Bitcoin Forum

Seeming as everyone is hodling, how do we plan to bring bitcoin to mass adoption? No-one wants to spend it, incase of the price going up and loosing out. Yet on the  other hand, we want mass adoption. Chainalysis reports suggests  only 1.3% of transactions are payments in 2019, that's less than 2017.

Here is a video from my YT channel, covering the topic in more detail.



https://youtu.be/C17-TpYxQwY (https://youtu.be/C17-TpYxQwY)

I am asking me this Q:   8)
If everyone is holding.... and the last block is mined, supposing that on the planet earth there are more than 21mil millionaires, and each of them as a status of symbol would like to have at least 1 BTC
There will be no chance to serve them all

People are, believe it or not. It's just that not much people are. For now, bitcoin will just be used for "niche" transactions, until it gets higher liquidity hence higher price stability; then we will see it widely adopted without the usage of services like BitPay.


There will. It's just most likely going to be expensive as heck. Remember, there will always be buyers and sellers, so there will always be a chance for people to buy one full bitcoin. The question is just if they can afford it or not.

Also just to add, you. dont. need. to. buy. one. whole. bitcoin. to be able to participate and to hedge your funds.

Yeah, but having 1 whole or having 0.something is not the same for those who wanna show a status symbol
Like having a gold bar or having just a plaquette in g.  ;)

Yes. Just like having 1 million dollars in your bank account or owning a Lamborghini Murcielago is a status symbol. A lot of people like it, but not everyone can afford it. That's how the world works, and there's nothing we can do about it.

Can we finally admit that bitcoin is probably never going to be used for day to day payments? Can we finally switch to the idea that bitcoin is more like gold than anything else and stop this idea of ''mass adoption''? It's already adopted by a lot of people and companies but what more do we really want? It's not profitable for smaller companies to accept bitcoin, what do they gain from it? How are they going to deal with the volatility?

All valid points, liking it to digital gold. We just want to accumulated more. but like one of the other posts above, more liquidity, price stability and maybe it will be used as daily transactions. If it does become a store of value with what can be seen as a fixed supply, then what digital currency is used to facilitate payments.

The same for some fiat currencies.  They gain customers that cant open a bank account or forced to use the local currency.

How can you say everyone is holding? We have now a 24h volume of $20.687.254.431, which is 20 billion dollars being negotiate every day.

Few stores accept BTC for now, so it´s not easy to use it as payment method for now...

If the price crashes,everyone will stop hodling,but everyone that hodls will lose.
That's why a stable price with low volatility is the ultimate step towards mass btc adoption.
Unfortunately it's impossible to have a stable btc price.

I hear this argument a lot and they always say that a deflationary currency isn't good for an economy.  Many think that bitcoin will act more as a store of value similar to gold instead of being a daily currency in the future.

The thing is, bitcoin can be used like gold for store of value, and at the same time, as a currency for payments. Bitcoin might not be ready for "mass adoption" right now, simply due to price volatility and currently not being fast and cheap enough for day-to-day transactions, but it can come in the future. Always remember: Technology moves forward. There are smart people working in the cryptocurrency space that may have the solution to the problems we have right now.

That's just different views of each user, not all users use bitcoin as an investment only but there is people who make it as payment system and still hoping for the many merchants who accept it. Even, one of the way to make its price goes up in the future is there are many merchants who accept bitcoin and make it easier for every user to make every transaction. Indeed, if we rely on to make bitcoin price grow up but if we just it as a speculation tool it will never happen. There must be a caused for every user who uses bitcoin as a payment system until every merchants are interested in choosing it as a payment system. It's just a process, I believe the user will aware of it and he try to use it as payment system in their daily lives.

It's not a problem, if the price is rising it's a good signal, demand is increasing, that is what matters. Bitcoin usage increases within time, however its usage is already decent mainly because crypto gambling industry.
I would be worried if the price was crashing yet and if the number of crypto businesses were decreasing.

The supply cap and speculative investment aspects discourage spending, but they don't mean no one wants to spend Bitcoin. The network hit > 400,000 confirmed transactions in a day a few weeks ago. Clearly, there is growing transaction liquidity.

Bitpay also released some data (https://qz.com/931810/cheapair-and-bitpay-data-show-rising-bitcoin-btc-payment-volumes/) that suggests lots of holders begin selling after large price rises.

This is so because there literally are a few places to spend bitcoins and if there were really numerous places in which one could use their bitcoins to, believe me people would use it from time to time. Right now the focus is on speculation since that's the most active part/aspect of the coin, but once value is ridiculously high, see how people start to use their bitcoin on things and take advantage of what's served in their plates. Maybe not now but within the next few years or so.

Your doubt seems invalid mate. Please check some of the exchanges where you can find the million dollars in circulation and volume. Then how you can saying people completely hodling alone. Everyone looking for mass adoption those people what to have funds in BTC can be buy from the cryptocurrency exchanges.
I useful thought will not contribute in the form of video as well. So, I did not check it.

Holding or not, the real adoption of cryptocurrencies will be at the moment when the customer is paying in crypto, the one who is recieving crypto is not converting it to fiat, but is paying his rent, his costs of running the business, the salary to the employers, in crypto

The crucial moment would be adoption of cryptocurrencies for long-term contractual relations (especially in industry related sectors like shipyards, where you sign a contract for building a ship years before its building will start).

Mass adoption means people will have bitcoin and some them will use over time, even if not all people can have 1 BTC they will have some satoshi and use them and there are still some bitcoin to mine and also a lot of bitcoins on exchanges waiting to buy.

Holding is an investor's choice. It's our strategy to earn a good profit. Spending Bitcoin doesn't mean that we could contribute to a massive adoption. What we need is acceptance from huge companies and businesses. Massive adoption doesn't come only from investors.

Which will be most for investment purposes and not as a currency which intended to be, with more and more people who's trying to understand and wanting to invest with this market, for sure it will continue being treated like that, it will be as an investment opportunity for people who will continue to support and try holding enough amount of coins.

Those who are holding bitcoin are now booking profits and gain once the coin drops they are buying back so in this way crypto traders are gaining price margin in buy and sell

Do not worry too much, adoption is on its way that makes holders of Bitcoin forced to spend them or sell them.  Even if only 1 Bitcoin is for sale,  there will be 100,000,000 units of satoshi available to market.   The increase in value will be tempting so that those who holds them will eventually sell their BTC.   Besides there is other factor that influence the adoption of Bitcoin not just Bitcoin itself being available in the market.  That factor includes, advertisement, regulations and government acceptance.  Advertisement and government acceptance brings more impact than Bitcoin being available in the market IMHO.  See crowdfunding system, people buy and support the project even the project itself is non-existent.

Well the reason why most people are holding unto their bitcoins is because there are not much marketplaces that have built into their payment systems to accept cryptocurrencies and so many crypto enthusiasts are holding their bitcoins as an asset. The future seems bright however as there are many online platforms that have plans on accepting cryptocurrencies.

I see that speculative using of BTC always increases every time. 
and crypto adoption in the market always developing because it is driven by the utility offered, then the crypto market also always be a place to save assets from inflation.

i doint think that everyone is holding.
There are many "investors" how buyed bitcoin in the last weeks just to sell them later with profits.
So the Question is how long will they hold.


regards

When the last block is mined and still people continuing to keep hold without making it get used the demand will increase. What we hold will surely get into the market at some point, if there isn't any possible whales will manipulate. This manipulation will create panic and make small volume holders to release to the market.

First of all, I will like to say it is impossible that everyone on Earth is going to hold every single Bitcoin available on the network(not including the Lost Bitcoins). This sounds like what is all the people go to the bank to withdraw their money, of course, the banks will be closed if that happens. But if all the Bitcoins are held by individuals then the network is gonna destroy as there will be no miners and no exchange to control the price of Bitcoin.

Mass adoption does not mean that everyone should spend Bitcoin for daily purchase. For my case, hodling the BTC already means that I have adopted BTC, because my need is to use BTC as a means of "store of value" instead of "medium of exchange" and BTC perfectly fits my need.
  

In order for bitcoin to be used as a means of payment, it needs to be stable. Of course, people are in no hurry to spend it, because everyone wants to make money on it. And when he's stable, then everything will start to use bitcoin for payment.

Adoption we are talking about the involvement of bitcoin in our economy and in our daily activities. There are so many factors when comes into that. Like taxes and transportation. Education and especially for government acceptance.
Bills that can be paid using crypto will be faster and much easier and that's how I look at what adoption will looks like in the future.

You just proved his point.
That's what he said, 1.3% is used for buying stuff, rest is for in and out of exchanges (trade).

Mass adoption doesn't mean everyone will trade but that everyone will use it to buy stuff, at least that's my opinion.


We also hit 450k during December, and this wave kind proves that the increasing number of transactions has more to do with price swings that real life usage.
Another point would be that during the first semester of 2018 we actually had fewer transactions than during 2016.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to count LN transaction growth, that would be probably a better indicator of how purchases via BTC are evolving.
 

I believe the rule of supply and demand is autocorrect due to the value fluctuating whenever each side is tampered, forcing the other side to give in.  In an example of people hoarding BTC, the price of Bitcoin with increase in demand will skyrocket that will tempt holders to give in and sell their Bitcoin.  Likewise, when the holder does not give in, interest and demand will surely diminished causing the price to go down that will give holders a sense of panic and eventually release their valued BTC creating an influx of supply.  This stuff  always happen in the market, that universal law is within that system to make sure that no matter how hard people manipulate the market, there is always a balancing factor to even things out.  So I believe there will be enough supply of Bitcoin whether as a whole or as a part in the market to enable the use for mass adoption.

Yes it is already been adopted but I think we want to see it being used as one ,
There are some like me who want's to see it being used as a regular currency for payments .
But how could we see it if there are some who doesn't really wants to use it that way?

I don't think like that because I am sure that the mass adoption will happen no matter it is for a long time or in a short time. Not just bitcoin that is growing the adoption but the altcoin will have the same thing. If bitcoin cannot be used for the transaction then perhaps, there are altcoin that will help bitcoin to make the transaction so the cryptocurrencies will be a new currency.

But I don't believe that every people who have bitcoin will only want to hold their bitcoin without spending to buy something because that will make sense if they don't have much of bitcoin in their wallet, so they prefer to hold it until the price increase so high. But for people who have much bitcoin, they will spend to buy many things, and that will make bitcoin circulation continue, and the network still operates.

Exactly. Even when bitcoin was not yet as widely adopted as it is today we’ve seen it succeed already, it means that bitcoin doesn’t really need total adoption for it to reach the sky in value and besides, not everyone wants it to be used as coins from their purse to pay basic necessities in a daily basis. I really do think we must accept it as it is, it doesn’t prevent bitcoin from becoming the king of crypto by the way like this.

One of the main reason for the mass adoption of bitcoin is the number of merchants come forward to accept bitcoin automatically turns up for mass adoption the same thing happened in Japan

almost every new product/service is first adopted in Japan, than in Asia and Pacific region, Latin America & Russia, US, and so on... the last regions of adoption of new products/services are Europe & Canada

you can't say "everyone" is like this because you don't know and you have not actually asked everyone! there are lots of people that are spending their bitcoins and if you look at some of the stats that these payment processors release you can see what I mean. for example Bitpay is always releasing a huge yearly growth in both the number of merchants they added to their network and also the amount of money they have processed which is exactly the money that people are "spending" through their services. and that is in the millions and only in Bitpay, there are other payment processors and also a lot of merchants directly accept bitcoin.

The fact is not all people hold it but most people hold it,right ?

Yes, people usually want to invest on something cheap but profitable although it's very risky.
When people still invest on crypto, there must be X factor that able to attract people !

Hodling BTC is not an issue for mass adoption, it is it`s popularity,reliability, and stability that must be strengthened so that people will get amazed and be willing to adopt how BTC or crypto works. If this things will happen, the demand for BTC will get high, if that happen then maybe even 1 satoshi will worth big. 1 BTC is made of 100 million satoshi, meaning BTC`s supply is not really just 21 million if you consider satoshi.

Simple, you can use a fraction of a bitcoin, like 1k satoshi. If everyone holds, the fraction will be more valued. There's no relation between the mass adoption and holdig. In fact, holding is the key to have bitcoin another ATH.

The concept of hodl and spending of bitcoin is one of the beauty of bitcoin itself. I don't think the adoption of bitcoin as a currency would be delayed due to the number of people holding it rather than spending it, remember these coins have lots of decimals hence they can be broken into very little fractions, it means the few once in circulation is capable of covering lots of ground in terms of needs from the populace. In addition, holding has advantage in the sense that the more the number hold by people the few the number we have circulating and if demand should exceed supply hence there would be a surge in price which will in turn be beneficial to all involved.

You misunderstood the conception here. Everyone is holding but they are cashing it out, withdrawing it to buy stuffs using bitcoin payments, etc. This may enter the mass adoptation now. Yes, we are holding but when the target profit or the goal profit was reached, it is now time to decide whether to use and spend it. Or buy another btc for investment.

We can still use bitcoin as investment place because it will be worth rather than we use it as payment system. Seems like altcoins are suitable to be use for payment system since there are a lot of stable coin. As we know stable coin is same with money fiat and everyone will be understood to be use it. I doubt with bitcoin it can be use as payment system by its user, because its price has been high and fee per transaction is really high also the metter of processing per transaction need a long time .

SegWit & Lightning are the answers on processing fee & speed, so, in the future there will be more and more improvements, so, it will be more comfortable to pay with BTC

Its impossible for everyone to be a holder, there will always be some people buying and some selling, I used to make lotta mouth back in the days that I won't ever sell my bitcoin but I break that promise when Im in needy ,the fact is only those that are already very rich can hold bitcoin now for long term

holding still remains the best approach to enhance hike in prices in crypto, hodl creat scarcity which in turns increases demand vis a vis the price of such commodity. For the continual survival of the crypto space, the hodl strategy must be fully utilize.