Bitcoin Forum

So I was thinking.
According to Google, the 2013 estimates of total m2 money supply in US was 10.5 trillion. So if I owned 1 usd today that would be a so a very small percentage of the total number, yes?
But I can own 1 bitcoin today and that means I can own 0.0000048% of total btc supply..

If you think about it, 0.0000048% of total US m2 money would be 504,000 usd.. half a million

So can we say that 1 Btc = $500,000?

Lets discuss..

No, not really. The M2 money supply isn't a realistic basis for Bitcoin's value -- unless Bitcoin completely replaced all cash and fiat money savings accounts -- cash, check/savings/money market deposits, mutual funds, etc. Even then, Bitcoin's market valuation is more complex than that. I suspect Bitcoin and fiat currencies will exist side by side for quite a while anyway.

It might hit $500,000 in the coming years based on its speculative investment properties alone, but I don't think it will have such a clear relationship to the fiat money supply.

Having a small percentage of total supply in Bitcoin and converting it to the total money of the US doesn't mean that's the real or possible price of Bitcoin in fiat. The demand will always be a big factor in the price changes and USD isn't the only fiat being used to trade Bitcoin. I also think Bitcoin could be $500k in the next several years or decade but it's not because of the m2 money supply.

No because we all know that it doesn't work that way .
If you would put everything on that calculation then we would all be super rich by now all of those shitcoin would have a great value.
But it is the demand who determines the real price of a crypto not on how you calculate it.

ROFL,
You forgot the main thing that dictates the price on everymarket,the demand.You cant just simply calculate things and convert it to something,if then we all people should have been rich no one is starving no ones poor.Math isnt everything dont put money fortune on just pure calculations

If that's the calculation, people should have been millionaires now especially those who have been holding for so long. If we're holding a small percentage of the total supply, it doesn't mean that we're increasing the value of it.

It might, perhaps at some point when it matures completely, and fluctuations decrease. It could be according to that, 500k would be a ceiling, if the fiat itself wasn't inflated at 2% yearly.

So the answer would be... it might.

Might be better to use gold.  Gold market cap is $7 trillion.  By that calculation, given the presumed eventual total Bitcoin supply, a single bitcoin should be currently worth $333,333.

No we couldn't say it unless the demand for it increase and drives the price up to half Million.
If it only works the way you see it then we could all live happy and rich.
But nope the price of crypto isn't base on calculation it is by the demands of the investors.

Only 21 million bitcoins will be created. That's not even 1 BTC per millionaire in the world. And some BTC will be lost forever, so the number is actually less.

Basic supply and demand dictates it will have a future as long as adoption keeps coming. And as more investors come into the game, that's less BTC to go around as wealthier guys will want to accumulate and hold so they have better chance at controlling prices.

I don't know why you'd use gold as a comparison for Bitcoin, considering that Bitcoin is supposed to be used more as a currency, or at least a method of exchange free from the confines of fiat transactions. Plus, your method of comparing Bitcoin and Gold is flawed, as you're still pricing everything in fiat. Just compare it to fiat from the get-go and you're making a far easier comparison.

Calculations mean a lot when it comes to wealth, and you can almost predict everything wealth-related from it. Finances are based in math, and you can almost calculate every possible financial outcome using math. Demand can be calculated too, and it's used when determining a price point for a good or service in the financial world. There are entire books dedicated to the study of that one specific type of calculation.

Your calculation is wrong as both analogies don't correlect in unity measurement, fiat has to be measured with fiat as per the supply and value at a given time frame, the same with bitcoin. Fiat keeps experiencing depreciation as a result of some economic factor, while bitcoin keeps increasing in value.(it's currently very volatile)

I know using the total US m2 money to predict the price of Bitcoin market was no right but after reading the OP statement twice I now understand that the OP was actually making predictions about the possible price per Bitcoin once the total 21million coins are mine which is the reason why he mentioned "holding 0.0000048% of total btc to be supply."

If that's what the OP presume  then there's chance that his calculations are right.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

This kind of calculations don't work with bitcoin because its value is very speculative in the future and there are different factors that determine what the price will be. USD is the main currency of one of the worldest country in the world and its value is decreasing slowly because more and more supply is created every year so you can't compare that with bitcoin that had a fixed supply available.

Sounds like you have created your own calculation.
Bitcoin's value is different from fiat.
We all know that Bitcoin is volatile and it's price is indefinite compared to fiat.
Bitcoin's computation has its different menthod and so as fiat.

Your computation is based on bitcoin price has a direct correlation with USD but in fact, we are just using fiat to measure bitcoin value because it is somehow the standard measurement of value. It is still the demand that dictates the price of bitcoin.
If your statement is speculative, then it may happen one day but not because of your calculation. But because bitcoin has reached that price because of the demand.

Comparing the currencies and their respective supplies, you can say that for every 1 btc there are 500,000 dollars.
Interesting that bitcoin will never change: 1 btc will always represent the same percentage of total supply, on the other hand dollar is always changing, as they never stop printing money and increasing supply. By your calculation 500,000 dollars represent 0.0000048% of total, but in some time the same half a million dollars will represent 0.0000038%, 0.0000028%, 0.0000018%...

You are comparing apples with bananas here...
Your calculations and assumptions are completely wrong and this discussion is pointless.
The bitcoin price is the combination of btc mining costs+market supply&demand for bitcoins.
You can't compare it the m2 US supply.

Well, if this can only be true then I would not have any problem at all if 1 bitcoin can be worth half a million dollars. However, the comparison and the conclusion may not be that right especially considering that the government has the propensity to print more paper fiat. The supply of the fiat money (dollar in this case) is not a fixed thing as they keep on printing and printing especially when there can be a big crisis on the horizon. And though we usually have the dollar equivalent of bitcoin, it is not tied into it in any way.

This kind of calculations with Bitcoin does not benefit until it is realized that the value must rise to half a million and the increase in demand is determined by that

This discussion is definitely not pointless mate.
1) The OP was not self-proclaimed mad man (John McAfee ) which predicted Bitcoin to hit $1Million per coin by the end of the year 2020 and didn't say when it prediction will happen.
2) When all Bitcoin are mined the coin wikk be scarce and it demand will surpass a lot than the supply. This could make the OP prediction come to pass.

Well maybe the bitcoin should value half million USD, but this will take time and maybe only after some years will value so much but until then we can try to get some more coins and hold.

I don't think the two can be equated and you count the wrong comparisons to produce a false statement.


absolutely right, prices are determined by demand and supply where when demand is greater than supply, prices will continue to rise. And it needs to be underlined, the price is not determined by the stupid calculation as above, it is very unreasonable and it is only children's math.

I think most of you are missing the point here.

OP might have compared the scarcity of Bitcoin vs the Scarcity of USD and in that context, OP is perfectly right that 1 BTC is equal to a theoretical value of 500k USD

But for it to be practical, Bitcoin's market cap would have to be 10.5 Trillion, that is as big as the 2013's M2 money supply that OP spoke off. And since USD is constantly getting inflated, something Bitcoin will never have, by the time Bitcoin's market cap is 10.5 trillion, BTC might be well beyond the 500k mark.

Remember, this is seemingly a scarcity comparison rather than actual value comparison.

I think you are on point about the scarcity comparison..this is very similar to that tweet that went viral recently about 1 bitcoin being equal to about 700 acres of land..

~edit~

https://twitter.com/francispouliot_/status/1134970626215518209?s=12

I completely agree with You.But do not forget that each of us pleases himself with hope for a brighter future.And the author of the post is no exception.Even if the last bitcoin is extracted and there is no demand for it, it may even cost $ 500. Reality can really be harsh. And this is not to be forgotten.

Nope wrong computation we should knows bitcoin is based on the dollar rate so at this recent price of bitcoin if not wrong the 7,700$ so meaning 1 bitcoin is depends in price equivalent.

Interesting analogy , but I don't think you owning 1 Bitcoin does not mean its worth half a million USD. How can you do this assumptions and concluded that 1 BTC is equal to $500k? Please I think you should reconsider this your calculation and assumptions.

Bitcoin is not based on the Dollar rate. That would be tremulous reality. Bitcoin is exchanged for a certain value in USD, sure, but that is not because BTC is based on USD value.

However, it is important to keep in mind that this is a scarcity comparison. OP should have mentioned that under the circumstance where BTC market cap has reached 10.5 trillion usds.

That is not how the conversions work. If you're calculations are true then a lot of us are millionaires now and the whales are more richer than they are expected. There is a fault in your calculations surely.

I believe that comparing such things is absolutely not correct. In essence, the US economy stands behind the dollar. US GDP as well as debt obligations and their implementation provide the price and stability of the dollar. So there are other factors, but I will not list them. Bitcoin is an asset whose value is equal to the cost of interest to it from investors. Bitcoin is not backed by anything. Only in demand. If there is no demand for it, then it will not be worth anything. Like many of the altcoins now. With the dollar this will never happen, because the dollar is partly secured by gold, state assets and state obligations.

Best to say, if this will happen every crypto holders are lucky to receive the value amount of their hold coins, but it will take long time or it will not
happened everything will continue to depend from the demands and supports of those investors to reached much higher value.

That is only in the US my brother, think about the rest of the world. I am very positive that the next 2-3 years, we will see btc hitting its maximum value and I know that it's going to $1M or a bit less that that. The 'claimed time travellers', prophecies and even the next 5 year charts ta of several insitutions are showing a huge price of btc in the making.

If you see Bitcoin came to the market at the beginning of 2009and today's 2019 BitCoiner has completed 10 years of age. And at that time the price of Bitcoin was 6000 rupees and today for Bitcoin and Market Demand, a bitcoin is worth 5,5000 rupees which is a good result. Today, 1 bitcoin is standing at half a million rupees, but one time came when 1 bitcoin will mean 1 million, and that day will come very soon. !!!!!

The funny thing is that the US is printing $$$ like most toilet paper manufacturing industries are printing toilet paper and the Dollar is losing it's buying power, so your $500 000 will not buy you a roll of toilet paper in the near future, if things continue at this trend.  :P

It's like saying that you own 3,000,000,000 Kazakhstani Tenge, if you own 1 Bitcoin, wich might be true, but it is absolutely worthless if you look at the massive amounts of Tenge that are printed.  :P

Nice and simple analysis, now I am more inspired to hold at least 1BTC for long term.
The question that is in my mind now is when are we going to see bitcoin at that price, maybe if it will happen in 10 years from now, I can still enjoy that money, but if it takes longer, maybe I can't enjoy it anymore.

I don't completely agree with the computation because I know bitcoin price will achieved that high, provided bitcoin will be mainstream.
Imagine the big effect of the loss supply while the adoption continues, small effect for now but we shall see that big effect in the future.

It is necessary to take into account the capitalization and reputation of the coin that determine its value. Therefore, your calculations are not entirely correct. In crypto, another logic works.

This is an interesting idea, but why limit it to the American dollars, why not include the whole worlds fiat money supply, then the price of bitcoins would probably be 5 times higher than in your example.

It is impossible for bitcoin to move up. In fact, it is hard to break the resistance level at 20K dollars since it will be the highest price of bitcoin today. However, I don't know if it will happen in the future. But let us wait till the time decides for bitcoin. Maybe, soon it will rise like that once it will become the primary currency in the world.

No, in my opinion the calculation is not that simple, Bitcoin has a supply and while the USD does not. the government is running out of usd, they just have to reprint, and this is why we can't compare these two things in this way. on the other hand, interest, USD has a higher interest than crypto at the moment.

That is only possible to be assumable if in fact we replace every fiat and all other Alt coins or anything currency related that provides some sort of equal value as Bitcoin.
So no we can not mention 1x Bitcoin being $500.000 in the end ::)

In my opinion, such a comparison makes no sense. Why did you decide to equate the amount of money supply in dollars to the total supply in bitcoins? Why such a comparison can not be made to the euro, yuan, or other currency? And what is the practical meaning of this comparison? There is no relationship between the volume of money supply of any state and the volume of cryptocurrency.

be aware to listen people here.....if we compare bitcoin to the age of people bitcoin is truly only like 4-5 years baby/kid.....

i just fucking lazy to go to detiles and equation and other shit.....but people who think that bitcoin is in the peak are totally crazy and i mean this..


do you fucking know how much 1 bitcoin can worth the number is fucking astronomical and scary....ASTRONOMICAL ....

be aware to listen to uneducated people if you have great question go to some math pro teacher and he will show you the power of btc and which equation to use to get to this number...

who think he lost the train of bitcoin is sorry to say so fucking dumb and dont know anything in math and economics and other shit....

but people love to to throw shit without any deep research until they hit smart people in some table and you know how it goes from there


....

the price per bitcoin can be fucking astronomical and scary and if we compare the age of bitcoin to people age bitcoin is only 4-5 yeaars kid in this planet wait when this grow .....

i dont talk about from when the idea came ....ask math teacher

The OP is not comparing. The OP is using USD as an example for their idea. They are rather comparing the volume with the % of the currency owned. Not the volume of fiat to the volume of crypto.
It is a fair idea the OP has. They are talking about the currencies divisibility.

The idea of OP brings argument in the table.  People saw the flaw of the calculation and state their disagreement.  I too think that it is not accurate to come to that value since the actual value of a certain asset is not derive from the comparison of supply.  One may be rarer but cheaper than the abundant one because of their use case.

Part of the reason what OP said is not true not because OP is entirely incorrect, but rather because countries, businesses and individuals have not yet come to rely on Bitcoin as a functional currency like they do with the dollar. Simple.

but everything can happen, I also do not blame what you give because your calculations also make sense, but in crypto everything can happen and things that can not happen and can also not happen. but many hope that it can be realized, but the question is, when will it be realized.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency that is acceptable across the nation, likewise USD which the prize changes from time to time, Hence, BTC has no specific country, but rather calculated in USD value exchange.

The calculations made is correct, but do we get the possible market pumping to reach half a million based on this reason. Bitcoin has got established as a virtual currency that has multiple usage, but the same hasn't gained importance to be the currency same as USD all around the world other than some exceptions. When this happens all around we can think of bitcoin to be half a million dollar worth.

No man, you're using the logic in a wrong way  ;D

Bitcoin is worth the price people pay in the market, if one day people thinks BTC don't have a value, BTC will drop to 0 ( hypothetical situation )

So no, for today BTC worth 10.3k USD

Does anyone here think it could hit 50k or 100k soon?  Mcafee prediction does not look good at all...

be aware of the answers here...its much better to speak with expert economist,,,or smart people...

some here say demand its what important which is not so right... demand or not what is important is what the max supply in everything* after this you can know how much demand need to grow the price,,,without max supply or huge supply demand its waist of power ask economist

some say its not the same like paper money very wrong....its money and store of value in the same point which more great then paper money...
if it will replace money paper the answer is yes and it will happen fast...remember my words.

you are right in some sort of level because demand is nothing if there is no max supply or to much supply.

there are criminals that know to fake paper money one on one...all around the world..

1 btc can worth astronomical number  and i mean it,,,every smart economist know this....

price is grow by supply and demand but if the supply parameter is to much and can be faked easy and printed you can forget about demand....

its like to fuel car while there is hole in the car and the fuel basically cannot fuel the car, the same with money....to much supply and it can be faked by criminals and can be printed by governments , all the bad factors in one point so in other words smart economist will say you forget about demand there is hole in the system/car....

the money paper lose value over time, and crypto speed up the process and criminals print more money now to get as much possible crypto .

why you listen to not educated people ask smart math teacher or expert economist...but i will hint the price of 1 btc can be astronomical in which sound illusion as it sound illusion to bring idea like this if you get///

I think it's almost impossible to see bitcoin at half million or the bitcoin market cap as the total money supply in dollars, to see that we need half of the world involved in bitcoin, only a crazy big demand could send the price that high, and to see that will be impossible because lot of govs are against bitcoins, and people is afraid about that. People don't want to hold a coin who could give troubles.

\
dont forget zcash spiked to per coin 2.3 million dollar ahhhhh

with low supply sometime there is situation when the demand is so huge and the supply is very small and most of the people are holders which mean almost no way to buy coins....this kind of effect drive the value of the coin so high even almost no body sell them.....

in huge supply coins with billions its nver will happen and they need marketcap of trillion of trillions to get small price per coin and demand will never will be huge compare to supply in 30,40,60,100 billions coins,,,,relative to amount of people and other stuff....

but with low supply there can be efeect when the price of coin surge so hard becuase the demand is huge and the supply is low....and no body sell them its sky rocket the coin...

zcash spiked 2.3 miilon dollar per coin and was have much but much less marketcap and volume....

very interesting

few edits

with low supply sometime there is situation when the demand is so huge and the supply is very small and most of the people are holders which mean almost no way to buy coins....this kind of effect drive the value of the coin so high ,

in huge supply coins with billions its never will happen and they need marketcap of trillion of trillions to get small price per coin and demand will never will be huge compare to supply in 30,40,60,100 billions coins,,,,relative to amount of people and other stuff.... the effect that happend to zcash cannot happen on huge supply coins....simple if somebody dont get it just say i will explain more deep

but with low supply there can be effect when the price of coin surge so hard because the demand is so huge and the supply is low....and no body sell them its sky rocket the coin...

zcash spiked to 2.3 milion dollar per coin and was have much but much less marketcap and volume.... then bitcoin and others...

very interesting

few edits

with low supply sometime there is situation when the demand is so huge and the supply is very small and most of the people are holders which mean almost no way to buy coins....this kind of effect drive the value of the coin so high ,

in huge supply coins with billions its never will happen and they need marketcap of trillion of trillions to get small price per coin and demand will never will be huge compare to supply in 30,40,60,100 billions coins,,,,relative to amount of people and other stuff.... the effect that happend to zcash cannot happen on huge supply coins....simple if somebody dont get it just say i will explain more deep

but with low supply there can be effect when the price of coin surge so hard because the demand is so huge and the supply is low....and no body sell them its sky rocket the coin...

zcash spiked to 2.3 milion dollar per coin and was have much but much less marketcap and volume.... then bitcoin and others...

very interesting

I don't know if that is the right computation, mate. Only time will tell. If Bitcoin becomes the main currency of the US, then perhaps 1 BTC will reach as high as $500,000. But that would happen way beyond our lifetime here. But then, BTC will always be used alongside a handful more cryptos. That makes it less than $500,000.  ;)

I don't think that far and like a dream because to reach $ 20,000 bitcoin is very difficult and takes a very long time.
Only hopes and expectations are too high which is not necessarily achieved and if indeed that happens in the future I think there will be many new rich people because the value of bitcoin reaches $ 500,000

That calculation is wrong I guess, the total supply of Bitcoin and Dollars are different, not to mention the value, if you btc owning equals to certain thousand dollars of ownership in dollars' total supply doesn't necessarily means that the value of bitcoin will be that much. This calculation just doesn't make sense to begin with.

Hey
First thing you need to think about the first and foremost rule that is *the buying and selling influenced by the demand and supply rule * the market value is influenced by the demand and supply rule which actually states how high or how low it trades at a particular time .
You can even buy and sell the same amount of Bitcoins for varied number of amount in fiat.
You should understand that what you just did isn't right , this way most of the people out here are millionaires.

I think there is a possibility someday that this dream will turn into reality all of us will become maillionaires. 1 BTC is $500,000 this is wow awesome. But its all depend on the demand and supply of the cryptocurrency coin like bitcoin when the demand is high there is a chance that there is a lot of buyers and investors. When the supply is not enough the price will go down. There is a thing called risk when it comes to this kind of money.

It might come true someday but it will take more time to get to that value and i strongly believe that it will gonna happen someday at least we are still alive to witness it. Bitcoin is the future if you are planning for long-term investment and this half a million dollar for a single Bitcoin will come true someday. Today it's just a dream that we keep on praying that might happen soon.

hey mate and nice to meet,

when you say this : Yes but the supply here is limited, much more limited than any natural resource. In the diamonds industry what they did was create an artificial short supply of diamonds.

i get it and you are right 100% but the are diamonds that can be created in lab which i didnt talk about, i talk on very few ** rare diamonds real which was founded on this planet and tried to explain what happen to price in different situation. but you right 100% there is inifinty of diamonds that created in lab.

and yes bitcoin is limited like real diamonds and gold BUT ... there is equation that can show that relative to gold and diamond the supply of bitcoin is far away rare and low, ask math teacher.

it cannot be balance its only will go up it cannot go the other way bro just cannot Smiley


diamond and gold have value because x amount of people agree on this and this have limited supply BUT...

bitcoin:
1. have much less supply then gold/diamond and limited supply
2. its store of value and cash
3. peer to peer -->> here is the real value of bitcoin we can send money to each other wihtout middle man its put all the banks and paypal and other shit out of the game.

fucking unbelivable yehhhhhh

then you say: Here since everything is automatic and is decentralized then something like this would be really hard to be accomplished, that without mentioning the moral aspects of the decision.

Everything here will eventually balance, and the supply will be a lot less than the demand eventually.


this answer to much general and not specific and dont have direction to what lead this statement,,,,,,lets look why: by this we train each other have more sharp logic...

we go in parts from your last statement:

you say: Here since everything is automatic and is decentralized then something like this would be really hard to be accomplished,

my answer: yes its automatic and decentralized and why it will be hard to accomplish???  look on peer to peer file sharing its the oldest tech out there and while other techs was die and new come and other things changed peer to peer file sharing only was growing like monster....i will hint the future is peer to peer in almost in anything....so i dont understand why it will be hard to  accomplish and how its connected to the diamond example.

otherwise history will show different results , when centerlized tech info was everything was download from few main servers , not think how much powerful this servers need to be to hold 1b computers download software and mp3 and movies and other shit, not talking about security aspect which is very critical in ceneterlized tech....compare to decentralized tech where everything is spread...the most close answer after trying to understand you in this.

then you say: Everything here will eventually balance, and the supply will be a lot less than the demand eventually.

something very wrong with this statement because balance cannot be in this equation lets look why??

supply for sure is very low of bitcoin compare to gold/diamonds(relative) and it its not only store of value its also cahs which surge the price only from this factors and make it less balance until it will get to the pick which is huge astronomical number,

when you say: supply will be a lot less than the demand eventually.

the supply already lower much more then demand because there is only 21 million coins mate, so i dont get the direction of this statement.

i will sum it bro remember we learn from each other Smiley

bitcoin its not only store of value like gold/diamonds which mean selling rate fro gold and diamonds always will grow with the time because you cannot buy cars,clothes,houses and other shit with gold/diamonds and this is why the value over time will have down curve time ask any expert economist,

compare to bitcoin which is store of value and CASH system which mean very** soon startups like zeex and another one which come from japan will lower the selling rate of crypto overall and will surge the prices up compare to gold and diamonds which always need to be sold in order get value that accepted everywhere(cash called), and the rate of selling daimonds and gold will always grow up and all the gold and diamonds(to much) never can be sold which mean alot of people stuck with them which also hurt the price per gold/diamonds,,,,

so this kind startups going to kill the selling rate of crypto which hurt this industry,  and this effect going to surge the prices up very high(only low supply coins)

when this effect happen when the selling rate go to zero level and surge the prices of low supply coins its give the illusion that demand grew but demand didnt grew its because the selling rate was fall drastically because people dont convert it to paper money like gold and diamonds, they buy with it directly

and this effect surge the prices up because you dont sell them you exchange sound very close but very different, and why it give the illusion that demand grew and in reality demand didnt grew its because price almost always grow when there is huge demand.

so this one effect which affect on the price of crypto selling rate which will go to zero very fast,

then in the same time demand is going to bombard i mean to explode why??? i dont tell i leave to other play with this factors and their logic and train the mind because its between the lines why demand going to surge also...

i will give hint 8-9% inside this game of crypto  so crypto is very samll kid compare to age humen like 9 months kid ...but why demand going to explode i will not answer but the answer is between the lines

all this effect work on small supply coin only not satble coins and huge supply project with billions of coins

..
 ;D ;D ;D

That calculations are wrong bro.You can do magic theories,But bitcoin going with exchanges market rates.If you are theory is correct you should able to get a half of million USD,when you selling the bitcoin.Can you get that? They only pay current market prize.Which going up and down bitween 10K-13K.

$11,000 is already a dream come true.   No need to be greedy.

Multiply that by 2 or 3 times, that can be easily achieved by 2020.

For people who invested in bitcoin when the price was well below a thousand dollars it is a dream amount, the million dollar valuation dream comes from people who missed the boat, i am lucky enough to accumulate the coins when the price was really low and i am glad i made my decision to hold the coins for the long term and not everyone made those decisions in time and if they enter when the price is already high the only dream they can see is the price of bitcoin reaching those crazy valuation to have the same amount of profit earlier investors had and so is the main reason we see those kind of predictions quite often. I am not expecting the price to reach those valuation anytime soon.

No, 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin

Why the fuck is fiat still relevant? Have you learned nothing?
Watch for 7 minutes. Bitcoin: Beyond The Bubble - Full Documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LszOt51OjXU

Ignore Milton Friedman at the start he does not exist anymore anywhere because of his ignorance. Fucking human turned orc turned goblin turned nothing.

tHE CALCULATION SHOWN HERE IS ASSUMPTION, AS BITCOIN IS HIGHLY VOLATILE AND WE CAN'T PREDICT IT; IT CAN MOVE FROM HALF MILLION TO 1 MILLION ANY TIME ;D

I can't see calculations like this make the benchmark that the price of bitcoin can be that high. because calculations like you do for me are confusing and of no relevance. bitcoin calculations are already moving on their own.

That's really a big value for a single bitcoin. However high the demand, such a increase in value will not be reached. If that's reached surely there will be huge opposition from the governments fearing it might cause some negative impact on the economy of the country. Moreover after mining the miners gets rewarded for the transaction, and for frequent use people expect fair fee. If the fee increases the usage will decrease. This way more contradictions were there to have the price within specific price.

That might be a dream come true for you, but not for me. Till bitcoin is $50000 before i can say that it is a dream come true.

bitcoin and conventional money are not the same although both can be used for transactions. so, if you calculate that 1 bitcoin = $ 500K is very unlikely. I say this because the source and total supply of the two are very different. but if is only your dream, i accept it cause this is my dream and hope too ^^

An interesting calculation, it looks realistic and, in principle, the price of Bitcoin can rise to this level and it is quite possible that the global crisis will contribute to the adoption of Bitcoin, but this is only an assumption. A Bitcoin price of around $50,000- $60,000 looks more realistic for a year or more.

Given the strong resistance of government representatives from different countries, the price of Bitcoin may never rise very high. Constant manipulation and resistance may prevent the price from rising to $500 thousand. But I belong to those people who believe that the price of Bitcoin can reach $1 million in a few years.

I don't see very strong resistance of governments against Bitcoin. In a nutshell, as long as Bitcoin isn't forming a direct threat to their fiat currencies, which it currently doesn't, they will not try to stop it through legislation. Bitcoin's digital Gold nature is perfect to have it grow further. It will be a useful tool for governments as well. :)

Constant manipulation? How? Where? Can you list one actual fiat to Bitcoin exchange where this manipulation is happening at? The only obvious form of manipulation happens on unregulated shitcoin exchanges through wash trading and altcoin pump and dumps.

So many people complaining about manipulation yet not one single breakdown of what this manipulation is. ::)

Everyone with their level of satisfaction, to him it might be a dream come true because he probably invested at a very low value which I agree with him that it would be greedy of anyone that invested when bitcoin fell to like $4000 to still not be satisfied with the current development of bitcoin.

We can understand with some people that bought at a very high rate, most especially those that bought when the value was at its All-time high some years back, they probably would never see this as a satisfactory price because their investment is still tied to a particular value and until they see that value before they can start having the mindset same as him too, I guess you must be among the ones that invested at peak, your dream can also become a reality too.

But the question is,would  bitcoin would be valued or having an entire cap of 10.5 Trillion too? I don't think so and that's why making up such basis or comparison is senseless.

Our understanding of cryptocurrencies is still imperfect. We know the maximum number of Bitcoins  (21 million) and the velocity of circulation of major currencies. However, we do not know how widely Bitcoins will be distributed in the future, how often operations with them will be performed, and for what purposes they will be used. Thus, Bitcoin can cost 20 dollars but half a million can be also a possible price.

If we were lucky enough to see Bitcoin valuing around a million of half a million, the market cap of the coin will of course be very huge then. In trillions. If you follow John McAfee on Twitter, you would know from him that the coins will value half a million in 2020 otherwise he will eat himself. And mind you John has made a fortune in Bitcoins since the start and predicts stuff to a good precision.

its possible for btc to reach that amount but it is impossible for btc to soar or pump without any hindrances   .

not only on btc but on almost all of the coins there were many factors that could affect thier growth  .

 one of the popular factor is pure manipulation  , you think the price rise or drops normally ? well think again  . its not caused by a regular buy and sell but manipulation is done by huge whales   .  being volatile is nothing without these so called manipulations 

When i start this thread bitcoin price so low. now so high.. why is the price rising? anything new happened since I last log in?

You've created the thread five months back. In cryptospace five months is a good time period to experience big change. The market change this time has happened on the positive side, by the same time there are chances of negative trend. This is all associated with the increase in the real-time usage of cryptocurrencies as well as the positive speculations than the circulation of negative news associated with cryptocurrencies.

Nothing too significant has happened, but the price of bitcoin was simply too low and investors began accumulating it and this created an upward pressure and since so much time had passed investors were willing to take the risk of buying bitcoin once again, this changed the market sentiment and eventually the price grew very rapidly and now bitcoin is a lot closer to what I could consider its real price so there is not much of an advantage to buy it or sell it.

We can only say this thing because we have seen some increase on prices on that particular time frame but we know that these cases arent fitted out on yearly or from time to time. Try to compared on what happened on last year? Yes, we do see some sideways movements or tanking market for how many months passed.So we can actually presume
that reaching those high numbers arent really that realistic for us to hope for.We've seen countless speculations which leads to numbers which i dont even know on how they do
consider it out.

Nice math you have their, I could agree with that, and the price equivalent of BTC might just continue to increase once we hit that big adoption because we are not really talking about the total supply here but the circulating supply and its known to us that there are a big portion of supply already that is lost in circulation, so that would result to reduce of supply while the demand continue to increase.

Full adoption means that demand will go to the moon, with so high demand the price should be very high too. It will take time to get there, and we need to be patient. This is a possibility, and many of us believe in that outcome in the future. We don't know the real value of Bitcoin, it can worth a lot one day, everything depends on that adoption and increasing demand, if that happens, we can see a very high price of Bitcoin.

For sure there will be more people believe on it but we cannot eliminate the fact that it's impossible for Bitcoin to rise up to half million per 1 BTC since imagine how much market cap needed before we can get that and for sure volatility strikes and it will stop the rise since huge ehaled are earning with day trades nowadays. And also the manipulation is one of the factor that we cannot see that figure maybe we should guess a more lower price since it's the best figure to point on.

Depends on who you ask, there is not mathematical "worth" of bitcoin. Is it equal to half a million dollars right now?

It is not, right now it worth around 9 thousand dollars and that is all you can buy or sell it for, if you "feel like" it could one day worth that it is your own opinion and nobody has to agree with you, most people (almost all) do not believe it worth half a million dollars because if they did that would mean they would buy as many bitcoins they can to somehow make money, since they don't believe that they are not buying it at that pace neither so there is absolutely no way to know if bitcoin worth that much one day but we all know it doesn't worth that much right now, anyone who says otherwise is welcomed to buy my bitcoins from half a million dollars price.

We can’t say that for sure most especially if bitcoin will experience full adoption, the price now maybe very far from the half million speculation but who knows it will really reach that amount in the next years. It is still to early to say it is impossible to happen because we are not in the future yet. Will cross the bridge when we get there, will just hope for the best.

Nope it is around $8500. Losing value slightly last week. Lets hope for the best in next weeks.

i think prices bitcoin can rise to those high level 100000 usd----250000 usd per btc in the future maybe after 2 year or less than. and for sure 1 bitcoin equal 500000 usd per btc if dont sell your bitcoin and you hold for long term ; there are some traders say 1 btc equal 1btc ; for this reason they are right

2013 - 2017 from the price of hundreds of dollars to tens of thousands of dollars approaching around $ 20k, 2017 - 2021 I share the thought of what if the current lowest price of thousands of dollars is still below $ 10k so what if the lowest price at this time thousands of dollars will go where after 2021? is it possible hundreds of thousands of dollars, we can only speculate but the reality will answer every post that I write a lot in this forum

I've never found the logical analysis from crypto experts that bitcoin will reach that value in 2 years or less. I know that everything could happen in crypto even it could reach 1mil each bitcoin in the future, but to make a prediction we have to followed our prediction with some analysis so people will trust us and buying some. Anyway let's hope this come true and the holder's future will be bright

Bitcoin is a unbelievable growing coin on further years, It is acceptable so it will raise more than 50 percentage also possible on soon and your prediction is too much high on short term so investors are not accepted. I think once it will globalized we see some small pump and dump so we don't predict when it will possible on crypto market.

There are only a few million bitcoin holders around the world so we are still a minority, if we got that number to 10 or 20 millions the current value of bitcoin could easily go up to 4 or 5 times its current price but that will take time and even more importantly we need that people understand why we have bitcoin, they do not understand why we have a coin that does not exist physically and that is not created by the government or any centralized entity, but when the economy begins to have problems they will finally understand.

I truly recommend the following study when it comes to the number of people adopting the technology https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/research/centres/alternative-finance/downloads/2017-global-cryptocurrency-benchmarking-study.pdf

Research produced by University of Cambridge estimates that in 2017, there were 2.9 to 5.8 million unique users using a cryptocurrency wallet, most of them using bitcoin.

That is a bit strange given the fact that 2017 was known not only for a high btc price, but even more insane altcoin prices. ETH at $1k and even something as obscure as Experience Points (XP) had enormous value. About $800 worth of XP today was nearly $5000 back in Jan 2018 which was its peak price.

For me that was quite astounding to see a shitcoin doing so well. There are probably other better examples that I am unaware of.

Most likely this has to do with the fact that at the beginning the coin that you are more likely to buy is bitcoin and for that you need a bitcoin wallet, however once you understand that in this market there are many other coins other than bitcoin then you begin to invest in some of those coins, so even if in 2017 altcoins went up a lot more than bitcoin only a minority of investors decided to invest in them and after the market crashed many gave up on altcoins and are probably only holding bitcoin.