Bitcoin Forum

"Buffett also said he would steer clear of bitcoin. Buffett said the cryptocurrency is an effective payment system, but “so is a check.” The idea that bitcoin has some “intrinsic value is just a joke.”

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2014/03/14/warren-buffett-dont-dump-stocks-on-china-or-ukraine-and-stay-away-from-bitcoin/?mod=sfmw

Well... It's too late for some of us to stay away now.

Remember, this is the same guy that said to avoid investing in internet companies.

This is harsher than his internet company diss.  That was more along the lines of "I personally wouldn't invest in a business I couldn't understand".

He also made his internet comment right before the tech crash in the late 1990s...

Whenever I want tech advice, I always ask a senior citizen.  :-\

If you could argue back, you could point out the intrinsic value of the us dollar is a joke as well, but it seems to work as method to store value and is the backbone of the US and much of the world's economy.

I really think there's no such thing as bad press for bitcoin.  As long as people keep talking about it, people will eventually adopt it as time goes on -- when they realized it is still around and working as intended after all those years.

Indeed - This Buffet is an idiot.
Do not worry about him...

"Remember, this is the same guy that said to avoid investing in internet companies."
:) Warren Buffet is a caveman :)
http://greece.greekreporter.com/files/geico-caveman-lg.jpg(no offence to Mr.Caveman)

Dear Mr Buffet,

you should read this:


the markets need not care about your lack of understanding.

All intrinsic value is real and all intrinsic value is a joke.  However some items have more intrinsic value than others.  It's pretty much a spectrum.  On the one end are US Dollars and Gold.  At the other end are Beanie Babies and Tulips.  Where BitCoin will end up?  Who knows.  But he's not wrong at all to say this.  Buffet likes safe investments that he knows he can add value to.  He looks for companies that he can either turn around with new management, or companies that are currently being undervalued by the market.  BitCoin is not that.  BitCoin could become the currency of the future.  It could also die as fast as MySpace did.

Do you not know who Buffet is?  He may be wrong, but he's far from an idiot when it comes to investing.

The ironic thing is, the whole "lack of understanding" comment was exactly the same thing that that people made fun of Buffet for right before the tech crash.  Buffet said the companies were being overvalued because the cash flow didn't support the valuation.  People laughed at him for not understanding new financial metrics like "value per page views".

Then most of those people promptly went broke.

 :D there's a point there...

meh.  Warren is a pretty smart guy to say the least, and a lot of people listen to him.

on the flip side, cryptocurrency is clearly an innovation that is labeled as such by a lot of people that understand tech at a much higher level than Warren does.

Bill Gates, The CEO of Paypal, the Director of Ideas for Google, the people at Chase that tried to patent a similar system.  That list is long and growing and populated by tech minds and payment systems people.  There's something here in terms of an innovation, no question about that.  On that level, I don't give a shit if someone thinks it's a great store of value or not or whether it actually is or not.  It will grow based on that innovative driver and, just like all things, as people get used to the idea.  

When he talks I listen, as he has kicked ass for decades, although I think he's wrong on this one...

Yes I know who he is..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Warren_Buffett_KU-crop%2Cflip.jpg/433px-Warren_Buffett_KU-crop%2Cflip.jpg

And He was born in 1930.

Ok - I am sorry he is not an idiot.
He just do not like IT technologies :P (EDITED : perhaps he did like IBM:P)

anyone remembers this sentence from warren buffet:

"stay away from gold"


meanwhile - warren buffet buys tons of gold


 ::)

Dinosaurs are extinct for a reason.   :D

So far everyone has revealed themselves to be ignorant. Warren Buffet is not some aging idiot who doesn't know exactly what he is doing.


But you're also wrong that he thinks its a bad investment. Warren Buffet is probably the most undeserving of a good reputation in the whole of the world I can think of. He is 100% a crony capitalist masquerading as some kind of lovable old long term value investor like Mr Monopoly.


Warren Buffet was bailed out in 2009 or he would now he collecting unemployment benefit and for that he is paying back the global elite and US government be it ridiculous advice about how he wants to pay more tax when he pays himself a pittance so to avoid it or making high profile criticisms of Gold and now Bitcoin. His last big deal was he invested billions in the railways just before his buddy Obama decided not to allow keystone pipeline therefore needing loads of trains, cue gas explosions in small town America, trust me he really is that much of an asshole.

He is, was and will die a crony capitalist, his criticism of Bitcoin which is a threat to the global elite is just part of his role.

http://www.c[Suspicious link removed]m/id/22130601

His 4th largest investment is a $12.5B holding in IBM.

silly people personally attacking Buffet because he criticized bitcoin.. everyone is entitled to their opinion. Fact is, since there are now hundreds of altcoins I've pretty much stopped caring about cryptos. They are not scarce in the fact that anyone can create another one at any time and the only thing that makes one worth 'more' than another is people's willingness to give it value.

Yes, tech crashed so hard that today no one invest in anything internet related anymore. It is not like i am typing this on an internet forum after all.

A dinosaur is warning against the meteor impact that will wipe him out? Sure old man, sure we will listen to you.

The irony and depth of wisdom of your description of one of the richest men on the planet as you type from your cheap PC in your parents basement is duly noted.

You're obviously not a Ron Paul supporter. lol

How much you worth smart Jack?

I agree with Mr Buffett.
Bitcoin should be used as a payment system, not as a currency.

Ok ok :)
You got me. IBM is IT company indeed :P

So when he is telling to stay away from Bitcoin we should listen to him?:)
http://www.marcinkozbial.host56.com/bebe.png

He was not tempted to buy into the it-bubble around 99/2000 and survived the it-crash while other investors lost billions.
He got many billions, how many do you have?
So don't underestimate him.

The markets don't care about you. While they often jump on the words of that old fool you are describing. Bitcoin is a tiny market so far. I'm a believer in it but you got to face reality so far...

This.

Buffet's anti internet comments were made when no one had a clue how to monetize the internet, and no one had a clue what they were buying.  For every Amazon.com, there was 100 more Pets.coms.  There was even a garbage truck company that simply added the word Tech to the end of it's name, and it's stock price went soaring, even though the company had absolutely nothing to do with the internet or with technology.  When he made the comment, he was 100% correct.

Agree and anyone else who says the 2nd richest man from investing in the world is a terrible investor needs to look at their opinions and realize they are sh$t.

Intrinsic value is a myth.  All value is subjective, not guaranteed as the word intrinsic suggests.  Anything that has value has one requirement to attain that value; people.  Humans are required to collectively place value on something.

Declaring cheques to be an effective payment system is a fine example of the ridiculousness of the US financial system.

He invested in IBM because IBM was a service company with positive cash flow, hence, low risk. He sold IBM shares later, maybe he found out it was a high tech company.

Past performance doesn't reflect future performance, a lot of companies were successfull but then failed hard

I guess he's trying to pull bitcoin price down so he can buy a lot of cheap coin  ;D
His first attempt 2 weeks ago was not successful, Bitcoin price raised 15% in one day after his negative statement toward bitcoin  :D

Dude if he invested in Bitcoin it would cause a massive rally, he could easily make money from this shallow market. He has motives not to, but suggesting he has lost his investment mojo is silly.

Lets imagine Bitcoin became massive, what do you think for one thing that would mean for his dollar denominated stocks?

And he even might have a point that Bitcoin is more of a currency than a store of value. Not because it doesn't store value over the long term but that its volatile. In a perfect world I would use Bitcoin as a transport medium and precious metals as backing and store of value.

1. He say consumers and merchants (he was not referring to investors in BTC) don't use it as a unit-of-account nor store-of-value, i.e. don't retain their cash in Bitcoin, and only cash in/out from/to fiat using as a money order.

2. He doesn't think duplicates can be prevented which dilute its value.

3. He doesn't expect a worse economic crash than 2008 in next few years.

---

Please remember #3, because he will be highly embarrassed on this one. He is wrong.

On #1, I have to somewhat agree with him, but we are preparing to change this by making features that a fiat economy can't do (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.msg5688388#msg5688388).

On #2, the network effect will take over much more strongly when the prior sentence is implemented.

For everyone that doesn't know, this could be a marketing ploy, for him to buy up Bitcoin and watch it's value rise, Or it could be genuine. Who knows.

Buffet is billionaire - you aint.
end of discussion.

don't be a bitch , i'm sure he knows wayyyyy more than you(behind the scenes) about our desert oasis!!! ;-) LOL!!!

^SHA256 where did dat ish come from? hmmmm =) haha

Well this is not for old generations.

As far as I can tell he was quite positive about bitcoin this time around.
The fact that bitcoins doesn't have intrinsic value is a no brainer really. Its what the bitcoin represents, or what you can get for it that has intrinsic value.

What dumb ass ageist thing to say. I know plenty of 20 year olds that have laughed at the idea of Bitcoin. While you have people like Ron Paul recognize its ability to become a major force. Seems like sexism, racism etc is jumped on these days but people can be ageist without a single person questioning it. Age doesn't mean ignorant, you posting that however means you are.

Many others besides Warren Buffet predicted many things that come out dot on. Before Lehman Brothers, say just 3 years after the Nasdaq bubble burst when the authorities had to pump up the stock markets (2003), many people already warned about the coming housing bubbles. People too were openly saying the 'strongest' US banks like BoA, and some others heavily invested in derivatives, had  zero net worth. It was proven in 2008 when BoA/Citi's shares drop to a dollar a piece. So there are smart and sharp people around all the time, not just Warren Buffet. We too can list many, many stupid bums around.   

God created the world and also, at this point in time, gives permission for Bitcoin to come into being - according to His image. The image and design just happens not to be compatible to the image of what Warren Buffet think is a huge BTC making opportunity - so he cannot partake of its grace, Opps! So the right thing for him is that he should not get involved; or he could not get involved, at least not at this point in time.

Buffet got it right about the bursting of the Nasdaq tech bubble and so did many, many others. With some hindsight, not rocketscience, Tech companies are just corporations and any corporation building on hope may vanish if reality finally deviate far from the initial hope and wish. Bitcoin is indeed a completely different beast and Buffet's whole "lack of understanding" is correct - at least in my view and opinion. No one person or organization, in general, can control the character of bitcoin or the way it would develop. Open source means it is truly democratic, decided only through the consensus of the internet - and the internet means the whole world nowadays!

Intrinsic values are relative as all of us know and even talking about the intrinsic values of things is extremely boring. Just say, for simplicity, that value, like beauty, is only in the eyes of the beholder or valuer. (Stupid) People can say whatever they like about why something with no "real" existence like 1 bitcoin should never be valued almost equal to half an ounce of gold. Why should it not be? Can anyone answer. Or can anyone give the true valuation of bitcoin as at today. Warren Buffet too don't have an answer. We have to decide for ourselves what the value of bitcoin should be or whether it has a future.

true visionär  ;D

Dollar does not have intrisic value really, that's why 1 dollar is worth nothing more then one dollar and you can only obtain thru' your work that has a value to others.

People are pissed, but Warren just said a fact.

Bitcoin is just a money transfer system. A valuable technology if it were not open source. The currency aspect is fictional, and does not have any INTRISIC value.

As for "Scarce", it is not. One bitcoin contains 100 million satoshis, and can be changed in the source or swtching to other system of same technology.

I have none :-)
But because of bitcoin many people get rich. Isn't?
I just underestimate him as a bitcoin expert (and IT expert).

just another NWO puppet. completely irrelevant.

Warren Buffett is being generious with his praise of Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the tulip of the 21st century, destined to be obliterated by a better-implemented altcoin.

And a leading member of the Illuminati. lol

Maybe :-) but we will show them our NWO.

Anyone calling Buffet an "idiot" clearly does not understand the history and depth of this man's successful long history of entrepreneurship and investing.

But his long-time success does not preclude him from being wrong, as he was with internet investments not so long ago.

Clearly he appears to be wrong again.

I wonder how much of this recent statement regarding Bitcoin comes from him directly, and how much comes from his advisers.

Ahahah, really?

This happens when some guy which has not born playing videogames tell you things about disruptive technology.

Oh my god, another florist. Please explain to me what has a flower to do with Bitcoin protocol? Can you send with your tulip on sunday at 1pm money from China to USA without middle-man within 1 hour almost for free? No? So stop comparing it...you guys with your tulips. If you really believe it is the same, why are you even here man/woman? Your comparison is just stupid, i am sorry to being rude.

hereeee we gooooo >>

http://images2.bidorbuy.co.za/thumbnail/458/2264458/2264458-2668276271-l.gif


*~=)

If he will be wrong (if bitcoin will have 100x more value than now for example - so investors would make money), can we remember these moments and THEN call him an idiot please?  ::) If he will be right, we will all be just idiots here anyway, so what does it matter :-X

Bitcoin has outperformed Berkshire Hathaway. Warren Buffett bought BRK at $8 in 1962 by 2013 it peaked at $178,900, an increase of 2,236,250%. Bitcoin went from $0.01 to $1243, a 12,430,000% move in 4 years.

Buffet is an investor, not a speculator.
Investing in bitcoin now is just pure speculation.
He would never invest in something he is not sure it will still exist in 10 years.
Plus if you buy bitcoin and you don't sell them, you don't get any dividends.

Well that excalated quickly

stay away from Buffet and his theories if you don't understand them. just keep investing in bitcoin to prove him wrong.

because he fears that people investing in bitcoin will devalue his assets?
lets take a moment and remind ourselves that everyone is selfish.

I used to have a lot of time for Buffett.

Not any more though and it has nothing to do with his position on Bitcoin.

Bank of America/Merrill Lynch - 5th largest investment
Wells Fargo & Co - Largest Investment
JP Morgan - Owns shares

His influence in bringing about TARP to save his own arse is the pinnacle of cronyism.

Like it or not, TARP and the other bailouts saved everyone's arse.

I respect Warrens opinion he doesn't invest in the tech sphere because he doesn't put money in things he does not understand
Since he doesn't understand bitcoin he will miss it like the rise of the internet age
But for him it does not matter his fortune is from doing what he knows best so I would say to let him be

I call bullshit and please define "everyone"?

Depositors and creditors should have been completely wiped out.  No exceptions.
The bastion of capitalism turned into a corporate/crony cluster fuck.

If you want to throw Keynes and a social conscience into it for the retirees and "mum & pop" investors, the US could have written checks for $0.50 in the $1 for anyone with assets under $2million.

The printing done each month to "save us" could have bought you a complete universal health care system for everyone of your citizens with change left over.

His analogy comparing bitcoin to a paper check doesn't fit. Bitcoin is a more than a money transfer system; it's a protocol within itself.

Edit: And it has the potential to cut into the profits of the corrupt banking system. That alone makes it valuable to me.

The tech crash didn't happen until after the 90's were over.
If he made the comment "right before the tech crash", then we are talking the year 2000 (late Spring/Early summer)

1. Picture a complete freeze in lending, and a lack of access to cash.  No one can buy cars or houses.  People with no cash on hand couldn't buy anything.  Stores can't stock shelves or pay employees.  Forget just the banks, every company from GE to local mom and pop shops would be under within a month.  Tens of millions would suddenly find themselves out of work.  You'd have mass riots in every major city in the nation.  If we were lucky, we would be living in a state of martial law.

2. And as for your ridiculous solution, is this something you actually spent more than 2 seconds to think up?  Honestly, how long do you think it would take for the government create this plan, to identify these people, and to mail them checks.  A few months?  A year?

3. What money was spent?  In the end, the banks paid the money back, so what money could have been "saved" for a better use?

"Stay away from bitcoin" if.. you want to stay away from profits

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS HE COULD WISH BITCOIN INTO THE CORN FIELD ANYDAY!!! ~HE MUST LIKE US !!!

;-)

JMHO!

All he says is invalid.

This post will be worth a Billion $'s someday.   :D

This entire premise is based on the fact that new players will not enter the space that just appeared.

Riots? Martial Law?  You have got to be kidding.  This reeks of statist fear-mongering.

Not even the great depression brought on Martial Law.

As opposed to giving reward to the stupid and losers?  Now that was ridiculous and down right evil.

And as for your time frame, there is this tech called a database that  Dr Codd nailed for us in 1969.

As a real world example, the Australian government gave out $800 dollars to every tax payer directly into their bank account within 3 weeks.  It's not hard.
It was a perfect Friedman helicopter drop.  Minimal implementation cost and only a few dead people wasted it.


The opportunity costs that the US lost by keeping the dead wood alive is immeasurable.  You are currently experiencing a "long slow painful recovery" due to propping up zombie businesses.

ROFL QFT!

Wanna know another Buffet quote?

"When others are greedy, be fearful. When others are fearful, be greedy."
-Warren Fuckin Buffet

I think the old man should consider his own advice in this matter.

The 'tulip' that most people refer to is the tulip bulb bubble, or tulip mania, that occurred in Europe. The peak of the bubble was in March 1637, with "some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman." The tulip bulb bubble and the potential Bitcoin bubble. ;)

More info can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania) or http://www.investopedia.com/features/crashes/crashes2.asp (http://www.investopedia.com/features/crashes/crashes2.asp)

Normally I'd agree with him because he's one of the best investors/economists on the planet but...in this case he just sounds like a rambling senior citizen that doesn't understand the internet and its related technologies.

Indeed the old tangible capital world is going away folks... and Buffet will die just-in-time to fade away with it...

I also knew in 1999 that the dot.com crash was coming because I was trying to buy PPC advertising for my CoolPage.com (had million users at that time, roughly 1% of the internet) and what I saw was the ROI on advertising was negative for any profitable business, thus there was massive overinvestment driving the ad prices too high.

So when Homepage.com offered me $1 million in stock options to take over CoolPage.com, I declined. I took a couple hundred thousand instead in a non-exclusive license, and reaped another 7 years of sales ongoing.

But Buffet missed investing in numerous internet companies that have made others into $billionaires.

The model of business he invests in is dying. We are leaving the tangible capital age and entering the knowledge age, wherein you don't need large stored capital to launch a business. For example the 3D printer (which can print itself) will eventually obliterate factories, retail stores, and shipped goods. There are already 3D printers which can print multiple materials on the same object.

Also in the past knowledge was captured by industrial stored capital, because one needed physical production and distribution. Stored capital is a claim of future human labor or production. But now for example factories will be automated with robots, so the industrialists will depend on the knowledge workers.

The knowledge workers can say "fuck you" to $billions, we don't need it. All that stored capital is becoming useless and won't be able to find a home. It is what you know in your brain that becomes capital.

When the $223 trillion global debt bomb (with $1000 trillion in derivatives to hold it up, and another $1000 trillion in unfunded social liabilities promised to the boomers) implodes circa 2016ish as the marginal-utility-of-debt has become negative right about now and the BRICs are starting to collapse (with Europe and Japan to follow by next year and USA in 2016), the all those people who are useless in the Knowledge Age will be unemployable. And those $billionaires will lose their net worth relative to the capital in our brains which will grow orders-of-magnitude in value (what we can produce and buy with our efforts).

Oxford U predicts 47% of all existing jobs will be erased by automation within 19 years (20 years from last year when the research was published).

Which programming languages do you consider future proof, Anonymint? Obviously people will have their favourites and it depends on the job, I understand that. But I'd like to know your views.

I also listened to your recordings earlier on. Were you cut off at the end? It seemed like there was more to come. But the recording ended abruptly.

it is funny how people here think they have more background than warren buffet

Apologies I deleted those recordings from my thread because I was so mentally and physically exhausted yesterday and somewhat incoherent. Also I gave away too many details on my plans. There were two recordings and the second one continued where the first one got chopped off. There was a lot more to explain but I think it is not yet the right timing for me. I am also suffering from exhaustion and need to focus my efforts more.

I can't predict which computer language will be most important, but I am nearly certain it won't be C, C++, C#, nor Go. Because their typing systems are inadequate for the level of expression we need to do, and if you don't need strong typing then use Python instead.

It will either be (or probably both) a dynamically typed language (i.e. actually statically uni-typed (http://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/dynamic-languages-are-static-languages/)) such as Python or a statically typed language that is not verbose due to its very powerful Higher Kinded typing system such as Scala (hopefully a version 3 that has a first-class union type, which is the main lacking feature of Scala which Ceylon has!) something Ceylon doesn't have. I was working on the latter for my Copute which is intended to be a better Scala and I will come back to that if I can finish my work in the Bitcoin space.

Are you a talented programmer? You can PM me.

I got into a discussion about languages at the following thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279771.msg3003835#msg3003835

Some where in that thread, I explained why I think Go sucks.

Unfortunately the situation is very different now in some critical ways which could indeed lead to riots and martial law.

At that time the USA was still predominantly a rural and more self-sufficient society. My grandfather was walking around selling potatos during the Great Depression.

The Great Depression was caused by the network effects from the First Industrial Revolution which created mass production factories in the Second Industrial Revolution (http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Housing%20Recovery%20Illusion.html). This bankrupted the cottage industry and socialism in Europe. Which caused 76% of the world's gold to flee to the USA.

World War 1, FDR's New Deal, and WW2 were able to keep the people busy and people could survive in the semi-rural ways too. The USA was a net creditor and had much strength in industrial undercapacity and huge resources to apply to the Second Industrial Age.

Whereas, the situation we have now is that all nations are bankrupt and have irrelevance to the Knowledge Age. Thus government has no clue how to solve this debt bomb.

The only thing the socialism knows how to do at this point is tax and spend.

There is no place for capital to run to. The economy is shifting to the Knowledge Age where capital is less important than specific knowledge and small world-changing focused opportunities.

So you are going to have a very confused and pissed off society as this accelerates 2016ish.


Worse than that. Central banks have delayed for decades the correction that should have come in the 1970s so that the boomers would have learned to be programmers as the personal computer was born. Instead the debt propped up all sorts of old world economy business that is no longer relevant. So now we will have an abrupt and very painful global adjustment that may even take us into a Dark Age.

I detailed this at the following post and downwards in the thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.msg5637503#msg5637503

Got to agree with the old man, this is not for a regular average Joe. These kinds of things are only for the enthusiasts, hobbyists, and risk-takers!

It is happening:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/03/14/russian-capital-flows/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/03/14/germany-to-throw-in-prison-people-with-swiss-accounts/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/03/14/is-there-a-global-bank-run/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/03/13/preliminary-capital-flows-fleeing-russia-exceed-50-billion/
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/03/13/bank-runs-starting-in-ukraine/

It depends - because in few years average Joe will be more "skilled" in new technologies than it is now. So Perhaps - Bitcoin is not for people who do not know how to use a smartphone and computer.
If you know how to "use" it. You can manage to buy and storage your Bitcoins.

I am a fan of crypto but Buffet has a valid point of view and has been a proven winner in the past. To me he is saying that until the bitcoin "industry" or any other system proves there is a "saving" to the user and/or receiver of funds ie transactions costs are less than other remittance forms it is not worth investing in.  Part of that saving (or benefit) has to be in confidence that front and back end parts (exchanges) are working well. To him  -  is bitcoin a better investment than say buying into paypal?. At present the answer is not at all clear so the answer is no.

Note he is also not going to be a buyer of bitcoin itself as it is far too volatile.

I agree with this assessment. But I will still use bitcoin or its variants for some things/uses but expect to still use a credit, debit and cheque book for some matters.  

Bolded emphasis is mine:


Agreed except the bolded part. We are more powerful now, we just need the right technology. Stay tuned...


Correct. But as I pointed out in my first post upthread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=515414.msg5695190#msg5695190) (which apparently flew over the head of most readers), rather than lowering costs to use it as a fiat money transfer tool, we will simply create new features (e.g. anonymity) which fiat no longer has (fiat cash is going away). And our new currency will support the virtual commerce knowledge age, which fiat won't.

Buffet is in the dinosaur old world economy. We are preparing to do euthanasia on that dying piece of shit industrial+retail+tangible economy.

And I feel like dancing to that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyDUC1LUXSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH8m6J3gPH0

That sounds good :) Like a music for this thread readers :P

regards!

One could argue that you could transfer millions in fiat almost instantly and pay a couple cents in fees, whereas PayPal charges a percentage or a bank wire would take more time and cost more. But you are right about the confidence in exchanges, and PayPal collects more in fees so it would be a better investment. Unless you are in Bitcoin for speculation rather than collecting fees (by mining).

It is a derivative of Marvin Gaye's Got To Give It Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRcVQDELAd4).

Cheers  :)

(I was born in New Orleans, the birthplace of Jazz)

he loves the current government system of economic fascism (which he can easily lobby and control).!

Bitcoin community warns "Stay away from Warren Buffet!" 

+1


Hahaha. Right on bro!

I rather hope we feel like this about the beauty of humanity.

Miguel - Adorn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dM5QYdTo08).

Does the Warren Buffet have Prime Rib on Friday night?  ::)

Apologies but I've got a music itch today. I think Buffet lives a sheltered life. Doesn't he realize the world is a changin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypwDdgWw7s).

I can't wait to finish programming so I can have some fun, haha!

Warren Buffet: "Stay away from Bitcoin"

.... So he can buy it all himself  :D

He doesn't have to.
HE IS MINING!!!!!    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Let's see if Warren will put his money where his mouth is.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516374.0

Yeeees for sure :P He is mining and mining ... :P his nose with his finger.

we do not need to dismiss him, this guy is a genius regarding business investment. but afaik he is using a somewhat fundamental analysis for his investment decision for evaluating the intrinsic value of a company etc.

obviously this does not work with bitcoin,because it is somewhat complicated to estimate the intrinsic value of this technology. I would not care so much for his opinion, he probably took at most 30 minutes trying to understand what this strange digital stuff is and dismissed it due to his mechanics of evaluating investments. 

Yes, so well said. He has the best publicists that money can buy, and all the dumb people just eat up the propaganda.

Buffet is famous for saying that he doesn't invest in what he doesn't understand.

He simply doesn't understand this therefore he wouldn't invest.  His comments were off the cuff.

He has been investing and making billions since many of us were in diapers.

If he wanted to invest in bitcoin he would.  He would not launch a smear campaign against it watch it fall a couple of dollars and swoop in.

When he invests, he does so in billions.  He could purchase a substantial amount of coin, he could create mining conglomerates in Antarctica ...he could pretty much do whatever he likes.

He loves money.  He is good at making it.  He is a capitalist.  He is smarter in that vein than 99.999 people on this planet.  I don't personally care much about his personal reputation as its none of my business but when people buy what he buys or sells what he sells they make money.

I was going to say this. Obv he doesnt have a f*cking clue about what bitcoin is, so he just says: stay away. The always-sensationalist media does the rest.

Buffet was relevant when we required factories, retail distribution, and a tangible world.

But the world has changed. We are moving towards a virtual economy and Buffet's capitalism is just a middle man that needs to be routed around in order to the make the economy more efficient.

This is his swan song, supporting Obama and Gneithner in order to prop up the global debt for another decade past 2007, in order to double the global debt from $100 trillion to the now $223 trillion (plus China's shadow economy debt, plus $1000 trillion in "weapons of mass destruction", plus $1000 trillion of unfunded actuarial liabilities/promises to the public in the form of social welfare and retirement).

He helped make everything worse and he is going to pay dearly for it.

Stop looking up this man. That form of capitalism is dying. The new form of capitalism is high tech. It is mostly what it is your brain. The $ is becoming a smaller and smaller portion of what is needed to develop a high tech project.

This is his swan song, predicting there won't be another major financial crash soon, when in fact the NYSE will double by 2015, then we will have global collapse 2016ish.

This is his swan song, not understanding the new money of the world and how that new money will propel the high tech knowledge age.

The industrial age is dying. China has massive overcapacity.

The future is about making unique things that people really need (such as this new technology that can predict if you will get Alzheimers by studying you eye twitching), not all this Wallstuff crap imported from Chinky land.

Stop admiring $billionaires. They are by definition dumber than when they were poorer. Do you not understand mathematically why that must be so?

It is a mathematical fact that smaller capital can grow faster because it able to chase smaller investments. Early Bitcoin investors made 1000X return on investment. That low hanging fruit is gone now. You will be lucky to make 10 to 100X from here. There will be competition for Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is flawed and will be easily regulated by the government.

Some altcoin has to fulfill that unregulated market demand, because the knowledge age will demand to be unregulated. That will be a smaller market for a decade, but then in the end it will be the larger market and surpass Bitcoin in the long run.

Absolutely correct.

We are entering the age of knowledge, and all things built on lies and deception (governments, corporations) will melt away like snow in the morning sun.

Agree 100%

While i obviously don't agree with warren buffet's comments calling him an idiot for them is ignorant and just makes you look like an idiot. He's made BILLIONS from investing - he knows what he's talking about. The reason he made such comments about BTC, I believe, Is because he doesn't fully understand the technology.

Idolatry much.

I stand by my comments upthread.

He is dumber now. He was super smart when his capital was small and the industrial+tangible+socialism age was still young. Now it is peaking and dying with him too.

I don't hate him, but I sure don't idolize him. I don't want to follow him into his coming massive failure.

Perhaps his underlings and managers of his businesses are savvy enough to adjust to the knowledge age. We will see.

As I wrote upthread, he is correct that Bitcoin is not yet treated as a unit-of-account.

And I do think he might end up being correct about Bitcoin and wrong about an altcoin. Because I think the government is going to tax BTC as a commodity, which will insure it can't be a unit-of-account because legal tender is not taxed on VAT and capital gains. And then merge Bitcoin into some digital fiat plan (the mining is already centralized in few pools so easily to force those owners to sell to Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc). I believe this is why those banks have been patenting designs for the coming plan.

So that is why I don't think you will get 1000X gains that you BTC holders are extrapolating.

As I said in my first post upthread, he is somewhat correct, but only because Bitcoin is not designed to resist government regulation.

Leave him alone :) he is 84 years old so I wish him 200 years of life :)
But perhaps he will dismissed himself in next decade or maximum two...

But I do not wish him that - this is just how it works. Isn't? :(

I think you are out of your mind if you believe any such government-bankster hijacking of Bitcoin will be even remotely successful or tolerated by the cryptocurrency community.

World governments will have no more success taxing Bitcoin than the US government has had stopping the spread of piracy or winning the insane war on drugs.

And proper decentralized exchanges are coming sooner than you think.

I love warren Buffet  :D , Can we say bitcoin is not risky. We folks are mostly risk takers investing in bitcoin, any conservative investor will say the same as Warren Buffet.

Decentralized exchange won't help you. Because your IP address is still visible to the government, and Tor+VPN can't help you.

And the block chain is fully traceable and the available mixers won't really help you.

And CoinJoin is DOS-attackable in decentralized mode.

Sorry I speak the facts.

Eventually it will hit you like a brick. Then you will realize what the real future of Bitcoin is and that is going to be depressing realization for you.

I am not happy about, which is why I have been investigating potential solutions.

I just love people who self proclaim themeslves winners of internet debates....

Your agenda to bash Bitcoin every chance you get is clear.

now please piss off... stop linking to your own threads and go away.

Ignorance won't help you. Investors ignore facts at their own peril. Continue on.

You can find the technical discussion between gmaxell and myself in the CoinJoin thread, which is not my thread. He is the moderator as well as core Bitcoin developer. Malevolent was also in that discussion. He is the moderator here.

Go cry in your milk now waterboy.

Damn right I will continue on... Don't be mad because I'm exposing your
pathetic MO and agenda.   This thread is about Warren Buffet and you try to turn it into
"why bitcoin will fail".

At this point, you're becoming extremely predictable. 
I wouldn't be shocked if you're a paid shill working for JP Morgan.

You remind me of a Rottweiler. Very vicious in protecting his master, but not very smart.

My MO is very simple. I believe in decentralized crypto-currency. I am grateful Bitcoin exists and will promote it as such.

I am realistic about the flaws in Bitcoin. And I expect an altcoin to fix those issues. And then I expect the two things to coexist and we will profit from it.

You can go chew on your bone now.

The clueless fiat-troll / NSA agent has spoken!

Quick, everyone divest the only real money you have ever owned (excluding gold), and buy back into nation-state ponzi-scheme currency!

Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

Hey noob, I'm doing okay. I went in pre-100. I've already gained 1400% on my original BTC investment, and completely divested myself from the very dubious, artificially-inflated dollar. You should too.

That's what happens when you buy and hold. Cryptocurrency's value increases logarithmically year over year, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do to stop it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU). Pandora's box has been opened.

Every obstacle the terrified governments of the world throw at crypto is a mere speedbump in the big-picture, long view of the evolution of this new technology.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120401010926/glee/images/7/70/Deal_with_it.gif

And trees grow past the moon to ur-anus too.

Rather adoption curves are logistic.

So the question is at what point is Bitcoin fully adopted?

Most people in the world don't give a rats ass about our idealistic goals with decentralized crypto-currency.

They would prefer to use Paypal or a credit card.

So Bitcoin will only continue going up if:

1. More investors drink the Koolaid.

2. There is some compelling mainstream use of Bitcoin that we haven't seen yet.


So it is quite easy to displace Bitcoin, simply invent an altcoin that has some very important use which Bitcoin can't do, and which many people need desperately.

If he really lives to 200, then is he an alien/human hybrid?

I don't like this guy :P he is a rich man indeed but it does mean nothing for me :)

XD

While I think he is wrong on this one, I have done quite well over the years listening to Buffett. And his Internet comment you make fun of probably saved me from moving to a smaller house.

Documents released by, and interviews with, Ed Snowden strongly imply that Tor and/or VPNs can, in fact, help quite a bit.

Anonymint please stop polluting other peoples threads.
And yes Tor CAN help you if you know how to use it ;)

DOGE bone?
Is THAT your favorite altcoin?  :D

Buffett is risk averse. If he can't fully understand something he isn't going to recommend it. And as much as I love the bitcoin concept it is a large gamble. It is a gamble I am taking (although I got in early and sold half when it was just about where it is now, so I won't feel too dumb if the bottom falls out.) but would I suggest it to someone that has kids to feed? Buffett believes in the smart safe play. And when he says sell, that is when I really pay attention. He saved my ass in the dot.com bubble.

Some parts of what he said make sense. If we really want to promote decentralized currencies and not just for profit, we'll be all ok for another altcoin to go mainstream instead of MUST BE BITCOIN hurr durr

The only reason we are promoting just bitcoins is it already had enough traction and we don't want to flood the average joe's mind with thousands of different copycats cryptos.

So if another cryptocurrency's rise is the death of bitcoin, it is still actually still a good news in the big picture.

Truth is as strong as Titanium (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRfuAukYTKg).  :P :-*

http://b.vimeocdn.com/ps/173/126/1731265_300.jpg


+1. Good to see not everyone is dumb.

Actually we don't need that altcoin to kill Bitcoin. I believe the Fourth Branch of government (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=455141.msg5704180#msg5704180)created Bitcoin, and they will make it mainstream by regulating it then allowing it to be legal tender so no more taxes on using it. That is good even for an altcoin which the government hates, because expands our ecosystem.

So what I see is a better altcoin that is #2, but better for all of us idealists who understand where we are headed 10 - 20 years hence. The masses will follow us into this altcoin later, after they get totally fucked over by the government as socialism implodes. For now the masses still trust the government, otherwise the $223 trillion global fractional reserves (i.e. debt) and $1000 trillion of derivatives would have imploded already.


I am not polluting. I responding on Buffet's point as to why Bitcoin can not become a unit-of-account (unless it becomes the new digital fiat legal tender).

Tor and VPNs can not be proven to anonymous when you use them. You might get lucky, you might not.

And besides, most are not using them, thus diluting the percentage of those who use them (5%?) by the percentage that you get lucky (80%?), means some very small percent (0.05 x 0.8 = 4%?) of Bitcoin users are anonymous w.r.t. to IP address.

And that is only IP address. You still have to mix your coins so they can't be traced on the public ledger block chain.

Problem is all mixers have the same problem as VPNs, in that you can't prove the people running them aren't revealing your identity (NSA gag order can be applied to them) or that their servers aren't backdoored.

And mixers are only a small percent of users, so thus the anonymity set is very limited.

So all of this means that the government can find 95+% of the users to attack them with taxation and criminal liability for all activity on the coin history. Because how can you prove you didn't mine the coin and sell it to yourself multiple times unless you have the identities of who you bought from and sold to?

Come on morons, you haven't thought this out.


Hahaha, of course not. I already wrote upthread that all existing and known planned altcoins are crapcoins. Even Ethereum is nonsense because putting a Turing complete language in the block chain can cause a virus and destroy the entire block chain.

I know what tulip mania is, i don't know how people are comparing it to breaking technology though...it's like comparing Apple and oranges or even apples!  ::)

I remember reading somewhere that age causes increased stubbornness, an increased amount of narcissism and an increased resistance to change - ie the internet and disruptive, emergent technology.

Buffet is too conservative to listen to him today, we need new authority

Can someone please help to change the title of this thread like this?

Bitcoiners: "Stay away from Warren Buffet"   ;D ;D

Warren Buffet MADE an extra 13 billion last year, enough that he could buy every bitcoin, litecoin, alt coin..... and still have billions left over.  It is very scary he spoke against bitcoins.  I hope and think he is wrong, but still..... it is something to think about.   

I most definitely don't idolize him but I give credit where credit is due. He's made more money in a few years than all of us in our lifetimes combined.

warren buffet thinks 'money makers' need good college/university degree's, a good job and promoted to a level to be able to trade on an exchange...

well this is what i think.

https://i.imgur.com/NOGzOAx.jpg