Bitcoin Forum

I posted at least four different threads in the last week about what FATF would do.

Now you see it. Binance is forcing KYC on the globe and kicking americans off. Do you get it yet? Do you understand how this is going down? Do you realize how much financial opportunity is going to be taken from you as you are barred from the global cryptocurrency economy? While the rich are allowed to do series A accreddited investing, institutional swap trading, and foreign trading of the most speculative altcoins. Do you realize this is a tax grab and a corral, this is not about fraud, it is about classism. Don't be deluded.

I agree with what you are hinting here. It seems that the government is making things hard for ordinary guys like you and me to play with the cryptocurrency market. While I do understand why many exchanges are imposing KYC, there should be rational parameters with this...meaning that KYC should not be extended to users who are just transacting small amount of funds (is Binance changing this policy?). Sometimes it is ludicrous that many small exchanges imposing stricter KYC policies when compared to Binance. This is what we get when there is no clear-cut laws regarding cryptocurrency use, possession and trading. Anyway, as the market is expanding, am sure that the time will come when a comprehensive law is passed recognizing and regulating this industry.

Yes US citizens can't trade anymore, I guess. Every platform follow this rules. Even Bittrex following now.

This is inevitable for a government that doesn't listen to the woes of the minority and just proceeds on to bully the rights of other people including other countries as well. The current administration of the US government is proactive in denying facts and science and building a wall than to fix domestic and international relations that they have disrupted. Even if there are lobbyists with great points in regards to crypto trading platforms, I doubt that the legislators would listen one bit. Binance's move to just blacklist the Americans for the mean time is the last thing they can do for now in order to avoid complications with the US government and sadly, it further divides the cryptocommunity and market even more.

Do you get it yet?
FATF hasnt even made anything into law. they have a week of discussions 16th-21st of the month to talk about issues. if binance has changed its policies from $10k to $1k then thats off binances own back.

people can still trade above $1k value. but ofcourse. when using a exchange thats fiat regulated. expect the regulations

if you dont like regulations dont use a regulated exchange..

i actually didnt just read bloombergs INTERPRETATION. but looked to the sources
https://www.mof.go.jp/english/international_policy/convention/g20/communique.htm
https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20CVC%20Guidance%20FINAL.pdf

having read it all. its not exactly an attack on crypto's... its a note of guideance for fiat regulated exchanges to report more the handling of CVC (mysql balances of fiat & crypto assets(stablecoins))

this is about the mediums of exchanges that represent fiat but are not true fiat. emphasis being stable coins for instance.
G20 governments only have jurisdiction  over fiat as its their 'product' so yea expect them to want to monitor their product and the convertibles that are made to represent them.

how would this most impact people.
well for one example arbitraging.
imagine just 1 allotment of $1k being circled several times via arbitraging between a few exchanges

one exchange will see the crypto to stablecoin swaps. which then would put the account holder as doing multiple $1k+ trades resulting in CVC. thus on one exchange the reports would show as many thousands in fiat being withdrawn
though the truth bing the user only has $1k being played with back and forth

arbitraging will come under great scrutiny due to AML risks. as it will look like your trying to 'clean' dirty fiat by cycling it around exchanges

But the FATF is only enforcing KYC for transactions that are above $1k, right? This might be not the best barrier, but even people who have thousands of dollars can manage to perform multiple transactions and thus avoid KYC. As for super-rich people - well, if they got their money fairly, they got nothing to hide. If they didn't - that's what KYC is for. Why can't the US citizens trade anymore, by the way? I can see the news about Bittrex not allowing US-based users to trade certain cryptos, but I don't see any explanations of that. Moreover, the recent fuss about the whole FATF thing is not very justified, because the document is not even published yet!

Actually, I really like the way things are arranged in the United States of America regarding legislative law.  Recently I read the information that some States of America are adopting their personal laws regarding the cryptocurrency market and digital assets, where the cryptocurrency will be recognized by numbers as securities and real digital assets of citizens.  Of course, against the background of this, a scandal flares up over the fact that some users of cryptocurrency are trying to avoid paying taxes using cryptocurrency, and therefore the United States, London, the Netherlands, Canada and Australia decided to jointly combat this phenomenon, creating a certain international structure.

And what is so bad about KYC? This is not a tool against the users but it's actually for their protection. In.Europe this is quite a normal thing for a long time now and everyone who wants to run legitimate business should performe KYC. I guess this is something that Americans should get used to.

It's has been so for a while even in initial coin offering some project run know your customer kyc process just to detect some countries like USA because they are barred from participating. I Don know if cryptocurrency is completely ban in USA but I know this is affecting those involved in cryptocurrency over there

There's no problem with KYC as long as the information given will be safe and secured. But, the issue is that are we dealing with a 100% secured platform. Remember that if coins have been stolen by hackers, what more with the personal information out there digitally stored. This is one of the concerns why some think thrice with KYC.

I think government should be by the people and for the people. If a policy does not go well with the people, it should be thrown out as it automatically becomes anti people. If the people want blockchain, then so be it as long as it does not cause harm to other people

I hear what you're saying but to be fair, all of the G20 publicly pledged to enforce the FATF recommendations. There will likely be significant pressure on exchanges serving Europeans as well. We're already seeing significant pressure there from the last AML directive from the EU.

The FATF guidelines may be the metaphorical straw that broke the camel's back but Binance's move is deeper than that. Like Bittrex, they need to segregate their US clientele because of the multitude of unregistered securities markets on Binance.com. They've been operating as an unregistered securities exchange for years now and this is a show of good faith to become compliant. There's no doubt many less markets will be offered on the .US domain.

If anyone is interested, there is a bill in Congress that would help on that front (https://www.coindesk.com/lawmakers-reintroduce-bill-to-exempt-tokens-from-us-securities-laws). It was reintroduced two months ago. It would exempt lots of coins from securities laws, allow like-kind exchanges of digital assets, and make up to $600 in capital gains realized through buying goods/services tax exempt per year.

Indian legislators forwarding a bill to ban Bitcoin will give ideas to American legislators.

your mistake is that you think the "cryptocurrency economy" is only exchanges and trading shitcoins. of course it is understandable since we have 2500+ altcoins and their only usages are to be traded but that is not what "crypto-currency" was made for. bitcoin, which started all this, is a decentralized payment system that was meant to work without needing approval of government or anybody else for that matter. and whatever they do, they also do it to centralized services such as an exchange platform. but it doesn't have anything to do with "cryptocurrency economy"!

Indeed, FATF enforces KYC only for people who transact more than $ 1000, but I don't think anyone super-rich is preoccupied with making large amounts of transactions in multiple accounts.
And for Bittrex which does not allow US citizens to trade, I think this is what I am used to seeing because the US itself has very strict tax rules.


But not with America, in my opinion this one country is quite arrogant since Trump served as president. Since then many losses and protests have been carried out by its citizens because the American decision is always unilateral and harms others.

It turns out that the state has clashed with the decentralized. The state acts as if it owns its own "creators." that's why using a DEX is a good choice, even though the volume is not really that big of a deal, the trend is that DEXs are the new trump card for cryptos.

They are slowly tightening the rope around people's heads and most people have not even noticed it. The rich and powerful have seen the bigger picture and they found ways to over regulate the Bitcoin scene to try and eliminate the competition.  :P

They also have a bunch of politicians and regulators in their pockets, so they will use that leverage to their advantage. Why do you think the SEC has stalled the process to allow institutional capital to flow into Bitcoin?

All of this is concerning but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Binance will open an exchange specifically for U.S. consumers, and currently there are options for Americans. With Coinbase operating in the U.S. and becoming mainstream, I am not concerned about prohibition per se, but rather about the potential hampering or restriction of these markets. I want to see many exchanges compete so that the very best can survive and thrive, thus improving the ecosystem. I don't want to just see Coinbase and a couple of others, because then they will be able to dictate prices and overcharge consumers. Also, I suspect a main concern by governments is ensuring they get their cut from this. I think a compromise will eventually be found.

On another positive note, the bitcoin price has shot up. The global market is not at all concerned about this, it seems.

I do feel for US traders for they will be limited only to a few trades after Binance launches its Binance US exchange. I'm not sure but I think there's nothing can be done about this since the banks and financial institutions has influence on a lot of these legislators.


US traders can still trade on multiple exchanges like Bittrex.

Apparently, this affects not just exchanges but all services and custodians who are party to cryptocurrency transactions. Does that mean Bitpay and other payment processors will be enforcing this? How about online and hosted wallets?

But the US issued bans related to Cryptocurrency and exchange. Binance also made the final decision to ban all American citizens from trading on this platform, and it is valid for 90 days. Is this a statement by Binance against American decisions? I believe that the US will soon have to remove these bans if it wants not to be isolated by celebrities in this country.

For people who still want to use binance as his daily trade, I am sure he doesn't have a problem with KYC, and he will fill the KYC. But for people who don't want to use KYC, they will leave binance and find the other exchanges. Many other exchanges don't use KYC for their members, and I think they will get more members if somehow many traders don't agree with KYC in binance. I don't mind to fills KYC in binance if that will protect me from a bad situation.

Can the OP elaborate a bit more, why he is thinking that the common folks will be left behind while others will be able to participate?

Sure, Binanace is canceling US out but that does not mean that other exchanges will follow immediately. 

I personally see KYC itself as a problem since it's not as effective as it should be and it is definitely not bringing something too valuable to the table.

If someone can come up with a much better idea to guarantee that most criminals won't be relaxed inside exchanges, he/she will probably make a lot of money with it, since there is a lot of need for a better system around this subject.

KYC is an attempt to improve this system. It's just a tool, but there's no need for it for me. For if you are going to commit a financial crime, you will commit with any state money

Americans has a lot of great contribution to the market and for them not being able to trade on what considered as a top exchange in the industry is really cruel, there should a fix on this, I read that there will be Binance exchange exclusive to Americans but I don't if it's going to be profitable because of the limited number of tokens being traded there.

The contribution of the Americans is small compared to the Chinese. And these, the Chinese, who should charge their government financial and personal freedom