Bitcoin Forum

i think this is a good way to describe Bitcoin to the world.

I asked my father -- who is behind me -- what he thought of this:

"Sounds Un-American, son."

there is no doubt that Americans benefit from USD hegemony being the reserve currency of the world.  what about everyone else?

Too many big words for the average American. ;)

the "System" could be overlayed with a variety of industries such as online poker  (http://www.pokernewsreport.com/online-poker-in-us-possible-in-12-14-months-5830)

i know this is obvious but describing these concepts to the avg person needs to be framed appropriately to enhance understanding.

Why not an "Independent Financial System"?

"Sovereign Money"

to me the words "Self Contained" and "System" conveys compactness, tightness, and modularity.  my teenagers can be very independent but not always in a good way.

Sovereign can be a large negative depending on who you ask.

Self Contained is wordy and inaccurate.

No financial system is self contained and Bitcoin is no exception.  Many people wouldn't want to accept or buy Bitcoins if they were self contained.

It is as true as: 'Schizophrenic: "A Self-Contained Human Being"'.

One thing that Bitcoin has in common with schizophrenia: seems like nobody had analyzed the implication that the currency exchangers have two streams of income: one in bitcoin and one in fiat. They can use one to cross-subsidize transaction fees in the other.

The whole "mining pools" as a business entities are the proverbial giants on clay legs.

I'm thinking of the future will bring the interesting battles between terahash dinosaurs and the little mice that can survive by scratching both sides of the coins.

i am thinking about it in the context of an industry like the casinos using Bitcoin to trade like poker chips.  of course ppl would eventually like to get their USD's out of the "system".

but as the economy grows hopefully to the point of independence then indeed Bitcoin would be self contained.

It could be a way to describe it yes, but there is alot to be done till this term would be accurate enough to describe it.
The necessity to rely on fiat money to give it purchasing power needs to go away first.


In the mean time I would say it's  "A potential Self-Contained Financial System"  :)

{
autonomous;
communal;
egalitarian;
self-governing;
unconstrained;
}


My money; Our Bitcoin. 

Good. Because so is bitcoin.


As for "selfcontained".. I dont think that describes bitcoin. a financial system that is "selfcontained" isnt one.  Meh, well, okay, maybe its not that bad as a description for now lol.

American was founded with principals.  freedom and democracy... "The American Dream"...  bitcoin seeks to revive these lost principals, and freedoms.

the central bank is Un-American, the founding fathers said so... and they fought real hard to no be subject to the central bank.

tell your dad to watch this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ)

I think that was supposed to be a sarcastic wink, not a real statement...

I think "A secure, decentralized payment system" would be a better way to describe it so the average person (1) understands what it is, and (2) isn't scared off thinking it's some type of subversive, anarchistic movement.

allright

I like that.  Kinda embodies the concept of I am responsible and in control of my funds.  We collectively support the network.  Nice one.

You mind if I use that? :)

Feel free.  :)

it just seems to me that the most likely candidates to resonate with a description such as this would be self contained ecosystems like communities, industries, or nations.  surely these entities don't operate in a vacuum and do interface with the rest of the world but certainly Bitcoin could facilitate trade within them.

I don't know what country you are in, but in the USA only Congress is legally able to issue money. I would be careful calling Bitcoin money in America. As a foreign currency, it seems to be acceptable for now.

Yes, and if you for example use EURO you go to jail ::)

Seriously... wtf

Hi, i'm European.

I was thinking Canadian. I get coins in my change all the time. I suppose I should call the Secret Service?

100% not true.

What's not true, Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution or that some stores accept Bitcoin? Or maybe you're one of those that refuses to call Bitcoin a currency.

It is not illegal to use private currency in the United States.  There are couple dozen private currencies and some have existed for decades.

The Constitution gives Congress the AUTHORITY to print and regulate currency but doesn't explicitly prohibit alternative currencies.  There is no federal statute that prohibits private currencies in the US.

OK, so maybe it was 25% not true then.  I did say that Bitcoin is acceptable as a currency in the US. As far as how the Constitution has been interpreted, you might want to ask Bernard von NotHaus.

Counterfitting and fraud are illegal.  Like I said there are many private currencies in the United States some have existed for decades.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/Berkshares.jpg

Berkshares have been in circulation since 2006 - about 2.2 million have been issued.

http://ithacahours.info/HoursInUseImages/hands_hours_original.JPG

Ithicahours have been in circulation since 1991.

Sure, coupons have always been around. Like S&H Green Stamps. Now we're splitting hairs. After all, money is a reification. We're talking about legal interpretations. That's what I love about Bitcoin. It challenges all the conventions about who's imaginary value is better.

Those aren't coupons anymore than Bitcoins or Gold is a coupon.


Exactly and your legal interpretation is invalid.

Comparing Bitcoin to Berkshares and Ithicahours is ridiculous. Bitcoin is global, not local.

D&T is correct. I misunderstood some rulings earlier and dug deeper, and he is 100% correct.
However, what you can not do, is call something legal tender. You can create your own money, afaik you can call it money, it just has no legal basis to settle debts. IOW, you bucher doesnt have to accept bitcoins. He has to accept dollars, or euro's or whatever the legal tender were you live. If you live in the US, he doesnt have to accept euro's either, as its not legal tender there. Same as bitcoins. Think of bitcoins as a foreign currency. No legal basis, but therefore not illegal.

How about "A Self Contained Financial Platform" upon which communities, industries, and nations can build?

Which has no distinction under the law.  Please provide the cite for the statute which says a national or global private currency is illegal but a local one is illegal.  Also there is limit on where a Berkshare can be accepted anymore than there is a limit on where Bitcoin can be accepted.

A hint .. you made a completely false and easily verifiable claim.  Stop digging you just make yourself more and more foolish.

Huh? Your asking the wrong guy. Ask the guys in prison for creating illegal currencies. Your strawman claim that I made a distinction between local and foreign currencies based on legality is false. Fact is, I consider your 'local currencies' just like coupon books.

The guy in jail is in jail because he committed FRAUD and COUNTERFITTING.  Private currencies are legal in the United States under existing law.  What you "consider" isn't worth a golden terd

Here is a photo of the "Liberty Dollar"
http://www.howtovanish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Liberty-Dollars-multiple.jpg

The case had nothing to do with the legality of private currencies and everything to do with fraud and counter-fitting.

Since you appear to just troll for the sake of trolling ... welcome to ignore.

Heh, strawmen 4TL. Selling coupons for an hour at Wally World isn't worth beans in Poughkeepsie.

Ask him if he thinks Abraham Lincoln's greenbacks were unamerican? They didn't rely on a federal reserve and worked fine!

Abraham Lincoln is Un-American. He violated the constitution more than any other president.

We digress, well I'm not american and I guess my knowledge of american history is not very good but I'm really surprised you say that. I had an impression of him as quite nationalist and with great respect for ths original constitution.


Anyway here's my two satoshi on the caption I prefer  "A self governing currency system"  to a self contained financial system

Paradox.