Bitcoin Forum

bank questions for the source of income
i told them it from selling crypto and masternodes
they say it is illegal
so how to trick them into believing that the source of income is legitimate?
they asked for screenshots

they are about to close the account

.........
bank does not approve of transactions related to cryptocurrency, as they carry the risk of generating income through illegal operations.

Please send us documentation which confirm what source of funds was invested to cryptocurrency and the statement from the platform where we can see that your funds were invested and then the cryptocurrency was sold out.

This is going to happen more and more often in my opinion. Money laundering and terrorism are the main problem for these banks.
If you have the proof that you bought it from an exchange, you are ok

It may take a few weeks or months but you will get your money.

is there a creative way to calm them down?
EU banks are going crazy over crypto :/
How to show them other sources of income?

A bank asking for screenshots?

I can't imagine that. A screenshot has no legal value. I can make any screenshot you want on Photoshop.

Which bank are you with, if you don't mind me asking? Would be nice to be aware of which banks tend to cause trouble with crypto.

AFAIK there's no country in the EU where trading crypto itself is illegal, so I guess their main concern is the source of income.

If you bought the coins on an exchange export your trade and transaction history and provide your bank with said file. If that's insufficient get in touch with the exchange and explain the situation. If it's a properly run exchange they'll have a bit of experience with what the banks require.

If the income is from mining / staking / running a masternode I guess provide them with screenshots of the mining pool / staking / node interface, ideally linking them to blockchain transactions that can be linked to the coins that you sold on the exchange. If all they ask is for screenshots that should be easily solved. If screenshots are insufficient I guess you'll have to report the mining / staking / masternode profits for income tax purposes (get in touch with a tax advisor, if in doubt) and tell your bank that you have filed your income tax report and are waiting for your local financial authorities to confirm. For your bank it can't get much more official than that, but obviously you might have to proof your source of income to your local financial authorities further down the road.

Note that while verifying income from mining / staking / running a masternode may be difficult for non-crypto-users it is not an illegal source of income in any EU member country (at least as far as I'm aware of) -- given that a proper income tax report has been reported (the nature of which varies wildly from EU country to EU country so you might want to get in touch a tax advisor).

Lol, they do :P

That's what I told my bank too :P It shows banks are dinosaurs when it comes to technology.

Think of it this way: the bank wants to comply with regulation, and wants to spend as little time on this as possible. If it's too much work, they'll prefer to just close your account.
My suggestion is to give them evidence that can easily prove your funds have no criminal origin, so they can close your case.

Can you please mention your country?

I am sure that more and more people will start receiving such notices because Banks are really worried about their business! Unless a government explicitly approves and legalizes cryptos!

Since you have already informed them that the earning is from  cryptocurrency, now you have to produce a proof that your investment was made from a legal source and also need to provide the statement of your exchange.  

We all know that, Four things never come back: the spoken word, the sped arrow, the past life, and the neglected opportunity! Yours is the first one!

There's only a tiny number of countries in the world where trading and selling crypto is illegal. Unless you're in one of them they're talking out of their arse. They're fully within their rights to shut you down just because they don't like the idea but it being illegal is not the case almost everywhere.

They may not like it but there's no way they can say it's 'illegal'. If you can point to your buys and wallet movements then there's no question of anything not being above board.

seb group estonia
lithuanian bank shaulai
immediately closed account
once they saw payward ltd

LHV bank in Estonia works with Coinbase and have continually made positive noises about Bitcoin. It is often the case that a bank will work with someone like Coinbase and reject private customers but it's worth asking at least.

Curious as to which bank you are talking about. Granted they might over time but right now they aren't fully observing movements of money related to bitcoin. I know ciphertrace is a cyber security company who is trying to take more reigns on this pressing issue by putting AML compliance technology in place for exchanges.

I do not think that what they mean by this is that bitcoin transactions are illegal per se, but rather the fact that their own bank policies dictate that they will not deal with crypto-related transactions due to the fact that they are assumed to be "high risk". Which is completely bogus, but it's what they're saying.

I personally think just being honest will yield you the best results, if you really want to continue to bank with them. Just state your source of income which you got the funds to invest into the crypto, and provide the necessary screenshots.

But to be honest, I would just go and bank with another institution, because of how draconian this one's policies are. Especially if you are planning on dealing with crypto transactions in the future, just switching banks will probably save you a ton of hassle in the future while preserving your privacy, for your own sake.

how about telling them you are doing IT business (=masternodes) and trading forex (crypto)
then as soon as they unblock your account, start moving your fund discreetly to the bank mentioned by gentlemand
if you don't mind me asking, how big transaction in/out of your account caused them to be alarmed and asked you such questions

The volume of transactions you are making usually are the catalyst for them to notice your account and apply a temporary ban to it unless you complied with what they are asking. Here in the Philippines, if you happened to trade with a daily volume of $2000 with a level 2 verification (they have it mostly the same on almost all exchanges I have worked with), they will need to ask you where does the funds come from and other KYC documents such as address etc. Personally I would avoid such service/exchange, but since they are the largest exchange here in the Philippines and they carry a huge volume with them, I'm forced to do what they say which sucks.

OP is European and his bank too. European banks have gone crazy for a decade now.

Last week I visited my banker he asked me so many things. I told him he's asking too much it's none of his business. He told me they have no choice since 2008-2009 but basically, he doesn't care but he needs to write something lol. He figured I have several payments from Payward as well, I told him I convert BTC to fiat. He just replied: Nice, diversity is good. ;D

Another bank I asked to increase my ATM withdraws limit for 30 days and to my surprise, I needed to provide a reason, I replied it was my budget for prostitutes, 24 hours later the request was accepted <3

Weird. In the UK, which I presume has to abide by very similar rules, I was asked my very first ever source of funds thing a month or so ago. I was in the middle of paying for a car so I wrote a load of shit, or nothing at all, can't remember.

Previous to that I've put tens of thousands of pounds through accounts that were dormant for years and they've never said anything. I have no identifiable source of income or anything else whatsoever.

Actually bank requires proof of source of the money you are depositing or transferring if it exceeds certain amount even in fiat and not just in cryptocurrency. When I deposited $1000 in my account they immediately ask for any document that will prove where did I get the money. It’s sad with cryptocurrency and we know they are going to be more and more tight when making transactions with it. Banks suck, i wish there could be ways where bank will not be needed at all.

Banks do abide with regulation,so its just normal for them to ask on where's the origin of those funds between incoming or outgoing.
This isnt only limited to crypto alone but on all sorts of Fiat tx too.If there are activities that do triggers out their alarm ex. Unusual huge deposits
then you wont have any choice but to comply on whats being asked.For op,just provide evidence that those funds arent come from illegal.Its your only option to have.

I don't believe in what you have said even for a minute, I have never seen a banked ask questions when you are putting money inside your account. If they said "it's illegal" then you are not right here posting this concern now cause the bank has already reported you to the authorities to be arrested. Maybe you are just clouding your real question and made a made up problem with a bank rejecting your deposit. They never ask questions when you are putting money inside your account it's when you withdraw them that raise some concerns.

That's really profound, I've never heard that saying before. Good one to remember.

As I understan from the video the sourse of your funds is cryptocurrency? SEB Group does not approve of transactions related to cryptocurrency, as they carry the risk of generating income through illegal operations.

Please send us documentation which confirm what source of funds was invested to cryptocurrency and the statement from the platform where we can see that your funds were invested and then the cryptocurrency was sold out.

 

Also please describe what is the reason that the funs must be tranferred through your accounts in different countries?

 

 

With kind regards

Dear customer,

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

We aim at providing professional service to our customers, while complying with the requirements arising from law. The credit institutions acting in Estonia have an obligation to regularly monitor the transactions performed by their customers and if necessary, verify the origin of the assets used in the transaction. The credit institutions are also obliged to possess thorough information on the field of activity and business of the customer.

 

Accordingly, we need to understand what is the source of funds which are coming to your SEB account. Please present us relevant documents about cryptocurrency investment and explain in the details how the money moves between your accounts.


Thank you for your letter.

 

If it is possible, AS SEB Pank would not like to see the transactions on its clients account to be directly or indirectly associated with cryptocurrency.

Show quoted text

Not necessarily if you think about it. If that would have been the case they would not even have asked you the question. They would have decided to close your bank account, and they would have asked you for another account to pay you back what was left on your account.
While in the letter they ask you for proof of origin. You should give them by explaining as you said, specifying that all verifications have been made to the trading platform, and you also give screenshots or other of your deposits/trade/cashout.
We have something similar in my country. And usually, it's when you handle large amounts of money in a short period of time (ie. 5000€/30days)

You're not located in the country?

A swedish bank :D Yea, nothing new, they are focusing on the mosquito on their left leg and not noticing the snake on the right one. Sweden is getting fucked in the ass by migrants and their socialist laws but trying to stop people from trading cryptocurrencies. Is it supposed to increase their tax collectibility somehow?

Most of us can't prove the source of funds. For instance, I have some income from a signature campaign. Try explaining to a bank clerk what a sig campaign is and proving that the funds come from there. Wait, it gets better! Try explaining to him that your income comes from claiming bitcoin forks, or that you claimed a faucet in 2012 and it happened to be worth 10k EUR now.

At some point I may have to do this. I can point to registration threads and standalone pages for most of it and the relevant address and the movements through it.

People make money from some very, very weird sources all the time so it's not insurmountable.

anyhow
never ever tell them that your source is related to crypto
they are going apeshit then
invent any understandable source of income and show it to them

In this day and age any large amount of money is regarded as suspect. They will want some sort of paper trail no matter where it's from. If you invent a flat out lie with nothing to back it up that's not going to end well.

explain it to them in a term they can understand or familiar with

you can start by telling them your line of work can be classified into marketing
to be specific, you are doing an online advertising in a discussion forum

claiming forks ~= special dividents from your investments
small faucet amount turned into hefty value ~= cashing out long term investment, capital gain

We will all have to, unless BTC acceptance goes through the roof allowing us to skip cash and get our target goods directly. Unfortunately when it comes to expensive goods like cars there will still be questions.



Fine, I agree it can be explained, but will they accept it? This is what I'm afraid of:


The currently made laws regarding crypto investments, KYC, and such, are quickly going towards outlawing many popular ways of making money in the space. Since we don't have any paperwork a normal employer would issue and simple faucets or signature payments can grow to enormous numbers in the next few years. How will we prove this little forum advertising wasn't just a cover up for drug trading on deep web?

Internet sales are one way to explain income.
Internet IT services are a way to explain mining income.

But if you are moving 10000 usd or 5000 euro each time and doing this 10 times a month. It will generate a lot of questions in most countries.

USA 10000 USD moves attract attention.

Europe 5000 euro moves attract attention.

Or four or five 9600 usd moves in a few days

Or four or five 4800 euro moves in a few days.

My USA bank will not let me deposit cash to my own accounts in person.

Unless I show I.D.

And that would be as Little as 10 usd or 100 usd or 1000 usd or 5000 usd.

I am sure they would want my I.d. If I made a deposit larger then 10000usd but I never had that much to put in cash.

Because the chances are you can point to the thread where you signed up for the sig campaign that will likely have your wallet address. If it's a third party site that handles the sign up process then screen shot it in case it disappears. Then you can point to your wallet address with every single payment arriving preserved for all eternity in the blockchain.

Many campaigns also have vanity addresses that identify their origin. Keep all your old private keys. Makes notes of what you signed up for.

There is literally no better proof possible. It couldn't be simpler. Just because you've wound up with a large amount of money in no way makes it 'wrong'.

If I'd spent $500 on 100,000 BTC back in the day and had a bank statement and wallet movements to prove it there is no nefariousness involved despite the ability to buy the entire bank.

If Bitcoin is legal in your country then Banks shall not question about crypto currency as source of your income but then let them close your account and find a new bank that are crypto friendly by trying to check your local exchanges about their local banks partnership list in which you can claim your cash from crypto but do not choose banks that are not in partnership of the exchanges again as for sure you will be in difficult to open account with crypto related fund. .

there are banks that are not yet crypto friendly even if crypto is not restricted on your country and they will ask the source of your income but you can make an alibi or a lie , you can say that your funds came from a different source away from cryptos  .

 i think they wouldnt know it if your lying  . but there is no need for banks if your goal is to cash out only because there are way too many local exchangers and money remitances center that accepts crypto to fiat or fiat to crypto service  .

It doesn't make sense. So you receive several payments from a crypto exchange and you want to tell to your banker the funds don't come from cryptocurrencies? Bankers aren't so dead mentally, they will check even before asking you.
Better to say the truth, it works better and we aren't managing $xxx,xxx with a complex scheme for taxes evasion.

They arent really that dumb for them not able or being blinded and you are right which even if they didnt still ask they already making adnvance check up or followed the trail on wheres those funds came from. Lying will just make things worst if got caught.

I can relate except the masternodes and that is very unfortunate. Most of the big banks here in my country are very strict when you try to open an account. My other fellow traders told me that just told the bank staff that you have homebased job so they won't make many questions. But in this year, there are 2-3 banks trying to have a discussion of having the possibility of accepting crypto so I think your bank's view will change too.

What is the country of the bank?

It should not be illegal to buy and sell cryptos in general. At this point you can not trick them in thinking that it is something else.
And if you are true , that the income is from exactly that, then the only thing you can do to preserve your bank account is to give them the screens which should not be  that hard.

did you provide the screenshots of the said funds being used for the purpose mentioned  ;D
and  + 1 to the european banks gone crazy , I think there is a random yes/no generator as in regards to the accounts that use cryptocurrency
but I'm sure it depends on the banker , some of them are more flexible than the others and do not rush to comply with the rather vague instructions
the vast majority of the clerks who nag you for screenshots or the source of income  are doing this to avoid any potential problems since crypto is in the grey area and they themselves are checked from time to time

Although EU has a lot of common rules and laws, it is very wrong to put all the banks of Eu in one basket.
The banking sector still is very different across the EU, some countries are stricter some less. And even in between one countries banks, there are a lot of differences. There could be one bank which are researching crypto and have understanding of it, but others will completley ban anything related to it. just to be sure that they won get a huge fine from regulators, because in the end bank is the one which pay it.