Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Collectibles => Topic started by: FFrankie on May 26, 2019, 09:47:55 PM


Title: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: FFrankie on May 26, 2019, 09:47:55 PM
I asked LocyeV if blockhashes where really random, and I think that is not fair for me to not share. I know this is not really the right section for this, but this is the section where raffles take place so I think most people will see it here.

If you look at the last bingo it is surprising for the numbers that came out it doesnt look like any of them are in the top 100

These are for the last character of the hashes and the last 2 characters

Quote from: LoyceV on May 18, 2019, 06:26:46 PM
~snip~

Results from the first 576000 block hashes:
36428x 2
36319x 3
36286x 1
36113x a
36108x c
36019x f
36016x 6
36001x 7
35995x d
35950x e
35925x 0
35912x b
35901x 4
35794x 8
35710x 5
35523x 9
That's a 2.5% difference between top and bottom.

Code:
2451x [b]47[/b]
2407x [b]32[/b]
2395x [b]a3[/b]
2382x [b]cd[/b]
2365x [b]73[/b]
2351x [b]f1[/b]
2348x [b]d2[/b]
2344x [b]e6[/b]
2344x [b]97[/b]
2343x [b]42[/b]
2341x [b]7a[/b]
2330x [b]f3[/b]
2328x [b]2c[/b]
2327x [b]10[/b]
2326x [b]64[/b]
2323x [b]0e[/b]
2322x [b]72[/b]
2320x [b]61[/b]
2318x [b]ce[/b]
2318x [b]71[/b]
2316x [b]8c[/b]
2313x [b]d0[/b]
2312x [b]ec[/b]
2312x [b]e2[/b]
2310x [b]b6[/b]
2309x [b]ea[/b]
2309x [b]1b[/b]
2308x [b]f2[/b]
2308x [b]ca[/b]
2308x [b]51[/b]
2308x [b]1a[/b]
2307x [b]75[/b]
2305x [b]cc[/b]
2304x [b]b0[/b]
2303x [b]14[/b]
2302x [b]18[/b]
2297x [b]87[/b]
2296x [b]fc[/b]
2296x [b]58[/b]
2295x [b]ff[/b]
2295x [b]4e[/b]
2294x [b]ba[/b]
2294x [b]b4[/b]
2294x [b]67[/b]
2293x [b]cf[/b]
2293x [b]bb[/b]
2293x [b]5e[/b]
2292x [b]da[/b]
2292x [b]81[/b]
2290x [b]df[/b]
2290x [b]aa[/b]
2289x [b]06[/b]
2287x [b]0d[/b]
2287x [b]03[/b]
2286x [b]2d[/b]
2284x [b]78[/b]
2283x [b]1c[/b]
2282x [b]56[/b]
2282x [b]4f[/b]
2282x [b]4d[/b]
2282x [b]3c[/b]
2281x [b]ef[/b]
2281x [b]e7[/b]
2281x [b]83[/b]
2280x [b]1e[/b]
2279x [b]c4[/b]
2277x [b]3d[/b]
2276x [b]d1[/b]
2276x [b]b3[/b]
2276x [b]34[/b]
2275x [b]cb[/b]
2275x [b]9d[/b]
2275x [b]9c[/b]
2275x [b]7e[/b]
2274x [b]d9[/b]
2274x [b]b5[/b]
2274x [b]9b[/b]
2272x [b]c1[/b]
2272x [b]9f[/b]
2271x [b]fb[/b]
2271x [b]b2[/b]
2271x [b]05[/b]
2270x [b]9a[/b]
2270x [b]91[/b]
2270x [b]54[/b]
2270x [b]09[/b]
2269x [b]60[/b]
2269x [b]13[/b]
2268x [b]82[/b]
2268x [b]63[/b]
2268x [b]02[/b]
2267x [b]b1[/b]
2267x [b]07[/b]
2266x [b]90[/b]
2264x [b]36[/b]
2264x [b]08[/b]
2263x [b]3f[/b]
2263x [b]0b[/b]
2262x [b]eb[/b]
2261x [b]4c[/b]
2261x [b]40[/b]
2261x [b]30[/b]
2261x [b]2f[/b]
2257x [b]a5[/b]
2256x [b]98[/b]
2256x [b]22[/b]
2255x [b]28[/b]
2255x [b]26[/b]
2254x [b]53[/b]
2253x [b]f6[/b]
2253x [b]bf[/b]
2253x [b]46[/b]
2253x [b]0f[/b]
2252x [b]92[/b]
2252x [b]6e[/b]
2252x [b]29[/b]
2251x [b]a1[/b]
2250x [b]be[/b]
2250x [b]96[/b]
2250x [b]76[/b]
2250x [b]57[/b]
2250x [b]16[/b]
2250x [b]01[/b]
2249x [b]b9[/b]
2249x [b]33[/b]
2248x [b]af[/b]
2248x [b]8d[/b]
2248x [b]0c[/b]
2247x [b]e3[/b]
2246x [b]f8[/b]
2246x [b]c6[/b]
2246x [b]ad[/b]
2245x [b]d3[/b]
2245x [b]a7[/b]
2244x [b]e0[/b]
2244x [b]6a[/b]
2244x [b]5a[/b]
2244x [b]1d[/b]
2244x [b]15[/b]
2243x [b]e5[/b]
2243x [b]d4[/b]
2243x [b]31[/b]
2242x [b]44[/b]
2242x [b]04[/b]
2241x [b]3a[/b]
2240x [b]70[/b]
2240x [b]4b[/b]
2240x [b]48[/b]
2240x [b]17[/b]
2239x [b]49[/b]
2238x [b]2e[/b]
2237x [b]a8[/b]
2237x [b]4a[/b]
2236x [b]59[/b]
2235x [b]e8[/b]
2235x [b]db[/b]
2235x [b]b8[/b]
2235x [b]94[/b]
2235x [b]3e[/b]
2234x [b]fa[/b]
2232x [b]e1[/b]
2232x [b]d5[/b]
2232x [b]8b[/b]
2232x [b]23[/b]
2231x [b]dd[/b]
2230x [b]9e[/b]
2229x [b]f5[/b]
2229x [b]55[/b]
2228x [b]6b[/b]
2228x [b]52[/b]
2227x [b]c2[/b]
2227x [b]74[/b]
2227x [b]21[/b]
2226x [b]7c[/b]
2225x [b]ed[/b]
2225x [b]24[/b]
2225x [b]11[/b]
2224x [b]39[/b]
2223x [b]bc[/b]
2223x [b]ab[/b]
2223x [b]5f[/b]
2222x [b]c0[/b]
2221x [b]43[/b]
2220x [b]e9[/b]
2220x [b]35[/b]
2220x [b]27[/b]
2219x [b]38[/b]
2219x [b]2b[/b]
2218x [b]f0[/b]
2217x [b]c8[/b]
2216x [b]69[/b]
2215x [b]c5[/b]
2215x [b]bd[/b]
2215x [b]12[/b]
2214x [b]f9[/b]
2214x [b]de[/b]
2214x [b]b7[/b]
2214x [b]7f[/b]
2214x [b]6d[/b]
2214x [b]2a[/b]
2213x [b]ac[/b]
2212x [b]a6[/b]
2212x [b]a2[/b]
2212x [b]79[/b]
2211x [b]fd[/b]
2211x [b]95[/b]
2211x [b]6c[/b]
2210x [b]7b[/b]
2209x [b]65[/b]
2206x [b]fe[/b]
2206x [b]50[/b]
2205x [b]89[/b]
2205x [b]3b[/b]
2204x [b]a0[/b]
2203x [b]93[/b]
2203x [b]6f[/b]
2202x [b]a9[/b]
2202x [b]85[/b]
2201x [b]f7[/b]
2201x [b]1f[/b]
2201x [b]00[/b]
2200x [b]d6[/b]
2198x [b]f4[/b]
2197x [b]c3[/b]
2197x [b]86[/b]
2197x [b]80[/b]
2195x [b]ae[/b]
2195x [b]25[/b]
2192x [b]20[/b]
2191x [b]88[/b]
2191x [b]62[/b]
2190x [b]84[/b]
2188x [b]7d[/b]
2187x [b]8f[/b]
2186x [b]d8[/b]
2185x [b]8e[/b]
2184x [b]5d[/b]
2184x [b]41[/b]
2182x [b]c7[/b]
2181x [b]99[/b]
2180x [b]dc[/b]
2180x [b]a4[/b]
2177x [b]d7[/b]
2173x [b]5b[/b]
2172x [b]45[/b]
2171x [b]e4[/b]
2169x [b]77[/b]
2169x [b]37[/b]
2167x [b]19[/b]
2162x [b]c9[/b]
2161x [b]ee[/b]
2161x [b]66[/b]
2161x [b]0a[/b]
2149x [b]5c[/b]
2131x [b]68[/b]
2126x [b]8a[/b]
That's a 15% difference between top and bottom.

~snip~

Loyce

~snip~

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: Kryptowerk on May 26, 2019, 10:00:33 PM
2.5% difference? Seems like normal variance on a relatively small sample size of only 576000 to me. But not sure. Will ask a pro. ;)

Interesting topic, though and especially cool, that you came up with a statistic for the lsdt characters of block hashes.

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: FFrankie on May 26, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: Kryptowerk on May 26, 2019, 10:00:33 PM
2.5% difference? Seems like normal variance on a relatively small sample size of only 576000 to me. But not sure. Will ask a pro. ;)

Interesting topic, though and especially cool, that you came up with a statistic for the lsdt characters of block hashes.

Yeah but a 15% from the last 2 characters is pretty big if you ask me, and I did not come up with this. LocevV did. I even quoted the data from him

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 01:33:58 AM
I dont get what you are getting at, are you saying that block hashes are not random?  As in they are preplanned or that certain characters dont randomly occur?....

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: LoyceV on May 27, 2019, 06:16:39 AM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 26, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Yeah but a 15% from the last 2 characters is pretty big if you ask me
There's also a much larger sample size (16^2=256). I just produced the data without applying any statistics. Plotting the numbers to see if it gives a normal distrubution might help.

Or it might be a nice test to create 576000 randon numbers from 0 to 255, then see how often each appears.
I've just used Linux default "rand" command to test this.
Result:
2381x 15
~snip~
2144x 44
That's 10% difference.

If I do it again, I get:
2384x 253
~snip~
2149x 251
That's a bit under 10% difference.

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: FFrankie on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

That will always be the case in random number generation.  I still dont get what you are insinuating.  Is it just saying the bell curve is wider than normal or that block hashes are not random.  2 completely different things

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: FFrankie on May 27, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

That will always be the case in random number generation.  I still dont get what you are insinuating.  Is it just saying the bell curve is wider than normal or that block hashes are not random.  2 completely different things

I am saying that I am picking number 2 if every raffle that I do now, and in every 2 character hash raffle I will be picking 47. I don't think its fair for not everyone to have this distribution here

I don't know what the bell curve would look like if this is mapped maybe it looks normal I got no idea.

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: LoyceV on May 29, 2019, 12:39:23 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
I don't know what the bell curve would look like if this is mapped maybe it looks normal I got no idea.
This isn't exactly the graph I wanted, but it was the fastest to make:
http://i64.tinypic.com/izc313.gif

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: wheelz1200 on May 29, 2019, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

That will always be the case in random number generation.  I still dont get what you are insinuating.  Is it just saying the bell curve is wider than normal or that block hashes are not random.  2 completely different things

I am saying that I am picking number 2 if every raffle that I do now, and in every 2 character hash raffle I will be picking 47. I don't think its fair for not everyone to have this distribution here

I don't know what the bell curve would look like if this is mapped maybe it looks normal I got no idea.

I would do the exact opposite.  If numbers are random than by extension everything should even out or get close to even so I'd pick the least hit numbers for any raffle  :P

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: Flying Hellfish on May 29, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 29, 2019, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

That will always be the case in random number generation.  I still dont get what you are insinuating.  Is it just saying the bell curve is wider than normal or that block hashes are not random.  2 completely different things

I am saying that I am picking number 2 if every raffle that I do now, and in every 2 character hash raffle I will be picking 47. I don't think its fair for not everyone to have this distribution here

I don't know what the bell curve would look like if this is mapped maybe it looks normal I got no idea.

I would do the exact opposite.  If numbers are random than by extension everything should even out or get close to even so I'd pick the least hit numbers for any raffle  :P

I mean if it's truly random neither of you are going to increase your odds of winning with those strategies!  If it is random than each "roll" is completely independent of any and all previous "rolls".  1 in 16 chance is always a 1 in 16 chance any other way and its not random any more!

If it is random, strategies don't work!

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: wheelz1200 on May 29, 2019, 01:46:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Hellfish on May 29, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 29, 2019, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

That will always be the case in random number generation.  I still dont get what you are insinuating.  Is it just saying the bell curve is wider than normal or that block hashes are not random.  2 completely different things

I am saying that I am picking number 2 if every raffle that I do now, and in every 2 character hash raffle I will be picking 47. I don't think its fair for not everyone to have this distribution here

I don't know what the bell curve would look like if this is mapped maybe it looks normal I got no idea.

I would do the exact opposite.  If numbers are random than by extension everything should even out or get close to even so I'd pick the least hit numbers for any raffle  :P

I mean if it's truly random neither of you are going to increase your odds of winning with those strategies!  If it is random than each "roll" is completely independent of any and all previous "rolls".  1 in 16 chance is always a 1 in 16 chance any other way and its not random any more!

If it is random, strategies don't work!

I know I was just pointing that out. I was half kidding I wouldn't pick any number in a blockchain raffle based on analysis, it's like going to the casino and counting what numbers comes out most on the craps table and betting it.  Psychological it makes you "feel" like you have a better chance but in reality you dont.

Title: Re: [INFO] Block Character hashes aren't that "random"
Post by: Agrawas on May 29, 2019, 03:44:35 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 29, 2019, 01:46:05 PM
Quote from: Flying Hellfish on May 29, 2019, 12:59:32 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 29, 2019, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 27, 2019, 08:22:08 PM
Quote from: killyou72 on May 27, 2019, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Lesbian Cow on May 27, 2019, 03:50:09 AM
You don't know how bitcoin works after nearly more than 4 years?


I should have said some characters come out more even tho it's random

That will always be the case in random number generation.  I still dont get what you are insinuating.  Is it just saying the bell curve is wider than normal or that block hashes are not random.  2 completely different things

I am saying that I am picking number 2 if every raffle that I do now, and in every 2 character hash raffle I will be picking 47. I don't think its fair for not everyone to have this distribution here

I don't know what the bell curve would look like if this is mapped maybe it looks normal I got no idea.

I would do the exact opposite.  If numbers are random than by extension everything should even out or get close to even so I'd pick the least hit numbers for any raffle  :P

I mean if it's truly random neither of you are going to increase your odds of winning with those strategies!  If it is random than each "roll" is completely independent of any and all previous "rolls".  1 in 16 chance is always a 1 in 16 chance any other way and its not random any more!

If it is random, strategies don't work!

I know I was just pointing that out. I was half kidding I wouldn't pick any number in a blockchain raffle based on analysis, it's like going to the casino and counting what numbers comes out most on the craps table and betting it.  Psychological it makes you "feel" like you have a better chance but in reality you dont.

Ok, let's keep it civil and not talk about Casino luck over here.. IT HURTS....  ;D ;D ;D :P :P


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