Bitcoin Forum

With the sudden 700+ Point plunge of the Dow Jones and China's sudden devaluation of the Yuan what are some aspects of interest do you have that might reflect upon the current and the future of the Digital Currency Market?

Maybe a global crisis is coming. Bitcoin never saw one.

Stock market drop may bring more money to cryptocurrency market, as it may be seen as a non correlate asset, which may work as a hedge against this crisis.

Pure especulation but it makes sense, and it may lead cryptocurrency holders to great profit.

I hope you're right but I have my doubts. A large part of the capital within the stock market can be categorized as risk capital, which I think also applies to Bitcoin from the perspective of an institution or legacy investor.

Gold will serve its purpose as safe haven much better than Bitcoin will simply because of how speculative this market still is. Bitcoin definitely needs more years of maturation to grow on people as being a non correlated asset.

We have gone up simultaneously with gold in the past, have gone up while gold went down, have gone down while gold went up, and so forth. I think the current correlation between Bitcoin and gold is just coincidence.

700 is not the big percentage it might have been in the past.  I dont consider it a great fall or especially disturbing.    A fall after a long period of rises is at least partly down to profit taking, it has to develop into a long trend and typically pass 20% to be of much concern.    FIAT having no fixed value is of concern mostly in countries unable to justify trade balance

Well, there was an expectation that with the stock market going down, and China's Yuan devaluation and the escalating trade wars between China and US, people might go and flock to crypto market to hedge their funds. Specially when the price of bitcoin suddenly went up in the last two weeks or so and trying to breach that $12k mental barrier. However, investors may have other options like precious metal. So we will see, if the price goes to $15 next month then it's possible that stock investors are shifting their funds to bitcoin as safe haven.

Well, experts, at least those who are open to Bitcoin, have considered these developments as generally positive for the crypto market. For one, we are not affected by all these, with the values of crypto or Bitcoin moving quite independently from these conventional markets. And since investors will have to find a place where they could safely park their investments during these turbulent times, Bitcoin or crypto must be on top of their list. 

Yeah, that will be a good solution to your money so you can invest in cryptocurrency and in the cryptocurrency, you can choose so many altcoins that will grow your money in another investment, and you can be able to make another money too. Soon, every people will open their eyes about the cryptocurrency, and they will realize that they can invest in cryptocurrency too besides of stock.

There are major impacts in the crypto markets, I believe! Also there are major impacts on the precious metals market like Gold and Silver.because we are seeing an economic slowdown since the beginning of 2019 and traditional investors are slowly moving their money into precious metals like Gold and Silver For example, look at the below chart,

https://i.imgur.com/L8Vyr1R.png

It shows the price of Gold per Kg since last 6 months and the trend is very clear. We will get similar kind of trend in the crypto market if we analyse because the mood for bitcoin and other cryptos are usually upward since 2019 beginning. But traditional investors will usually stay away from the crypto market because of the fluctuation in the price.

So the interest area for digital market is somewhat different when we compare it to the global slowdown or the devaluation of the currencies. In such scenario, people invest in gold because of capital protection. But at the same time, people invest in cryptos to make some aggressive profit who knows how to ride the tide! The same is happening here!

Aggressive investor + willingness to make some quick money amid global slowdown = Crypto investment flowing in

This has been discussed many times and since BTC was never active thru a global recession (it was actually created as a result of a recession) its hard to tell what will happen.

Yes you are correct that many will be buying Gold and they might also buy Bitcoin to hedge their money but keep in mind that generally in a recession people are risk-off. What risk-off means is that they buy stocks, indicies, which are a safe haven but produce low % rate of returns. So people might buy metals such as Gold and they might buy blue chip stocks instead of penny stocks. Bitcoin is considered a risk-on investment due to its volatility and might turn off most investors.

Especially since it took around a year for it to peak $20K and go down all the way to $3K. Many rather hold stocks thru a recession in that case.

New financical crisis is coming unfortunately. And all of us should be ready for it. I dont sure that crypto is the best variant it may be affected too

The answer is very simple.
What do you do when the stock market is crashing and fiat currency is devalued with every passing day. You will invest in something which is stable and constantly grwoing. Bitcoin is the best investment. Its time Chinese sell the stocks and sell their Yuan to grab the bitcoins.

It is bad times for stocks and fiat, but did you see any effect on Bitcoin price because of that? In my opinion the reason is very simple, people who lost money on stocks still consider Bitcoin a risky investment, and some of them just don't understand how Bitcoin is working, how and where to buy or how to keep it safe. Otherwise, they would not miss the opportunity to invest in something that is start 10 years ago, with no value at all, and today is worth over $10k per coin.

In time when we can read how Bitcoin is very risky investment, and that people should not invest in things like that - stock market is lost 1.4 trillion in just 4 days of trading which is 7 times more then Bitcoin market cap or 4 times more then whole cryptocurrency market cap.

So where does money end up in a time like this?

It has been coming for years now according to people. It's impossible to know beforehand how long it will take before the house of cards collapses. It could easily take another 5-10 years with all the stimulations going on. The thing that we do know is that the longer they buy time with low interest rates and easing, the harder the world economy will be hit when the crisis finally commences.

It's going to be an interesting stress test for Bitcoin because we can't confidently assert that Bitcoin will benefit when everything goes down at the same time. Gold might not provide any help either. It may sound weird and a bit contradicting, but I do believe that the us dollar will be one of the more in-demand assets because of our bills, daily spending, taxes, debts, etc.

I though deflation will occur on most of the countries due to price fall on USD value in the recent times and also they were printing more USD than actual rate which I read on an article on my local magazine.But 700 points is not huge to be considered as crisis this might due to some problem on China's economy surely it will get stable soon.

There is much evidence that the global financial crisis is possible, but currency fluctuations do not mean the flow of money to cryptocurrencies.
Many investments are still individual and the lack of organizational clarity makes institutional money unwilling to gamble on these future investments.
So the simple answer: Yes with very limited effect.

Make up your mind. Is a global economic crisis -- and this is generally reflected by both stock markets everywhere shedding points, plus currency devaluations -- bad or good for Bitcoin?

So funny to see analysts talk up the potential for Bitcoin when traditional vehicles fail, and then next to say that the negative sentiment is spilling over to digital assets.

Bitcoin was born from the ashes of a shattered global financial and banking system. I'm sure it could do with a few more batterings.

Even if crypto performs really good, I think the majority of the money will still go to gold. There is still no fundamental changes and gold is still being perceived as the safest investment out there. Real estate investment might give better returns but the barrier of entry is way too big. Most people would buy gold and then forget about it, no anxiety whatsoever.

It is really weird that whole world economy is going down all together these days, I mean financial world is trying to handle and not collapse all together but right now its really not looking good because one day eventually they will have to let go and then we will have a huge crisis.

I would totally understand if american economy is bad or Chinese economy is bad whatever but right now USA, Europe, Asia all are looking bad, middle east is the only one handling well because they have shit ton of oil and that allows them to make a ton of money and they use that money to invest into many things, even though things they invest into will not make a lot of money because of the crisis it is still a ton of money combined going into middle east which makes them the safest bet right now.

With the Dow managing to sustain a decade of good run in its hands without a single hint of a massive correction, I'm not even worried on what might happen in the stock market within the next few years or so. A lot of seasoned economists are saying that we are long overdue for a correction and we're heading towards a similar recession like the one that we had in 2008. I'd like to believe on that knowing that the derivatives market is insanely overvalued and needs to somewhat come down. Perhaps by then crypto would be a good hedge and investment when all comes down to the rabbit hole during the recession, and that is already expected by a lot of people bullish or not for crypto.

In the future we are Likely to see investors crossing over from stocks to digital currency. let's not push our luck yet the stock market  has history of plummeting and fast rising.
Currency devaluation comes in to service as a way countries check mate their economy to balance with the present time. But when it happens spontaneously then there is an economical hazard

I do agree with this your views, more funds are going to flow into cryptocurrency market as the momentary crisis between yen and USD/others currencies now exist. The stock market has been having bad days for more than three days now, it is a sign that the devaluation is having it deals on the world money and capital. China is a large economy and the interest rate cutting in the USA and the devaluation of yen can only move institutional and micro traders and investors to hedge their holding for bitcoin as I have decided to do now.

It is clear that Stock market performance are linked to a increase or decrease in the buying and selling of Crypto currencies. I think some of the investors and traders have a small portion of their portfolio invested in Crypto currencies and when the Stock market takes a dive, they just increase their investment in Crypto currencies to serve as a hedge against potential losses on the Stock market. <This is more informal (personal) trading and not institutional capital being used for this.>  ::)

A day will come when institutional capital would be allowed to be invested in Bitcoin and then we will see a much bigger price swing, when the Stock market gets a beating.  ;)

While I have no doubt that gold will perform well in the case of a crisis, the performance of bitcoin will depend on how big the crisis really is, if governments around the world begin to confiscate gold from their legitimate owners you can be sure that bitcoin will do really well since people will try to buy this currency that does not link your holdings to your identity and that you can carry with you all the time in a piece of paper or in the back of your mind.

Why would any elected government confiscate gold from their legitimate owners, even if the country is struggling economically they cannot force their citizens to hand over their investment in gold.
Even with gold investment the best form of investment is Sovereign Gold Bond rather than buying physical gold which is hard to secure and move.
stock market is tumbling because of the trade wars and we are seeing a price rise in gold because of that and bitcoin is a good investment as well.

Indeed the trade war between US and China has gave yuan was overwhelmed behind the incident but I don't have any idea to say that most stock investors (especially) will turn their money into cryptocurrencies. They won't take another risk to store their money into cryptocurrencies because the majority of some countries still remain same to ignore bitcoin in their country and that is an effect the investor still afraid to store their money on it.

Also, you have to know the negative news or some information that still revolve in some media when some newbies searching for an understanding how to invest in bitcoin because they will find first the negative experience from some investor who experienced a huge lost when investing in bitcoin. Moreover if we talk about the price movement of bitcoin, it feels they will be difficult to digest any price movements that occur. But, for those investors who know bitcoin before, I believe they will store a half of their money into bitcoin because there is some factors who will make bitcoin goes to increase especially in the next year.

But did you see any price increase of Bitcoin after stock market lost $1.4 trillion in only 4 days of trading? Only gold is recorded the highest level in the last 6 years, and we can see a possible connection here with stocks and gold market. Bitcoin is still big risk for stock traders, and we can safely say that they do not fully understand it, and in situation like this they always choose gold.

In case of institutional capital we'll probably have to wait approval of ETF, and it's still too early for that.

The most logical path would be that stocks will fail, they will fail spectaculary. They are overly valuated, as you pointed out there was a drop and it was because of FEDs rate policies. Stocks can not go up forever, money is not infinite  thing.

Then when they fail lets hope that some of the money will go in to cryptos !

Are market drop will affect crypto prices, guys? What do you think?

Same insights! People from stocks wont really consider out Bitcoin easily or do make it as an option or make is as a safe haven when theres crisis.

We cant conclude if such money will flow to cryptocurrency or would go into other option,this is why I don't expect too much for it to happen and also I don't see
any correlation among the two yet this is two different markets.

I guess considering companies in USA hasn't been making as much profits as they used to because of the trade wars going on it is only expected that it will go even worse. Maybe not right away because they are waiting for 2020 but if trump gets reelected (I give it a low chance but I gave it a low chance first time as well so who knows) then the companies will realize they are stuck with him for another 4 years and there is no point on postponing the bad results which will make DOW go down even more.

These companies are usually the ones that deal with china for manufacturing, even the biggest company in the world Apple who reached 1 trillion dollar valuation at some point can't really continue their operations with china without getting hit with some costs so it is gonna go worse and worse.

High exposure to trade wars is making investors afraid, not only in the US. They are completely in doubt and/or in panic for some. Did you notice how central banks and co. are trying to save funds through safe havens? It is not something new, it has been several months, but recently it has started to become more and more precise.

I don't want to mean the Apocalypse is around but a recession is becoming more and more possible. Look the interest rate cuts worldwide, Treasuries' performance so bad, ect


Some countries can and have their own law. The US tried before

I think that many investors are already doing that because we can see how fast bitcoin has grown to the extent of outgrowing the stock market based on the last data that is available to us, so I would not really be surprised if the stock market plunged lower than this now.

Digital currency such as bitcoin is really where many people are looking into right now, and it would have really grown more than what it is now if there was no issue of scamming in cryptocurrency, but scam has really discouraged some investors and has also withdrawn some of them from the market, otherwise, the way bitcoin was seriously growing from that 2017, if it had continued that was, maybe the government too would have even changes their reserve to bitcoin already.

While we might see some relationship and people drawing up some connection between fiat and crypto and the effect in whatever the outcome would be, I personally don't see the effect being that significant when the price of crypto was hovering around the $5kish fiat market and its supporters where mostly doing well and this temporary succour that managers of the economies are putting in place to ensure the effect on their own part is adequately taken care off does not have any say in what the market decides what will be the price of crypto.

I do not know about other countries but the US government made holding gold illegal during the 30's, look for executive order 6102, and it was not repealed until the 70's, so if it has happened before I do not see why it could not happen again, besides there are some people that speculate that governments around the world have been selling their gold to keep the price suppressed and if that is true then governments will have an even greater incentive to make holding gold illegal in the future since the fiat system cannot last forever.

Yes, it can affect the price of crypto especially if the stock investors shift to cryptocurrency and put their money on cryptomarket. Many speculation about the US Recession and it looks like many market will experience this one, so a wise investors will go now for bitcoin and save their money from losing. This is alarming already, the drop is not that small I hope cryptocurrency will be the safe haven for us.

Maybe? OH ITS COMING ALRIGHT. Its definitely coming. The entire planet is facing through a shitshow. Cannot even elaborate on how bad things are. Hong-kong protests, India-Pakistan fight for a state called Kashmir, US mass shootings(249 this year alone), Venezuela crisis, Zimbabwe crisis, the Brexit crap, the US student debt(trillions of dollars),global warming,etc etc. Like I don't even understand how people think they are gonna get through all of this, when they get offended when someone says fuck you in the face.

If things don't get taken care of as soon as possible, we are going to see a repeat of what happened in the early 2000s, but this time only a zillion fucking times worse. The markets are gonna crash, be it stock, crypto, real estate or any fucking investment based market. People are already fucking killing each other for slices of bread in the Africa and some parts of Europe-Asia. There is debt everywhere.

All of this is inter-related, the stock market drop, the devaluation of fiat, people are saving up money as when they can just so that they can avert the crisis when it knocks the door. People need to get this in their mind that they are gonna get fucked if they dont come together and deal with shit together.

This maybe unrelated, but I had to share. Governments are trying to profit from mass shootings!
https://i.redd.it/wou12tnbgfg31.jpg



Now we have Bitcoin. We can protect ourselves from this.
I believe this debt everywhere is the main problem. There is a global financial pyramid scheme, which always explode from time to time. But bitcoin is different.

My idea is to save some money now, so I can buy all cheap soon, when it all crashes. And do not sell many of my bitcoins, even if the whole stock market is with a huge discount.

Its less related to profit, and more related to how incapable they are of protecting their country from mass shootings. Like, Walmart removed all their video games that "condoned" violence, but they still had all theirs guns on their stores.

Bitcoin isn't going to protect ourselves from shit, maybe on a short term basis, maybe sure. That's definitely things work or intended to work.

The only thing that is going to protect us from another bubble burst->re-great Depression, is not repeating the same mistakes, figuring the shit out on how they countries and their people are going to get through if the Venezuela/Zimbabwe/Sudan eradication becomes a reality in their own country.

Funny, I just checked the gold & silver markets yesterday for the first time in a couple of months at least, and I was surprised that silver had hit $17/ounce and gold $1500/ounce.  It would seem to me that investors are starting to seek safe haven assets, but I'm not exactly sure what the reason for that is.  I also haven't been following the stock market lately and wasn't aware that there was a big dip.  I suppose that could have been the reason for the jump in metals, but I don't know what the timing was.

Has there ever been a correlation established between the stock market and crypto?  I've never read any data about that, but I suspect that crypto is a bit too young to be drawing any conclusions about it.  There's been a bull market in stocks for quite a few years now and during that time bitcoin has peaked and crashed twice.  Crypto is definitely not a safe haven asset, so I wouldn't expect there to be an inverse relationship--but I'm not sure there's a relationship at all.

The questions are, where is the money?
Why are they failing now? Why now?
Is crypto currency really affected that much?
What currency is getting stronger because of this falls that are happening?

Those are the questions that needs deep analysis before we could even get the answer.
Bitcoin is down, but not that deep yet. I guess we are really not that much affected. Or? Are they switching to bitcoin now and the value keeps on fighting because of that even with the fall of the stock market?

We can see the crypto market has been heavily influenced by the past few days, when the market is bloody. Bitcoin prices plummeted and alts fell by an average of 12% or more.
This is a very bad sign and the market needs time to stabilize.

You would think if the world economies start to falter that crypto as a whole would gain momentum. Not alot of people in my opinion want to invest in such volatile and sensitive markets. I believe that's why stocks, bonds, metals so on and so forth are such viable options for people that want to invest but given the last few days especially in the stock market, dropping some 800+ Points in one day of trading can make the most veteran of traders cringe and look for other options.

I think there is a big connection between people losing money in stocks or any other place and then moving to crypto, it is not as common as it should be but it is getting there slowly. After all we are in a world where people are greedy and they want to find a way to make more money.

Like I said there are people who are still moving their funds from legacy investment options like stocks or bonds and they are moving it to crypto because they see it as more income making and these people who were in stock market game are used to waiting so they can wait years until bitcoin worth something and they are not panic selling so they are the ones making the most amount of money. It is not going to be sudden but with time they will be the common holder in crypto in few years.

As per the most of the people views, bitcoin and gold will survive in this crisis phase but I think it is too early to be so much confident on bitcoin. Bitcoin is too much volatile and in such an economic crisis situation, it may further dump. I am not sure why people will invest in something which is too much volatile.

I think if everyday people knew and had more knowledge about crypto and other related investments they would be more apt to the idea of actual investing. I think alot of people are still hoping to make the whole get rich scheme happen again like that tremendous run in late 2017 and early 2018 and I think the market now has changed to where people need to work for it. I'm not saying crypto is the answer to all of the worlds financial problems but nobody wants to invest all their retirements etc etc only to wake up to see a nice chunk completely gone taken away by somebody telling you all this you worked for is completely worthless. If people had just a percent of the work ethic of those guys from Wolf of Wall Street I think it could be a big game changer for the whole market and maybe even the whole world.