Bitcoin Forum

Perhaps it’s the absolute slaughter of altcoins. But I feel like we were all blinded in 2017. I have 20,000 Cardano, and all I see it do is lose Satoshi value. I feel like I’ve had enough!!

I mean seriously. What is Cardano? It does nothing. Nobody uses it. It’s one of about a dozen protocols that will probably never be used and never be wanted.

I’m 85% bitcoin. I’m about to make that 100%. Everyone loves Cardano...really? Why! It’s just another shitcoin. They are all shitcoins!!

Majority of the "investors" are  just invested and interested in most altcoins simply because they think they missed out in bitcoin gains, so they hope certain altcoins will have the same price increase multipliers in the future. That's simply why there's so much speculation even though most coins doesn't even do anything decent or special. And to add to that, altcoins holders are waiting for the so called "alt season" lol.

In Cardano's case, people might be hoping that Cardano would be a good competitor to ETH due to Charles Hoskinson being one of the founders of Ethereum(afaik); and people sure like coins with low total supply because they can get a hold of a good number of it. Definitely a lot of unit bias there.

Short Sighted on your part,

Altcoins or shitcoins whatever you want to call them,

Many have
higher transaction capacity
greater speed
energy efficiency
fixed fees which are more cost effective than LN Hubs

so they actually can be used as a currency, while btc is nothing more than a hodl and sell at peak coin,
unsuitable for daily transactions due to excessive fees.

Can you make money off of BTC, sure.
Can you make money off of Alts , sure.

You just have to tailor your trading according to market conditions.

Blood in the Streets , and coin has strong fundamentals and low inflation, Time to buy
Everyone Buying , and every stranger recommend buying, Time to sell.

Good Luck in whatever your choice.
 

Sure. In exchange of what? Significantly far less security and decentralization, which is one of the most important characteristics of a cryptocurrency.

Good luck getting people to accept them.

You can say the same for the altcoins. People are speculating on it simply because it could potentially be worth a lot more in the future, and there's really nothing bad about that.

If you actually use bitcoin, you know that that's statement is ultimately false. A very common statement from people who doesn't really use bitcoin. I'd bet you got that criticism from shitcoiners on Reddit.

Maybe he got wrecked on paying up high fees on that 2017 bull run. What you think?  ;) on where he do already make conclusion that bitcoin isnt suitable for that field but
look at the entire market.Its been dominating for 10 years and counting but people do still question on BTC capacity?

project with billions of coins is huge red flag to stay away, yet most of the people fall for this scams.

if a project have  billions of coins without even look in the source code and other shit you must stay away, yet some people learn the hard way, and some never.


projects with billions of coins all of them are scams,

I personally also hold a bunch of what the market has identified as 'shit coins' and thought trading them all for BITCOIN as well.
The main reason I havent done so yet is because when I do the math, I have spent many BITCOINS to purchase these 'shit coins' and cant come to terms with myself to take such a big loss  :-\
I would rather HODL on for better times when these coins will increase in value but I agree with you that coins like Cardano do literally nothing but fall in value

Agreed. But everyone LOVES Cardano. What a great project! It’s peer reviewed. Charles Hoskins is a genius. Blah blah blah.

How about...Cardano is going to change our LIVES by enabling X Y Z? No, that’s not a thing.

Let’s get real. Cardano is just another shitcoin. It’s a well received shitocin. But it’s a shitcoin.

there is levels of shitcoins which mean ...

if you have small supply coin/shitcoin at last it can grow in price fast!

then you have huge supply coins/shitcoin which never will grow in price because the supply is to much and the project basically scam.

caradano forum also scam people that the supply dosent matter and the price will spike and it cannot happen with billions of coins supply!

so if you invest in shit coins at last look the supply is low ::)

I am starting to believe that alt run&crash in 2017-2019 was the Dot.com bubble happened in 2000's.

There were many tech companies being shilled on Wall Street at that time just like how people shilled for shitcoins/ICO's in 2017.

Only the strongest survived the crash in 2000's. Just like it is happening now.

*%99.2 btc here.

it sounds like the market convinced you---by taking your money.

i don't believe any altcoins hold a candle to BTC, and i don't know anything about cardano, but there is some interesting work being done with privacy and smart contracts/DEX.

the thing about altcoin/BTC markets is they realize almost all their gains at the end of a bull run, in the last throws of the bubble. ADA may be crap but it will bubble at that time with the best of them.

stay away from huge supply projects with billions of coins OR  LEARN THE HARD WAY ;D

this is why bitcoin came 0ut with 21 million coins!

simple equation to know why and somehow people years in this industry and still dont know this simple fact ???

Tone Vays is a bitcoin maximalist. I would not listen to any investment advice from him. I reckon his partiality fogs his judgement.

In any case, how far the sentiment today is from 2017 hehehe. However, if altcoins begin pumping, are we going to be altcoin maximalists again?

Not all altcoins are shit coins

One of them will replace bitcoin someday better yet, replace fiat.

I will bet my life on it.

You have to be a closed minded fool to think just because it is not bitcoin it is shit, fucking fool and a tool.

You will be one of the morons driving a fred flint stone car, while others have learned to use engines instead of their feet.

Bitcoin Maximalist
https://workbench-media-sphero-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/cwist/cwists/03/0c/fred%20flintstone_500_500.png

Me embracing all crypto, some call me a shit coiner.
https://sourceable.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/flying-car.jpg

altcoins in my view are two categories:
1) the hot ones on top
these are big coins like the top market cap coins and sometimes even small ones. they are completely useless coins that are only hyped up by their owners to be pumped and dumped. they are excellent for making short term profit if you are a day trader and familiar with the altcoin market. you should never bag hold any of them

2) the technologically interesting ones
these are rarely among the top coins and i have not seen any see any major pumps. they usually don't see any interest because they are being overshadowed by those big pumping coins and sometimes because they have some additional issues. they aren't good for investing but they are good to see the blockchain technology used in a different way.

I've made some good profits with alts in the past and turned them into more BTC, and even though today alts are only a few percents of my portfolio, I regret holding them, especially in the light of me always being critical of altcoins starting from more than 1 year ago. I saw it coming - people realizing that altcoins = shitcoins, and still I hodled some, just in case they will rise.

Fiats or other crypto, their choice.
You think hashrate and energy waste secure the coin ,
and ignore the 4 pool operators behind the curtain that can 51% attack at a moment notice,
due to that criteria , any alt with more than 4 main holders is more secure than bitcoin.
Let that burn into your brain, Hashate and energy waste are useless in securing a coin,
when the miners give a mere 4 pool operators over 51% control on a daily basis.



And you be wrong again, in the rare instance when forced to use bitcoin in my dealings.
I always check the transaction log, to see how slow it will be this week and postpone sending until unconfirms are below 15000.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/unconfirmed-transactions
And when forced to use Bitcoin, I ignore the fee and pay the highest , which many others can not.
Otherwise I use litecoin or doge or ZEIT, as their speed and lower fees make them the more sensible economic choices.

If you actually used bitcoin to pay, you notice it takes so fucking long ,
that many time the merchant acceptance timer for the agreed upon number of bitcoin comes close to running out.
But since you only buy and hold , you don't know shit.

Because it'd make complete sense for 4 pools to 51% attack the network that's pretty much their businesses' main source of income right? And goodluck getting them to cooperate. Even CZ of Binance couldn't attempt to convince them even with money in offer.

Also, mining pools =/= miners.

And lastly, before you say that mining is centralized: https://i.imgur.com/Ec7vVGq.png

If you're stupid enough to unnecessarily pay for a high fee, then you do you. Also, whatever that ZEIT thing is.

If you actually use bitcoin, you notice that it's not actually long, if you pay a decent fee, which is really not that much but a few cents.

Each and every altcoin has a different usage behind it.
Cardano is used equally as Bitcoin is used now. The difference is that more people hodl Bitcoin instead of Cardano.
If you don't like it sell it. But you probably bought this alt due to the hype and you thought that you are going to be millionaire. It seems you know nothing about Cardano's vision.

PS. I am not a Cardano hodler...

It's always been Bitcoin/Shitcoin but that doesn't preclude making vast amounts of money from them.

The key is always remaining aware of what they truly are and not falling in love with them. If you can treat them completely unemotionally then you'll do well.

Mr Vays is as emotional about them as the most brain dead XRP shill. Both have let gains pass them by because of it.

I'm dead curious to see what the next alt bubble looks like. It certainly won't resemble the last one but there definitely will be a type of one.

You couldn't generalize, ETH for example, it's a solid altcoin, with fundamentals and real world usage
XMR is another example
And you can add some coins, but it's up to you to find what coins have future and worth you money

You know nothing on this matter, Pay Mega with your slow bitcoin , and you see what I am talking about.

The nature of the coin doesn't really matter, though solid is obviously better than shit.

The only thing that decides its value is the zombies pumping or dumping it. Most won't know or care how 'good' something is. They're the ones who make or break it, not the developers.

Innovative coins like Peercoin are now dead as a door nail purely because the excitement ran off elsewhere.

When I started there were only a few Alt coins to chose from like LiteCoin and DogeCoin …. but everyone knew none of them will ever be the next Bitcoin. This belief become stronger as we went through a plethora of Alt coins being added over the years and also several "hostile" takeover attempts with all these forked coins.

In future things might change and some other coin might get massive support from governments and Banks or some huge social media platform like Facebook, but it will never be the same if they are centralized and controlled by a single entity. Bitcoin will always be the "People's Coin"  ;)  

I think in a long term, this pump and dumping doesn't matter
With solid coins you have institutional money into, not only money of people
Again I will repeat, you could not generalize

Tone Vays does seem to be the few of the crypto OG holders which seem to know what he is talking about.
And yeah. I dont think a lot of people want to hold cardano.
It doesnt have a mainstream use case for anyone to hold on to it for the long term unfortunately. :-[

The Bitcoin and shitcoins thinking has been around since the early stages but gained popularity especially during the current bullish market. Indeed, unlike in 2017, Bitcoin's success is currently not associated with the growth of altcoin market at all, and BTC dominance is very high.
But I still believe that some coins deserve attention. IOTA with DAG is still not appreciated enough, and Ethereum's smart contracts are important, even though kit particularly user-friendly yet. As for the majority of the market - yeah, it's just trash.

FTFY,

Most people can't afford $100 per transaction fees that onchain bitcoin is headed toward.
Very few , even in the US can afford ½ bitcoin, and forget the majority of the rest of the world.
Bitcoin costs too much for the average man to mess with, that ship sailed years ago.

Hey, 100 USD fees for transaction?
This is not true
I use alts to transfer money, but BTC is evolving, with lightning network and future technologies, we won't spend 100 USD per transaction

I don’t think that this particular altcoin is worthless. How would you not want it, but the Cardano is a unique coin. Which by the way is in 12th place on the CMC.Yes, of course, it is better to store more assets in bitcoin,but promising altcoins will not be superfluous in your portfolio.

I agree with this. Mainstream use case is really needed for an altcoin to grow its value. So in what applications are Cardano used so far? Honestly, I have never used cardano in my altcoin transactions. I wonder how many crypto users are religiously using cardano?

Because who the heck would pay for $100 transactions unnecessarily if you could pay just a few cents?

Just for your information, Bitcoin is highly divisible that you can even own $1 worth of a bitcoin. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Many people don't buy gold , because if they can't afford an ounce all that is left is a gram.
Have you ever seen how pathetic a gram of gold looks, no bigger than a postage stamp.
Owning a few satoshis is just as pathetic and many won't waste time on it, if they can't buy at least a half.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/mining-asic-giant-bitmain-lost-625-million-expects-profits-in-april
When the main ASICS company is losing money and only hope to stay afloat is more venture capital fiat ,
it kind of show bitcoin is not the dream, many aspire it to be.
Keep thinking bitcoin has no problems, time is coming where that is going to bite people hard.

Many people don't buy gold simply because many people don't even know the importance of a SoV, not to mention majority don't even put their money in other assets in the first place.

Also, most people who buy gold don't even physically own the gold. They have ownership, but they let the vaults hold it for them. It has nothing to do with how a gram of gold looks.

Who says Bitcoin doesn't have problems in the first place? It's far from perfect, hence there's a lot of people working on it and trying to improve it.

Ownership of gold certificate is for fools,
if you don't physically have it, you don't have it, more useless paper.

Smart people hold gold, and a gram of gold sucks , because it is so small.
Just as smart people hold private keys and don't leave everything on an exchange where they don't really own it.


People are working on LN, they gave up on onchain bitcoin, when they left the onchain transaction capacity in the shitter for offchain banking.

it is not just Cardano, but all the other altcoins too. none of them are used anywhere for anything other than on exchanges and for trading. that is why the developers have been focusing on coins/tokens for trading purposes only for the past 2 years and the ICO market has been so heated in 2017 because it was purely a gambling game where people tried to make profit.

Know what? In 2017 I was seriously considering about investing in Cardano. Third generation cryptocurrencies were the craze back then. Cardano had risen in value by 100 times over a period of two or three months. Analysts were even predicting that it was going to replace Bitcoin very soon. OK... now I made my decision to purchase Cardano. For that, first I needed to install the wallet. Now comes the fun part. There is no online wallet or lite wallet available for Cardano. If you want to store ADA, then you need to install the full wallet known as Daedalus, which takes several GB of your desk space. Another option was to store ADA in an exchange wallet. I thought about it for a while, before eventually giving up my plans.

Looking back now, I feel happy. I made the right decision by not investing in Cardano. It went down by 98% during 2018-19, and If I had invested in it, then I would have incurred heavy losses. The Cardano developers have gone AWOL. Users are still demanding a lite wallet, but the developers are busy enjoying their ill-gotten gains. BTW, I heard that now a lite wallet called Yoroi available for ADA. For me, it is too late.

so both of you don't think btc has a high transaction fee! tell me if you are buying anything worth $2 for example, how much you think will be transaction fee?

nobody questioning btc dominance but your ideology that only btc deserve to be in existence and other alts are shitcoins, if this is the case what is the point of decentralization, let btc be the one and only crypto in the world.

the one consistent thing about both 2013 and 2017 was the altcoin blow-off top in the last couple weeks of the bubble. if nothing else, i'm confident that will play out again. it's a natural late stage phenomenon where new "missed the boat" money starts chasing "the next bitcoin". as long as new money keeps coming into bitcoin, we'll see silly greed like this.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that you got blinded by the hype on the last quarter of 2017and now you are regretting for riding on it. Well, don't treat yourself like you are the one who lose because most of us did. Alt holders (I am not, I just stick to btc for some reason) out there experienced the same but look at them they are still continuing their business. Losing doesn't mean the end of the world, it is a new beginning for you to become a better investor.

Hmm, if you are just a long term hodler then you might be in a big trouble right now because we don't know when the market pumps once again. So if I were you I'll try daytrading knowi g that i have a huge number of Cardano.

Indeed.

It's the buildup I'm interested in - which coins will gain traction, what hook people will attempt to hang it on.

There are no ICOs this time around. Will 'cheaper' be enough? It probably will but everything's looking rather more ragged and transparently empty than last time around. There was plenty of material to delude yourself back in the day. Not so much any more.

with token markets becoming highly restricted and IEOs requiring full KYC, i'm thinking a resurgence of traditional POW and hybrid POW coins might be in order. altcoin bubbles are a retail investor affair.....retail investors love their shitcoin exchanges and lack of KYC. the strongest charts i can find are old, established coins like DASH and XMR. and i'm particularly looking at markets that are still open to american investors.

The slaughter in the altcoin market was expected as i have seen many projects going to dust even though they started with big promises and big teams and hence when the market rallied i sold off 80% of all my altcoins and i still consider myself lucky to make those decisions as all the assets i invested during that time came down drastically and many projects will never recover simply because of regulatory issues, it is a sad reality and if you sold the coins at the right time then you could probably made some profit. I am pro bitcoin from the beginning and the alt coin market was a quick rich scheme and the smart thing is to get out at the right moment. I consider dogecoin to be better than 99% of the coins in the altcoin market and i am sure everyone shares the same opinion.

To be fair, there are a few altcoins that genuinely look like they want to do something different, and to be fair, some of their ideas are pretty good too. But if we're all being objective, none of these things are amazing. After Bitcoin's introduction, no matter how simple it seems, everything else just seems so... small. No matter the super tech, if no one uses it like you says, what's the point?

Don't know Tone Vays, know the name, not his game but I think any serious person in crypto only really uses Bitcoin. I admit, I've got my fair share of altcoins... 10% of my total crypto portfolio isn't a small minority at all, and I do like the ones I hold for specific reasons (Monero is a clear-cut case, for example). But at the end of the day, when I'm using a coin, when I'm convincing someone else to accept payments in crypto... we're really only ever talking about Bitcoin.

That's not opinion... that's fact.

You described the situation with almost every alts. Just a projects without real use

That sort of nonsense gets repeated alot around here.

So let's clear it up.

Bitcoin
Payment to anyone that accepts bitcoin
Hold it to exchange for Fiat at a later date

Altcoins
Payment to anyone that accepts that Altcoin
Hold it to exchange for Fiat at a later date

What is it that you think real use entails that an Alt is not also capable of doing?

Alts are still capable of micro-payments and much lower transaction fees,
while bitcoin needs LN offchain network to accomplish the same.

Things Bitcoin Can't Do,
1. Energy Efficiently , which many alts have always had.
2. Onchain Transaction Capacity exceeding 2 million transactions per day, many alts capacity exceed that now
3. low fixed transaction fees, which can only be achieved by energy efficient Alts

I have always told everyone that I don’t see any point in creating altcoins for different projects and then all I hear is that they have different innovations and usage. Like you said, the innovation is to be used by who, by which country and how? Even if we have some people accepting these innovations, they can only get few of them, and these projects are just so too much in the market.

Value of a project only increases when people put money into the market, and what is that usually attract people to put money, it is either they put in money for investment purpose, or they put in money for Utility purpose. In 2017, it was just the cryptocurrency hype that generally made these coins witnessed such growth and not the utility really, for utility, I must tell you that Bitcoin and Ethereum is just more than enough.

I love Tone Vays. He is a strong apostle of bitcoin. Although he believes altcoins are shit. When he attacked Tpay, till date, Tpay has never been able to recover from the loss, was happy I sold off before the worst happened.