice its weaknesses more than its strengths when in fact, it is just visible when being used in an illegal way. We should accept the fact that Bitcoin itself wasn't created perfectly and it's still on the process of improvement so it is just for us to deal with these lapses. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: kryptqnick on May 09, 2019, 07:58:40 PM I agree with Lucius that one of the ways to minimise the risks is to use escrows. Inability to reverse transactions after they happened seems natural to me. In some cases there are intermediaries protecting from scam, in others you just have to be careful to ensure the protection of your money.
I don't think a technology could make a difference here, but I think something like insurances from hacks can get popular. Say, you are paying a small amount of money monthly, but in case your wallet was hacked the insurance company reimburses your losses. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Ucy on May 09, 2019, 09:49:13 PM There is one simple way to reduce huge hacks on centralized exchanges to a bare minimum and that is, the use of combination of phone number, email address, authentication app and other security features for alerts and verification when withdrawals are initiated . . This should be an extra security measure and optional.
Other way to prevent hackers from stealing lot of money is to build some sort of network of platforms on bitcoin blockchain for reversing transactions. Ofcourse this won't affect the irreversiblity of the bitcoin Blockchain. Another way is the use of multi signature address/wallet or escrow for withdrawing large amounts. This feature can be implemented on exchanges and can be compulsory or optional. Once activated, the exchange would request for multsig address when huge withdrawal is initiated. When the fund is in the address, it will take some time before the owner can be allowed full control of the fund. The address can be provided by the owner, or generated automatically when the feature is enabled or can be generated when signing up for new account on the exchange Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: MakeMoneyBtc on May 09, 2019, 10:34:11 PM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: acheampong64 on May 09, 2019, 10:39:01 PM This was the same thing that Binance CEO mentioned and it caused mayhem in the whole space. Nevertheless, I think personally that blockchain is smart this way and should be allowed to be so. Fact is that, for crypto and blockchain to be very different from the normal fiat we know, we should have these exceptional features. Binance isn't the first exchange to be hacked and honestly many people have experienced worse. We all need to be careful and cautious so we don't fall as victims for anyone.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: maxreish on May 10, 2019, 07:30:22 AM That's the saddest part in cryptocurrency. Each successful transactions is irreversible and that is the weakness as you have mentioned when the transactions are meant in some illegal purposes like scams, hacking issues. Once it was settled, we can not do something about it. It can only be refunded by a person if you know him personally. Unfortunately, there isn't any device to returned the amount or to get the transactions invalid.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: talkbitcoin on May 10, 2019, 08:07:15 AM the irreversible transaction feature was introduced to bitcoin by Satoshi in order to solve a very serious issue that everyone using the old payment systems have been facing for years and have led to millions of scams. that feature was charge back of systems such as Paypal.
right now bitcoin offers a strong security and another level of security specific to merchants who are receiving the payments and don't have to worry about it being reversed and the headaches of proving they were scammed to that centralized system. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Karamabit_209 on May 13, 2019, 09:25:23 AM I think it is a good thing. It makes us cautious on every transactions that we do. It makes us think about every decisions we do in payments. It is like gaming on a gaming site (https://vegascasino.io/casino/video-slots/durian-dynamite?utm_source=ccdd) where you have an asset or an advantage but you must be cautious on playing it because if you doesn't, it might give you the opposite, a disadvantage in the end.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: _Django05_ on May 13, 2019, 12:02:57 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Irreversible transactions were built into blockchain’s original design as a positive feature to address banks’ privilege of reversing transactions, even when the contract states that they were final. But these features are a problem for many people. Most people are used to relying on the reputation of the the 2nd party to decide whether or not to send bitcoins to. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Nnuego on June 30, 2019, 02:04:07 PM That's the main reason you should always keep your private key safe and be mindful of whatever you type or send. Once you click send,there's no irreversible of transaction. So be care and crosscheck before carrying any transaction
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: fiulpro on June 30, 2019, 02:09:48 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Isn't it like a mindful safer option ?? If this same thing started working for banks and stuff they will start using it to do frauds instead of preventing them. It's people you are talking about ; they will use it for bad practices first and foremost and then that irreversible scams and frauds you are talking about is something that we can avoid by personally checking thoroughly everything. Also we have to click like 3 confirms to send our coins , we could stop for every and then see everything again. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: hatshepsut93 on June 30, 2019, 02:24:28 PM Merchants don't like the chargeback features, because it can be abused against them, but for users this is a pretty good thing. But Bitcoin will never have this feature, because they all require centralization - unless someone solves it in a decentralized manner, just like Saotshi solved the problem of how to create decentralized electronic currency.
So, for now this is just how Bitcoin is, and if you want to protect yourself from scammers, you need to escrow all your deals. Just because Bitcoin was made to remove intermediaries, doesn't mean that you should avoid them all the time, the point of Bitcoin is that it gave us a choice. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: YuginKadoya on June 30, 2019, 03:28:14 PM I guess the real solution in this matter is just prevention, We can always related to the saying that prevention and better than cure. And you are right there are no irreversible thing when you send bitcoin or another cryptocurrency to other wallets available, Well, I am saying these things because now I guess all you need to do is to double check your amount and the wallet you will need to send it because there is no undo button on this platforms transaction, I guess this was included for certain protection I guess.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Rufsilf on June 30, 2019, 03:51:12 PM That's the main reason you should always keep your private key safe and be mindful of whatever you type or send. Once you click send,there's no irreversible of transaction. So be care and crosscheck before carrying any transaction Exactly, we already know that once we click sent then there's no way for it to be traced back and reverse hence as a responsible investor we should make sure all the information are correct and before we make transactions we also have to make sure it is not a scam because if it is then you can't do anything to get it back unless if the other person will get it to you. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: coolcoinz on June 30, 2019, 03:59:31 PM I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Reversibility is also a weakness and you can see a good example of this in paypal chargeback scams. Now, the important part is to see which of these two are more annoying for the end user. We are used to the banking system and being able to call for help to the higher power whenever something goes wrong, therefore irreversible transactions will be a burden. IMO it's a matter of getting used to. A matter of perspective.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: valentin68 on June 30, 2019, 04:02:56 PM The strength of the Bitcoin is that every transaction is registered on the blockchain. That is everyone has a proof of that transaction and of the value of the transaction when it has been done. No one can come and say, I have given you the money, or I have given you 10 USD, please give me the change to this money, when in reality he has given nothing.
Then the weakness of Bitcoin is the confirmation time. There are necessary 3 confirmations for the money to arrive. 3 confirmations take from 15 minutes to 1 hour. When you send money with PayPal they arrive in 30 seconds. Another strength of the bitcoin is that you can go with the Bitcoin to the Bitcoin ATM and withdraw it to cash. To withdraw money from PayPal you have to send the money to a card (or to a bank account) and this takes 2 or 3 days. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: finaleshot2016 on June 30, 2019, 04:04:54 PM I guess the real solution in this matter is just prevention, ~ The other one is controlling, you need to control your actions and think to secure your money in the wallet. Prevention and control is the key to every situation that we're facing. I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Same goes with me, It's not actually a weakness because it's normal for a digital platform to be secured. If the process is reversible then we can bypass that easily and do some tricks to abuse the system. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: lepbagong on June 30, 2019, 04:23:39 PM With the convenience that can be returned from hacking or its own mistakes, finally it cannot distinguish the advantages of bitcoin. Bitcoin has advantages that are different from others and it is actually a comparison of the others.
careful attention and care is needed to make it happen. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Mike Mayor on June 30, 2019, 04:24:16 PM This is why you use buyer protection when shopping with bitcoin. If I make a transfer from my bank I can't reverse it either. I have had refunds twice paid to me in bitcoins because I trade with reputable websites.
The method of pay doesn't matter. Btw you only looking at things from one side. You forget the side of the merchant selling goods. A merchant doesn't want people reversing payments and rightfully slow. Once a deal is done it is done. Unless you want to return something. If you dealing with place you might not get your bitcoin back then it will be that way for any payment method. I guess the real solution in this matter is just prevention, ~ The other one is controlling, you need to control your actions and think to secure your money in the wallet. Prevention and control is the key to every situation that we're facing. I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Same goes with me, It's not actually a weakness because it's normal for a digital platform to be secured. If the process is reversible then we can bypass that easily and do some tricks to abuse the system. Just make sure you make your transactions in the right state of mind as well. Thus avoiding silly costly mistakes. I use a separate spending wallet with a qr scanner to pay for things with. This way I know I can never lose more then what is in that wallet. The other wallet is my ledger and savings wallet. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: osahorc on June 30, 2019, 04:42:49 PM I am new here
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: imstillthebest on June 30, 2019, 04:50:33 PM I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Reversibility is also a weakness and you can see a good example of this in paypal chargeback scams. i thought chargebacks or reversible payments can help us return our money when we were got scammed . its rarely been used on hacking because they will be caught since regular payment methods such as paypal are not anonymous as when compared to cryptocurrencies . ireversibility can be considered as a weakness of bitcoin because once we got scammed there is no way to trace the scammers and get the money back . Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: spadormie on June 30, 2019, 04:54:14 PM Bitcoin is truly irreversible. I have a story regarding this. I suppose to send someone a .045 bitcoin. I put it on a wrong address. Sadly, that's so worth it right now. It's just sad that once you click send, there's no way to get it back. And there's another one, my friend wants to join an investment on ICX I think with me, but he sent his bitcoin to a different address. Sadly, that was .1 btc yikes.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: seoincorporation on June 30, 2019, 04:56:31 PM Bitcoin and most of the altcoins are irreversible because that's the blockchain nature, but we have seen some scenarios where a massive hack makes the blockchain go back to recover the lost coins, this happened with ETH and the DAO hack, where tons of coins were lost and 89% of users get agree about make a hardfork on the block 1920000th (20th July 2016).
So, we could take this as a lesson, if some bug or exploit comes and try to kill bitcoin, we always can move back in the blockchain to fix the issue, and this is like traveling back in time. Source: https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/guides/the-dao-the-hack-the-soft-fork-and-the-hard-fork/ Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: pixie85 on June 30, 2019, 07:24:30 PM I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Reversibility is also a weakness and you can see a good example of this in paypal chargeback scams. i thought chargebacks or reversible payments can help us return our money when we were got scammed . its rarely been used on hacking because they will be caught since regular payment methods such as paypal are not anonymous as when compared to cryptocurrencies . ireversibility can be considered as a weakness of bitcoin because once we got scammed there is no way to trace the scammers and get the money back . The trick is not to get scammed in the first place. It's much easier to scam people who think they can always reverse the payment. Why should they even spend time to research the party they're doing business with. Why should they ask about colateral? Smart people will get fake bank accounts and withdraw from ATM before you can file your complaint. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Naughty Princess on June 30, 2019, 09:52:23 PM I think it is a good thing. It makes us cautious on every transactions that we do. It makes us think about every decisions we do in payments. It is like gaming on a gaming site (https://vegascasino.io/casino/video-slots/durian-dynamite?utm_source=ccdd) where you have an asset or an advantage but you must be cautious on playing it because if you doesn't, it might give you the opposite, a disadvantage in the end. The irreversibility makes the transaction won't lose as long as it is the correct address because you cannot cancel it once it is process. You really have to be cautious before you take an action because it is for your own good and not for others. I do not see it as the weakness because we are responsible enough to be carefully used online transactions.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: miropp on June 30, 2019, 10:06:07 PM I dont know whether it is possible to create some kind of system that would help people affected by fraud. That would be helpful. But on the other hand, it's against the rules of crypto. After all, its irreversibility makes crypto very popular among those who want to feel financial freedom.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Ucy on June 30, 2019, 10:26:48 PM The irreversibility or immutability is a great feature. It is one of the most important (if not the most important) feature of blockchain.
Exchanges could just build a reversible system for their customers and let bitcoin remain immutable Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Ranly123 on June 30, 2019, 11:10:33 PM Your right, Bitcoin is both strength and weakness. It could be the strength that would raise our moral when prices is favorable on our side. It could also be a weakness when we became greedy but when the price drops down, that's when frustration kick in.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: FlightyPouch on June 30, 2019, 11:15:55 PM The irreversibility or immutability is a great feature. It is one of the most important (if not the most important) feature of blockchain. Exchanges could just build a reversible system for their customers and let bitcoin remain immutable Is this possible? I mean in terms of blockchain that will be impossible, but how can those exchanges make that work? I am a fan of local exchange and I am using it for a while now. The transactions are fast and with that, I don't think they will allow irreversibility of these transactions since there is a lot of warning to always check the address, we should always do that. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: jake zyrus on July 01, 2019, 02:03:08 AM Bitcoin was made with it, being irreversible. And it could be both a strength and a weakness of it. But since it was made that way, it's good if it stays that way. The only thing you can do is to make sure you're sending it correctly. Don't just send your bitcoin to anyone if you don't want to get scammed. Every transaction we send, we're also responsible for it. So better to be always careful.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Dondont on July 01, 2019, 02:12:23 AM Bitcoin does not have a central authority that control it activities and that is one of the advantage and also the disadvantage of decentralization, unlike the faint paper money where the bank can make refound back to the sender in the case of wrong sending or frauds where the found still remains in the receiver account and it part of the double spending mechanism. But bitcoin don't have this feature and before a blockchain development that will carter for this will be in place it will take a long time from now, may be when bitcoin get regulated that can happen but until then bitcoin transactions is just base on p2p no middle man. But when we practice it directly, then unconsciously or inevitably we must still use paper money, not bitcoin. Both of them still have complementary points Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: NathanJB on July 01, 2019, 03:10:17 AM The fact that Bitcoin transactions are irreversible makes it both good and bad, a hassle and a security feature. While it makes confirmed transactions final and unchangeable, which is good, it is also a huge problem if you have put a wrong address. That means it makes transactions well-thought of, properly ironed out, negotiated thoroughly, in fact double-checked, before finally sealing it into the blockchain. It is an inherent feature of Bitcoin. And I don't think it has to be changed.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Dreamchaser21 on July 01, 2019, 03:16:38 AM Even fiat and gold are irreversible in many ways. Indeed, bitcoin is not perfect that's why altcoins are created i guess for that purpose and we can't really see this technology to run without having nay problem. If you do a mistake on your transactions then you must accept that its irreversible even if they hack you, no on can give that money back to you under the blockchain technology. We have to be more open for more improvements, we should not criticize every development like the adoption of many companies. Bitcoin was created with multiple functions and it's just disappointing somehow that we notice its weaknesses more than its strengths when in fact, it is just visible when being used in an illegal way. We should accept the fact that Bitcoin itself wasn't created perfectly and it's still on the process of improvement so it is just for us to deal with these lapses. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: waynechong1995 on July 01, 2019, 04:04:37 AM It was designed to do so, once that transaction is broadcast-ed and verified things are certain. Its particularly 'bad' for most of the industry use cases where error is prone and rollbacks are essential for recovery plans. Yet bitcoin itself is money/assets, not banks, the network itself doesn't have any oracle layer to govern these transaction and i would say this feature fits correctly for money. Scams and those human traits to get wealthy by exploiting others, much like slaves on the old days. Dealing with these problems should be come from people protecting their private keys, having multiple addresses to safe-guard themselves
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Kakmakr on July 01, 2019, 05:46:20 AM The conundrum is as follows, once you allow a reversal of a specific transaction, you destroy the immutability of Bitcoin and that is one of it's strongest features. These decisions are easy in a centralized network, because you have a centralized authority to make those decisions and we have seen what that type of authority can do. <PayPal misusing their powers>
So, take away immutability and you will take away trust in the network and people will stop using it. >:( Bitcoin is based on very strong principles and immutability is one of the strongest features that must not be compromised. ;) Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: DPrillio on July 01, 2019, 01:19:20 PM It was designed to do so, once that transaction is broadcast-ed and verified things are certain. Its particularly 'bad' for most of the industry use cases where error is prone and rollbacks are essential for recovery plans. Yet bitcoin itself is money/assets, not banks, the network itself doesn't have any oracle layer to govern these transaction and i would say this feature fits correctly for money. Scams and those human traits to get wealthy by exploiting others, much like slaves on the old days. Dealing with these problems should be come from people protecting their private keys, having multiple addresses to safe-guard themselves Yes, bitcoin transaction on blockchain is irreversible unless it will be send back to you by the person whom you send first and that is one of the blockchain's security so there is no room for mistakes and that is the opportunity that online theft wants, as the fact that blockchain is having no central control and all transaction was done node by node and digitally over the internet.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: kerneal on July 01, 2019, 05:04:55 PM Hello to all the Bitcoin merchants out there, you don’t have to drop Bitcoin as a payment method anymore. We fixed the problem and launched Bitcoin Cash. We’re ready! I When I was a Beginner I found Credits project easy, professional traders will find it comprehensive
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: minersday on July 01, 2019, 09:35:37 PM In as much that Bitcoin transactions are not reversible, it has more advantages than its weakness. But I believe a solution will be made available as the crypto world develops as years pass by..
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Aptekary on July 01, 2019, 09:50:18 PM Perhaps you are right, but today it is Bitcoin instability that affects its practical application in the real world. The value of bitcoin today is precisely that everyone expects to make extra profit.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: libert19 on July 02, 2019, 03:04:34 AM You can roll back the BTC transactions with 51% miners consensus, and when binance was hacked a while ago, CZ had actually thought to do it, but didn't proceed.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Sithara007 on July 02, 2019, 03:35:40 AM There are a lot of reversible payments methods available (like PayPal and credit cards) and anyone interested in such a system should use those. I never use PayPal, because I had very bad experience with them in the past. There was one occasion when my account got frozen and it took almost 4 months to remove the restrictions. And in another instance, one of the payments that I received was reversed without any reason, and again it took many months to get the reimbursement.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: pooya87 on July 02, 2019, 03:58:30 AM The conundrum is as follows, once you allow a reversal of a specific transaction, you destroy the immutability of Bitcoin and that is one of it's strongest features. These decisions are easy in a centralized network, because you have a centralized authority to make those decisions and we have seen what that type of authority can do. <PayPal misusing their powers> So, take away immutability and you will take away trust in the network and people will stop using it. >:( Bitcoin is based on very strong principles and immutability is one of the strongest features that must not be compromised. ;) exactly. i have seen newcomers usually neglect the importance of immutability, specially in some cases of altcoins that performed some sort of roll back and nullified their immutability and turned into a shitcoin overnight. coins like ethereum and bcash have have already lost that characteristic and that is why nobody trusts them anymore and that is why they have no value, their price is high only because their centralization is pumping them and preventing their demise. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Malvika_sitlani on July 02, 2019, 08:01:15 AM It is better if we can think of the ways to stop Hacks or fraud. instead of thinking of a pros and cons of a worth technology.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Mike Mayor on July 03, 2019, 07:44:08 PM I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Reversibility is also a weakness and you can see a good example of this in paypal chargeback scams. i thought chargebacks or reversible payments can help us return our money when we were got scammed . its rarely been used on hacking because they will be caught since regular payment methods such as paypal are not anonymous as when compared to cryptocurrencies . ireversibility can be considered as a weakness of bitcoin because once we got scammed there is no way to trace the scammers and get the money back . You forget bout the other way around. What if you are a vendor and people are making charge backs? Bitcoin is truly irreversible. I have a story regarding this. I suppose to send someone a .045 bitcoin. I put it on a wrong address. Sadly, that's so worth it right now. It's just sad that once you click send, there's no way to get it back. And there's another one, my friend wants to join an investment on ICX I think with me, but he sent his bitcoin to a different address. Sadly, that was .1 btc yikes. That really sucks. You need to check your address is correct and match it. I check on average 5 times to make perfectly sure. I also get up and have a walk or have some water or something then come back and complete the transfer. I do this because it allows me time to think and realize if the address or amount is wrong. I like the irreversibility and don't see it as a weakness. Reversibility is also a weakness and you can see a good example of this in paypal chargeback scams. i thought chargebacks or reversible payments can help us return our money when we were got scammed . its rarely been used on hacking because they will be caught since regular payment methods such as paypal are not anonymous as when compared to cryptocurrencies . ireversibility can be considered as a weakness of bitcoin because once we got scammed there is no way to trace the scammers and get the money back . The trick is not to get scammed in the first place. It's much easier to scam people who think they can always reverse the payment. Why should they even spend time to research the party they're doing business with. Why should they ask about colateral? Smart people will get fake bank accounts and withdraw from ATM before you can file your complaint. Yes this is exactly why I say KYC and all that is useless. People who scam with fiat just make fake accounts or get someone else to open an account or perhaps even steal someone's identity or something. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Jeremycoin on July 03, 2019, 08:27:56 PM I myself have experienced the downside of this irreversible system. I was looking to buy a video game key through some websites and found this particular website a quite good deal. Unfortunately, I didn't really check on the status of the website, and it turned out that the website had been long in no service. Bitcoin had been sent, and I got nothing. I gotta admit that it sucks. A lot. Given that it was really a good amount of money. But what can I say, this is the thing that I have to endure if I want to keep using Bitcoin as a payment system. I don't see it as Bitcoin's fault, because it is technically my fault. Did I wish that Bitcoin was reversible? At some point, I did, but then I realized that it would tear apart the whole system. So, I think it is best this way.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Lalafell on October 04, 2019, 11:05:44 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Astvile on October 04, 2019, 11:35:29 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Eugenar on October 06, 2019, 01:26:09 AM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Basically the essence of blockchain will not be present if we will going to have a feature than might do the refund for a lost coin. It was called block, and it is fixed, once the transaction is completed, it's done. The only way I think that can lead us to the safe ground is our responsibility for each of our holdings and assets. Think before you click, is a line that we should always remember whenever we are sending or creating transactions of bitcoin and other cryptocurrency. Another way, is to secure our wallet since the best cure is prevention, we should prevent our selves to be vulnerable. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: doomistake on October 06, 2019, 02:36:34 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? It is a hopeless case scenario, even though you find the hacker (not in person), in this forum for example, you find who amongst us here hacked your accounts and stole your funds, but there is no guarantee that he will send it back to you, especially if it is a big catch, he will choose to be red tag than to send back to you the coins he stole. The other thing that I don't like cryptocurrency if you accidentally send you bitcoin into a Ethereum wallet and etc. and it is all gone. But this teaches us to be responsible and don't make fast decisions. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: HarmonyA on October 06, 2019, 08:32:45 PM Your ideology is right. Cryptocurrency should be reversible after been sent, even if it should take 10 to 30 minutes open period to undo a sent crypto, that would help to build to build trust. This will also help in calling back a transaction if sent to the wrong address.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: alexsandria on October 07, 2019, 12:28:44 AM Well its irreversibility, the reason why it is that because of the nature of bitcoin. This irreversibility decreases the possibility of abuse, because there are some customers who cancels their transactions just because of change of mind and the seller is the one who suffered on that situation. Maybe to prevent fraud, one should be extremely cautious in buying. I mean, even using fiat you also need to be extremely cautious.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: blckhawk on October 07, 2019, 02:58:46 AM Having someone responsible to handle thefts and scams will no longer be different to centralized systems such as banks. There's not much you can do since no regulations are imposed in cryptocurrencies, therefore no action could be made in case of thefts/scams since no one would enforce it.
Make a governing body, but agree to terms like KYC policy, etc. Have a system where ICO's and other crypto related projects undergo contract signings to ensure consumer protection. All of which would change the idea of it being decentralized. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: DabsPoorVersion on October 07, 2019, 03:06:51 AM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? It is a hopeless case scenario, even though you find the hacker (not in person), in this forum for example, you find who amongst us here hacked your accounts and stole your funds, but there is no guarantee that he will send it back to you, especially if it is a big catch, he will choose to be red tag than to send back to you the coins he stole. The other thing that I don't like cryptocurrency if you accidentally send you bitcoin into a Ethereum wallet and etc. and it is all gone. But this teaches us to be responsible and don't make fast decisions. It is our responsible to secure our wallet and when it comes to having a transaction, we should check the correct wallet where we are sending our funds, making a mistake by sending bitcoin to an eth wallet or any other kind of wallet will be our own mistake. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Darooghe on October 07, 2019, 03:39:16 AM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. Actually It isn't, It is just hard to reverse. In a few cases after disasters the bitcoin blockchain has been reversed up to 50 blocks worth of transactions in the early days of bitcoin, and altcoins that use the same technology and code as bitcoin have also had specific transactions reversed by adding special rules to the code to block specific transactions, in cases where a majority of the entire alt was stolen. As well as 51% attacks reversing transactions on smaller coins. Bitcoin is only difficult to reverse, requiring some majority agreement that it should happen, it is not impossible or even difficult at a conceptual level to do so.But the fact that they are irreversible is a huge part of the value proposition behind bitcoin. If some central entity could reverse, withhold, freeze and otherwise mess with transactions, bitcoin wouldn't really be different from the existing solutions (Paypal, Visa, wire transfers etc). another thing is that bitcoin is probably not very useful to people who don't trust themselves. Bitcoin requires you to educate yourself and take responsibility for your finances but it also empowers you in ways a centralized system never could. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Dabs on October 07, 2019, 03:36:27 PM CZ of Binance mentioned something about a roll back. It was met with criticism. We're talking about 7000 BTC here. In the end, his exchange covered the losses. All your funds are SAFU.
So if your transaction is smaller than 7000 BTC and you are not one of the world's biggest exchanges in terms of volume, and the transaction in question has more than 1 or 2 confirmations, good luck getting it reversed. Not gonna happen. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: pixie85 on October 07, 2019, 04:43:07 PM No I don't wish that bitcoin was reversible. It teaches people responsibility. We are used to throwing money around and then demanding that people and companies pay us back.
In reality all money should be like cash. You give it to someone they can put it in their pocket and run away with it. You have to always remember about it. The biggest weakness of this system is that people are careless and there will always be a group that gets burned. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: jakoylantern on October 07, 2019, 05:25:42 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? I agree that it is one of the disadvantages of bitcoin for me. But this is impossible especially if you get hacked and take all you coins because bitcoin doesn't have any authority to control this kind of activities ( scams, frauds, hacks, etc.) that's the reason why some ppl don't want to use bitcoin especially in payment systems that don't have an escrow. Also, that's the other reason why banks can't truly embrace cryptocurrencies. :) Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: bitbunnny on October 07, 2019, 05:36:48 PM To my opinion the fact that Bitcoin is irreversible is more advantage than disadvantage.
Yes, sometimes we might wish to pull back transactions because we changed our minds or because we made a mistake, or maybe our coins are stolen but that is smaller problem compared to possibilities of different manipulations and frauds if Bitcoin was reversible. I guess everyone has already accepted irreversibility and got used to that. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: teosanru on October 07, 2019, 05:53:48 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Zeke_23 on October 07, 2019, 07:37:11 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Murat on October 08, 2019, 04:48:36 AM Obviously, This one is very harmful and unrecoverable loss of this platform, earlier of this year, I made a payment through a BTC address instead of Litecoin address so I Instantly lost my payment for a silly mistake, if this thing would not be fixed then the acceptance and popularity of Bitcoin will not go up in the future. Of course, there should be an alternate reversible system but it has not still, I know Bitcoin has a lot of potentiality regarding trading and holding but also some barrier which makes this system too hazy, not only that but also this type of inconvenience would bring a negative mindset towards this platform. Everything is getting progressed and developed with the change of time, So here something should be added for the shake of its credibility and acceptance more and more.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Sithara007 on October 08, 2019, 07:05:28 AM A reversible transaction doesn't always mean that victims of scams are going to get compensated. From what I have seen in PayPal and Ebay, this option is now so misused, that it is used more by the scammers to con unsuspecting users than vice versa. In PayPal, there were incidents when other users reversed their payments even after I shipped my stuff to them. I got the funds in the end, but had to spend a lot of time and effort.
And an irreversible transaction doesn't always mean that the money is lost for ever if some mistake is made. I have seen several times, when users returned the coins to the senders after realizing that the transaction was made by a mistake. But it depends on the individual. If he or she is thick enough, then the coins may not be returned and there is nothing that you could do about it. The best thing to do is to avoid any mistakes, so that you don't need to depend on the mercy of other users. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: fullhdpixel on October 09, 2019, 06:47:04 AM Well its irreversibility, the reason why it is that because of the nature of bitcoin. This irreversibility decreases the possibility of abuse, because there are some customers who cancels their transactions just because of change of mind and the seller is the one who suffered on that situation. Maybe to prevent fraud, one should be extremely cautious in buying. I mean, even using fiat you also need to be extremely cautious. It would have been a very great disaster if bitcoin was reversible, and I think there is a difference between cancelling a transaction and reversing it, there was a time that in my country, the bank made is possible to recall a transaction after 5 minutes that it has been showed as approved, which the receiver could even see that the transaction had gone, but like you said here, many people started reversing the transaction.I have been duped because of that, so I think bitcoin not being able to reverse bitcoin is really one of the greatest features of bitcoin, but there should be opportunity to quickly cancel transaction before it goes in case one discovers that it is going to the wrong address which the possibility of it getting refunded is extremely low. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: magneto on October 09, 2019, 11:39:31 AM I personally think that all reversible payment methods are flawed from the beginning, and is a big part why Paypal has such a bad reputation. The benefits that a reversible payment protocol brings is far outweighed by the negatives that come with it, in my opinion.
Sure, BTC's irreversibility means that victims of scams may not be able to recoup their losses, but on the flip side, the fungibility of the currency being transacted is vastly improved, sellers no longer have to worry about chargebacks, and it essentially encourages prudent decision making much more than a payment method that you know you can chargeback later on down the line. I'd rather take an irreversible currency any day, because I know it's much more desirable. The benefits simply outweigh the detriments, again. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Sohyun Park on October 09, 2019, 12:12:15 PM I think irreversible property is required and if some address is proven as fraud then the address should be banned for withdrawal and the funds in the address can be given to the person how took the effort to report the fraud and prove it.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: minersday on October 09, 2019, 12:12:36 PM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. This irreversible nature of cryptocurrency is one of the weakness of it that make people to find it difficult to adopt and use cryptocurrencies. In as much that this is weakness, it is also a strength because it makes users to be more careful whenever they are either sending or receiving funds. It also makes users keep their private keys safe from any third party since transactions made are not reversible, the third party can easily steal your funds once they get a hold of your private key.... Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: bigmick44 on October 10, 2019, 05:35:30 PM As you said, the irreversibility of the transactions is both a strength and a weakness, but in my opinion it is mostly positive. The fact that there is no "undo" button means that one must execute a transaction with caution, and when we are talking about for example BTC transaction, they are usually large. The need to be careful is something that we are losing currently in the financial world with everything so easily reversed (mostly flat-currency-transactions). Of course, if there is a fraud this would mean lost money, but in most cases it is the users fault for not making their background research. Do you think otherwise?
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Ucy on October 10, 2019, 06:29:59 PM I guess you should buy more from people/websites you trust or use escrow when buying things from people you don't trust.. Both the former and the latter could be based on reputations from solid score system that can't be easily abused.
I think reversible transactions will eventually be possible but I prefer it is done on sidechain or seperate platforms. The main chain should remain irreversible Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: STT on October 10, 2019, 06:52:14 PM Sounds a bit like sending an email but then you want to rescind that email. Most of the time this isnt exactly possible however in some cases it can be possible. I like the idea of delayed send, schduled send and also the case where you can remove it if unread on the other side but I think that requires a specialist setup. The point being for BTC it would have to be by arrangement and agreement between both parties and possibly this would be part of escrow type movement of capital.
I can see no reason why it should not be possible for a kind of safeguard to be built into payment systems where refund is feasible to some extent, but this would have to be part of a regular payment system. The advantages to allowing this possibility is to raise confidence and resolution in disputes should they occur. Its not exactly a basic function of the Bitcoin blockchain itself but for consumer type operations I think it should be a thing at least some company or association is aiming to feature for consumers on their payment or shopping platform (that is using Bitcoin). Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Immakillya on October 10, 2019, 11:55:59 PM Irreversible transactions feature can be a helpful function also. Because reversible transactions can be used for scams or any fraudulent actions. For example, you bought items from online store which accepts Bitcoin or any crypto. The transaction is already paid and ready on the way for delivery but suddenly the customer decided to reverse the transaction. That will cause trouble. There's a reason why irreversible transactions is being implemented. They will never implemet that for no reasons. So do transactions at your own discretion. You should be always aware of what you're doing. Check the address, the amount, the fee for transactions before sending the funds. That way you'll never be in trouble.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: BlackFor3st on October 11, 2019, 01:56:47 AM One of the most important feature of cryptocurrency is its being irreversible. One the coin is sent, the only way for it to be back to the sender is if the receiver will do the same thing in reverse. Now, in cases of hacks, scams and frauds, it means that you better forget what you already lost as there is no way for you to recover the lost coins. In other words, once you click the send button there is no turning back. I know that a lot of us are actually considering this a major advantage of Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency for that matter because unlike PayPal there can be no refund requests to happen. Therefore when you are a victim of a theft, expect no one to be able to help you in recovering the coins. As one author said it, the bitcoin genie cannot be put back into the blockchain bottle. I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? This is how unique bitcoin is and it didn't devise any special technology to counter any hacks or frauds so everyone has a freedom to do with their assets. This is only one of disadvantages of bitcoin but because of it, we were given the freedom also to use our assets wisely and securely if possible but for the black hat hackers. This is their big opportunity to earn a good profit if they can steal without being notice by the authority. But I love the current bitcoin right now,even if it has disadvantages like irreversible transaction but it has plenty of advantages also. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Naughty Princess on October 11, 2019, 12:21:45 PM As you said, the irreversibility of the transactions is both a strength and a weakness, but in my opinion it is mostly positive. The fact that there is no "undo" button means that one must execute a transaction with caution, and when we are talking about for example BTC transaction, they are usually large. The need to be careful is something that we are losing currently in the financial world with everything so easily reversed (mostly flat-currency-transactions). Of course, if there is a fraud this would mean lost money, but in most cases it is the users fault for not making their background research. Do you think otherwise? That makes responsible in every transactions and making sure that it is correct before you click. Being irreversible can secure from any fraud and tripping of the accounts. Though being irreversible wont help when you need to cancel or wanting to change, which has risk to lost it.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Upgate on October 11, 2019, 12:30:42 PM Bitcoin or cryptocurrency not being able to be reversed when sent has something to do with the decentralisation of cryptocurrency, once an action is taken its hard to recover, this is an advantage with disadvantage but if the sender can make sure they are about to do the correct transcation then the disadvantages are cut down
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Drai on November 06, 2019, 06:34:27 AM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? I want to ask you a question.. if an effective means or special technology was deviced to ensure that hacked accounts would be reversed, who would have the power to reverse the funds? A particular set of people or or every single person can have the power to reverse funds? If it's left in the hands of one person, then anybody would start reversing the funds of anybody they don't like, or even sell their coins to people and reverse it back when they have been paid, when it's left in the hands of a few people, it would be a centralised feature in a perfectly decentralised blockchain infrastructure and would put too much power in the hands of a few people.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: clickerz on November 06, 2019, 06:53:27 AM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? I want to ask you a question.. if an effective means or special technology was deviced to ensure that hacked accounts would be reversed, who would have the power to reverse the funds? A particular set of people or or every single person can have the power to reverse funds? If it's left in the hands of one person, then anybody would start reversing the funds of anybody they don't like, or even sell their coins to people and reverse it back when they have been paid, when it's left in the hands of a few people, it would be a centralised feature in a perfectly decentralised blockchain infrastructure and would put too much power in the hands of a few people.@CryptoBry even if its possible to reverse a bitcoin transaction still its not a favorable one.It will just make the system inefficient and slow. In cases of hacks and fraud,at present no solution yet and you have to fork the whole system i order to recover which is a big hassle. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: 7788bitcoin on November 06, 2019, 07:06:29 AM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? If the technology is helping in reversing the transaction then there will be a major security flaw in the network itself as anyone could manipulate with the coins in your wallet and if there is an uncertainty in that regard the trust that is built by the network will end and we do not need and the developers will not come up with something that will destroy the base of the entire network which is trust without a centralized trust. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: EdvinZ on November 06, 2019, 07:38:08 AM You are right, for all the advantages of decentralization, the lack of the possibility of a refund deters many people from using cryptocurrencies. I think that those developers who will create a blockchain with the possibility of revoking a transaction will achieve the success of their project. But, I believe that with the full decentralization of the project, a refund is impossible. This function is possible if the coin will at least have a Central authority responding to requests for a refund.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Shasha80 on November 06, 2019, 08:25:53 AM Problems regarding the nature of bitcoin which irreversible when sending coins to wallet or exchanges addresses. It is always interesting
to discuss. Because turned into pros and cons in cryptocurrency community. Some agree because it is part of decentralization or do not agree because that is become a bitcoin weakness that needs to be fixed. But in my opinion just let bitcoin be like that let it be interesting characteristics of bitcoin. Even if you want to find a solution it will not be able to because bitcoin cannot be controlled. Therefore always be careful when sending coins and always check again before sending coins. So there are no mistakes sending.Indeed initially we became more troublesome, but if we are used to it will make us more disciplined. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Palider on November 06, 2019, 08:43:30 AM I am wondering, can we not devise an effective and special technology that can be utilize in case of hacks or frauds? Given the advances of cryptocurrency and the blockchain we are experiencing right now, is it even possible? This is a problem with Bitcoin because its transaction is irreversible and we can no longer recover our bitcoins stolen by hackers. And so far this problem has not been solved and it may not be solved as bitcoin is not controlled by anyone. So if it is possible that bitcoin creator Satoshi Nakamoto is still alive it can be paid attention and solved.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: StayFly on November 06, 2019, 07:53:02 PM This topic has been discussed so many times. ;D This guys says it all. Bitcoin transactions are supposed to be irreversible and secure since PayPal transactions are reversible. The bitcoin transactions don't have to be reversible to avoid getting hidden charge backs from the companies we buy services from. For someone like me, I always feel safe and happy when someone buys my product with bitcoin because there would be not disputes. I hate when someone buys something from me, instead of contacting me then they go ahead to create dispute on PayPal, that really annoying - scammers do that. Irreversible transactions are a huge advantage ,if you compare crypto to the paypal scam.In PayPal,you have to rely on the mercy of their dispute resolution process and the mercy of your customers. Bank transactions are supposed to be reversible,but that doesn't stop all the credit card thefts. ;D The only way to protect ourselves against hacks/scams is to keep our passwords safe. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Reosta_ on November 06, 2019, 08:55:10 PM There is always a good and bad side of a technology. Of course, in a situation like being hacked you won't be able to turn it back. But I think the irreversibility feature of Bitcoin transactions is very good and useful.
Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: opkm1980 on November 06, 2019, 10:23:15 PM I share your opinion on the fact that irreversible transactions are an advantage and also a disadvantage, I believe that greater control is possible, such as with centralized Exchanges and KYC, but privacy is lost and there are also restrictions, which perhaps can be done is to validate sites and accounts that give greater confidence, but there is no certainty that the other actor will act with transparency.
The best advice is to be quite careful before making a purchase decision or sending cryptocurrencies to a person or company. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Viscore on November 06, 2019, 10:23:54 PM There is always a good and bad side of a technology. Of course, in a situation like being hacked you won't be able to turn it back. But I think the irreversibility feature of Bitcoin transactions is very good and useful. The irreversibility of bitcoin will always be here until it exists. And because of that, we should be more cautious in doing our transactions rightly. We are all responsible for our own coins as well as with their safety and security. If our transactions will be hacked, then it won't be recover anymore so we should be more responsible for that so that hacking won't happen.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: hatshepsut93 on November 07, 2019, 04:44:25 AM Bank payments are reversible, but not always - banks are unlikely to bother reverting small amounts, and they can't return money if they were physically withdrawn. This is why most online marketplaces come with customer protection mechanisms by acting as escrow. And Bitcoin-based platforms have this too - I've personally used a bitcoin freelancing site that holds funds until the work is delivered and solves issues if any arise. Even decentralized platforms like Bisq have similar mechanisms. So, fraud protection with Bitcoin isn't too different from fiat.
Now, hacking and robbery are different things, but again, we can apply trusted third parties here to increase security. Some people will argue that they defeat the purpose of Bitcoin, but since those things are completely opt-in, it's within the rights of users to do with their coins as they please, including using custodial services. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: Memminger on November 07, 2019, 04:59:44 AM Bank payments are reversible, but not always - banks are unlikely to bother reverting small amounts, and they can't return money if they were physically withdrawn. This is why most online marketplaces come with customer protection mechanisms by acting as escrow. And Bitcoin-based platforms have this too - I've personally used a bitcoin freelancing site that holds funds until the work is delivered and solves issues if any arise. Even decentralized platforms like Bisq have similar mechanisms. So, fraud protection with Bitcoin isn't too different from fiat. Yep. Even though in Bitcoin they are eliminating the presence of banks in order for us to have financial freedom over our funds or assets if that’s what you categorized Bitcoin as, I still use third party to be middleman like escrow since its hard to trust a stranger who might no deliver the service(s) or product(s) that he/she promised which is very rampant in internet since we can’t physically see or interact with them.Now, hacking and robbery are different things, but again, we can apply trusted third parties here to increase security. Some people will argue that they defeat the purpose of Bitcoin, but since those things are completely opt-in, it's within the rights of users to do with their coins as they please, including using custodial services. I think that the desired security that we can get with our cryptocurrencies is attainable by purchasing a cold wallet like Trezor hence we don’t necessarily need those third party services. As long as you made the necessary precautions of not leaving any traces of your keys online nor in any devices.Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: coinfinger on November 08, 2019, 04:50:24 AM You are right, for all the advantages of decentralization, the lack of the possibility of a refund deters many people from using cryptocurrencies. I think that those developers who will create a blockchain with the possibility of revoking a transaction will achieve the success of their project. But, I believe that with the full decentralization of the project, a refund is impossible. This function is possible if the coin will at least have a Central authority responding to requests for a refund. I understand that no one is above mistake, but in a decentralized system, any of its user must really be extremely careful, especially in the aspect of sending coins to other people, we have to verify the coin before we send the money to the person and also we have to make use of most of the copy link that is always available when copying addresses, and secondly too, the sender must try everything possible to be sure too that the address being sent is the right one. The only way I think anyone has the right of sending an amount to a wrong account is when hackers have hacked the person’s account and it think this is where a reversed amount would have been very useful before the money gets confirmed, but now that the option is not available, there is nothing we can do, we just have to learn to deal with it. Title: Re: Bitcoin is irreversible: strength and weakness Post by: joinfree on November 08, 2019, 05:22:39 AM I remember when i once sent $150 worth of Bitcoin to a wrong address. How i wish there could have been a button either cancel the transaction or even call it back lol. That's a set back of bitcoin for sure which we cannot do much about it unless we work with alternatives. That's why some sites allow you to save addresses so that anytime you are sending funds to yourself..you might already saved a genuine address other than having to generate a new one all together. This prevents issues of wrong transactions.
Regarding the situation with hacking, there is not much you can do but to protect yourself from them. Save your keys on an offline computer or better still get yourself a hardware wallet and that will be all. |
