Bitcoin Forum

One of the biggest critics made to bitcoin so far are the expensive costs that a transaction can reach when the network is overloaded. However on long run, specialists and enthusiasts defend it's not a problem, as the hardwares, responsible for the mining operation are evolving, getting more powerful to process the transactions faster and with less effort. What doesn't change is the fact that miners have to earn money from this operation anyway, as electricity isn't for free and their equipments are expensive.

So I would like to add a possibility: if the necessary energy to move the mining activity was supplied *for free*, could btc transactions be executed for free as well? As the world is evolving, renewable sources of energy are becoming even more popular and sustainable (taking our daily needs in consideration). Elon Musk's Tesla has already made a 100mw battery, and the conclusion is that it's paid back in 20 months, an incredible economy compared to the expensive electricity we use yet.

Now think if a solar energy farm with a battery like that were used to create bitcoin transactions. It's an infinite and free source or energy, right? At least after the investment is paid back. My doubt is how miners could return the fees to the transaction senders in this case. Would it be possible? Would you like to add any thoughts?

If it's free, miners don't need to send the transaction fee back because senders would not even add transaction fee to the chain. Nothing to return. Is possible to send Bitcoin without fee? I'm not really sure, fee is like a fuel and every car needs fuel to be able to run. Not sure about zero fee but it's absolutely possible to make the transaction fee near zero, unfortunately there is always a fee war. Some people agree to pay more fee to accelerate their transactions or simply ruin the chains, make it very busy so other people will move to other coins. This is the problem, even though the fee is 1 Satoshi, I think we would never do that because our transactions will take forever to be confirmed.

Even using the renewable source of energy, you still need to cover the initial investments of the equipment used. So you still need to charge fee for every transaction, though you have the option to lower such charges. And in that regard, future bitcoin transaction fees might be lower as compared to current rates, even if you want to add more satoshis to accelerate your transaction.

The price of transaction could be lesser if that would be the case. Transactions being free might be impossible since miners are still investing for their set-up and maintenance. With the evolving mining equipment and natural energy as a source in the future the possibility of transactions to be cheaper regardless of the crypto price is attainable.

But miners need to recover their ROI on their bitcoin mining gear, will have to pay people to maintain the mining farm so there is still a cost eventhough they will get free renewable energy in the future. And besides, mining fee is base on the hashing difficulty, so the more difficult it to find a block, the more fee's we need to pay.

The logic is, what if all the miners are already using renewable energy and solar panel for their farms?

Isn't it free energy for all of them and the cost of mining would also be free? IMO, there's no need for any return from miners fee back to the sender because it's the fee for confirming our transactions.

I think transaction fee would always be there it is the source of income of a miner .
If the transaction would be free why would the miners continue to mine specially in the future when all of the supply has been mined?

Right, I mean it's business, specially for big mining farms such as Bitmain. So there will always be fee going to be put on all bitcoin transactions an of course to all of us.

But I just do hope that it's not that exorbitant anymore because it they can harness free electricity or at least reduce the cost of mining a coin, then they're no reasons for any high fees.

Did anyone watch the funny video about Roger Ver and Tone Vays. I hate both of them and they are silly but it was stupid to see Roger Ver lose a $10k bet with Tone Vays. He said he would give 10k to Tone if Tone could send $5 of Bitcoin to someone with 1 satoshi/byte fee and it would confirm.

It did, of course. Bitcoin fees are high now yes but because mempool is big. On normal times 1 satoshi is always enough.

You are so wrong... A business always has its costs.

Let's say electricity is for free and the devices are paid, those for the electricity and those for mining.
This or that will break from time to time (miners, light cells, network routers, name it) and some of them are not cheap, so some money has to be put aside for those.
The internet is not for free.
The space where everything is running is not for free.
The cooling.. OK, let's add the cooling to the things already paid and which will only break now and then.
Good. We have a better image, only one thing is still missing: nobody likes to work for free.

So no matter what, the miners will have to be paid. The fees are not big (usually). It's up to them to evolve and switch to free electricity to stay in competition... and that's all.

Transaction fee is one of reason why we have a miners this indicate their earning to cover from their expenses like electricity and cost of the miner gadget. Having a solar panel is good for miners but imagine you run a miner for free this is impossible to happen right now the transaction cost too high.

 If bitcoin is really influential in the future, the solar power industry will surely have a good market and we can do it in the future.
transactions are becoming more and more investors need blocks to be processed faster.
I think we need to focus on exploiting bitcoin more in the future to make blocks processed faster and of course we will also be rewarded with bitcoin mining.

It's important and necessary if they would mine freely through solar energy and it would decrease the energy consumption as well but I guess it couldn't make every crypto transactions free as well. It's where miners earn for their resources.
They could make it quite cheaper but they couldn't eliminate it.

To create a "free energy system" are necessary a lot of money, and even so they can't make the bitcoin transaction for free, all of this cost money and after sometime the system need to be replaced with new solar panels, and also mining equipment is not cheap, so always will be a fee on bitcoin transactions.

Free is free when a farm doesn't have land that it's renting or paid millions for in advance, and doesn't have any other operational cost. This is more of a fairytale.

People wrongly assume that pools represent one single entity, which isn't the case at all. Pools have thousands of larger/smaller miners pointing their hashrate to them, which means that the hashrate distribution in reality is more distrubited than the pie chart shows you. How on earth do you expect all these individual miners to enjoy 'free' electricity?

It requires a lot of devices needed just to create a free energy system. And also free energy can't exist, because mostly the common source of energy is from our environment.

Agree with you to the part that it needed a lot of maintenance to cover up the whole system and the free bitcoin transaction is too ambitious. It's better to rely on environmental equipment like solar panels to decrease the power consumption on the device.


The project is very ambitious and it's impossible to implement because of the details.

Thanks for all replies. I understand your concerns that even having access to a free source of energy there are the maintenance costs of the whole equipments, that can be very expensive. Although in the future I think this activity will be optimized: more powerful hardwares, longer durability, less equipments needed, cheaper costs involved. Consequently, a fee near zero cost is possible.

Another approach would be that even crypto friendly governments could offer this service in a far future. In a way people should pay only for the maintenance costs.

The transaction fees are what keep miners mining, even with the access of these wind turbines and and solar panels they the electricity may not be cheap due to it, they miners needs to get paid well. The other option to take is to pick an altcoin where transaction is lesser. There are stable coins too, it that makes the charges fixed.

If there was free electricity, miners would still need some incentives for working, right? Sure, they are mining and getting block rewards for now. But as less and less BTC is left, the bigger and bigger stake of the rewards come from transaction fees. What I am saying is that it's probably not a long-term solution anyway. All of the bitcoins will be mined by the middle of the next century. Yet someone will have to still validate the transactions, right? And they won't want to work for free, of course. Oh, and apart from investing time and perhaps paying salaries miners also need to cover the costs of their equipment, not just electricity. Once we solve the electricity and equipment costs problems, Bitcoins will be mined or very closed to be mined, and incentives for confirmations of transaction fees will be needed more than ever.

Bingo, bro.  The cost of electricity or whether the mining equipment is already paid off only makes a small difference--and it's an unlikely scenario in most cases anyway that power is going to be free and mining has produced enough profit to pay for all the hardware in full.  And if you're talking about a solar-powered mining farm, that just isn't going to happen if people don't pay fees (or very small ones).

I'll admit I'm not expert in mining.  I know very little about it, in fact.  What I'm wondering is what would happen if bitcoin's price reached a level that was so insane that 1 satoshi was something like $5 or even higher.  Would that not screw up the entire bitcoin system?  There would be no way to send small amounts of bitcoin or very exact amounts, much less pay a fee to the miners.  Am I missing something in that hypothetical case other than the fact that 1 satoshi will probably never be worth that much?

Right now, it costs around $3 to send Bitcoins. But as the number of users increase, this can also go up. If you remember, during the peak of the bitcoin bull run in 2017, we had fee ranging from $30 to $50 for a single transaction. The mining pools were making a killing back then. But the strategy backfired, as the users shifted to ETH, LTC and BCH.

If what you mean is free transactions and zero costs in the block chain, then everything must be free, because even the tools for mining also have an expensive price and it is impossible for everyone to be free because all of them use capital, even for themselves.

number of users does not affect the transaction fees but its the demand or the increase of the price , thats what trully affect the transaction fees  . also , not all wallet/exchange have the same fees  . some have less inexpensive fee because they use low priority or slower speed processing while others dont like waiting so they use high fees   


Thats impossible to happen . first of all , we need to pay for the miners so that they will process our transaction . secondly , mining hardwares are not free and wont ever be free because they are expensive and what about the shipping cost  ? They will just create it and deliever it to your door step freely ?  Lol  .

yes you are right when the fees of transaction is very low then it will be more helpful and useful for lots of people to get the extra profit for their mining and the investment definitely a good chance to implement and the possibility of people to increase input field is also there.

In theory this all seems to logical and could actually work, but you have to keep in mind that bitcoin is unpredictable, and solar panels are not cheap and generating enough power to actually make some profit requires a large amount of investment, an investment that only a small percent of the people that are rich will actually go for it, and since as i said that bitcoin is unpredictable and the price could change at any moment so the overall investment and profit is inconsistent so the return on the project will take a lot of time, talking about 10 or 20 years.

I have read about this somewhere (I forgot where). It's mentioned that Satoshi can be divided to smaller units when it reach expensive price for each Satoshi. It can be done through consensus. Theoretically possible but no need for now.

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

Bitcoin mining in the future won't cause the fees to be near zero because mining equipments will continue to be expensive. We could see the fee go down for a week or month if there's not a lot of transactions made during those time but it'll never stay that way permanently. The miners don't control how much fee does each user want to set in their transactions. Fees will only become free for everyone when Bitcoin transactions are done off chain where there's less resources being used.

to build a solar farm requires a huge investment costs as well as maintenance cost. the electricity use in mining using electricity from solar panels will not change any cost. basically this is a business, the miners will not willing if transaction costs are reduced because the investment and maintenance costs are already high. and the use of solar farms can only instaled on places that have high light intensity, so not everyone can use it.

If the number of users increase, then in all probability the number of transactions can also go up. And then, it depends on the exchange rate was well. The transaction fee may remain the same in terms of BTC. But its value in USD can go up if the prices rise. And I always use wallets where I can set the fee myself. If I think that the default fee is too high, I manually set it to a lower amount.

What is free in this world now? Soon even your breathing should be paid.

Water and other enegy source cost more since it is a daily need of one human being.

It still uses energy and someone needs to maintain it. Better if it would be cheap but never free.
Thanks for sharing though.

As others have pointed out, the cost for mining is not only about electricity, but also network, hardware, warehouse, etc. If you feel that the BTC transaction fee is so expensive lately, that's because of "network congestion." You might want to use SegWit wallet to reduce fee, or simply use LN for micro/mini payments. Don't buy a cup of coffee with on-chain BTC transaction.

free energy system? how do you mention the free energy system if it requires a lot of money, until whenever I think nothing will be free. to make a profit you have to spend money. whatever it costs definitely.

I don't think that if we use free electricity, we will not pay any fee because every transaction will have the fee and that was included in the transaction itself.
So even if we use renewable energy that will replace electricity that we know, we still use the fee to make a transaction of sending the bitcoin reward from the mining process.
But for how much the fees, I am not sure about that.
And yes, right now, the fee cost too high, and it's more than $2 for one transaction, but it depends on how much money you want to send to the recipient wallet address.

I still believe that in 2017 there was also a spam attack ongoing, probably from BCH supporters and maybe with the help of some pools too.
If you look around better, you see now that there are periods with high fees and periods with low fees, only a couple of hours apart.
I've sent myself a transaction with 5 sat/byte a few hours before your post and got confirmed in less than one hour.


I think that it's counterproductive to worry for such scenarios.
There's still quite some time until Bitcoin will become so expensive. And if that'll happen, maybe only companies will send on-chain transactions. For off-chain there will be LN and most probably other solutions too.
5$ for one satoshi.. maybe until then maybe the fees will be calculated in a different way. After all, there were times when the min fee was not ties to transaction size. Things do change over time.

I don't think that 1 satoshi will ever be worth so much, either

However, it doesn't mean that extremely high prices should necessarily screw up the Bitcoin ecosystem as this ecosystem mostly consists of speculators and their likes (read, fees are irrelevant in this context). In other words, such prices and fees as high will only affect real-life use of Bitcoin. But given that it is virtually nonexistent anyway, it is not a big deal in itself. Fees had already been on the insane before but did it stop speculators from speculating?

The biggest problem any renewable sources of energy platforms are and will be facing are the people who make their income from the electricity. I can tell that they will not agree and will make sure to make their business stay in its position.  Because once these renewable sources will be offered to the public, they will not earn money anymore and they will lose everything they have.

It is the same problem Elon Musk is facing with his Tesla Automotives. The people from the Gas reserves industry and electric industry doesn't let him do what he wants because he will step to them for sure. They would also do anything to stop Elon Musk and would get Elon Musk's life. In Gas and Electricity, there are a lot of them committed in syndicates because they are too rich to have a problem like this.

I think mining fee normally increases when network is congested.
Besides, Bitcoin Blockchain has some limitation. This is why an increase in transactions volume normally makes the network congested. This will hopefully be improved with Lightening Network.

I don't see how cheap/free energy would improve the situation or make transactions faster.

You may know basic economy rule: If there is demand, there will be someone who will have supply. But when demand is very high, in any way it creates opportunity to sell your product in high prices without any problem and this is an opportunitu that no one wants to hang on.
Also when you consider free electricity, there is one problem too. People are against using electricity for mining, that free electricity can't cover things and it can also increase difficulty, make it impossible for individuals to mine.

Now thats a great idea. They can also add more renewable sources since its a plus for the environment. But the thing is these renewable resources don't usually operate on its own. It also needs people to work on it since our civilization isn't that dependent on robots yet.

Nobody will ever supply electricity for free that is impossible in this world we live in and even if you can be talking about the power of the sun there will always be generation and operational cost. Now even if the electricity is free, you have a big investment with the equipment and other related expenses. The most important here is that there is always the development of better mining equipment that hopefully will do things faster and most importantly more efficient in the use of power (this is a big concern for many especially environmentalists). I am looking forward to many good innovations and changes soon in the bitcoin mining industry.

In that hypothetical case, you miss the fact that one bitcoin is going to be worth 500 million, and all the bitcoins in the world are going to be worth ~10 000 trillion, or about 120 times the GDP of the entire world. If that would happen in the next ten or 20 years a coffee cup would have to be 100 or 200$, so no point breaking satoshis.

And even in that case, there is still a possibility, a fork to further split satoshis in smaller denominations.

But I doubt we will ever reach that point.
Even at 1 cent/Satoshi, we're still talking about a bitcoin being worth 1 million, I can still an insane price level where it's still pretty much feasible to deal with it


Better miners don't make transactions happen faster and that efficiency is not what about the green environment but how many green bills you get for the power burned:P

If Bitcoin reaches 100k tomorrow, there will be 180 million to be earned, miners would be happy to spend 150 million a day on energy to get that.

At a price of 5 cents per kwh....you're not going to like the result  ;D

Of course all this turns out to be a problem, now more than ever because everything depends on the price of bitcoin, that is, if the price of bitcoin increases the fee rates they will also do it, it is something that does not make sense but due to this only for the mining part but for the Exchanges, this always happens, in some way they want to take advantage of the opportunity.

In Venezuela electric power is almost given away, however now due to power cuts is a serious problem, unless you reside in the Country Capital, now if we see it from the point of view of being a good business, it is , as long as the bitcoin is on the rise, so the energy goes free, many miners are not only worried about the price of energy, but the performance of their machines, even if they are machines, they can be damaged, your cards as some part of the hardware that should be replaced immediately, if we take into account these costs, the rate of profit is increased much more in negative, but now the spcial market is having a good upward turn, which means that it is in a very good run for the miners that they leave a little more expensive electric power service.

If solar energy is used to make it function, it must be taken into account that the voltage must be generated to start and keep the machines running without loss, and without risking the flow of operation of the same.

it is true that in all countries, especially in my country, there is no free electricity. surely the cost of the opera is very expensive for the power of the sun

A large part of the expenses incurred by the miners can be attributed to the capital costs. Setting up a mining farm can be very expensive, with all those mining rigs and air conditioners. Right now, there are only a few manufacturers that produce the mining rigs. And they don't have the spare capacity to increase the production 100x.

Which is real, the setup will already burned you as hell when you do this mining business, not everyone can afford that only those who have huge investment capital and have a good source of cheap or free electricity will manage to proceed and do this business, its a risk to take even value of
bitcoin will increase to that level.

It can never be "free" even the energy evolution of solar energy is not free. Running that place costs money, even if its less than the original ways its still has a operational cost, from salaries of people who run those places to maintenance and stuff we don't know. So it can never be free, it could totally be clean and cheaper but not free. That is one part, on top of that bitcoin miners needs to profit as well, so even if electricity gets really cheap we need to put miners profit on top of that as well and we have a cost at our hands.

Now miners do mine bitcoin in return so that could mean they will be paid in the bitcoins they mine but the transactions could be free but looking at how the halving is getting close I am pretty sure just the bitcoins mined can't be enough, its a possibility but a very low one at that. We already have only 3 million bitcoins left to mine so I doubt it will be feasible but even if it is not going to last too long.

cheap electricity resources will be very difficult for developing countries. only developed countries can do so with an established level of welfare. of course if that happens, it will be a good mining for minner, of course the cost will be reduced

it  just be a dream for citizen from developing countries.they government need much fund to provide infrastructure.so if they give subsidy it difficult to happen.meanwhile mining need low cost electricity to able generate profit from current price.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, Bitcoin now has a very significant negative factor that governments of many countries are drawing their attention to. The point is that the cost of maintaining the activity and performance of the Bitcoin network is currently too high. Too much energy at this point in time is going to ensure the stable operation of the Bitcoin network.

Not immediately of course.
But when gear that was sold for 400$ a few months ago can earn 720$ a month even at 10 cents per kwh every bitcoin mining chip maker will be able to go to TMSC and make them an offer that would take 1st place in the queue.

Abut air conditioning..common, we have stocks for that for tens millions of homes and businesses it won't be a problem to a few thousands small farms or a few hundred huge ones.

And I wasn't talking about 100x, but the price reaching 100k.

Not only the energy is not free, but in most places, you can even sell that energy so it's not like you get it for free and you have no use for it. Even if you use it to mine and generate profit you must first check and subtract what profit you would have had if you would have sold the energy directly to the grid without the headaches of monitoring bot miners and bitcoin price.

It's just a matter of time before people find Bitcoin useful enough to no longer care about its energy consumption, just like how people don't care anymore about the energy consumption of the banking system and internet/tech giants.

Back in the days there was a similar discussion going on about how the internet would result in an environmental disaster due to how much energy massive datacenters consume at cost of the local economy/environment.

Right now no one even cares about these datacenters anymore, where most of them run on renewable energy, which eventually will be adopted by most Bitcoin mining farms as well. History has shown that things CAN change for the better. :)

I agree this is a big and free resource and in my opinion this is a new breakthrough in the world of agriculture.  so that working farmers don't fully use their muscles.  regarding the return of investment, it is clear that it will return if the project and company continue to make significant progress.

changes will always exist, and usually changes that are more effective and more efficient are the people's choices. therefore if there is renewable energy, then the two factors above are considered for the continuation

It's because there is a slight difference.

A few decades ago you had HDD with 1 GB of data and CPUs running at 166 Mhz, imagine the size of youtube datacenter if they would have to replace all their HDD's with some with 1g capacity and how many servers they would require to process 4k videos if they would use that generation of chips.

But data centers were saved by efficiency.

Bitcoin doesn't work that way.
More efficiency mining means only that you get more $ per kWh spent and everyone will try to maximize their profits and in the end spent the same amount of energy.

Right now we have around 3 millions miners plugged in, at 8000$ per bitcoin.
At 80 000$ we will have probably 30 million.
Now imagine 30 million miners drawing each 2500W.
That's 100 millions Dell R740 fully equipped and with 2 GPU units.
Google for example for all its services including youtube has around 3.2 million, in 2015 there were only 75 million servers in the whole world!!!!

The only thing that will prevent this waste is going to be the reward halving.

To understand how fees might become a significant incentive for miners we need to understand what the costs of transactions look like in terms of the current mining rewards. With this measure each transaction costs around 0.045 BTC, or approximately $17 at the end of October 2014. The network is able to process more transactions per second than it is right now. It's currently running at about 30% of its capacity and has doubled in the last 12 months.

Let's assume 1 satoshi is $5. Since 1 Bitcoin is equal to 100 million satoshis, it makes 1 BTC worth $500 million. When finding a block miners receive not only transaction fees from all the txs included in the block, but also a block reward that is 12.5 BTC currently.

12.5 x 500 million = $6.25 billion

If the block reward was so high, miners would start including transactions with zero fee without any problem, because only to receive the block reward would be more than enough for them.

And even after 2020 halving, when the block reward will be reduced to 6.25 BTC, even then, and I would say, many years after that, the block reward would be the main source of miners' income in the case of very high price of Bitcoin, not the transaction fees.

Exactly, mining equipment is very expensive and not only that miners need to pay their employees as well which raises their costs, however miners are not the ones that determine the costs of transactions, that is done by us, since the space in each block is limited this means the supply is low and when the demand gets higher like when the price of bitcoin goes up then it is natural to see a spike in the fees since everyone is trying to outbid one another to get their transactions to be confirmed as fast as possible.

I really do not complain about BTC transaction costs. I am a trader and I have many ways to avoid BTC trading but money can still come back to my wallet very quickly. For example, if you are trading on an exchange, you are holding 1 BTC. You can divide it and sell it at altcoins with low transaction fees like Nano, XRP, LTC, ETH, CS, ... then we can convert to 1 wallet and everything will become very simple. ;D

it will always require capital to acquire solar panels and other renewable energy infrastructure. it doesn't come free. just like now, miners need to invest in hardware and infrastructure to indirectly invest in BTC.

as bitcoin mining transitions towards green energy sources, it'll be better for the earth, but the fundamental incentive design won't change. we still need to pay miners to include our tx in blocks.

You call that simple?
You first sell your BTC for altcoins, you pay fees, you also have to set up wallets, and...you end up with shitcoins!!!

Most of us are concerned about sending BTC and receiving BTC not converting into some shitcoin.

What am I going to do if I want to send somebody some bitcoin, send them to an exchange...convert them to an altcoin, send the guy the altcoin then he sends to the exchange and converts them to BTC ...and he withdraws?
Paying twice the fees for BTC, twice conversion and withdraw fees?
Calling that simple!!!!!

I have the same feeling about all of this, and that's why I never bother exchanging my BTC to some fast alts in order to make a fast and cheap transaction. However, it would be interesting to see the real numbers. I bet you will lose more money in the process compared to just sending BTC and paying the highest reasonable transaction fee, like 40k+ sats currently, but it would be interesting to see the following calculations.

Say, someone buys $500 worth of ETH with his BTC. Sends ETH to wherever he wants. Exchanges ETH for BTC there. How much this person will really lose in the process? I assume, it can be more than $5, but I don't know how much exactly.

In the future the cost of transactions with bitcoin will be similar to now, the reason is simple, it may be that in the future the price of bitcoin is high then their fees will be high and if the price is low, the fees will not be so high, not only in mining, because there may be many miners with very large solar cells but in the same way the Exchanges will charge their corresponding fees according to the bitcoin price for the moment.

In the future its expected that the value of bitcoin and other cryptos will be super high because they will be indemand therfor the price of transaction fees will also be super high and it does not matter if the miner uses a solar power or not because miners will still choose the best highest possible fee so that they can profit easily and their effor of mining a transaction wont be wasted  . however at some point i think your also right  because in the future the value of cryptos are still volatile same as today  .

Depends on the exchange if they're using a popular exchange like Binance for converting it's usually more than spending a recommended miner fee for Bitcoin because of the fixed withdrawal fee. Apart from the additional miner fee from the deposit if $500 worth of BTC is BTC0.06 then Binance is charging like 0.1% on trading fees there's a BTC.0006 trading fee(plus the fix eth fee) total estimated cost is $15 after conversion. This is assuming the price of ETH is stable, the cost or loss in value could be greater as the rates from exchanges are different.

That would be the relation between price and possible fees. It is a common thing to happen as miners will urge people to pay it high otherwise they'll never process their transactions or causing long delays due to prioritization. That is why I've never wanted it to be more expensive cause it came into the point that we can't afford it to buy and transaction fees will stay at low.

logical too, indeed the more the price of bitcoin rises, of course transaction costs will be more expensive, because it is calculated in units of dollars. but as demand increases, price increases cannot be avoided

I think it will be definitely very low when the Bitcoin demand increases then there is lots of options available to transact the Bitcoin into different types so at that time it gives the free transaction method will be very useful for everyone to get connected with Bitcoin very easily.

I think using renewable energy for the electricity in mining bitcoin is a brilliant idea. The monthly cost for the electricity will be reduced, but not for free though there still initial cost in setting up the plant and also maintenance cost. So, the electric cost will not totally gone. Thus, transaction fee would still be there for the miners.

Even with clean energy the amount of work put into creating that energy will be still a lot. Nuclear is another topic which we do not like to talk but honestly it is such a power that just one plant could give you enough energy to cover most of the underdeveloped world, I do not remember where I read it but if we had like 200 nuclear plants all over the world then we could have enough energy to cover all energy need ever.

We can move to clean afterwards but nuclear is technically "clean" energy as long as nothing bad happens. The only reason why it is not like is the risk of leakage and something like Chernobyl to happen. With just one nuclear plant we can literally cover ALL bitcoin mining operation electricity requirements and then some (a lot more) which is why if we want free bitcoin transactions we should totally focus on nuclear plants.

using renewable energy as electricity source in mining bitcoin must pay expensive cost.maybe only huge miner pools that able to set this.for medium or even small miner that will use commoin electricity.

ralle14 has already given an answer on this but the thing is a bit more complicated.

For larger amounts it makes no sense, over 1000$ the minimum fee for a small trader would be 2$ so it would really make no point paying withdraw and tx fee for the shitcoin.

However for smaller amounts, like 100$ if you benefit from 0.05% exchange fee and the shitcoin you're dealing is really cheap to transfer then you might do it cheaper than a simple BTC<>BTC transfer.

It will always be about how much will a btc transactions cost.
At 30sat/b this makes no sense whatsoever, but at 200sat/b when you try to transfer 25$ it might.


There are ~500 nuclear powerplants already in the world and they only produce 10% of the energy we consume.

Using solar energy as energy for miners costs more or less like making 3-5 tools for mining. of course profits will come but you have to be more patient because the cost of making solar energy is very expensive. When usually ROI without solar energy comes within 6-8 months, then using the solar energy should be take 16-32 months.

absolutely right, this will cost a lot and of course there will be results as well. but for as long as it really has to be considered

Yes, most of the people are concerned about the fee, definitely, there will be a high fee if the price of Bitcoin start increasing automatically the price of the transaction will surely increase. Yes, even exchanges will charge the same fee but the value of the transaction will fee will be high corresponding with the $.

You seem rather optimistic about something we shouldn't be so optimistic about. Nuclear waste isn't going to miraculously vanish. It's a concern for tens or even hundreds of thousands of years after.

I doubt it, but even if so, Bitcoin mining isn't happening in one centralized spot that you can provide energy for from one single nuclear plant. You need a lot of these nuclear plants around the world the way mining is distributed.

Things aren't as easy as they may seem when it comes to energy consumption. You can't possibly pool the entire network together with one energy source. It makes you an easy target for governments too.

When market demand for bitcoin increases and prices also increase. fees certainly follow up because prices have increased. the reduction in the fee itself will also be a problem because the longer we have to wait for bitcoin to enter.

Once bitcoin is generally adopted and being used by major industries to execute trade and transactions the price wil be low as most merchants strife to integrate bitcon in their transaction process

For this example if we look at exchanges they become to greedy in this process. Most take to much if we send BTC but in conversion to ETH then this could be interesting. We spend something for transaction but eventually if we then this ETH convert to bitcoin again we could ended in same thing. Thing that small amount are the ones that are used most in this but when sending bigger amount think that nobody dont look into this with reason.

i don't follow your logic. how does this equate to free bitcoin transactions?

in my mind, the days of free transactions are over. it doesn't look like block size will be increased any time soon. that means as users increase, fees are gonna increase as well. it has nothing to do with the hash rate or the energy sources miners are using.

I think it's worth pointing out that processing the transactions is not what requires a lot of energy resources. All the transactions put in a block can be processed by any node in a fraction of a second without spending any significant resources. What requires energy is proving to the network of nodes that it's your node that deserves the block reward with all the transaction fees included. I mean, mining tools are not evolving in order "to process the transactions faster and with less effort". They are evolving to solve the computationally difficult  problem, namely that the SHA-256 hash of a block's header(hash of the previous block, version, difficulty target, timestamp, Merkle root, and nonce) was lower than or equal to the network target.

I understand that many people here know this without my explanation, but judging by some replies and by the OP article itself, I thought it needed some clarification.

Given the price of large and more efficient panels needed to power a mining hardware that consumes a lot of energy, a small scale or medium scale miner might not have the amount of money to buy those. And it will take a longer time for that investment to return. Also, when the price dumps, it is another loss for the miner. Another is the halving of generated bitcoins for every block, there will be lesser and lesser bitcoin produced in the future. It's not that easy to start with buying a pricey solar panel.

electricity that uses solar panel power does provide a lot of benefits because the energy produced can be used for mining or other activities, but the most terrible threat is when bitcoin has reached the maximum production limit which means that it can't be mining anymore, mining equipment not used to mine bitcoin anymore.

I think the easiest way to drop the rates would be staking, with staking at least we are going to get rid of most of the machines which would help people mine via their richness (not fair I know) and there would be less transactions. So the question is will you be willing to let rich people become richer in bitcoin world as well (after they did that in our current monetary system anyway) and just pay less fee's on your transactions or do you want business operators (not like they are poor neither) control the mining and pay more transaction fee's.

I personally would love a bitcoin with staking involved, I know it won't be profitable for small investors like me but neither is mining so at least if rich are getting richer let me pay less transaction fee for it.

Staking will not make the bitcoin blocks bigger or faster.
PoS,  PoW, Pooh  ;D the network will have the same capacity.
And so there will be no small fees for you either.


You still need mining to solve blocks even if the reward drops to zero.


People think that if you have more miners you process more transactions and mine more bitcoin, or that the fees are imposed by the miners to cover electricity costs.
I'm pretty sure 90% of the forum doesn't have a clue how mining, miners, nodes, and blocks work.

By the development of technologies the expenses for the miners will get decreases over the years so you no need to worry about the charges on future but the value of Bitcoin transaction fee might be high in future due to the increase in the value of Bitcoin prices against dollar value.

Staking adds more problems than it solves. I have never really liked the idea of using coins as voting or power mechanism. We have seen a few exchanges already abuse their role as custodian by staking people's coins.

If you want low fees, use LN. The fees are either 0 or a few satoshis at most depending on the number of hops. The more people signal that they are ready to use LN, the more incentive exchanges have to actually start supporting it.

Instant and near free transactions, who doesn't want that? It will also end the complaining of people to a larger degree.

Since the block reward is 12.5 BTC currently, the main source of miners' income is block rewards and not the transaction fees. Yes, miners would rather include the txs with the highest satoshis/byte ratio because you are getting additional $1k+ per block due to this policy, but overall the $100k current block reward is enough to include even the txs with lowest fees possible. And in May 2020, when halving occurs, it is pretty much possible that the USD price of BTC will be at least 2 times higher than it is today, and thus we will have a similar situation. My point is that I don't expect the rising of transaction fees in the next several years.

If all miners are using renewable energy, then that would mean lower transactions fee. I don't know if I'm correct or wrong but in a simple thinking it would be better to use renewable energy to mine to preserve mother Earth.

You have a point because last 2017, the fees increased due to the network spam and that led everyone to be pissed off by just sending $5, everyone has to pay for more than that.

But I think that after just a couple of years, a lot has changed and we may not experience it by next year but who knows?

For me, bitcoin transactions costs in the future will be faster if you paid a much more substantial amount to make your transactions faster. Yes, it is still the same this days, but if you are comparing the operations costs if you are using some renewable energy, you still need to calculate your ROI to make it lesser value if you want. Also, in business, you want to make a profit right, and these days, no one will work for free, especially if they know how much you earn. But the transaction price will always be depending on the current value of the bitcoin. :)

No, It depends on how much people want tot pay overall for a fast transaction. If we as a whole decide to pay lesser fees the speeds will be the same.

I think not. If the power supply is free, the miners still have to find a place to place digging equipment and cost more to buy materials and insurance.
There are lots of costs to spend on miners. therefore, there won't be anything free. If there are too many such promotions, Blockchain will be a redundancy. ;)

Yeah, look at the diagram showing Confirmed Transactions Per Day:

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all

We are almost at the same level regarding the number of transactions as we were in December 2017, when people were paying $30-$60 per transaction, but today you can pay 92 satoshis/byte (or around $1.8 for transaction of an average size) for your transaction to be confirmed within 35 minutes. It's hard to not spot the difference since it's huge. And, of course, if you are not in a hurry, you can pay 3 satoshis/byte, or just around $0.06 for your transaction currently, and it will be confirmed within 3 hours anyway. So, things have improved a lot in this regard.

pretty much this. I don't think it would be completey free but it can definitely be much lower if you're talking about using renewable energy. There is still cost associated with equipment that you'll have to purchase and their maintenance and so on but it would be much cheaper than today.

I think with lightning network and anything else that will put on top of that the transactions will be fine even without the electricity costs. I don't know how miners will profit from it in the end because I am not a miner and I haven't dealt with the operations of a mining place however I know how it will affect the users since I am a user.

I have been looking into getting a ledger nano just so I will be capable of sending and receiving on the best possible ways, that way I can pay less transactions via lightning network when available or segwit right now. Which means for the customers the future is not for electricity costs or some better mining equipment or something, the future is better core development codes for bitcoin itself which could make it cheaper.

If miners will not get a profit, they will stop mining.

If this happens there are two things that will follow
- hashrate will drop, the network will be less secure, anyone could buy the mountains of scrap mining gear that will be sold at scrap metal prices and guess what they might do with it
- if miners really stop completely (which is an impossible scenario since you will need only a simple computer to mine a block once difficulty will die down) there will be no more transactions, no more opening and closing channels in the LN ..no bitcoin whatsoever. So, you as a user with your ledger you will be just as the rest of us...f****!  ;D

I recognize and appreciate those changes and sure it has been one of the best after all of those times that we've pay for a high fee just because we wanted to send a certain amount to exchanges, casinos, etc.

In short, things are becoming better now.

In the future, everything is possible, we can only fantasize. Maybe the PoW algorithm will be noticed on the PoS.

Yeah, exactly. Many people, and I mean Bitcoin-oriented ones, still think that if we had the the same amount of translations per day as we had in December 2017-January 2018 we would have the same high transaction fees, but this is not the case currently. And all they need to do to check whether it's true or not is to examine the diagram from this link: https://www.blockchain.com/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all
The situation with the fees have been improved big time since then, and I'm glad you can see that yourself.

This is a good idea to lower the price of transactions which is hounding everyone of us, just last week one of my transaction took me 4 hours to receive, but the biggest question is do we have good samaritans that will help set up this renewable energy for Bitcoin transactions and not charge us with the set up.

I can see the future to be bright now is the time when all of us will have to show how much we have trust for bitcoin and other crypto, I know it is world of fantasy but I am can see it is our real future, good time never take much time when once it starts, and bitcoin decentralization has good future, people are happy to pay for the fees because it has huge profit as well,

It's just a small typo which I edited on the quote.  :)

Going back, I'm really happy to see that chart is hitting the same number of transaction that we had during the all time high. And the fees has changed a lot and those people that doesn't appreciate this kind of improvement will still talk about the fees in the future. Even the highest possible would be ranging from $0.1 - $3.

Bitcoin is having this problem and that's one of the reasons I don't want the price of bitcoin to high like too much like it did in 2017. The fees become very high when the prices goes up too much. Just recently that the price managed to reach about $8000+ plus, the fees started to get high. That is unlike other cryptocurrencies cause they are not like that, their fees don't get that high when they increase price (or maybe they are like that, but I don't know). But people wouldn't leave bitcoin no matter how high the transactions fees get, just because bitcoin is the number one cryptocurrency in the market, lol.

This is what the lightning network wants to resolve. Maybe in the future, the usage of LN will be more popular to crypto users and merchants. Right now, they are already addressing the high fees involved in bitcoin transactions. It is only a matter of time of adopting this LN technology. So yes, the possibility of having low tx fees is more than possible.

What will be the ROI of miners with their mining rigs and equipments if they cannot make commisions to the senders? I guess, fee will not become zero. Just like in a remittance center where we can actually see how much their commision or fee to the transaction. We need also to know that there is no more free in this world. We should also pay for the processing.

Maybe I’m wrong, but today there is no action on updating the Bitcoin blockchain.  If we compare the current situation with ethereum, then the developers are working in this direction, which showed good results after the last update, namely, the transaction speed has increased and the prices per transaction have decreased.  If the same thing happened in the Bitcoin system, one would hope for a bitcoin transaction price reduction at least.

Fee for miners is one of the main reasons for Bitcoin high price for its transactions. After halving, it will be reduced, therefore, transactions can become cheaper. It will happen each time after halving.

It seems to me that if people have already seen the possibilities of Bitcoin in 2017, then they believe in repetition in the same situation.  This suggests that everyone lives with the desire to get a good income with Bitcoin.  Of course, I understand that this is the wrong approach for the development of a cryptocurrency market and cryptocurrency in general in society.  Nevertheless, you need to understand that it is precisely because of the demand for cryptocurrency in society that the future of the cryptocurrency market will be shaped.

I don't follow your logic.

Fees are meant to compensate miners for the lack of block rewards, which means that the lower the block rewards are, the higher the fees will be. The block size won't likely be getting a bump in the forthcoming years, but the demand for it will continue to grow due to more user adoption, so you better expect a significant increase in transaction fees.

There is nothing to follow :P

But there won't be any increase in fees either, miners can't do anything about fees other than trying to organize a cartel and decide to no include fees less than x or try to mine empty blocks, decreasing the capacity of the network and forcing people to compete for the space that is left.
But I'm sure this kind of tactic will hurt the coin and the damage won't be compensated this way.

 

Yes, in some we might see the transaction confirmation are taking little longer but once the price of Bitcoin starts increasing we might see higher transaction rate. Maybe in future with the development of technology the transaction fee can be reduced easily.

The big companies will have a lifetime grudge on bitcoin if it will be free of transaction charges. Banks, Electric Cooperation, Oil companies (powering electric generation) and many other related parties. I think they would combine forces and do all means just to stop Bitcoin from doing it so.

I believe that bitcoin will be more indemand in the future, so that means that bitcoins value will increase and that also means that its transaction fee will also become expensive but what do you think the purpose of other coins ?  You got it right  . altcoins are called alternative because they can be use as a replacement for btc in the means of a currency use while btc will only be good for an investment use .

it might happen and no one can be sure of the development of crypto currencies and crypto currencies created by using advances in the economy and possibly in the future

It will be low but as according to me it is not still very high because we are getting good transaction of money from all over the world with very fair and good fees, as if we want low or free transaction as were happening in past it will take so long for conformation, but now we are in good time we can get fast conformation with reliable fees.

I really hope that Bitcoin will be interested in Big Business.  Back in 2018, there was a lot of information that heavy industry is interested in a Bitcoin transaction in order to transfer large amounts of money, since this business has very large amounts of cash flow.  If this happens, then Bitcoin will have another round of development for a great future.

Well I think that as long as the price stays low, we are not going to have any problem with transactions fees being too high and unaffordable. My problem is those people who are wishing that the price of Bitcoin should get to $1 million just because they are greedy and they want to make quick money and buy islands and become rich. These people forgets that as the price of Bitcoin gets high so will the transactions be getting high as well. With the way Bitcoin has been going, I'm guessing that if 1 Bitcoin should be up to $1 million then we will all have to be paying up to $100 thousand for a transaction lol.

Yes, right now, for example, you can pay 64 satoshis/byte for your transaction to get first confirmation within 35 minutes, and it's $1.36 for an average transaction, while the number of transactions per day, 300k-440k, is on the same level as that was when fees were reaching $40-$50 in December 2017 - January 2018. But I think that even this is not the limit. Bitcoin transaction fees should be at least 10 times smaller than they are today, and I am sure the team of developers will succeed in that in the future.

First of all, it is necessary to take into account the fact that the prices for a Bitcoin transaction have increased due to the large number of Bitcoin users who make transactions.  Everyone is trying to make their transaction faster and therefore offer a higher price than it really is.  Proceeding from this, the Miners first of all choose the best transaction with high payment.  In my opinion, this is exactly the situation that was formed in the pricing of a Bitcoin transaction.

using solar power generation technology does not mean that miners do not need a fee, remember that the equipment they use at any time definitely needs repairs and that it costs money.

Therefore the costs for bitcoin transactions will also always be there. because miners also need to benefit from what they do.

very true and I agree with what you say because in my opinion the greater the price and the value of crypto eyes will be great too and as investors we must be able to take advantage of every opportunity well

At least using their own solar power generator cost less than using the electric line. But the mining fees will still be the same as the last bull run before and we should expect already that there would be a lot of blocks of transaction that will be processed slowly depending on the mining fee.

I agree with you though since everything that we use really need some maintenance.

if bitcoin value increase alot , we should not worry about its cost for each transaction,moreover lightning network still developted.if this technology completely done , i am sure it will defeat all conventional payment fee.

Without any fee we cannot expect bitcoin transactions to take place, miners were the people who help in making every transaction with certain fees which gets used for the electricity, equipment and other service charges. In the future there'll be sure increase in fee, probably legalizing bitcoin usage will help with the support on electricity generation through renewable resources.

There will be no free fee for each transaction, even if electricity or solar energy is free though it's free, but the use of excess energy, especially solar can cause increased global warming. Miners need ROI for each RIG purchase or get benefits from these activities, there are still many miners who think of the profits ahead than their free service offer.

That's built in already, that's how the system works, and that's the norms of a decentralized coin which there should be a miner's fee.
My only concern is the growing miners or transaction fee, without LN, things would be harder for small time users.

You are forgetting about the block reward which miners receive along with all the transaction fees if they successfully mined a block. Right now it is 12.5 BTC, or more than $110,000, and it is much bigger than all the transaction fees combined. I may be wrong, but according to my estimation, transaction fees are bringing from $2,000 to $5,000 to miners per block currently, and if nobody was paying any fee, miners would still mine in order to obtain the block reward.

If the miners will run the bitcoin with these renewable sources, then that is the time that the bitcoin's price will be affected with at least 10% of down. The transaction had fees because of the reason for the energy/resources. Once the miners could mine with a lower cost, the senders would demand a lesser rate. That would affect the whole economy of the bitcoin. Also, having a renewable source would take investment for the equipment and project.

we have already seen bitcoin transactions may cost around 5 dollars for even million dollars transactions recent example of this transaction is Binance did huge transactions to their cold wallet which cost then few dollars after bitcoin halving we may expect less fees

Not really. As of now, the transaction fee represent less than 10% of the mining reward. The remaining is the mining block reward and the levels will remain the same for another year or so. Even after the block reward halving in 2020, the share of transaction fee will increase only to somewhere in the range of 15% to 20%, and it will stay so till 2024.

His point is about the renewable energy that the miners are using.

He concluded that fees should be free because of that but hey it won't be free since it won't be called 'fee' if its free. TX fees might be lesser in the future, yes that's correct because occurring problems are being solved gradually.

We are improving on renewable energy as well don't forget that, electricity will be cheaper and when its cheaper we will have the chance to drop the cost of bitcoin mining as well and when we drop that the transactions could happen a lot cheaper too. However no matter what the idea should be involving more transactions in one block so we can just make it go faster, the cheaper transaction can't be done without actually finding a way to transact more inside one block, making it quick is not the solution, making it same speed but bigger is the real solution.

When one block has 100 transactions and mined in 10 minutes vs one block have 1000 transactions but mined in 20 minutes it is always better to pick the more heavy block for all of us. That will make sure the costs will drop in the future.

So, what are you trying to insinuate now, that the price of Bitcoin should remain low for us to continue to enjoy low transaction fee which I doubt if anyone will support you on that because I believe that while we have 90 percent of people who are wishing that the price of Bitcoin continues to surge and are willing to pay any amount for fee provided it is still the same Bitcoin that gives them the profit in it.

Bitcoin transaction fee when high, only does not favor this who are basically using it for utility, which is also why we still have other reliable altcoins that are good for payment with low transaction fees?

I think the transaction costs when you use bitcoin when the price has reached $ 20k more or more expensive then the exchange of transactions that will occur will be very expensive because the price of expensive bitcoin exchanges will have a very significant price effect.

Miners cannot still shy away from their responsibilities no matter how much they try to economize. The cost of setting up that solar technology that will power those mining machines is also not a child’s play, the fact that they don’t get to continuously make payment on solar technology doesn’t mean the heavy amount paid for it at the initial setup should not be considered, and moreover, solar technology also requires maintenance, and some of its maintenance also could gulp lots of money.

I don’t know about other countries, like my country where electricity is poor, we use solar here and the cost of changing those batteries every 2 years is very expensive. The only thing I see here with solar is that it will reduce the cost of bitcoin transaction a little bit if applied.

Wow, we have a candidate to replace Al Gore here...
I wonder what's so special about solar panels that is causing global warming faster than burning oil/as/coal.



I once argued with somebody that 99% of the people here have no clue how mining and bitcoin transactions work.
From all my heart, thank you, people, for proving me that I'm not entirely wrong in my estimate.

Anyhow, guess I'll have to report this topic to get locked, nonsense concentration levels are starting to get really dangerous.

I always think about that sometimes. There are times I even feel like I don't want the price of Bitcoin to increase just because of the transaction fees, I know what I had to pay for transaction back in 2017 when there was a bull run and the price was very high. In times like that, Litecoin seems to be a better option than Bitcoin cause the transaction cost is always cheap. There are other coins that has cheap transaction cost also, but I prefer Litecoin and it is one of the top coins in the market. They really need to find a way to fix the high transaction cost issue, if possible.

It's not that transaction fees depend on BTC price like you think. First of, in 2017 the Bitcoin network was spammed intentionally to make Bitcoin look like it's unusable. I mean, even then transaction fees should not be that high. Secondly, today we have almost the same number of transactions per day, and yet the transaction fees are much smaller: around $2.50 for a fast transaction, compared to $30-$50 back then.

Of course there is a minimum rate for transaction fees.  But you still have to take into account the fact that who the owner of the cryptocurrency who performs the transfer, specifically raises the price per transaction, so that his transactions are carried out first.  And therefore, the price growth ladder is carried out one by one.

Seconded on this one because if we do tend to compare it clearly.We aren't experiencing the same situation

wayback on 2017.Fees are still low and we can already see network tx's are almost the same on numbers
which do really proves out that it had been spammed before.

In some years we won't need mining because we are reaching the full capacity , when it will be entirely mined then there won't be any income generated by the mining.

Now when we are talking about the cost , have you tried the lightning network payments or payments using segWit Integrated addresses ?

In those you can actually choose your own fee according to your urgency of transaction, therefore in that way the transaction fee is decreasing day by day , I think it won't be entirely free , maybe free only if you buy a subscription for the particular company and such , because even the wallets and the firm's you are investing in needs some money for the fact that they are providing this service.

Making it free , won't it be an injustice ?

If someone increase the transaction fee then it would get priority and will confirmed first but normal people will try to keep the fee as low as possible some if someone or few trying to increase it won't even last long for a day.

It depends on the amount you want to transfer. No one wants to pay $4(the highest fee currently) transferring $20, but if it's $20,000 and you want it fast, why not? Apparently, not so many people are craving for their transaction to be included in the very first block. They decide to wait additional 10-15 minutes but save around $3 on tx fee, and thus we don't have fees race, when transaction fees go higher and higher. The above mentioned race can be bad not only for regular users, but for miners as well, because if BTC price goes down consequently, they lose a lot of USD on each block reward.

right, they will be able to measure the transaction costs that are appropriate for themselves. by choosing the lowest transaction costs, you will be able to measure the time required

It will go low as the number of users will go high then the number of transactions will go high and it will create low transaction fees for exchanges and other platform that will deduct transaction fees will becoming a competition for them to atteact users or traders in their platform. As we all know that traders or users prefer low cost transaction fees and this is already forseen by the platform devs.

Always use recommended fee if your wallet have such feature or just see what can be the best recommended and priority fee for the coin you are transacting and then initiate your transaction.

in the development of crypto currencies and crypto markets no one can know for sure and all possibilities can happen and no one can know for sure one day will surely develop better because it will be needed for the economy

I don't know if it's possible to update the blockchain, it has not change, what we've seen in the past is there are bitcoin forks claiming they have a better system on bitcoin, so most likely that will happen. Bitcoin is not only viewed as a payment system now, it's popular due to the fact that people are treating it like an investment, so in terms of payment system, other coins are way better as they are faster and cheaper.

Faster and cheaper doesn't make them way better. Their blockchains are less secure, and, apart from XRP and ETH, they have far more less transactions per day than that of Bitcoin, and who knows, what would happen to them if they had the same load of transactions as BTC has? Bitcoin wouldn't be treated as a good investment unless it was, currently and potentially, the best payment system in crypto world.

I'm pretty sure that in a BIP or two we'll have a solution for lowering transaction fees for BTC significantly.

Recently, the network read information about how one person decided to conduct an experiment. To see the real advantages of a bank transfer or a Bitcoin transaction, when transferring funds in the equivalent of $ 25,000.  I do not want to talk about the specific goals of this task, but I want to say that the person paid $ 150 per transaction, with which they transferred $ 25,000 to Bitcoin.

The more the price of Bitcoin grows, the more it seems like it has an expensive fee, I think this is because there is more of people using it as payment on the network, which is why we think the fee is that high, ifall these other coins you talked about were to be in the position of Bitcoin, you will see that they will all be expensive too.

I don’t think we should really be complaining about fee of Bitcoin, because Bitcoin reward system is more than enough to rewards us for these high fee, the money we have taking from Bitcoin as profit cannot be compared to the token we pay for such system, so we should not make it continue to look like other coin are  better, how many of them can give such huge rewards that comes with Bitcoin usage.

Now the price of Bitcoin is kept increasing and this makes transaction fee higher for any transaction we do in terms of Bitcoin, When the price is increasing many people will start moving their Bitcoins to exchange for selling but for that they need to pay a higher price for the transactions.

In any case, miners should be rewarded for their work. I fully admit that in the future only large companies on an industrial scale will be engaged in mining, and the margins of this business will not be high. It is possible that then the commission will be lower. It is also quite likely that thanks to such solutions as LN we will be able to receive minimum commissions in the future and Bitcoin will can be used in everyday calculations. In any case, the future for cryptocurrency

yes I agree, indeed the increase in bitcoin has now been used by many people. because this increase has been eagerly awaited by many people. the problem is the current increase sometimes occurs and does not always increase. I hope the increase will always occur.

in any case, the cost of transactions will increase if the price of Bitcoin will also go up.  Who men need to take into account the fact that each user himself increases the price for the urgency of the transfer of funds.

Unfortunately, I can't find the info about that experiment. Can you please provide a link?

But even from just what you said, I can say that he will pay less than $6 for transferring the $25,000 to any place in the world, and the transaction will be confirmed within 45 minutes. Theoretically the transaction fee can be much higher than $6, but I presume his transaction will have just one input. Now, compare $150 and $6, the difference is obvious. But of course they can intentionally transfer the $25,000 in BTC from a hundred different addresses, and then the transaction having a weight of 18,000+ bytes will cost him over $450, and thus they can "prove" that Bitcoin transactions are more expensive.

Energy will never be free. Bitcoin will push prices of energy extremely high. Right now Bitcoin not  spend even 1% of all energy that is used on earth. When price of Bitcoin will be 20 times higher and many believes that will happen in only 5 years time, then more then 10 % of all energy used on Earth will be used to secure Bitcoin  network. Of course only if price of electricity stays the same.

It will only increase when bitcoin price is skyrocketing, but it does not happen everyday.
So far, the transaction fee is okay, since I can still send BTC with less than a dollar fee and it confirms in less than an hour.

Although I like it instant but we know how congested the network sometimes, if we like fast and cheap, we should switch to altcoins.

There's only two possibilities of bitcoin's fees in the future.
1. If bitcoin turns out good and becomes a legit currency worldwide, im sure government and companies will make a way to lessen the fees and become more accessible to the people.
2. If bitcoin turns out negative then it would be higher fees with less application.

I hope for the first one to happen.

has become a law of investment and crypto currency transactions, cryptocurrencies have increased, of course, transaction costs will also increase and in my opinion the value of crypto currencies with transaction costs will not incur a loss in the investment

Exactly, the fee will still be there, I think it would only be lesser since they will be using solar energy. Maintaining the mining farm may need a lot of money so if the fee will be free then I think no miners will want to mine anymore since they can't recovers their expenses.

That actually shouldn't be justified though, it is always better to develop further into solving this problem where the blockchain won't stuck with the scaling problem. So that when the mass could finally adopt cryptocurrency there'll be no problem regarding to this, maybe we take it too lightly for now but in the future we may even need a more scalable and faster blockchain.

I cant really deny on this thing.We might not able to feel it now but when adoption rises for sure there would be problems would be facing

up on near future where people would find it too hassle or not feasible for long term or for daily use.So it would end up on finding a better solution and
that maybe the time we are seeing bitcoin would be possibly replaced.

I don't think so. In the future, I don't think they would even improve their miners since btc at that time would be all mined. That means they have nothing to get back their money but only through transaction fees amd that means in the future, there will be higher fees than now. Some miners might even mine other cryptos after that.

We have to be aware that every party in.the chain should get their fair share. So transactions can't be free, this is mot sustainable. But at the moment I think that fees are reasonable and with time they will probably get lower. With new technologies and new energy sources miners will find the way to lower the costs and that will probably affect the fees.

Maybe at some point in the future, after several halvings of the block reward, the reward will be so small that transaction fees will be necessary, but not today. 12.5 BTC, the current block reward, is still much higher than all the transaction fees combined. If nobody was paying more than $0.01 per transaction, or even any fee at all, the blocks would still be mined because of the block reward.

This is a normal scenario and we don't have to complain about it, the solution to this is pretty simple, find another coin that is with cheap transaction and use it, I'm sure a lot of those coins can be found in altcoins market, and you also won't have a problem selling them as we have lots of exchanges in the market.