Bitcoin Forum

The Blockchain and Cryptocurrency world is expanding on daily basis, we have see JP Morgan, Fidelity and even rumors of facebook, and now it is PayPal becoming part of the technology.
"We have teams clearly working on blockchain and cryptocurrency" This was said by PayPal CFO in an interview.

source: https://www.cryptoinformers.info/news/128-we-are-working-on-blockchain-and-cryptocurrency-paypal (https://www.cryptoinformers.info/news/128-we-are-working-on-blockchain-and-cryptocurrency-paypal)

This will mean a lot to crypto world.

And again they are developing something, but they don’t want to introduce ready-made products in order to control our funds and why are they better than any bank?

That' great news. This will have a big and good impact to the crypto that even PayPal are now that an tie up to cryptocurrency. This is a big news that may infuence other netizens to open their mind to accept to concept of crypto industry because all we know that crypto will help for the better life that we all want. And I think using crypto in PayPal is more convenient.

I guess they will come up with the same idea of ripple and jp morgan shit and introduce these as cryptocurrency. They will never leave the control of people's fund.

Thats a positive news in the crypto-space and I think it can drive the market in the positive territory. If that project will push through i can say that the huge development will follow from the said company and it can give the crypto-currency market a boost, more to come Paypal, Facebook, anything else hoping more company will adopt soon.

The guy told in the interview   and I don't think so, it's not really early, I think they are late and just want to join the bandwagon on those latecomers, they do not want to be left in the dark, because it is fast being adopted by big company, but it's very interesting on what will they come out in the cryptocurrency, I hope no more ICO.

Long back itself one among the founder of PayPal Peter Thiel mentioned in his statement, if he has known about the blockchain technology prior to the functional technology of PayPal he would've used the blockchain technology. This way what we see with this is an added information from one among the top person in the PayPal network.

I can not wait to PayPal add a feature to deposit using bitcoin or others cryptocurrencies.
because if they add it will reduce the activities of scammers who usually scam using PayPal

finally, more godd news appeared today, so maybe this is the one who make bitcoin price pump, hope this pasirve trend keep running until we face bullrun toward.

Some of the news has already announced yesterday that the bullrun has officially started, not sure about which office though  ;D However, I think Bitcoin will bounce till hitting $10k and later a correction will be there which probably pull bitcoin to $8k-$7k again.

Have you never thought that PayPal's steps to join Crypto can actually make crypto sink even further? we know that paypal is a large online transaction platform, while crypto is created to be an alternative that is easier than paypal, and when paypal joins now, it is not impossible crypto will be under the shadow of paypal.

wow if its really true the paypal join the game, I think it good move for paypal and really good news for everyone around the world crypto and extra option to do a transaction

Good information! The market is showing signs of recovery, Hopefully better in the near future. Blockchain is always the technology that companies want to apply!

Another good news to us, especially today when the market is full of pump up prices. we rarely see such great news coming 1 after another everyday. last time it was Facebook's unbaning the advertisement of cryptocurrencies. today paypal make its first move joining the innovative industry of blockchain. probably we will see another in the next days to come.

Its a good news indeed but I think its still experimental for Paypal since they will have to try it out one by one ,info is still limited though and we still don't know if they will build there own chain or use the available ones but all the same this is a good news

Interesting, if they make own coins, i think they should let people who use their service to buy over time bitcoin with paypal, but maybe this will not happen.

I doubt they will because they will come up with a centralized idea. However, it's not possible for the moment too. Paypal is a hassle for payment system for a while.

Well PayPal may have indicated interest in blockchain project but that will only add little or nothing to the market at all, because they are only coming to tap into the potential of blockchain and will develop they own project and not contributing to the existing projects such as bitcoin and the rest. One can figure that out when he said it too early for PayPal to adopt bitcoin when is already 10 years down the line already.

I see this as an indispensable thing, blockchain technology is a new and very potential technology, and big technology company will not want to ignore it.

I don't know how they will approach crypto, if they finally do, but I guess they will use a blockchain for internal processes or will create a wallet for people to use Bitcoin through their platform. I don't think they will create a centralized paypal coin since there would be no difference between that coin and paypal money, it would make no sense.

I would have been surprised if they had not been working on some sort of blockchain strategy since it is pretty obvious that the blockchain poses an existential threat to a business that has been built on handling online payments. Whether that strategy will be incorporating other coins into their currency options or creating their own blockchain remains to be seen.

Just an early announcement that they will take part on blockchain technology, and it doesn't mean they will really do it. I think they will have several research at first to ensure that their business will not be ruined by crypto volatilily. More over, this announcement is to make Paypal users stay with them as crypto can be a threat for them if they don't want to join crypto industry.

This is a great news for cryptocurrency and I believe it is a great help to encourage other establishments or organizations like paypal which is a company that facilitates payments between parties through online funds transfers.

If paypal also starts a wallet and payment service just like coinbase with all the options of deposit, withdraw and transfers i think that will be epic and will really huge for the adoption of cryptocurrencies as paypal is still the largest payment platform online.

in other words another centralized company token that is going to be useless and obsolete soon but first it will generate a ton of profit for that centralized company and increase their net-worth by a couple of millions.
in time all these companies will realize that in this particular scene (the cryptocurrency scene) there is no room for centralized cryptocurrencies and the only thing they can hope to get out of it is a short term profit.

Too bad my i cant retrieve my paypal verified account anymore. I does not have access to the email that i used on Paypal. But it is a good news Paypal is one of the best payment method that i used in the past when dealing transactions on mmorpg games that i played.

It is now clear that a lot of organizations, groups are industries are now considering adopting block chain technology, most especially from results that have been seen so far.
The mass adoption of cryptocurrency will be seen into effect not just only in private or joint organizations, but also in government functionaries.

Not all "blockchain/crypto" investments are directly creating a new coin. People keep hearing blockchain and thinking OH A NEW COIN but that doesn't how it works at all.

I am not saying that will not happen, it may very well happen but it may just be the worlds largest payment processor just trying to research a better and faster and even cheaper way of doing their own payment processing via blockchain that would help them do their work much better and even profit while dropping the fee which normally they wouldn't be capable of. That is why whenever you hear these huge companies and banks work towards blockchain don't assume it will be a new coin, it might be but it might just be blockchain works for faster and cheaper data transactions of financial holdings.

That doesn't tell anything and i hope they don't make an ico for their token.

Still, it would be nice to see if paypal uses blockchain.

Interesting, and if a cryptocurrency wallet is provided in a PayPal account, do they join the fiat balance, and will the rules be as tight as Paypal like now?

Because Paypal is a big business company, it will become the world influence of financial transactions.

Interesting stuff. I wonder how credible  the news source (financial yahoo) listed on the website is?
What could be the reason behind this? Could PayPal be trying to move from Centralized system to a public/private blockchain? Meaning they would have PayPal coin or something,?

Aw, this is a great idea. I hope they will have their cards in order to work with cryptocurrency simply and quickly. I think this company can do it. And if they make their coins, I think the cryptocurrency market will expand and it will be possible to pay online for goods using cryptocurrency.

 ;D PayPal - It will make the whole cryptocurrency much stronger.  The latest news tells us that world giants are coming to cryptocurrency. We must stock up bitcoin. With such news, it's clear why bitcoin is growing so fast.

 :) I hope they will exchange on the platform to convert cryptocurrency into money and pay on the Internet.

This news can bring to people to,continue mass adoption, because paypal,can know the important meaning this good news continue crypto currency to goes into,the top.

That's a good news, there are a lot of platforms that accepts payment through paypal, if paypal is going to have cryptocurrency to their business then more exposure and adoption will indeed happen in this field, let's see how it goes.

Using the system and adopt how things being done around crypto will be the beginning of good relations between paypal and this industry, it's good to know that they've shown now interest to integrate and make a good overview in regards to cater crypto market with their existing business.

what do you expect from giant payment provider. What many of them will do is to make use of the underlying technology which is the blockchain. Paypal will not adopt a decentralized nature of the blockchain but rather make use of the features that will affect their business positively. secure and reliable transaction processing at reduced cost come to mind. About transaction speed, I think paypal uses technology that process transaction at speed higher than all the blockchain algorithm option

there are many competitors that look up to paypal as a payment processor. If this is very through, believe me it will not be long before we see other competitors adopting blockchain as well and which to me bring good news to everyone that have not stopped believing in the crypto. Proabably we shall witness a complete overhaul of the trading system by the crypto trading services. However, this is still not made official by the paypal and hopefully it doesnt take long before they make such announcement

In any case, you need to have a positive attitude towards such a step. Combining cryptocurrency with other types of cashless payments is inevitable. It will bring much more convenience to people than their separate use. I think that the future is just behind the combined use of various types of means of payment, regardless of whether some of them will be more attractive.

I din think PayPal coming into crypto is a good fit.  Although it would be huge with their market share they have in their respective market I fear we would be moving towards centralization which is exactly what crypto stands against.

You are making  a good point here, because PayPal may not work in a decentralized way, but even at that I also believe there will also be improvement in adoption of cryptocurrency.

There is a popular saying “ if you can't beat them, you join them”, this are smart companies that know crypto is the future, and they are doing everything possible to make sure they identify with crypto before is too late so that they can relate even in the future, this should be the attribute of any good entrepreneur this is why many other companies are going in to the crypto world, and I am sure that we would so even more mainstream adoption in no time.

Glad to hear that, another good news for cryptocurrency. If a big company like Paypal joined crytocurrency it would be big for sure. It can makes the crypto market become bigger. Also maybe paypal can offer some safety for online transaction using cryptocurrency.

This is a good news, many company that aren't blockchain don't want to be left out, they are trying to partner and build something on blockchain to keep up with what is going to be the future of money/business.

Great news. If paypal join cryptocurrency, it will surely increase popularity and relevancy of cryptocurrency. However, cryptocurrency is slowly making its impact and spreading popularity among the people across the world. It is being used as a method of payments by many organisations. Likewise, those, who were against cryptocurrency, are now getting attracted to it. The reports of Facebook considering moves to issue its own stablecoin has also added some energy. So lets cheer up.

It's good to know that many big players who opposed crypto way back are now joining the crypto space gradually. I was shocked when I saw the rumours that  JP Morgan will launch a stable coin called JPM coin. Now more astonished at this Facebook and PayPal interest in crypto and blockchain. I usually tell people that adopting a new technology takes time, especially a tech with a lot of Criticisms like crypto. Well, I hope these rumors  come to lime light.

They will try to get funds and investors free from this, so they can increase their actual value for free...

I would only think they are into blockchain but not cryptocurrency though, they strongly disallow everything with crypto years ago but now that they are up to blockchain will they now allow buying BTC or any other cryptocurrencies through paypal?  Or will they just create blockchain for the USD?

another great news coming to this industry, and for sure this news will create new demands in crypto world
just be ready for the next waves from the price movements in crypto market, and soon we will see bitcoin at $10K  ;)

They seen the big potentials and how this chain really works to help their businesses, PayPal will be a great additions if they will proceed and adopt
the whole essence of this industry, being decentralized and not controlled by any govern bodies.

This is definitely very good news for the whole cryptocurrency community, but I think that this news will very well influence on the price of cryptocurrency when PAYPAL starts to implement cryptocurrency into its system. now it’s just good news that has no meaning. in the future, it will be great

is this news really valid? I think Paypal has made a policy not to involve bitcoin or crypto at all.
so I don't know that this news is true or just lead to opinion.
but if paypal can contrubine as the news says, this is a big thing that can boost the growing market.

I would think they would just be looking into blockchain, chargebacks and buying bitcoin with PayPal is always going to be an issue to to chargebacks.  If they are interested in just blockchains and not the cryptocurrency that drives it would not be news at all.  Most companies are looking into utilizing blockchain technology and how it can benefit their company.

This is really a good news for the crypto world,  I was really happy about this news when I heard about it finally the adoption we talking about is really gonna happening,  hopefully others to follow suite

I don't think that paypal will start working with cryptocurrencies until they are fully legalized, because so big companies are most likely very careful in their relations with the financial regulator and will not risk it. It is possible that this news will be refuted in the near future. I hope this news will be true.

According to the official announcement of FaceBook will launch their FaceBook Coin in Q3 of this year in testing phase and PayPal is also making their own blockchahin and coin.

And you really believing these ones are coming to give you total freedom? If they had not seen what will benefit them greatly through the system, they would not have adopted it. Will the adoption of blockchain technology stop paypal from charging that exorbitant 5% transaction fee on sending of funds?

I am really still waiting for me to see how transparent they will be in their blockchain operation. We should not just be assuming that when they come into the system, everything will turnaround, we need to first ask how their input will affect the market, because they only end up creating their own stable coins, that is all.

Quote John Rainey words  "I just think it’s a little early on right now"  mean it still ain't been confirmed yet! it could be canceled. But still that is a good news. let's just keep the positive thinking is the way to support Bitcoin.

That Is just the only benefit I really see that these big industry players will bring into the market, they will all create awareness for people on cryptocurrency but the decision to which crypto to support still lies on the user or adopter, I dint think these companies adoption of cryptocurrency will really add any value to Bitcoin.

I am still trying to ask some great analyst to explain to me how their acceptance of cryptocurrency will increase the value of bitcoin, I know generally, it will add to the market capitalization of market, because whatever fund they are managing through cryptocurrency will increase the amount of money recorded in the general market.

I think that with the entry of established and large companies into the world of crypto will have a positive impact. which is providing public awareness. Besides that, with the involvement of large companies like this, it certainly has advantages for the company itself. The question is, will such companies like Paypal, Facebook etc. adopt a decentralized system or not.

This is a good news to all crypto enthusiast and also to those members here that has paypal accounts, this is something about the great development of cryptocurrency. I hope there a lre a lot more features that might come in terms of the development of cryptocurrency that many would benefit from it.

Oh wow, I use paypal almost all the time and i had no idea they would reach out to crypto. Twice the profit then! I think it’s one of the best services for future crypto expanding.

Twice the profit:) but for them or for all of us or for both?

Its been a long time since paypal is having an incubator of some projects that they know that have a big potential. Not new anymore, i would be surprise if they will anounce what altcoin they will use and accept in their platform that was the most exciting part. Big future incoming to the altcoin they will accept in platform.

This is a big one. For all those who had moments of doubts now we can say it was worth it. I am glad companies like PayPal manifest openly they interest to cryptocurrency.

It is very cool.  I also did not know that PayPal has such a function.  This suggests that the cryptocurrency develops and begins to be implemented.  And it is very good that makes me happy.

It’s really good news there as already some platform like utrust trying to give payment solution in crypto space . But PayPal entering in this market means it’s really great . Hope PayPal will integrate crypto currencies in their payment gateway.

it would be nice but for now there are just rumors there is not already a finished product, but for me it(paypal) has lost interest since it no longer allows withdrawal on bank accounts outside the U.S.A...

this i great news, one of the first kind of e-money is finally looking on the bright side of utilizing this technology this is just a great news .but something is still bothering me what will come from this if the US still cease to support crypto? will paypal still continue to use their old technology in US or they will stop supporting US all together

Cool, it is really big news for crypto adoption, paypal is real giant. Also ive heard that Paypal is one of the safest way to make payments, and if Paypal start to accept crypto it can be a good example for another big  companies, will see!

paypal is a great giant in the digital payments sector, its entry into the world of crypto and great news will bring many benefits both to the world of crypto and to the fiat world, perhaps managing to approach them a little more

PayPal, Ebay, Facebook all of these big traditional companies are joining crypto and blockchain because they finally find out the huge potential of this market.  :D

News of popular companies joining cryptocurrency is such a good news, with the rapid development, cryptocurrency future is surely secured.

This is very good for the development of blockchain technology. I was also pleased with the news about Microsoft's work with the bitcoin blockchain.

This is definitely some great news because it comes from such a popular person, the CEO of PayPal which is one of the biggest payments companies out there. But we still have to wait and see what they are preparing because it could be something similar to JPMorgan and that's not something I really like because they don't stick to the idea of cryptocurrency anymore. What I'm trying to say is that I hope this is not going to be another coin used only for business purposes.

That's good news and I hope the implementation of the cryptocurrency on PayPal will be released soon and maybe PayPal will start to be popular again, maybe also PayPal will provide a p2p exchange for the cryptocurrency they use

This is exactly one of my problem.. Why most they all introduce fresh start-ups.. Why not just use existing technology and grow?..In my opinion their are reputable platforms PayPal can adopt seamlessly rather than building their own blockchain infrastructure from the start..

That is great but there are already many projects and wallets coming up that will provide all the facilities that even paypal does not offer for example crypto to fiat and vice versa, crypto to card and vice versa and crypto to bank and vice versa and that too globally. I think with all these services crypto adoption is just around the corner.

You are right, many of these big companies coming into the crypto space are not really coming to fully established a decentralized system, I am sure they have found a way around it and that is why they are all bold enough now to join cryptocurrency.

The only crypto project that I still respect till date which is the most transparent and reliable one is bitcoin, and no matter how much these people all release their own coin, they can still never compete with bitcoin and bitcoin will always find its way into most crypto user’s portfolio due to it reliability. Well, let us see what paypal really have in store for us.

Nice, big players are jumping in. Even samsung is now venturing into cyrptocurrency and might start their own crypto coin. Future seems so bright for crypto people

Yeah, these all good news will makes cryptocurrency become bigger than before. If Paypal success released their own crypto and used by all paypal users, it would be big. Crypto market will react positively and make all crypto price increase so high for sure. Let's see the update later.

This is what i've been waiting. With so many people using Paypal, I would say that if they will surely plan to create their own coin, many investors will be interested about it. I will look forward for their proposed platform and projects.  If PayPal already decided to go on their plans, this is indeed a good news and definitely will gonna affect btc's price.

very interesting how they are going to do that, we all know Paypal is so strict to their clients, they are so centralized and very compliant that I consider this a new territory for them to explore, or they just want to be in a bandwagon but will still enforce what they have been doing all these years, we'll soon find out.

As they seem interested, it's so important to understand that this market will grow despite everything..

OMG this is the best information  ;D
Paypal join in cryptocurrency and it more and more close to change a real currency in this world.
Blockchain is really good system and someday money is just number that can use everywhere.
I will wait for that.

It will be good if some leading companies starting to adopt cryptocurrency as their alternative currency beside fiat currency.
Paypal is a good start for one of the big companies in the world and can give influence to other peoples and companies.
Let's see how paypal going to use cryptocurrency in their platform.

This is great, the hype effect from 2017 really attract a lot of big companies to learn more a bout crypto and blockchain, its good if paypal really want to implemented crypto, it sure make the adoption become easier and gives a lot of easier transactions payment globally

More big company with huge reputation join in cryptocurrency and using blockchain technology. This indicating that cryptocurrency market will shift to higher level and will change current bussiness face

I don't know how to interpret the statement made by John Rainey. He has admitted that the staff is working on both blockchain and cryptocurrency. But this can mean a lot of things. GIven the hostile stance taken by PayPal with regards to decentralized crypto-currency, I suspect that at the most we can expect something like FB Coin from them. They are not going to support any of the major cryptos in the near future. But Blockchain technology is different. It is something that can be merged with the fiat structure of Paypal.

PayPal considers it too early to announce the use of Bitcoin as payment method worldwide because it needs accomplish more strength and stability in its price to reduce the angle between the highest and lowest price region of Bitcoin. However, PayPal pronounced and showed interest in joining Blockchain and crypto currency. It is a very good sign for crypto industry and soon it might join the Bitcoin.

This is makes totally sense, since Paypal is part of ebay and ebay have said that they are working on implementing bitcoin and crypto payment in the future, it does not come to a surprise that they may be working to create their own crypto, and since crypto has really made quite an impact the past 2 years and the number of users is increasing significantly every day, you know that companies are definitely going to jump on the hype train either to not be left out or to get a piece of the cake and claim profit for this revolution that is going on in the finical field.

This is no doubt great news for the crypto geeks and freaks. This will give people the freedom t o use the service of PayPal to buy or sell Bitcoin and would result in an inflow of new users and further expansion in the crypto circle which is what every crypto enthusiast wants. More inflow, more spread of the technology and hence more people to make use and take benefit of it.

That statement already impacted a lot. Well, I didn't hear it from the horse's mouth, but it's really fascinating if PayPal will join the crypto space. I think the big players are gradually stepping in, the likes of eBay, Facebook etc . Mainstream adoption is gradually coming through, but will still take more years.

Wow I can't wait for it, Imagine I can send BTC to a paypal wallet and then I can use it to shopping in various online stores  ::)

It would be cool! I think that such innovations contributed to the spread and popularization of cryptocurrency throughout the world!

You right, almost all the online shops that I meet receive payments via PayPal.
if it happens, it will certainly have a big impact on cryptocurrency.

PayPal even now can not realize the normal operation of the service. (who uses it for a long time, will understand me), I'm afraid to imagine how they implement the function with cryptocurrency.

Please stop spreading unconfirmed details on here ,this news reached out to PayPal and guess what? They denied ever getting into crypto space at all ,I think we should stop spreading unconfirmed news until its officially been confirmed ,it would have been a great news for crypto space if it was true

I remember that Paypal CEO said a lot of good things for blockchain and crypto before. Currently, not only that, but many investment funds and companies are also involved in research and application of blockchain for themselves

I can't still believe it.
It's a good surprise for AT&T accepting bitcoin payments. But paypal working on cryptocurrency seems absurd.
Paypal is a pure evil. They have everytime insulted crypto and did everything to defame it.
Even though they come up with any crypto, I wouldn't ever use it out of my deep rooted hatred for Paypal.

Right, PayPal never has been crypto friendly but they have strict rules and these rules don't cover the blockchain technology. AT&T made the best decision with accepting the crypto payments and this is the right time to collect as much as BTC from mobile network subscribers.

I wonder what they will be working on, PayPal has been the number one enemy of some people on other countries because of its crazy fees and this is also why crypto has been their preferred method of payment. I just can't think of a way on how they will come up with a good use case.

Although I do not support the rumors people spread around on some of these assumed projects which may not be true for now, but I am sure they will also have their own interest too in blockchian development. It is just a matter of time before they come out openly to support it.

Initially,Facebook harassed most people using their platform to promote cryptocurrency, but when people carried out rumor of their project, they neither came out openly to officially accept the rumor or deny it, but weeks later, we could see some of their moves which shows that they are gradually changing their positions like that of crypto policy adjustment.

 This is good news and will good impact on crypto market as PayPal is world largest E currencies bank and it will boost up crypto trading and will motivate more investors towards crypto market.

This is very good news as it once again shows that cryptocurrency is a very promising direction in which a large future and by the way many large companies create their own cryptocurrency, which means that cryptocurrency will soon become an important part of the financial system.

PayPal going crypto is more exciting than the so called globalcoin :P, I know many people agree with me!

And these facebook guys are really jokers if I come to think of it, one minute they were threatening to ban crypto on their platform and before you know it they are spear heading a crypto idea to the world...smh

Zuck and team you can do better than this!

I don't think it's wrong for the OP to spread this news, whether it's confirmed or not. Yes, maybe the intention of the OP is for people here to know that Paypal will use Blockchain and Crypto, although this is not certain to have at least good speculation than spreading the FUD here.

For the OP, thank you for sharing this good news, I hope crypto users will be more confident about crypto.

You need to read the article attached t othe opening thread and see the details yourself, the CFO of PayPal made it clear that the "Have team clearly working on blockchain and cryptocurrency".  Which was official interview on Yahoo Finance also.

PayPal joining the crypto business is indeed a great deal. I am quite very sure they will be developing a payment option using blockchain tech. They might have other great plans but their business model already fits into blockchain

This is really something great. I believe something great is on its way as regards blockchain technology. Blockchain is really taking over. The expansion is now going each day.

This is outstanding news! Another big company is joining the blockchain sphere. I cannot wait to see the confirmation from Facebook that they are really creating their coin. It would be even more exciting if Amazon would do the same in the next couple of years from now on.

I agree to this. Globalcoin? What is that? More like calling it 2nd Tether lol. It is a stable coin and not for investing like any other coin. I'll certainly invest on other coin than this.

---

You're right OP this means something to cryptocurrency. It is a good news for the reason that Paypal has a big name and it joins cryptocurrency. Is this the reason why bitcoin is going up? Probably right?

I have been expecting PayPal to join the race of cryptocurrency and ride the market. They are a huge company with a great potential. They already have a working product so we already have a clue of what to expect from them.

PayPal and several other high-profile companies will surely try to get their piece of the cake. As a payment processor, PayPal is surely directly threatened by several crypto assets, so why don't they mitigate the damage (which won't appear for the next several years) by funding various projects or even making their own one? Blockchain technology will surely be massively adopted by all reputable tech and finance firms, but cryptocurrencies are a whole other world for our new institutional players.
Crypto can't be stopped, but it sure can be molded according to their liking, that's why we will see more and more big names (officially) entering the scene in the upcoming year.

Lol. Paypay exploited people with high commission fees for years. I really can't understand their interest in the blockchain and cryptocurrency. I think they should stay away.