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This is my second thread(the first one is deleted) about how to calculate profitability on a cloud mining site.

As they strictly avoiding to answer for any questions about profitability,and they are providing super vague answers.
I purchased a few contracts there to see how things are going before I send more btc in.

Now I'd like to conclude it somehow,that this  cloud mining company is a decent one,just they have a very bad and rude customer support.
Or this cloud mining company is a Ponzi scheme
All of this without to name them first,just to keep the biasses as neutral as possible

As a beginning here is the original thread salvaged and uploaded in PDF:

https://www.scribd.com/document/413987132/Cloud-Mining-Questions-Page-1
https://www.scribd.com/document/413987329/Cloud-Mining-Questions-Page-2

and here is the thread about my deleted original thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5156596.0

Looking forward to all the great discussions:)
@bones261 @Primenumber7

This is not a service you are providing, so I suggest you move it to service discussion or the reputation section, else this thread too will be deleted.  There is a reason for which moderators delete threads, most of the time it is because they do not follow the guidelines.

Recently,like yesterday midnight.
I had the idea to put all of the mined BTC into a 2x long position.
To hedge the decreasing daily payouts from the cloud mining company.
As I noticed if the price going up then my daly payout is decreasing.
This seems to me a logical solution.
What do you think?

So I don't recall how far you got into the profitability calculator stuff but without knowing what your daily maintenance fees where or any other daily fees you were incurring it's hard to help. If you have your contract pointed to a PPS pool (if given the option) then your earnings dropping by 10% doesn't make sense. Here is a reply I gave somewhere else to round out my impressions of cloud mining.



Not to mix trading and cloud mining. The price in USD shouldn't directly affect your daily payout in BTC, until price pushes up the network hashrate which pushes the Diff up.

This was enlightening
I spent time at the whattomine and the bitcoinwisdom calculator with not much success.
The maintenance fee is in my case:
: 0.001$ / 10 GH/s / 24h
I did not get any answer regarding mining pools..
I have 262281 GH/s hashrate for one year

If you go here (https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=262281&HashingUnit=GH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=&CostPerkWh=&MiningPoolFee=) and put in nothing but your hashrate it gives you an estimate of what you would roughly expect in reward for btc per day/week. Further than that is subject to difficulty rise. Apart from that it looks like you are paying .1$/TH per day, so about 26.20$ daily maintenance fee.

It shows you should be earning .0089 BTC daily not including any pool fees, transaction fees or maintenance fees.


How do you pay the maintenance fee? Is it deducted automatically from your earnings? If so they may be using an unfavorable exchange rate.
With no answer about mining pools it seems they are directing the hashrate which isn't really great. You are paying for it and should be able to point it where you want

It depends on how 'lucky' a pool is to find blocks. If a pool finds less blocks today, your daily payout will obviously decrease because there is less that it can pay you.

I'm not sure how they calculate the maintenance fees and how fair it all is, but the rate at which blocks are found is crucial and can't be measured by calculators perfectly. In that regard, always keep in mind that payouts can be higher or lower with so many variables playing a role of importance.

@1referee
I have to say I was not aware of the crucial importance of a mining pool in the whole process till now

@steamtyme
The maintenance fee is deducted from the daily payout in BTC.
But in the contract they are counting the maintenance fee in USD.
That one for me seems right,I did not went into it,but everyday it is a smaller amount.
I think because the BTC price is getting higher.
I did checked on your link (I appreciate it,big thx:)which you kindly provided the calculator and meanwhile the calculator is forecasting 3,2
On the cloud mining site my forecast is 2,6 at the moment(it was originally 3,2)

I have a bit of an update in the meantime.
I got a message about the mining pools involved.
Which says the management decided not to provide any information about that.
I was invited the company here for discussing further if they wish to do it.
I’m super curious:)

Well I would say at this point it would be beneficial for you to name the cloud mining provider you've bought from.
This way people can look deeper at their contract and terms. It might help uncover the reason for your drop in rewards or at least more about their payout structure. To me there are a few red flags the biggest being they don't want to reveal anything about the pool information. Without this there is no way to verify that you are actually getting the hashrate you paid for; especially when there are discrepancies.

I don't think that your rewards are based on pool luck, mostly because over a given time you should see just as many high reward days as low reward days and they should have an average near your estimated earnings. A lot of pools out there offer a PPS (Pay Per Share) structure that provides a steady consistent reward based on shares submitted and a 12.5 BTC block reward. They often keep the transaction fees, which is okay if it's known. Difficulty adjustment could be a factor but the largest jump up we've seen in the last 6 weeks I think was 5% and that was I believe 3 weeks ago.

I wanna know it as well because we cant really make such precise or good suggestions if we dont know which cloud mining site we are talking to because high chances that OP is talking with some scam cloud mining rather than on a currently old running cloud mining companies.

I'm certainly leaning to reveal their name too of course:)
I mean not much else left if I'd like to at least see what's going on.

Allright,I did just received an email from the company to do a review about them on trust pilot.
I did it of course.
You can see the review here:
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/iqmining.com
I guess everybody know the name of the company now.

it is IQMINING.COM

You can find them here and all of the details about them:

https://iqmining.com

Okay. Well that's easy enough to see why your payouts changed and fluctuate so much. You are not mining BTC, you are being paid in BTC. So the profitability calculators I said to look at aren't really relevant for this.

Without buying into a contract it's hard to tell, but reading their FAQ's they mine altcoins using profit switching which is really just chasing the most profitable coin after the fact and hoping it stays that way. So your payouts will probably fluctuate wildly. Not to mention I don't know if you can track which coin they mined to see if you are being paid a full reward. To this point it looks like you've been paid, so as long as that carries on you are getting the service you paid for.

I see.Thanks for taking a look into it.
Unfortunately they don't telling me which coin they mining.Nor any information about any mining pools involved.
What I know that I have an SHA 256 PRO contract.
The mining payouts they are not fluctuating,but nicely decreasing.

Hi, I have a SHA-256 Pro contract, today both the fees and earnings have changed significantly, they have doubled !!! Has it happened to you too?

@Xilopopuma

Yes indeed.
But somehow that doubled daily payout,which is showing on the balance transaction section.
Did not went credited into the actual account balance.Otherwise I did notice it.
As everyday I send every btc out.
I did double checked this with a friend of mine who have the similar contract.
It is the same for him too.
On the balance sheet the payment doubled but it does not get credited into a real account balance.
Could you please check if thi i the ame ituation with you?

I find this discrepancy even more concerning.
I mean at least till now,the daily payouts minus the maintenance fee was precisely showing up on my balance.
Not anymore..
Theoretically I can have quadrupled daily payouts showing up on the transactions balance,it does not matter if it does not show up
on the balance where i can withdraw it from

Update:

I just checked and it seems this increase of the double amount of daily payout was fixed.
Right now it is showing the proper amount,instead of the doubled one.
It seem it was a bug.
I did not mind tough if this bug actually turning up on my withdrawable balance:D

I see many fake positive reviews there. I can't believe in reviews like "Very good invest..." or "The best cloud mining company. Recive profit every 5 days for my contract. I recomendation this site." Feedbacks like these is a warning to me.
Also, there are a few people who complain that they withdraw very little of the money invested.

So basically you are just trusting that they are telling the truth when they say what they are doing?
Crypto 101: Don't trust, verify.
A brief look at them gives me no reason to believe they are mining anything.


You gave them about $6000 then, when did you do that?
How much of that have you got back so far?

A lot of things are confusing about your complain but in order to receive proper advise if that is what you need, you may need to provide some vital informations about the cloud mining company.
1, The name or website address of the cloud mining.
2, Your btc tx id in order for the community to be sure you actually sent sends you stated to the btc address.
We can properly understand your claim if you provide the above information.

Do they have actual proof that they are in fact mining?
I always thought that most cloud mining providers are basically just running ponzi schemes and looking at IQ mining's website, I don't actually see substantial proof that they're mining.

Also, if they are mining, wouldn't it be more profitable to just buy cryptocurrency directly instead of relying on these daily mining payouts?
What's the benefit of cloud mining VS just buying cryptocurrency?

@badykvik

The website address of the company is the following:
https://iqmining.com/
Probably you misunderstanding me.so let me try to explain myself.
My complaint(I believe the right world should be to it more like a problem as I see it)at the moment.
That I don't know why the amount of btc which I receive everyday is keep decreasing
What I really like to know is how can I confirm that I'm receiving the right amount of BTC.
Also I'm curious why the amount I'm receiving is substantially different from the forecast at the moment of the purchasing.
I think in order to explain that.I need to know how are they calculating the daily payouts
About the BTC transaction.I'm not comfortable to reveal that.
It is  entirely possible my thread is confusing and I did not explain my reasons properly,in that case let me know please which part of it is not clear.
Will try my best,to correct it or make it much more understandable.

@eternal gloom

I don't have any proof.I did received a good idea from here how is it possible to get a proof.
If I'm asking information about the mining pools involved and the address of the freshly mined blocks.
Which I believe they are sharing with me in a way.
Unfortunately the company decided not to provide this info to me.
The benefit of cloud mining based on their calculator when I did purchased the contracts was that roughly 1/3 of the price of the BTC at that time.
I will going to receive 1 BTC.
There is a growing negative difference between this calculation and the original forecast,which I don't know if it's caused for example the changing of mining difficulty or hashrate or something else.Especially that based on the description on their site.They are mining altcoins and they converting it to btc.
About profitability cloud mining vs holding crypto.
Yes buying crypto of course could be really profitable with the right circumstances.What was interesting me in cloud mining that I receive 3X more btc in a year,and from the other hand the capital which I put into it in USD value,should come back to me quite fast.(in 2,5 months)
I was speculating here that the price of the BTC is going to increase(Which I was right till now)
Plus the fact that after I sent the funds in I don't need to do anything.
Also in my plan I was thinking on it that I put the mined coins into a low level margin long.Which I'm doing it now to balance out somewhat the decreasing payouts.

It's very difficult to get Bitcoin at the moment, but cloudmining is not a good way after several cases of scam and engaging in ponzi schemes.
Proof of transfer (WD) is only valid for 2 months and after that scam. this is terrible.

I’m curious about this proof of transfer thingy?What do you mean?

I believe they are just generalizing many of the past cloud mining and other scams that "prove" they are legitimate by paying out some rewards for a while to attract new investors before shutting down and running away. This could still be the case but at least for now they are still paying out a partial reward so your losses may not be complete if they do exit. This review here lays out all the concerns for each point and echoes a lot of the suspicion people have brought up. https://cloudminingz.com/iqmining-com-review.html

Just hope for the best and plan for the worst. Hold onto and get as much information as possible about them, and definitely don't refer any friends to their site. Side note I went to read up on them again and they are having a big sale with a 25% bonus to their already lowish fees; kinds lends to the bring in as many customers as they can theory.

That link is a great find Steamtyme.Also not a bad site generally.
It's the first comprehensive review I read about the company.
Yeah they still keep paying.Less and lees tough with every passing day.
I got this 25% summer sale hashrate popup everyday when I'm logging in:)
They also have an other ongoing campaign,where the "mined" btc is automatically gets back into hashrate again.
Called the income booster,there is a promised increase of 250% of a year
Will do exactly as you sad,speaking about the rest.
I really appreciate your advices.

I was also scouring the net and I just recently find this review on trustpilot(I also did a review)
So this guy(johnarasag) he have the egzakt same experiences I had.
Check this:

Scam for sure
Hello guys,

The company appears to be ok ad they will give you some payouts.
I am also using other cloud mining providers like bitdeer and genesis.
I have compare their payouts with the other guys and expected outcome from btc.com and they are around 17% less with no reasonable explanation. I have already opened a ticket but nobody has replied yet.
I fully recommend to use one of the many other cloud mining providers.
it does not really make sense to give you reinvest policy if they are taking you 17% of your daily income. if someone wants, I can send him/her data.
My hasrate is 63 TH/s.

Today I received slightly more btc than yesterday.
Also my forecast went a bit up
My only explanation for this is that only the price course of btc involving the amount of payment.
Like there is an inverse correlation between the two.
Whatever they say about mining difficulty and hash rate,I just can't confirm it cause the lack of information.
Even if that should make sense,at the case when they are indeed mining.

Edit at 2.07.2019:

So today the btc price plunged even more.And also my forecast went down.
I think it's possible that in one or two month I'll receive zero payout if this going on like this.-
The original forecast when I bought the contract was 3,2 BTC
Today it is 1,9.
That is around 30%

Alright,today my forecast magically bounced back to 3,2 btc a year.
Let me know please if you have the same SHA 256 PRO contract and if it's happened with yours too.
I still don't know what the hell is going on.
The only thing I was able to deduct that somehow the bitcoin price and my daily payout.
Is in inverse relation,but not entirely

@hiukiny

Yes it’s the same to me to.
This is the first day when I did not get any daily payout.
I’m curious what’s gonna happen.
It could be really interesting to know if this is something,that has happened
earlier?

Let me answer to your other reply too.
Of course the payouts are vary.I never had any problem with that.
My problem is with the fact that there is no way to know that you get the right amount or not.
Also no way to know that they are actually mining or not.

This 24 hour delay is normal if you want to withdraw over their daily withdrawal limit.
I withdraw every day to avoid that limit,it is safer too.

Update:

Allright,I was just spoken with the support.I got kinda inconsistent answers.
They say they have technical difficulties which will be sorted out in two days.
When I was asked them about more details about their difficulties they told me that sometimes
a daily payout could take more than 24 hours to credit.
Because....of the global market situation world's market......

Second update:

Daily payout just arrived.Did you received it too?
@ Hiukiny

Today the daily payment has also arrived to me with a few hours of delay, no problem with the withdrawal I made today

You want to calculate your profitability? try this https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=14&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1500&CostPerkWh=0.12&MiningPoolFee=1

but you should know on how much is the electricity cost been using.This is what makes hard on trying to seek out for further proofs or justification of your invested money.
Remember that its still excluded with companies deduction like fees,maintenance cost etc.

You hunch is correct it is indeed a Ponzi scheme and you've invested in a Ponzi scheme you should have done a research about cloud mining before investing in a cloud mining, the majority here voted that cloud mining are purely Ponzi scheme.

Yes,I totally agree with you:)

something else that is always forgotten by most people who are looking into cloud mining services is that even if they were not a Ponzi scheme today, they could turn into one very soon in the near future.
the problem with this business model is that it is not really profitable for anybody even the owners. so to make profit they have to do other things such as turning into a scam.
all they need to fail is a little price drop, some taxation, an electricity cost increase, a simple equipment failure and then they start seeing big losses and have to become a scam.

That’s a good point.
I always wondered tough,why mining(or cloud mining)
Is not that lucrative anymore.
I mean it should be logical that mining have good incentives.
Cause it’s the base of any POW cryptocurrency.
Or am I missing something here?

Here is a new development.
I'm hearing IQ Minig begun to freeze the bigger accounts.Or the least making the withdrawal extremely hard.
They are asking plenty of additional KYC details from the owners of the account.
For example where the funds came from.
Even if those accounts are already KYCd at the opening.

OP is it iqmining.com your service? It looks like you shilling for them.

Also, you never answer to this question:

Not at all my service.How did you get this impression I’m shilling them?
Something like reverse psychology?
I bought the contracts.

I would completely agree here. Its proven many times through mining history that cloud mining is most likely scam. Cloud mining will not be profitable, even if the cloud mining is legit. People who are in cryptocurrency should do research before thinking of investing. I would vote for holding physical machines in some professional facility. Of course, check the facility in person if you can.